New Features - Top Flyer

Our Top Flyer program was announced in Community Buzz today:

Introducing Top Flyer
We are pleased to announce Top Flyer, an upcoming online program for travelers from American Express and FlyerTalk. Top Flyer will be featured on Flyertalk.com — it promises to be fun, informative, AND rewarding for our users. Together with American Express we want to make travel better for everyone, and we think Top Flyer will be another great way to help accomplish this.

How it works
Top Flyer is a program within FlyerTalk that rewards users for sharing their best tips about flying as rated by the Top Flyer community. The 10 highest-ranking users at the end of each month will achieve Top Flyer status – and receive either 5,000 Membership Rewards® bonus points from American Express, or a $25 American Express® Gift Card.

Become a BETA tester
A BETA version of Top Flyer will be released this month within a closed community. We plan to invite about 50 FlyerTalkers chosen by FlyerTalk to become our testers. Feedback from our BETA testers will help make Top Flyer a better experience for everyone.

If you are interested in becoming a BETA tester or have any questions, please email us at topflyer-beta@flyertalk.com or you can post any questions you have here. If you’re chosen to become a Top Flyer BETA tester, you will receive an e-mail with further details on the program and how to participate. For more information about the Membership Rewards program from American Express, visit membershiprewards.com.

Whatever happened to the concept of posting tips on FT for the common good?

The 10 highest-ranking users at the end of each month will achieve Top Flyer status – and receive either 5,000 Membership Rewards® bonus points from American Express, or a $25 American Express® Gift Card.

This won't work with a Costco AMEX, then, will it? That card does not accrue membership points. If you're going to limit this contest to only certain AMEX cards, you'll need to identify the correct cards. A $25 gift card just doesn't get me excited.

Is this just going to be another forum on FT that we can subscribe (or not subscribe) to?

I should warn you that prior to the Internet Brands takeover FT did experiment with rating threads. It did not go well.

This won't work with a Costco AMEX, then, will it? That card does not accrue membership points. If you're going to limit this contest to only certain AMEX cards, you'll need to identify the correct cards. A $25 gift card just doesn't get me excited.

Is this just going to be another forum on FT that we can subscribe (or not subscribe) to?

I should warn you that prior to the Internet Brands takeover FT did experiment with rating threads. It did not go well.

Thank for the feedback on the gift card, I can't do too much about it immediately but I will take a hard look at it mid term.

Top Flyer will exist completely outside the forum. There are several reasons for this but one is to address the last point. We are aware of the impact of reputation points on the forum and spent a lot of time thinking about how to avoid the problems that came with it. I would say that what happens in Top Flyer does not change a members reputation in the forum.

brent

Thank for the feedback on the gift card, I can't do too much about it immediately but I will take a hard look at it mid term.

Top Flyer will exist completely outside the forum. There are several reasons for this but one is to address the last point. We are aware of the impact of reputation points on the forum and spent a lot of time thinking about how to avoid the problems that came with it. I would say that what happens in Top Flyer does not change a members reputation in the forum.

brent

1. I'm confused. Will Top Flyer be a separate place (perhaps a separate forum) where people go to post their tips, or will it be a place where "the Top Flyer Community" will recognize tips made in the individual airline, hotel, car rental, etc. forums?

2. Watching the implementation of this will be interesting, to say the least. As an AA flyer, I know absolutely nothing about the Thai Airlines program or the Alatalia program. If I were presented with tips for each program, I would find it very difficult to appreciate more expert tips, but I could probably understand the most basic tips (the ones that all regular members of those forums know by heart). If the very basic tips are the ones that win, that will send a signal to the more expert members that their contributions are not valued, and will accellerate the trend of those members leaving for other sites, accelerating FT's march to be the go-to site for people who have never flown before. If the more expert tips are the ones that win, it seems to me that selection would be pretty arbitrary, because there would likely not be many members of the Top Flyer community that could appreciate the value of one vs. another. It seems like a difficult problem to me, and I will be interested to see if it can be solved.

2. IB can't do anything to change a "members (sic) reputation" in a forum. Members with a posting history already have a reputation for giving solid information or a reputation for posting in an authoritative manner misinformation that is worth less than nothing. If one of the latter gets a Top Flyer award, it won't change that member's reputation, it will change FT's reputation (but not by much, I grant you).

How it works
Top Flyer is a program within FlyerTalk that rewards users for sharing their best tips about flying as rated by the Top Flyer community. The 10 highest-ranking users at the end of each month will achieve Top Flyer status...
A couple of quick questions:

1). Does the Top Flyer Program have anything to do with the previous recruitment of writers for FT (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12059345-post30.html)?

