TalkBoard Topics - Request: Re-establish the Senior Travel Forum

I propose a reopening of the Senior Travel Forum.

A Senior Travel Forum once existed. Two years ago, the Talk Board voted to close that forum, due to lack of participation and a feeling that the content of a Seniors' forum would not be substantially different than that of other, existing forums.

I'll confess that I didn't pay much attention to the Senior Travel Forum back then. But something changed: now I'm an Old. And guess what: all of my fellow Baby Boomers are going to be crossing that 60/62/65 threshold in the very near future. So, it's reasonable to expect that a non-negligible number of FlyerTalkers will be more interested in Senior travel topics than was the case 2 years ago.

As for content, here's a perfect example of a topic that makes great sense in a Senior forum, but that would easily get lost if in the Travel Buzz forum or unseen by most if in the Hyatt forum: I just made a reservation at the Grand Hyatt in Tokyo (Roppongi), which is one of the better hotels in the city (or the world, for that matter). The best cancelable rate is $433/night. The AARP rate is a little bit better -- $390/night. But the Senior Citizen rate -- available to anyone 62 and up -- is an astounding $260/night.

FlyerTalkers are known for uncovering great deals like this, but there's really no logical place for info that's targeted to us Ancients. I propose that be changed.

Could you cite specific examples of an unmet need that are not better placed elsewhere? E.g. AARP/Senior rates for SPG hotels really belong in SPG, where one who is eligible to comparison shop would find them of interest as opposed to a forum where the focus is more on AARP/Seniors and not SPG.

Agreed. Unfortunately, the Senior Travel forum, when it was active, didn't have much depth to it and it doesn't, generally, seem to be missed. The example cited by the OP above is likely an SPG topic vs. a senior travel topic. I'm not sure a lot of seniors (and this is my impression) would get excited about a $260/night hotel in Tokyo.

There would need to be, IMHO, validated need for this forum. Experience shows that that need isn't currently there. I was one of two people who voted against it in April 08 - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/town-hall-official-talkboard-voting-decisions/818896-motion-passed-seniors-travel-forum.html - and at this time, I still stand by that. When it was revisited in February 09, 10 months later, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/town-hall-official-talkboard-voting-decisions/920546-motion-adopted-close-senior-travel-forum.html - it was shuttered it was an underutilized forum.

Could you cite specific examples of an unmet need that are not better placed elsewhere?

Yes: "Where can I find a gorgeous 30 year old blonde who is interested in meeting a man who turns 65 in December?"

For some sad reason, I have never been able to get an answer on FT. (True, there are other sites which provide that information, but for some reason all the women there are seeking $$$.)

On a more serious level, it is true that as the Baby Boomers hit their retirement years, the interest in a Seniors Forum will increase.

On a more serious level, it is true that as the Baby Boomers hit their retirement years, the interest in a Seniors Forum will increase.

Maybe. Maybe not.

I'd be pleased to see demonstration of an unmet need for the (re)creation of such a forum.

I'm not going to participate a colloquy on the question. There's either an audience for a revived forum or there isn't.

The answer to Spiff's question seemed clear to me, but I'll try to be more explicit: The need, which is currently unmet, is for a area of FlyerTalk that discusses those opportunities and challenges that apply specifically to senior FlyerTalkers and not to the FlyerTalk populace in general.

If a Senior FlyerTalker is looking for hotels for an upcoming trip and has SPG brand loyalty, the SPG forum is the answer. But the senior FlyerTalker looking for a great deal irrespective of brand has no answer other than Spiff's: search in a dozen different hotel forums, and try to find any topics/offers in those forums that might be applicable.

Now I have no clue whether the number of FlyerTalkers participating in a new Senior forum would be minimal or significant. That's why I raised the question.

I'd also take some serious exception to this:

I'm not sure a lot of seniors (and this is my impression) would get excited about a $260/night hotel in Tokyo.

Well, you're probably right, if you're talking about all seniors. Just as you'd be right if you said that most air travelers have never flown in First Class. But this is FlyerTalk, and a good many of us have learned, and have taught others, how to travel really, really well for a whole lot less than retail. And the thought that someone in his 60s is any less interested in traveling in style than someone in his 30s is just plain ignorant. What's more, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that 60-somethings have, on average, considerably more disposable income than do any other age bracket. So, please, spare me the image of old people tottering around on a tour bus. Sure, lots of Olds travel that way. But go into the lobby of any Ritz Carlton, of any Peninsula, and you'll see a disproportionate percentage of Ancients.

