Practical Travel Safety Issues - Let's Get Real

Don't get me wrong. I feel the new patdowns are outragious, but let's face the facts here.

People were up in arms about removing shoes, 3.4oz. liquid bottles, standard patdowns, etc. And where are we today?? It's just normal proceedure.

In a year or so, these new scanners and proceedures will be common proceedure also. People forget too fast, and very few follow through with their beleifs. I'm willing to go all the way, but most will drop out as time goes by. The government knows this, and they're just giong to hunker down and ride out the storm. then it will be back to business as usual.

It's really sad, but that's the way it is.

My main concern is that I haven't heard of any TSA screeners opposing this proceedure. Kinda odd, isn't it?

Free Airport prostate exams in 2012??

Its easy to get frustrated and say that the sitaution is to hard to change, but that isn't the case. When Rush Limbaugh and Keith Olberman agree on something the story has legs and can go on for a long...long time.

JBC78

My main concern is that I haven't heard of any TSA screeners opposing this proceedure. Kinda odd, isn't it?

Here ya go. http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2010/11/18/tsa-enhanced-pat-downs-the-screeners-point-of-view/

Welcome to FlyerTalk, Houston.Business! :)


My main concern is that I haven't heard of any TSA screeners opposing this proceedure.

TSA Enhanced Pat Downs : The Screeners Point Of View (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2010/11/18/tsa-enhanced-pat-downs-the-screeners-point-of-view/)

Don't get me wrong. I feel the new patdowns are outragious, but let's face the facts here.

People were up in arms about removing shoes, 3.4oz. liquid bottles, standard patdowns, etc. And where are we today?? It's just normal proceedure.

In a year or so, these new scanners and proceedures will be common proceedure also. People forget too fast, and very few follow through with their beleifs. I'm willing to go all the way, but most will drop out as time goes by. The government knows this, and they're just giong to hunker down and ride out the storm. then it will be back to business as usual.

It's really sad, but that's the way it is.

My main concern is that I haven't heard of any TSA screeners opposing this proceedure. Kinda odd, isn't it?

Free Airport prostate exams in 2012??


So your solution is to just roll over, eh?

Don't fricken think so!

Here ya go. http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2010/11/18/tsa-enhanced-pat-downs-the-screeners-point-of-view/

Interesting, but.... Someone went to them and asked. Are any coming forward on their own? There are ways to state your opinion without losing your job.

This is my own personal observation, and yes, I will admit when I'm wrong.

Maybe the UPRISING of the Tea Party was just the first steps to AMERICANS really fighting back.

Let's face it, since the 1960's and 1970's the citizens of this country haven't taken a stance against anything.

The 1980's came around and no one started caring what happened in this country.

Now in the 21st century we just take it without even a blink.

I didn't agree with the Tea Party people and especially that nut job Allen West down here in Florida but at least he had the balls to go on TV today and say what we all have been saying on here about these "improvements" to airport security.

So your solution is to just roll over, eh?

Don't fricken think so!

Pleas re-read the post. I never stated that I would "roll over". I'm saying that most OTHERS will "roll over".

There's a vast difference in something that is simply a PITA, such as the liquids and shoes, and telling me that my daughter has a choice of some guy seeing her nude or her getting groped. If anything I think this one will continue to grow negative. The negatives of shoes and liquids was 100% apparent from the beginning, the public is only very slowly becoming aware of the negatives of the new procedures. I'd guess about 9 out of 10 people in security lines today believe:

that the images are very low resolution, not detailed, and not realistic
that they are being viewed by same gender only
that there is no way the guy viewing their cute daughter could snap a pic with his cell camera
and that there is 100% zero danger of harm from radiation

Reality:

The images are high resolution, very detailed, very realistic
The viewer is not gender specific and is most likely to be male
The only thing preventing him from snapping pics with his cell phone is the threat of being fired - if he gets caught.
Experts do not know if there is or is not harm from the radiation.

There's a vast difference in something that is simply a PITA, such as the liquids and shoes, and telling me that my daughter has a choice of some guy seeing her nude or her getting groped.

I couldn't agree more. But, my point is, let's see how many people will be backing us up as time goes by.

Pleas re-read the post. I never stated that I would "roll over". I'm saying that most OTHERS will "roll over".

Gotcha. So sorry.

There's a vast difference in something that is simply a PITA, such as the liquids and shoes, and telling me that my daughter has a choice of some guy seeing her nude or her getting groped. If anything I think this one will continue to grow negative. The negatives of shoes and liquids was 100% apparent from the beginning, the public is only very slowly becoming aware of the negatives of the new procedures. I'd guess about 9 out of 10 people in security lines today believe:

that the images are very low resolution, not detailed, and not realistic
that they are being viewed by same gender only
that there is no way the guy viewing their cute daughter could snap a pic with his cell camera
and that there is 100% zero danger of harm from radiation

Reality:

The images are high resolution, very detailed, very realistic
The viewer is not gender specific and is most likely to be male
The only thing preventing him from snapping pics with his cell phone is the threat of being fired - if he gets caught.
Experts do not know if there is or is not harm from the radiation.

