WestJet Rewards - Poor westjetters in yellowknife

Waiting for my flight back from Yellowknife to Edmonton and it seems an inbound WJ flight merely ten minutes wasn't able to land and had to turn around (?). Air Canada flight inbound is still on schedule. Wierd.
All those westjetters are now scrambling to find a flight in the next couple of days.

Odd. If it was weather I would think both AC and WJ would be cancelled as they both left Edmonton for Yellowknife within five minutes and both were scheduled to turnaround in Yellowknife within minutes of one another.

Go figure!

AC cancelled the YYC flight this morning..and it looks they they considered cancelling the YEG one as well.. ah well!

AC cancelled the YYC flight this morning..and it looks they they considered cancelling the YEG one as well.. ah well!

What a load of &!*!.

Apparently WJ and AC inbound flights turned around pretty close to the airport due to apparent Icy conditions. Funny, I flew First air from Hay River to Yellowknife this morning on a dash whatever and they had zero problems. I even saw flights from Canadian North and First Air take off close to the cancellation times of AC and WJ.

Canadian North and First Air are still scheduled to fly out later today. Unfortunately they were sold out.

I had to rebook to Westjet at 1pm Tomorrow (Only thanks to being a government employee and I called our hotline). AC was booked solid all day tomorrow. So much for priority standby with Prestige Status.

AC/WJ Major fail, or they need to ice pilots for these up north routes.

To top it off I'm in a super 8 hotel now, *It's clean but not my usual standards*.

For my last TRIP of the year this entire trip has been a doozy from start to (aLmost) finish. Oh well.

This is a Pilot NOTAM (notice to airmen) for Yellowknife:

000000 CYZF YELLOWKNIFE
CYZF RSC 15/33 140 FT CL 70 PERCENT ICE 30 PERCENT LOOSE SN TR. 60 FT
CL SANDED. CHEMICAL E36 PRESENT. REMAINDER 100 PERCENT LOOSE SN 10INS
1012012005
CYZF CRFI 15/33 -17 .28 1012012005
CYZF RSC 09/27 100 FT CL 80 PERCENT ICE 20 PERCENT LOOSE SN 1/8 INS.
REMAINDER 60 PERCENT LOOSE SN 3 INS 40 PERCENT ICE 1012012005
CYZF CRFI 09/27 -17 .20 1012012005

Basically what it says, is the runway surface condition report (CRFI) shows a friction index of 0.28 and 0.20

Think of it as 0 is no traction and 100 is perfect traction.

The preferred runway(s) 15/33 would have a decent crosswind by the looks of it. The crosswind, combined with very low friction index, is an invitation for an accident for a large jet like those of AC / WJ. A Dash 8 handles quite differently in terms of landing speed and technique, and is also subject to less strict rules & regulations from Transport Canada in terms of required landing conditions.

While it may be hard now to appreciate the reason for the cancellation, believe me it was done in the interest of safety.

Trust me, you do not want the "ice pilots" mentality in an operation like AC or WJ.

Thank you prodrive for your detailed explanation. I am a flight attendant and I wanted to say something similar but don't have the techinical knowledge to back it up, so I'm glad you did it for me!

Fairly windy and cold today with snow overnight last night. That's a tough combination because with temperatures around -20 there's no real ice control that's overly effective...combine that with winds that require use of the short runway and we often run into these problems. Hopefully back to normal tomorrow.

Interesting. If that info was made available to Passengers then it would make sense.

Instead we're all wondering what the heck is going on and why is AC/WJ cancel ling and Canadian North still in normal operations.

I notice a AC flight from Vancouver arrived later this afternoon, so I assume the runway cleared up enough.!

Interesting. If that info was made available to Passengers then it would make sense.

Instead we're all wondering what the heck is going on and why is AC/WJ cancel ling and Canadian North still in normal operations.

I notice a AC flight from Vancouver arrived later this afternoon, so I assume the runway cleared up enough.!

If you want to risk your neck flying with an airline that puts schedule ahead of safety, I wish you well!