In short, I would expect that quite a few FlyerTalkers, regardless of age, would be extremely interested, indeed, in rates that are 40% off "best available" for a property such as the Tokyo Grand Hyatt.

In short, I would expect that quite a few FlyerTalkers, regardless of age, would be extremely interested, indeed, in rates that are 40% off "best available" for a property such as the Tokyo Grand Hyatt.

Which is why that would be most appropriately placed in the hotel-specific forum...

The answer to Spiff's question seemed clear to me, but I'll try to be more explicit: The need, which is currently unmet, is for a area of FlyerTalk that discusses those opportunities and challenges that apply specifically to senior FlyerTalkers and not to the FlyerTalk populace in general.

If a Senior FlyerTalker is looking for hotels for an upcoming trip and has SPG brand loyalty, the SPG forum is the answer. But the senior FlyerTalker looking for a great deal irrespective of brand has no answer other than Spiff's: search in a dozen different hotel forums, and try to find any topics/offers in those forums that might be applicable.



wideman, I agree with you 100%.

Why make seniors or any other interest group jump through multiple hoops to find a simple answer to a simple question? I've never been able to figure that one out.

There is a TB contingent that seems to want to limit the choice of forums here on FT so that navigating through them to find the exact answer for a newbie becomes a confusing labyrinth.

Want to find a seniors rate for hotels in Japan?? Cruise through a dozen confusing hotel forums for the answer or, hey, pose the question in the Seniors Forum for helpful members to answer.

Seems simple enough to me.

If a Senior FlyerTalker is looking for hotels for an upcoming trip and has SPG brand loyalty, the SPG forum is the answer. But the senior FlyerTalker looking for a great deal irrespective of brand....

FlyerTalk is about miles and points. If someone is simply looking for bargains for their demographic (seniors, gay, travelers with furniture, etc.) then there are other websites that do a much better job.

This is a website about maximizing mile-and-point opportunities and given that presupposition, the current arrangement makes the most sense.

Moreover, as implied above, the test of the senior travel forum was pretty recent and it was pretty much limited to a handful of folks talking back and forth.

Little reason to think, imo therefore, that there will be much substantive use of such a forum again so soon.

FlyerTalk is about miles and points. If someone is simply looking for bargains for their demographic (seniors, gay, travelers with furniture, etc.) then there are other websites that do a much better job.

This is a website about maximizing mile-and-point opportunities and given that presupposition, the current arrangement makes the most sense.

Moreover, as implied above, the test of the senior travel forum was pretty recent and it was pretty much limited to a handful of folks talking back and forth.

Little reason to think, imo therefore, that there will be much substantive use of such a forum again so soon.

Agree completely. What if anything has changed since the senior's forum was shuttered other than everyone getting that much older?

Just retired. A bit unexpectedly. However, I would like an easy way to find deals for seniors. I'm not yet 65, but will be. I am finding that I want to travel within a budget (OK, it's $40k for each year) and maximize the amount I have available. (And so, finding a $260 tariff for a good hotel in Tokyo would be great. And I don't frequent *Wood, so I'd never find it there.)

I want to stay in good hotels. I want to fly TPAC in business or first. I need to stay within my budget.

So, yes, perhaps the only difference is that some of us are getting older. But we will be more and more each year.

It may be beneficial to see this thread - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/town-hall-official-talkboard-voting-decisions/1100320-motion-passed-talkboard-statement-criteria-forum-changes.html

For me, one of the factors that I think about when considering a new forum, is whether or not FlyerTalk is the best place to find the information and/or whether or not other places are doing a better job and whether that forum is a relevant subject matter for FlyerTalk.

I didn't see that the previous Senior Travel forum met that factor.

A simple Google search comes up with a wealth of information & Frommers, TripAdvisor, About.com and Lonely Planet all have established Senior Travel forums (which have been clearly more successful than FlyerTalk's attempt). Until there's a demonstrated need, I just don't see it happening. A "Wouldn't it be nice to have...." suffices for new forum creation, IMHO.

Sorry to be so passionately against it, but it's something that's already happened & already been noted as a failure.

A Senior Travel Forum once existed. Two years ago, the Talk Board voted to close that forum,...

I'll confess that I didn't pay much attention to the Senior Travel Forum back then. But something changed: now I'm an Old.

... There's either an audience for a revived forum or there isn't.