I wonder if there will ever be a TSA whistleblower who "accidentally" leaks out the real body scanner images.

Of course, the TSA will say the images are fake.

People were up in arms about removing shoes, 3.4oz. liquid bottles, standard patdowns, etc. And where are we today?? It's just normal proceedure.

In a year or so, these new scanners and proceedures will be common proceedure also.
It is a cumulative thing for us (and I think a lot of other people). It got a little worse over time, but for us this is "the straw that broke the camel's back"...we won't be flying until changes are made...(eliminate the threat at the source and more profiling).
TSA is always "reactive" (current pat-down/scanner problems related to Christmas day bomber one year ago)...they will never keep up with inexpensive terrorist methods. See:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_re_us/us_yemen_al_qaida_claim
Money quote from that article:
""To bring down America we do not need to strike big," the editors (terrorists) write. With the "security phobia that is sweeping America, it is more feasible to stage smaller attacks that involve less players and less time to launch" thereby circumventing U.S. security, they conclude."

(I added bold highlight) They watch and adapt, TSA will always be 2 steps behind.

So your solution is to just roll over, eh?

Don't fricken think so!

+1

We shall prevail.

+1

We shall prevail.

I don’t know if you meant this or not, but those are the final words of Big Brother in Apple’s 1984 ad before the heroine smashes the screen with a sledgehammer.

(Ignoring what’s changed about Apple since then...)

My main concern is that I haven't heard of any TSA screeners opposing this proceedure. Kinda odd, isn't it?

Leaving MDW on Friday, I casually mentioned something about the NoS to the TSO checking my ID. Her response left me picking my jaw up off the floor.

"When they show up here, I'm quitting and finding a new job. You think I want to be exposed to radiation and look at people naked all day?"

Of course this is one TSO. And I believe there are several thousand more who might feel the same way.

Interesting, but.... Someone went to them and asked. Are any coming forward on their own?

There was a TSA screener on this forum that stated he would likely be seeking employment elsewhere instead of having to grope the traveling public.

I wonder if there will ever be a TSA whistleblower who "accidentally" leaks out the real body scanner images.

Of course, the TSA will say the images are fake.

Wikileaks ... I'm just waiting for it. Some TSO (or higher pay grade), somewhere will have had enough.

There was a TSA screener on this forum that stated he would likely be seeking employment elsewhere instead of having to grope the traveling public.


I'm a very patient person.
It's nice to hear things like this, but lets wait and see what they all do when it really happens. After all, the job puts food on their tables, and work is scarce in this economy.

In a year or so, these new scanners and proceedures will be common procedure also.

No they won't.

It's really sad, but that's the way it is.

No it's not.

Free Airport prostate exams in 2012??

You go ahead.

Pleas re-read the post. I never stated that I would "roll over". I'm saying that most OTHERS will "roll over".

The title of your thread "Let's Get Real" and the overall gloomy, defeatist tone of your post doesn't exactly inspire people that you are on the side of most of people here. I assumed the same as the other responder by reading your post.

There are many of us in the country who are still upset about the absurdity of removing our shoes and putting our liquids in 3 oz bottles in order to keep planes from dropping from the sky.

There are many of us in the country who are still upset about the absurdity of removing our shoes and putting our liquids in 3 oz bottles in order to keep planes from dropping from the sky.

... and out of the country too

Welcome to FlyerTalk, Houston.Business! :)




TSA Enhanced Pat Downs : The Screeners Point Of View (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2010/11/18/tsa-enhanced-pat-downs-the-screeners-point-of-view/)


While I am sympathetic, somewhat, so far everything I've heard from unhappy TSOs is about how much they don't like the process or verbal abuse from passengers. The quotes in the article above may have been selective or responses to a particular question, but all are self-centered. What about sympathy for the passengers? Don't they have friends and family that fly?

Well.....Opt-Out day has come and gone, and it went just as I suspected. People were like sheep, and just blindly wandered through the Nude-O-Scope without question. I was early, and watched the scanner for over an hour, and no one opted out. (Detroit Metro)

I was able to dodge the whole thing when they rolled a Great Grandma in a wheel chair up to the scanner in front of me, and I was directed to the metal detector.

As I stated earlier, it will become a way of life soon, and only because NO ONE will back us up. Just another reason why casual flyers pi$$ me off!!!!!!!!!!

It's been two months since this thread was started, and I'm wondering about everyone's opinion now.

I fly 3 to 5 times a week, and I'm usually among only one or two others who opt-out, while thousands of "lemmings" are smiling while raising their arms for the "smurfs".

I now wonder if they will repeal the opt-out option as time goes by.

I now wonder if they will repeal the opt-out option as time goes by.

There's no reason to repeal the opt-out option.

There are plenty of people who can't use AIT but still must be screened: children and people with physical disabilities, just to name two quick examples. (I'm sure there are plenty of others.) So there will be a need to have alternate screening procedures for those folks ... and as long as those alternate screening procedures exist, there's no reason not to allow others to use them.

It's been two months since this thread was started, and I'm wondering about everyone's opinion now.

I fly 3 to 5 times a week, and I'm usually among only one or two others who opt-out, while thousands of "lemmings" are smiling while raising their arms for the "smurfs".