2). Do the "selected" Top Flyer Community have to review every single thread/tip posted on FT (without pay) then rank them every month? Or do you guys plan to have a contest type of games that Top Flyer Community only review & rank submitted tips?

If it's the former, I doubt how feasible it is.

3). Where will the Top Flyer Community be? A separate section/forum on FT or what? And how does Top Flyer Community interacts or works together with FT Community?

4). When 10 ranked users (assuming FTers?) claim their rewards every month, how will "the Top 10 Tips of the Month" be shared with FTers? Through TalkMail? In this "New Features" Forum? Or does IB plan to "publish" it somewhere else so both Amex and IB can benefit?

If I were presented with tips for each program, I would find it very difficult to appreciate more expert tips, but I could probably understand the most basic tips (the ones that all regular members of those forums know by heart). If the very basic tips are the ones that win, that will send a signal to the more expert members that their contributions are not valued, and will accellerate the trend of those members leaving for other sites, accelerating FT's march to be the go-to site for people who have never flown before. If the more expert tips are the ones that win, it seems to me that selection would be pretty arbitrary, because there would likely not be many members of the Top Flyer community that could appreciate the value of one vs. another. It seems like a difficult problem to me, and I will be interested to see if it can be solved.
Well put.

Thank you for such great questions!

1. I'm confused. Will Top Flyer be a separate place (perhaps a separate forum) where people go to post their tips, or will it be a place where "the Top Flyer Community" will recognize tips made in the individual airline, hotel, car rental, etc. forums?

2. Watching the implementation of this will be interesting, to say the least. As an AA flyer, I know absolutely nothing about the Thai Airlines program or the Alatalia program. If I were presented with tips for each program, I would find it very difficult to appreciate more expert tips, but I could probably understand the most basic tips (the ones that all regular members of those forums know by heart). If the very basic tips are the ones that win, that will send a signal to the more expert members that their contributions are not valued, and will accellerate the trend of those members leaving for other sites, accelerating FT's march to be the go-to site for people who have never flown before. If the more expert tips are the ones that win, it seems to me that selection would be pretty arbitrary, because there would likely not be many members of the Top Flyer community that could appreciate the value of one vs. another. It seems like a difficult problem to me, and I will be interested to see if it can be solved.


1. Top Flyer is a separate part of this site. It is on the same domain. Just like FlyerTalk, the program will focus on frequent flyer and travel related subject matter.

2. The structure of Top Flyer is different in that it is an open format so participants are free to post their best tips, information, experience etc. Participants are also free to "like" any and all posts they find useful and or engaging. Your concern is valid, and is something we have thought through in creating this program. This is precisely one of the reasons why we are beginning with Beta rather than a full live launch.

A couple of quick questions:
1). Does the Top Flyer Program have anything to do with the previous recruitment of writers for FT (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12059345-post30.html)?

2). Do the "selected" Top Flyer Community have to review every single thread/tip posted on FT (without pay) then rank them every month? Or do you guys plan to have a contest type of games that Top Flyer Community only review & rank submitted tips?

If it's the former, I doubt how feasible it is.

3). Where will the Top Flyer Community be? A separate section/forum on FT or what? And how does Top Flyer Community interacts or works together with FT Community?

4). When 10 ranked users (assuming FTers?) claim their rewards every month, how will "the Top 10 Tips of the Month" be shared with FTers? Through TalkMail? In this "New Features" Forum? Or does IB plan to "publish" it somewhere else so both Amex and IB can benefit?

1) No, it is a completely different program. All of the content will be exclusively posted by FlyerTalkers.

2) As stated above, Top Flyer is a separate part of this site. It is on the same domain. The program simply rewards FlyerTalkers for essentially what they are already doing, sharing their knowledge and experience with other FlyerTalkers.

3) After Beta testing is complete and Top Flyer is launched to the public we plan on setting up a separate forum on FlyerTalk for open discussion of Top Flyer so as not to interrupt conversations in other forums.

4) The Flyertalkers participating in the Top Flyer community are the ones who decide who has the best, most useful content. We do plan on posting the top 10 Top Flyers on the Homepage, in TalkMail etc. so the whole FT community can benefit from their winning content.

Maybe this is a blonde moment, but if Top Flyer is a different site, aren't you basically 'mining' tips from FTers to make it viable & throwing out the carrot of a gift card to get folk to contribute, or did I miss something?

Cheers.

3) The program itself is on a separate site but after Beta testing is complete and Top Flyer is launched to the public we plan on setting up a separate forum for open discussion of Top Flyer so as not to interrupt conversations in other forums.
Let me make sure I understand you correctly.