The answer to Spiff's question seemed clear to me, but I'll try to be more explicit: The need, which is currently unmet, is for a area of FlyerTalk that discusses those opportunities and challenges that apply specifically to senior FlyerTalkers and not to the FlyerTalk populace in general.
(emphasis mine)

I think empirical data will speak much louder than pure speculation.

wideman, since you didn't grow the passion for senior travels until recently, IMHO, it may be a good idea for you to start some general discussion in say TravelBuzz! Forum and see how the traffic picks up. If I were you, I probably would have "Senior" in the thread titles to make it stand out. If there's enough audience to substantiate general concerns/tips for senior travels in TravelBuzz! Forum, you'll have something to appeal to the new TB.

Who knows what had changed in the last two years. There might be enough FTers with a change of heart to embrace their now-new-found seniority and eager to share their love for senior travels on FT. I, OTOH, do grow quite a few gray hairs but still am decades away from reaching Senior status. ;)

Good luck!

Sorry to be so passionately against it, but it's something that's already happened & already been noted as a failure.

Yes, it was a failure. However, as noted above, the Baby Boomer generation is now starting to reach "Senior Citizen" status. This makes more of us eligible for benefits and might well increase interest in the forum.

I have to admit that I smiled when I read your post saying, "A simple Google search comes up with a wealth of information & Frommers, TripAdvisor, About.com and Lonely Planet all have established Senior Travel forums..."

The reason that I smiled is that I was faced with that same argument when I pushed for the Budget Travel Forum. When I got on TB it was one of my first priorities and eventually it was passed -- and you wound up moderating it.

Might it be helpful for everyone on either side of this to look at the discussion that happened around the closure? Here -> http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/915747-update-motion-adopted-close-senior-travel-forum-2.html

The reason that I smiled is that I was faced with that same argument when I pushed for the Budget Travel Forum. When I got on TB it was one of my first priorities and eventually it was passed -- and you wound up moderating it.

I wound up supporting it & moderating it because there was a demonstrated need for it. Mileage Run was becoming overrun with requests for assistance for fares & some of the threads were turning into budget travel type threads. There was no place on FT to discuss LCC's & budget travel - and there was a demonstrated need...and after 8 months of being in place, it was a successful forum ;).

Could you cite specific examples of an unmet need that are not better placed elsewhere? E.g. AARP/Senior rates for SPG hotels really belong in SPG, where one who is eligible to comparison shop would find them of interest as opposed to a forum where the focus is more on AARP/Seniors and not SPG.
Unmet needs:

1. Reviews of destinations that don't focus on clubbing, singles scene, etc.

2. Posts that don't include the word, "dude."

3. An environment that doesn't include posters that say, "Dude, it's only an 8-hour flight -- get over it!"

4. An environment that wouldn't include posts that assume seniors are only interested in AARP (I'm not a member, thank you very much).

I had more, but I've forgotten what they were. ;)

... it doesn't, generally, seem to be missed. Just musing, how can you tell? The old forum was done away with, so it hasn't been possible to post in it. ;)The need, which is currently unmet, is for a area of FlyerTalk that discusses those opportunities and challenges that apply specifically to senior FlyerTalkers and not to the FlyerTalk populace in general.Indeed. Hotel rates have been mentioned, but that's not the only potential topic of interest. The previous Seniors forum had useful information on senior fares on public transportation in Los Angeles and New York, for example, topics of interest to travelers which would be difficult to find in hotel forums.FlyerTalk is about miles and points ... This is a website about maximizing mile-and-point opportunities and given that presupposition, the current arrangement makes the most sense.Hmmm, golly gosh! It's a case of Not Only But Also.

Sure, miles and points are important and probably the main reason why we subscribe, but another of the strengths of FlyerTalk is the wide range of advice in the Travel&Dining forums which I have found supremely valuable and to which I contribute. Such exchanges are part of the value of FlyerTalk and, I hope, are not in danger of closure as they don't directly maximize mile and point opportunities.

FlyerTalk is about miles and points. If someone is simply looking for bargains for their demographic (seniors, gay, travelers with furniture, etc.) then there are other websites that do a much better job.

It's a case of Not Only But Also.

Of course it is, Roger. I have no clue what cblaisd was thinking about; there are probably 50 FlyerTalk forums that are not about miles and points.

I'll admit to being surprised at the antipathy that some have shown toward a Senior Traveler forum, both in this thread and the previous discussion. And the explicit or implicit stereotypes that are seen here don't help.

It's difficult for me to believe that, in the FlyerTalk community, there is less of an audience for a Senior forum than there is for, say, an Antarctica forum, or a Cuba forum.

It's difficult for me to believe that, in the FlyerTalk community, there is less of an audience for a Senior forum than there is for, say, an Antarctica forum, or a Cuba forum.