I now wonder if they will repeal the opt-out option as time goes by.

I simply don't fly any more.

And given that the United States' only real export any more is tourism, we're going to be losing all of that, too - I've already heard from friends and relatives in other countries that they'll no longer travel to the US if they have to be irradiated and/or groped just to go home again.

There's no reason to repeal the opt-out option.

There are plenty of people who can't use AIT but still must be screened: children and people with physical disabilities, just to name two quick examples. (I'm sure there are plenty of others.) So there will be a need to have alternate screening procedures for those folks ... and as long as those alternate screening procedures exist, there's no reason not to allow others to use them.

You're right there. I probably should have not made that comment.

My main point is, that the scanners will be a way of travel life very soon. As long as travelers are told they are safer, they'll follow like sheep. Some day they'll look up from their noses being buryied in their cell phones, and wonder what happened.

\Some day they'll look up from their noses being buryied in their cell phones, and wonder what happened.

Or fall in a fountain while texting :D

Or fall in a fountain while texting :D

And sue.

My main point is, that the scanners will be a way of travel life very soon. As long as travelers are told they are safer, they'll follow like sheep. Some day they'll look up from their noses being buryied in their cell phones, and wonder what happened.

Which is why people need to start/continue pushing back so that they do not become "normal."

I fear that if we don't get this situation fixed before people who remember flying before all of this insanity, preferably as adults, retire or exit public life, then it could either take centuries or a major upheaval (i.e., civil or revolutionary war) to get it fixed.

If you use 9/11 as the tipping point, people who were born in 1976 were 25 then and will be 65 in 2041. If you use the start of airport id checks (1996 after TWA 800) and the same terms, it's 2036. If you use the start of airport screening (~1970), it's 2010, i.e., last year.

IMO in the best case we've got about 25 years to fix this before it will be too late. But if it's allowed to go on for another 25 years, it's going to get *really,* bad.

I couldn't agree more. But, my point is, let's see how many people will be backing us up as time goes by.

I admit to semi-compulsively Googling the phrase 'passenger load factor'...just checking to see if passenger loads begin to decline as word spreads about the scope 'n grope.

People were up in arms about removing shoes, 3.4oz. liquid bottles,

It has been a few months since I've bothered to remove liquids from my carry-on bags. TSA no longer seems to care about them.

I don’t know if you meant this or not, but those are the final words of Big Brother in Apple’s 1984 ad before the heroine smashes the screen with a sledgehammer.

(Ignoring what’s changed about Apple since then...)

"Press any key to continue."

I think a minority can succeed, as long as that minority never ceases to press the issue.

I realize the majority of people are sheep, but that just means we have to turn the herd. If we can't do it suddenly, then we can do it subtly, by degrees.

We simply never let up. Call it a hobby:D

There's no reason to repeal the opt-out option.

There are plenty of people who can't use AIT but still must be screened: children and people with physical disabilities, just to name two quick examples. (I'm sure there are plenty of others.) So there will be a need to have alternate screening procedures for those folks ... and as long as those alternate screening procedures exist, there's no reason not to allow others to use them.

...only certain physical disabilities. If you have a prosthetic, they will still try to stick you through the pornoscanner anyways and then humiliate you for having a prosthetic, since that seems to be SOP.

I think a minority can succeed, as long as that minority never ceases to press the issue.

I realize the majority of people are sheep, but that just means we have to turn the herd. If we can't do it suddenly, then we can do it subtly, by degrees.

We simply never let up. Call it a hobby:D

Brilliant! ^^ I like the way you think.

Turn the herd... the wolves are watching.

...only certain physical disabilities.

Of course. (I didn't want to get into a long and detailed taxonomy of the types of disabilities that make one unable to use an AIT scanner ...)

Of course. (I didn't want to get into a long and detailed taxonomy of the types of disabilities that make one unable to use an AIT scanner ...)

Fair enough. I'm just weary of the fact that the party line is that pornoscanners will make it easier on disabled travelers (which BB repeats whenever this comes up) when in fact they're pretty much what has rendered airplanes off limits because the TSA is so colossally dumb that they can't tell a prosthetic from a bomb and use this for their special super-sexualized shame-based harassment. Hint: There are no wires coming out of my breasts.

I'm hopeful the ACLU and our courts are going to finally put a stop to this nonsense but I fear this too will be a lengthy process. I certainly don't expect our lawmakers to do it, although there is a glimmer of hope with Congressman Jason Chaffetz in a position to make a difference.

Fair enough. I'm just weary of the fact that the party line is that pornoscanners will make it easier on disabled travelers (which BB repeats whenever this comes up) when in fact they're pretty much what has rendered airplanes off limits because the TSA is so colossally dumb that they can't tell a prosthetic from a bomb and use this for their special super-sexualized shame-based harassment. Hint: There are no wires coming out of my breasts.

The only disabled travelers able to "take advantage" of the so-called "convenience" of these new technologies are the ones that are able to "assume the position" without external support for the required interval of time and don't trigger a resolution pat-down due to the revelation of prosthetics, etal, ad nauseum. There IS no relief for the rest. Unacceptable!