You are saying the Top Flyer Beta is separate but will be a new forum on FT (possibly under the Community Section?) once it's officially launched?

Or are you saying Top Flyer is and will be a different site, say TopFlyer.com, but FT will have a dedicated forum to discuss TopFlyer once the site goes public?

if Top Flyer is a different site, aren't you basically 'mining' tips from FTers to make it viable & throwing out the carrot of a gift card to get folk to contribute, or did I miss something?
+1

Sounds like somebody got a nice check from AX. From what I could always tell Randy was an advocate of FTers when a vendor/supplier made policy changes he thought were unfair. Having a strategic alignment with AX would seem to cede 'editorial control' to a sponsor who has a separate agenda. Just my opinion.

I am wondering if signing up for an AA Cit MC or BA Chase Visa to get a 75k bonus would be a winning tip? How about booking through a Virtuoso agent to get free, added value amenities? :D

Maybe this is a blonde moment, but if Top Flyer is a different site, aren't you basically 'mining' tips from FTers to make it viable & throwing out the carrot of a gift card to get folk to contribute, or did I miss something?

Cheers.

For clarification: TopFlyer won't be a separate site. It's a separate part of this site. It is on the same domain.

It is also not a forum.

3) The program itself is on a separate site but after Beta testing is complete and Top Flyer is launched to the public we plan on setting up a separate forum for open discussion of Top Flyer so as not to interrupt conversations in other forums.

For clarification: TopFlyer won't be a separate site. It's a separate part of this site. It is on the same domain.

It is also not a forum.

Mom and Dad are telling us different stories and this kid is really confused. :p

So, which version of Top Flyer Program, Beta or not, is "more" accurate? Angel's or Dick's? Which one should I listen to? :confused:

Mom and Dad are telling us different stories and this kid is really confused. :p

So, which version of Top Flyer Program, Beta or not, is "more" accurate? Angel's or Dick's? Which one should I listen to? :confused:

Dick is correct. I apologize for any confusion. I amended my post.

2) The program simply rewards FlyerTalkers for essentially what they are already doing, sharing their knowledge and experience with other FlyerTalkers.

4) The Flyertalkers participating in the Top Flyer community are the ones who decide who has the best, most useful content. We do plan on posting the top 10 Top Flyers on the Homepage, in TalkMail etc. so the whole FT community can benefit from their winning content.

Why do FTers need a 'reward' to post tips & help out their fellow FTers? Kind of goes against the philosophy of FT & why it was created, or has IB not heard of 'pay it foward'? PIF does not require a reward, btw. ;)

Are you planning on posting the Top 10 of other forums? Why recognition on this one alone? Like others I'm a bit suspicious of the Amex tie-in, and quite frankly think it's more to the benefit of IB & Amex, with the ancillary being that it will help FTers.

If someone posts tips but aren't in the top 10, does that mean they don't have winning content or valuable content and are losers? Realize IB is new to FT, but the ratings game & like this thread didn't go over too well back when they were in place & caused a lot of controversy, to the point that ratings & liking a thread got shut down. Something to think about...

And as someone said to me in a PM you want to mine FTers for tips & all you're offering is a 'chance' at a measly $25 gift card or 5K points??? :p

Cheers.

Would it be purely speculative to assume that the payment might be applicable for US-resident members only?

It would be difficult, but perhaps not impossible, to get a well rated tip for something which doesn't apply to US carriers.

Would it be purely speculative to assume that the payment might be applicable for US-resident members only?

It would be difficult, but perhaps not impossible, to get a well rated tip for something which doesn't apply to US carriers.

You are correct. The Top Flyer program is open to legal residents of the fifty (50) United States and District of Columbia who are 21 years of age or older.

The Top Flyer program is open to legal residents of the fifty (50) United States and District of Columbia who are 21 years of age or older.

This sounds more like a contest now limited to a specific target group and not a quest to elicit the best travel tips from across FT. Besides not letting our members from outside the U.S. participate, you're not letting our U.S. members under 21 participate at all. Are their travel tips not as valuable as mine (I do meet the requirements for the target group)?

FlyerTalk is, and always has been, since Randy Petersen founded it, about inclusion, not exclusion. Everyone is welcome to FT events and on the forums of FlyerTalk.

That will not be welcome news to a sizable group of FT members. One of our New Zealand members is the most-traveled persons I've ever met on FT. He will not be allowed to participate.

Well, at least he can still contribute to FlyerTalk as long as you're not placing similar restrictions there.