So where was this audience when there was a Senior's forum?

FWIW I'm more comfortable with travel forums than demographic forums but YMMV.

So where was this audience when there was a Senior's forum?

What was done to publicize that forum? Much like the Talk Board forum that seems to get minimal views, do you think the majority of FTers even knew it existed? I only saw a handful of posters on it, but thought that was because most FTers didn't know it was there versus the topic didn't interest them.

For comparison, are you aware there is a New Features forum and have you visited it? If you, or others here, are not aware of that forum, how would you know to visit and check it out?

What was done to publicize that forum? Much like the Talk Board forum that seems to get minimal views, do you think the majority of FTers even knew it existed? I only saw a handful of posters on it, but thought that was because most FTers didn't know it was there versus the topic didn't interest them.

So how then have other new forums survived while the Senior's didn't with the same relatively small attention drawn to them? It may be TB's job to discuss, debate and vote upon recommending new forums but is it their mandate to promote them also?

Actually on that subject one of my goals is to find a way to better communicate TB's role throughout FT and involve more regular members in its business, get more folks involved to have a say about isssues at hand that ultimately may effect them. One need look no further than 2010 election forum to understand this as several submitted questions are about issues beyond TB's purview. Don't mean to politic but the issues about drawing more attention to lesser trafficked fora seemed similar.

For comparison, are you aware there is a New Features forum and have you visited it? If you, or others here, are not aware of that forum, how would you know to visit and check it out?

Yes, I was well aware aware of this new forum initiative and only found it out because of my own surfing efforts. However this is a very new forum whereas the seniors forum was around for a while so had the same chance to build a following other new forums did and it didn't.

Sorry but the argument that there'll be lots of older folks isn't by itself persuasive enough to me to revisit a senior's forum without at the same time pointing to a supposed need that is going unmet. At this point in time I don't believe that's the case but YMMV.

So how then have other new forums survived while the Senior's didn't with the same relatively small attention drawn to them?

I just looked back to the first of the year and the only new forum I see is Accor. I hope I haven't overlooked others. Traditionally on FT airline and hotel programs get a lot of traffic, and Accor had a lot of traffic scattered across FT before the forum was created. I can't say I noticed a lot of threads with "senior" in the title (and still don't today), though it could be down in the body of the message and not in the title. Accor is pretty easy to pick out if you know the various brands they have.

It may be TB's job to discuss, debate and vote upon recommending new forums but is it their mandate to promote them also?

You might recall when Talk Board asked for suggestions for their annual meeting earlier this year, I requested they do better in publicizing what they are doing. One of the things I suggested was a monthly or quarterly newsletter. There did not seem to be any interest in that, and one member told me I could review the minutes from their annual meeting if I wanted to know what they were doing. They could also use the monthly Talk Mail newsletter to introduce new forums or policies or procedures they are working on. The introduction of new forums, and even that they're discussing the issue (creating new forums, whatever the topic), would be a good topic for any regular correspondence they can send out.


Actually on that subject one of my goals is to find a way to better communicate TB's role throughout FT and involve more regular members in its business, get more folks involved to have a say about isssues at hand that ultimately may effect them.

Any candidate that has a platform that offers better communication with the members is one worthy of consideration. I won't be voting for candidates that are not committed to that. I don't know the viewpoint of a number of candidates that are not participating in the question and answer session, so they can all be ruled right out, too.

wideman, I agree with you 100%.

Why make seniors or any other interest group jump through multiple hoops to find a simple answer to a simple question? I've never been able to figure that one out.

There is a TB contingent that seems to want to limit the choice of forums here on FT so that navigating through them to find the exact answer for a newbie becomes a confusing labyrinth.

Want to find a seniors rate for hotels in Japan?? Cruise through a dozen confusing hotel forums for the answer or, hey, pose the question in the Seniors Forum for helpful members to answer.

Seems simple enough to me.

^ I agree.

wideman, I agree with you 100%.

Why make seniors or any other interest group jump through multiple hoops to find a simple answer to a simple question? I've never been able to figure that one out.

There is a TB contingent that seems to want to limit the choice of forums here on FT so that navigating through them to find the exact answer for a newbie becomes a confusing labyrinth.

Want to find a seniors rate for hotels in Japan?? Cruise through a dozen confusing hotel forums for the answer or, hey, pose the question in the Seniors Forum for helpful members to answer.

Seems simple enough to me.