Do you really think either WJ aor AC pilots haven't got experience with -20 weather conditions?

:)

5T and 7F perhaps have pilots that are more comfortable in the marginal conditions and will operate down to the minimums. The 732s tend to be well equipped for the colder weather and harsher conditions...not sure how much difference there is (if any) for their minimums vs the 73G's or CRJ's.

Perhaps the AA 737 sliding off the runway in YUL last night made everyone a little more cautious today. YZF has a fairly short and narrow runway on a good day, when you reduce that to the short runway, you can't land or take off with a full load as I understand it...I learned this once when they only let half the plane go on Canadian North to Edmonton Xmas a few years ago. Luckily we were amonst those allowed on board.

If you want to risk your neck flying with an airline that puts schedule ahead of safety, I wish you well!

Do you really think either WJ aor AC pilots haven't got experience with -20 weather conditions?

:)

If this was any other trip any other time of the year, I probably would have chuckled and enjoyed the night in a hotel with take out.

Just tired of a long year of travel and this one last trip for the year was supposed to be easy. Live and learn and expect the unexpected!

I did notice the supershort runaway.

Oh well. Poor passengers that were mere minutes away from landing in Yellowknife!

I had changed the thread name from westjetters to "me"...because I'm AC Loyal, was on a AC flight and so was more relevant to that direction when I found out both AC and WJ were cancelled.

Unfortunately my title change didn't stick and it got bumped from the AC Forum.

Apologies to my WJ Ffers!

Mods it's an AC issue too now ! :)

Ah well.. lots of ice is a problem, but that's winter ops in the North. At least there aren't any cold weather problems right now.

Definitely feel for those that got turned back, it's very frustrating to almost make it to YZF and then get diverted south. Last year there was a flight from YVR that got turned around then diverted.. somehow ended up being 5 or 6 hours in a CRJ!

Interesting. If that info was made available to Passengers then it would make sense.

Instead we're all wondering what the heck is going on and why is AC/WJ cancel ling and Canadian North still in normal operations.

You're expectations need some adjusting IMHO if you expect all airlines to share hyper detailed weather reports with the flying public. Nobody would understand it unless it was deciphered and explained to them by qualified staff such as the flight crew which I'm sure has better things to do.

If airlines shared more info it would shut passengers up. I'd rather know techno babble then a simple "conditions were bad or runway was slippery".

If you want to risk your neck flying with an airline that puts schedule ahead of safety, I wish you well!



there is no proof that anyone is putting schedule ahead of safety. Different aircraft have different wind tolerances. Also if the cross wind had died down then you would not need as high a runway friction index which may have been the case when 5T and 7F operated.

If airlines shared more info it would shut passengers up. I'd rather know techno babble then a simple "conditions were bad or runway was slippery".

It wouldn't shut pax up and actually would have just the opposite effect and would create more questions about what the techno babble meant.

Of course I overlooked the fact that techno babble forecast is changing rapidly and seeking the pax approval each and every time it changes is a wholly unrealistic expectation.

YZF 15/33 runway length 7500', 09/27 5000'. Both capable of handling 737-200. 15/33 receives the occasional heavy.
SXM 7070' Capable of sending A340 & B747 n/s to europe.

I've seen WS divert from YYJ when the RFI gets to low.
YYJ 09/27 7000'.

YZF 15/33 runway length 7500', 09/27 5000'. Both capable of handling 737-200. 15/33 receives the occasional heavy.
SXM 7070' Capable of sending A340 & B747 n/s to europe.

I've seen WS divert from YYJ when the RFI gets to low.
YYJ 09/27 7000'.

That's exactly point...09/27 can handle the 732 in perfect conditions, otherwise the limitations pile up to the point it is very quickly unable to operate.

We do get the odd 767 diversion and 7F 767 cargo flight and I recall two 777's, one AA earlier this year for medical and a UA that came a few years back that needed an engine replaced at -40 outside because no hanger can handle it.

C-17s are regular visitors.