The Top Flyer program is open to.... who are 21 years of age or older.
Do you know you already effectively exclude lucky9876coins, one of our savvy & expert FTers by this age cutoff "restriction?"

ps. I have no idea if lucky9876coins had or would volunteer(ed) to be a beta tester or not....

This sounds more like a contest now limited to a specific target group and not a quest to elicit the best travel tips from across FT. Besides not letting our members from outside the U.S. participate, you're not letting our U.S. members under 21 participate at all. Are their travel tips not as valuable as mine (I do meet the requirements for the target group)?

FlyerTalk is, and always has been, since Randy Petersen founded it, about inclusion, not exclusion. Everyone is welcome to FT events and on the forums of FlyerTalk.

That will not be welcome news to a sizable group of FT members. One of our New Zealand members is the most-traveled persons I've ever met on FT. He will not be allowed to participate.

Well, at least he can still contribute to FlyerTalk as long as you're not placing similar restrictions there.

Well said Tom.

And a HUGE :td: to IB for even suggesting this is something that's to benefit FTers when you exclude most from participating - or being eligible.

BTW IB, if you're throwing in exclusions & limitations such as has been mentioned, it does sound like it's more of a contest/sweeps, so I'm assuming if that's the case, you're checking to make sure you comply w/ all applicable US laws re: contests/sweeps. If not, attorney generals of states like to look into such things. ;)

But the bottom line is - the way this was presented & is being touted at the top of FT is totally misleading. And you need to amend your stickey/post w/ that info.

Cheers.

Is AMEX allowed to use/reuse (ie: advertising, it's own travel products) any posts in this Top Flyer thing?

OR anything we post on FlyerTalk for that matter? If so, can we "opt out"?

Is AMEX allowed to use/reuse (ie: advertising, it's own travel products) any posts in this Top Flyer thing?

OR anything we post on FlyerTalk for that matter? If so, can we "opt out"?

Am/Ex is required to gain specific consent from the original creator to repost or publicize any piece of content.

brent

Am/Ex is required to gain specific consent from the original creator to repost or publicize any piece of content.
(emphasis mine)

Who is the original creator? Is the original creator the same as the original poster?

Am/Ex is required to gain specific consent from the original creator to repost or publicize any piece of content.

brent

Well this is sounding less & less like it's for the benefit of FTers & more to the benefit of Amex or IB.

Cheers.

I wish that I could articulate why this makes me unhappy. It just does.

Well this is sounding less & less like it's for the benefit of FTers & more to the benefit of Amex or IB.

Cheers.

Upsetting.

Well this is sounding less & less like it's for the benefit of FTers & more to the benefit of Amex or IB.

Cheers.

Anyone with concerns about dubious intentions may abstain from playing. Our intent is to offer a new method of sharing knowledge that some users might find engaging. For those who don't find it engaging, your Flyertalk experience should remain mostly unaffected.

I assure you that there is nothing nefarious going on.

And you're also assuring us that you're not allowing a # of FTers to participate in this thing (no int'l, must be 21+) that is to the 'benefit of all'.

It's not that it's not engaging - it's a bit of false pretenses (understatement).

So when you have something that's to the benefit of all & is open to all, you'll probably get people willing to open up & share. Oh wait we already have something like that - it's called Flyertalk. And no contests required to enter.

IB's post # 1 is misleading & needs to be updated to mention that FTers outside of the US & younger than 21 are not allowed to participate. While it's fine (not really) cuz this is beta, it needs to be made perfectly clear if this thing formally launches that it's only for a subset of FTers.

Cheers.

The Top Flyer program is open to legal residents of the fifty (50) United States and District of Columbia who are 21 years of age or older.

I am considerably older than 21, but while I am an American citizen, I am neither a legal nor an illegal resident of the fifty (50) United States and District of Columbia.

Come to think of it, is it even legal to be a legal resident "of the fifty (50) United States and District of Columbia "? Don't you have to chose one of those 50 states or the district?

I did consider taking up residency in Alaska, but a guy named Tod refused to move out and allowing me to shack up with his wife, Sarah.

I can't understand his obstinacy -- after all, I offered to share the $25 gift card with him if I won.

Thank for the feedback on the gift card, I can't do too much about it immediately but I will take a hard look at it mid term.

brent

While I find the manner in which this program works to merely perpetuate the "good old boy club" which is as palpable here as it is at any mainstream american country club, I am a little surprised that you did not choose to rewards the FT member that made it to the top of the month's popularity contest with the most obvious token of appreciation... 10,000 - 20,000 miles/points in the program of the winners choice. I mean, a gift card is a nice neutral idea, but a $25 gift card doesn't even get close to "it's the thought that counts" territory.