I agree also.
Since there seems to be an "anti-senior" bias by the TB who seems to be so concerned about their limited bandwidth, I very rarely visit this site much anymore, and frankly don't miss it much.

I'm still not seeing any demonstration of an unmet need for this forum.

TalkBoard established some guidelines for forum requests. I'd be pleased to entertain such requests when they are made in the context of these guidelines.

I submit that part of the reason that the Seniors Forum was closed (over my objections, btw (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11229015-post69.html)) is that some of the TB members held antipathy and/or ill-will toward some of the regular participants in the Seniors Forum.

I believe it was viewed by some on the TB as to 'clubby' and personal.

The demographics clearly favor the success of a seniors forum. Other major travel forums including TripAdvisor and Frommers have Seniors Travel forums.

I think the plug was pulled on this forum too soon and, in some TB members' cases, for personal/personality reasons.

Since some of those TB members continue to serve on the TB I very seriously doubt this proposal will go anywhere.

Which is a shame.

IMHO and YMMV.

There were 3 regular participants of Seniors. That's very personal, very clubby, but not enough to maintain a forum. There was no evidence of any increase in use - in fact, following one of the regulars leaving FT, there was a very substantial decrease in traffic.

I frequently PM more than three people in one go. Should I ask for a personal forum to save me going to the trouble of PMing?

It's very easy to say 'personal' when the forum just didn't take off or work. If the forum had actually succeeded, then it would have been much, much harder to close it down for these supposedly 'personal' reasons. I think more posts have been written about whether there should be a Seniors forum, than were actually posted in the forum in the year or so it actually existed! :D

So, what has changed since it failed last time?

So, what has changed since it failed last time?

The Baby Boomer Generation (the largest demographic group, at least in the US) has started to qualify for senior benefits/discounts.

And are they posting about them? Because we were told that was the reason last time, and they didn't come and post then. So what makes the difference between then and now? What has changed? Been down that road, and it didn't work once before...

I was one of those who voted for the forum initially on the promise that all these hordes of people would be wanting to discuss senior travel. The situation was frankly, they didn't. When I questioned those that had been posting in the forum, many didn't see themselves as fitting the forum profile - often they said they were posting on behalf of others. There seemed to be an unwillingness among those that are newly senior to actually admit it - or, they find the travel experience doesn't magically change just because they've gone from 60 to 61 (or 64 to 65), and so they don't need to have their issues coralled off into a separate forum, since mnay issues are generic travel issues, rather than purely senior issues.

Surely, benefits/discounts is a budget travel issue? If the sole raison d'etre for a forum is to be 'senior benefits/discounts' then that's a bit of a thin reason... as has already been demonstrated...

And are they posting about them?

Surely, benefits/discounts is a budget travel issue?

I believe that budget travel is seen as more of a young peoples' forum. In fact, it was orginally supposed to be either the Student Travel Forum or the Backpacker's Forum.

In all honesty, I have to admit that the Baby Boomers are just beginning to qualify for senior's benefits. In fact, I think the first ones will be those who were born on Jan 1, 1946. But this demographic is a giant one and FT might want to get in on the bottom floor with the forum.

FT'ers, in my own estimate from having met hundreds at DO's and in my travels, tend to skew younger than the general population. Thus a Senior's Forum would probably not be very attractive to the current average FT'er.

But the question here is do we want to attract the rapidly aging Baby Boomer generation who will perhaps travel more often after they retire? And would the creation of a Senior's Forum which was properly publicized and positioned so that it could be easily found be a draw?

It didn't work a few years ago but I'm willing to give it another chance. I think a lot of the non-travel forums like the Forums dedicated to GLBT Travelers, Women Travelers, Traveling with Children, Traveling with Pets, Disability Travel, and Religious Travelers are semi-hidden from view and difficult to find. To stick a new forum under Special Interest travel from the get-go is starting it out with two strikes against it IMO.

Perhaps we just list it on the main Forums page for a few months giving folks a better chance to find it and then move it to the Special Interest sub-category down the road.

Just a thought.

a Senior's Forum

Can we be less politically correct with the name?

I am 65, and I am not a "senior".

Nor have I reached my "golden years". (They were back in my late 20's when I was scoring with all females from 18 to 40.)

Let's call it what it is, "The Old Folks Forum".

There were 3 regular participants of Seniors. That's very personal, very clubby, but not enough to maintain a forum. There was no evidence of any increase in use - in fact, following one of the regulars leaving FT, there was a very substantial decrease in traffic.

I frequently PM more than three people in one go. Should I ask for a personal forum to save me going to the trouble of PMing?

It's very easy to say 'personal' when the forum just didn't take off or work. If the forum had actually succeeded, then it would have been much, much harder to close it down for these supposedly 'personal' reasons. I think more posts have been written about whether there should be a Seniors forum, than were actually posted in the forum in the year or so it actually existed! :D

So, what has changed since it failed last time?

When I first posted on the UA forum in May 1998 there were about 5 regular posters...and I am pretty sure that two of them were 'forum seeders' from the HoM. It was quite clubby. Heck, even by the time the PiP came around I pretty much knew every UA poster on a first name basis. The same can be said of the Women Traveler forum when it started as well as the GLBT forum when it started. That's how forums get their legs.

I still find it interesting that of all of the 'underutilized' forums this is the only one that was ever singled out for elimination.

Actually, it's not interesting; it's obvious: it was personal. And unlike Women or GLBTs, discrimination against people over 55 based on personal vendettas on a board dominated by youngsters like you and me is apparently quite acceptable. :td:

When I first posted on the UA forum in May 1998 there were about 5 regular posters...and I am pretty sure that two of them were 'forum seeders' from the HoM. It was quite clubby. Heck, even by the time the PiP came around I pretty much knew every UA poster on a first name basis. The same can be said of the Women Traveler forum when it started as well as the GLBT forum when it started. That's how forums get their legs.

I still find it interesting that of all of the 'underutilized' forums this is the only one that was ever singled out for elimination.

Actually, it's not interesting; it's obvious: it was personal. And unlike Women or GLBTs, discrimination against people over 55 based on personal vendettas on a board dominated by youngsters like you and me is apparently quite acceptable. :td:

I think you're making insinuations and accusations that you cannot back up.

As always, I'm very pleased to hear a case made for the closure of other underutilized forums. This year, the TalkBoard will make a review of all forums to see if there are any that are underutilized. This was decided during our meeting in April as part of identifying a process for requesting new forums.

Again, as to the request in the title: where is this request in the context of the guidelines for recommending new forums be opened? :confused: For me, the two most important criteria are: is there an existing unmet need on FlyerTalk, and will this new forum be beneficial to FlyerTalk? I've seen nothing that really answers both of my questions.

Here's why the forum would be helpful: save you time looking for the best hotel for seniors. AARP should be good at this but does not really address the issues, just offers a travel agency.

My husband and I are still independent travelers and use the senior rates at hotels as much as possible. The passing of the senior gold category at Hilton is something that belonged on the Senior Board. Had we been able to muster some clout, perhaps we could have changed their minds or enticed a different chain to institute a special category. Or at least set up something for the very frequent work traveler who is suddenly retired without status at the hotels.

I know there are quite a number of seniors on Flyertalk as I have met them. Many are charter or nearly charter like Rudi, Punki, Hunki, etc. But I think there was inadequate publicity for the site. I used it but not many did. One must keep in mind that the discounts through AARP begin at age 50!

I think you're making insinuations and accusations that you cannot back up.

As always, I'm very pleased to hear a case made for the closure of other underutilized forums. This year, the TalkBoard will make a review of all forums to see if there are any that are underutilized. This was decided during our meeting in April as part of identifying a process for requesting new forums.

Again, as to the request in the title: where is this request in the context of the guidelines for recommending new forums be opened? :confused: For me, the two most important criteria are: is there an existing unmet need on FlyerTalk, and will this new forum be beneficial to FlyerTalk? I've seen nothing that really answers both of my questions.

I am not making accusations, I am sharing my opinions. Isn't that what this forum is for?

You keep throwing the bolded challenge out. But YOU were the one who made the motion to close the seniors forum. Why did you choose to single that one forum out and no other forums? Why all the attention to that one forum? Why the double standard?

I certainly have my opinion as to why! ;)

You keep throwing this challege out. But YOU were the one who made the motion to close the seniors forum. Why did you choose to single that one forum out and no other forums? Why all the attention to that one forum? Why the double standard?

What double standard? It was severely under-utilized. A suggestion was made to close it by another FlyerTalk member. Discussion ensued. I was convinced it served little purpose other than to further fragment FlyerTalk. Motion made, motion seconded, motion discussed and voted upon, motion passed.

What independent suggestions for closure of other forums have been made and had plenty of public discussion have then been ignored or voted down? :confused:

What double standard? It was severely under-utilized. A suggestion was made to close it by another FlyerTalk member. Discussion ensued. I was convinced it served little purpose other than to further fragment FlyerTalk. Motion made, motion seconded, motion discussed and voted upon, motion passed.

What independent suggestions for closure of other forums have been made and had plenty of public discussion have been ignored or voted down? :confused:

Lol. Oh, Spiffy. You make me laugh! You spin like a real politician now!!! :)

I was ON the TB at the time, remember?!

Whether you were one or not, you carried water for folks with an axe to grind, imho.

Again, just mho. :-*

Lol. Oh, Spiffy. You make me laugh! You spin like a real politician now!!! :)

I was ON the TB at the time, remember?!

Whether you were one or not, you carried water for folks with an axe to grind, imho.

Again, just mho. :-*

As you wish, but now you're really impugning me. :p

Again, I ask: What other independent forum closure suggestions have been made and discussed? Simple question, re: your "double standard".

As you wish, but now you're really impugning me. :p

Again, I ask: What other independent forum closure suggestions have been made and discussed? Simple question, re: your "double standard".

Off the top of my head: Religious, Women, GLBT , Disability, Pets, Alatalia, Travel with Furniture ;)... If I had the time or inclination I'd look for more...wait, don't I recall you vote to keep religious travel OPEN? :o

You appear only ever to have seen fit to make a closure motion about this one forum, and jumped on it as the second poster after the suggestion was made. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/10384980-post2.html)

Off the top of my head: Religious, Women, GLBT , Disability, Pets, Alatalia, Travel with Furniture ;)... If I had the time or inclination I'd look for more...wait, don't I recall you vote to keep religious travel OPEN? :o

Hold on there, Chief. Could you show us the discussion thread for any of these forums other than Religious Travelers?

You appear only ever to have seen fit to make a closure motion about this one forum, and jumped on it as the second poster after the suggestion was made. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/10384980-post2.html)

Yes, and yes. What's your point? I don't normally go looking for underutilized forums for closure. The TalkBoard will be conducting a FlyerTalk-wide forum review for underutilized forums for the first time shortly.

Now, If you can point me to any other forums that had an independent suggestion for closure with discussion, I'd be very pleased to address them.

Actually, it's not interesting; it's obvious: it was personal.

FWIW, it wasn't personal for me - I voted against it from day one, my friend.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/town-hall-official-talkboard-voting-decisions/818896-motion-passed-seniors-travel-forum.html

It was alive for 10 months & in that 10 months, it failed to attract significant volume/quality/quantity of posts. Whereas I supported the closure with no hesitation (because I didn't think it was necessary in the first place), I don't think that it was closed for personal reasons - it was closed (in part) to many members complaining that the TB creates so many new forums, but refuses to close the underutilized ones. Around the same time, there was a vote on the "religious travelers" forum - which failed, because even though relatively underutilized, it had very specific & non-general information.

For those that may want to read up on the history - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/867153-proposal-close-seniors-forum.html and http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/915747-update-motion-adopted-close-senior-travel-forum.html

And 2 posts from the first thread - one from Kokonutz in September 08 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/10388496-post19.html)& a follow-up from Jenbel in January 09 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11155912-post92.html)

And are they posting about them? Because we were told that was the reason last time, and they didn't come and post then. So what makes the difference between then and now? What has changed? Been down that road, and it didn't work once before...

Amen Jenbel and I also don't feel it's a valid enough reason to recreate a seniors forum that went little used when it was around.

I think more posts have been written about whether there should be a Seniors forum, than were actually posted in the forum in the year or so it actually existed! :D

Agree. ^

Hold on there, Chief. Could you show us the discussion thread for any of these forums other than Religious Travelers?



Yes, and yes. What's your point? I don't normally go looking for underutilized forums for closure. The TalkBoard will be conducting a FlyerTalk-wide forum review for underutilized forums for the first time shortly.

Now, If you can point me to any other forums that had an independent suggestion for closure with discussion, I'd be very pleased to address them.

I'm not on the TB. YOU ARE. It's not my job to idenitfy underperforming forums. That's a role I served in and then retired from . It is, however, a job you re-signed up for. @:-)

There is precious little that the TB has done lately. And now they won't even talk about what they have talked about in the private TB forum then decided not to do. The LEAST TB members could do is their core function of forum management.

As a newcomer to Flyertalk...I read the above with bemusement. Simply because something failed in the past seems to be used as justification not to adapt and try again.
I am for some sort of very EXPERIENCED traveler forum.

I'm not on the TB. YOU ARE. It's not my job to idenitfy underperforming forums. That's a role I served in and then retired from . It is, however, a job you re-signed up for. @:-)

There is precious little that the TB has done lately. And now they won't even talk about what they have talked about in the private TB forum then decided not to do. The LEAST TB members could do is their core function of forum management.

Only recently (April) did TalkBoard vote to do an annual review of underperforming forums. That review is to take place soon after a new TalkBoard is seated, most likely January or Febuary due to holiday and/or travel schedules. Prior to that, I don't see anywhere in the TalkBoard Guidelines (largely written by a Señor Nutz... ;) ) that states it is the duty of TalkBoard members to seek out and close underperforming forums. However, just as TalkBoard hears and sometimes acts on requests for forum creation requests, the same is true for forum closure requests.

Now, since you have chosen to impugn me with Politician and Double-Standard labels, I ask again: what forums have been independently suggested and subsequently discussed for forum closure where either of those labels might apply? Simple question.

So prior to this past April you didn't view it as your job as a TB member to identify potential problems on FT and ways to make FT better, but rather only to respond to them when they are brought to your attention? That's an interesting perspective. Take no initiative; only respond. Did I say that incumbency breeds complacency? :p

I'm curious: as a moderator do you only investigate RBPs or do you proactively seek out spam and TOS violations?


Now, since you have chosen to impugn me with Politician and Double-Standard labels, I ask again: what forums have been independently suggested and subsequently discussed for forum closure where either of those labels might apply? Simple question.

Asked and answered.

You want specific links to posts questioning those forums, the search button is between, New Posts and Quick Links above. @:-)

So prior to this past April you didn't view it as your job as a TB member to identify potential problems on FT and ways to make FT better, but rather only to respond to them when they are brought to your attention? That's an interesting perspective. Take no initiative; only respond. Did I say that incumbency breeds complacency? :p

Now who's the politician? :D

I'm curious: as a moderator do you only investigate RBPs or do you proactively seek out spam and TOS violations?

Irrelevant. But you can always post some spam and see what, if anything, happens... :D



Asked and answered.

You want specific links to posts questioning those forums, the search button is between, New Posts and Quick Links above. @:-)

You're the one throwing out wild accusations. I asked for evidence. "Go look it up" isn't very solid evidence.

As a newcomer to Flyertalk...I read the above with bemusement. Simply because something failed in the past seems to be used as justification not to adapt and try again.
I am for some sort of very EXPERIENCED traveler forum.
In the past... the forum was finally declared dead officially in 2009... not that far in the past.

Insanity = doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Unless someone can show that conditions have changed since the first attempt, there is no good reason to try something again that has already failed once.

And in actual fact, we can already see why it might not be a good idea, since apparently, the decision to close a forum which is only able to attract 0-1 threads and three regular participants a month was personally motivated :confused: If, when TB actually manages to close a dead forum (see the Religious Travellers debate for the difficulties in closing a very slow forum) that decision is immediately castigated as 'being personal' then I have to wonder what metric of use those making that accusation would accept for a forum being inactive? :confused:

In the past... the forum was finally declared dead officially in 2009... not that far in the past.

Insanity = doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Unless someone can show that conditions have changed since the first attempt, there is no good reason to try something again that has already failed once.

And in actual fact, we can already see why it might not be a good idea, since apparently, the decision to close a forum which is only able to attract 0-1 threads and three regular participants a month was personally motivated :confused: If, when TB actually manages to close a dead forum (see the Religious Travellers debate for the difficulties in closing a very slow forum) that decision is immediately castigated as 'being personal' then I have to wonder what metric of use those making that accusation would accept for a forum being inactive? :confused:

IMHO, in some instances, build it and they will come. Sometimes patience is a virtue.

As it stands, FT is underserving the fastest growing demographic both in terms of population and travel.

For me, it comes down to a simple question of demographics.

According to projections based on the U.S. Census, an average of 4.6 adults turned 65 each minute in 2007. In 2025, an average of 8.0 adults in the US will turn 65 each minute. (McNamara, 2006).

These retirement age individuals are expected to live longer and travel more than any group of retirees before them. Retirees account for a large portion of the travel population, with an estimated 23 million retired people intending to travel over a 12-month span, according to 2006 statistics from research firm Focalyst.

Of course, it's not just about retirees. Demographics also show that more and more folks are working past 65, continuing to travel for work and pleasure.

They may not be the frequentest (stats show seniors take far fewer but MUCH longer trips), but as more and more baby boomers hit and/or stay on the road and the population curve shifts toward the right it just makes sense to me for senior travelers to have their own home on FT.

I personally think it's just a matter of time before the forum is discovered by more senior travelers and exploited to its full potential.