US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Will you stay with UA post-merger?

Hey, everyone --

With the new news that AA will buy a piece of US, I'm of the opinion that the US-UA merger will now indeed go through. For those of us in the Baltimore-Washington market, this is actually somewhat good, since we'll have a choice between the #1 and #2 player rather than having to go "by default" to United.

So, there's the question -- I'm sure that a good many of you have given some very deep thought to the issue of "What do I do once my US Airways isn't around anymore?"

I really really do like how US Airways does business, and give them my business whenever I can. I'm also a PremEx on United, but only by circumstance -- the trips to Canada and parts of Europe where US doesn't go.

If I have a customer service problem with US, it almost always gets dealt with to my satisfaction. When I call the reservation lines, the agents are incredibly pleasant, with a good dose of mindless banter to make you smile. This all is counter to how United does business, and I just can't see myself being happy on UA in the long term.

The dilemma is this: do you just "suck it up" and go with the airline you're already allied with, hoping that your lifetime miles, etc. will all transfer over and that life on UA might not be as bad as you think once the US personnel are folded in, or do you look towards one of the other carriers as your new home?

I know I've started this thread with an anti-UA bent, but I'd really like to know what the "extended family" thinks about all this, and what you think your next step is going to be.

Thanks in advance!

This is a tough call. With the long haul 757 aircraft (and pilots) gooing to AA, it now appears USAirways is simply being stripped like a car for spares. If that's the case, those of us who have used transcon services regularly may find it isn't as convenient. CP's, like myself, who have enjoyed a 7 day upgrade window, will likely see that shrink in half. Most major airlines will match status for elites. This may be the time to make that move. The problem is, they are so nervous at US that the deal won't get approved (and their options bought) that nobody at US or UA will comment on what is going to happen. When it finally comes down with that inevitable "we've improved the program" letter, which goes on to tell you how much you've been screwed, there won't be a lot of time.

from an a/c point of view i think a lot of those 757's will be replaced by A321's over time. Also, once UA's own aircraft are folded into the mix the loss of 86 US aircraft shouldnt be to difficult to handle -especially with the ongoing addition of Airbus aircraft into the UA/US fleet.

As noted elsewhere - all of the aircraft will not be trnasferred to AA at once - rather it will be a gradual transfer. and UA retains the option of keeping some of the 757's if they need to.

Deelmakur fingerpoints a mayor problem.
Uncertainty makes it hard to have a strategy together. I probably will stay with the new carrier soley because it gives acess to the star alliance and I fly mostly in between Germany and the US and do only some domestic travelling from CMH to Florida and the West coast. But for soley domestic travel I dislike the poor ratio of first upgrades roughly half the value I get on US when you take into account you get 4 for only 500 miles instead of 8 to 10 for 750 miles. Going to the west coast that will be a great difference and I might have to buy upgrades.
On international flights so I might be able to upgrade on lower costing booking classes with miles and get into business easier and less restrivctive then at US. In terms of customer service and design I think United is much worse then US and that is why I might switch to AA. Anyway I would have preferred US joining a big alliance and staying independant. That would have been the best of both worlds. Only thing I really look forward is the world wide lounge acess for being Star alliance gold. But again right now I do not know if I should buy the US club membership or if in acouple of weeks the star alliance gold thing get me in at all international flights for free. I hat ethis uncertaint together whith 40.000 employees at US.
Yours eurousair

Originally posted by BWI Flyer:

Hey, everyone --

With the new news that AA will buy a piece of US, I'm of the opinion that the US-UA merger will now indeed go through. For those of us in the Baltimore-Washington market, this is actually somewhat good, since we'll have a choice between the #1 and #2 player rather than having to go "by default" to United.

So, there's the question -- I'm sure that a good many of you have given some very deep thought to the issue of "What do I do once my US Airways isn't around anymore?"

I really really do like how US Airways does business, and give them my business whenever I can. I'm also a PremEx on United, but only by circumstance -- the trips to Canada and parts of Europe where US doesn't go.

If I have a customer service problem with US, it almost always gets dealt with to my satisfaction. When I call the reservation lines, the agents are incredibly pleasant, with a good dose of mindless banter to make you smile. This all is counter to how United does business, and I just can't see myself being happy on UA in the long term.

The dilemma is this: do you just "suck it up" and go with the airline you're already allied with, hoping that your lifetime miles, etc. will all transfer over and that life on UA might not be as bad as you think once the US personnel are folded in, or do you look towards one of the other carriers as your new home?

I know I've started this thread with an anti-UA bent, but I'd really like to know what the "extended family" thinks about all this, and what you think your next step is going to be.

Thanks in advance!

I won't have much of a choice. I'm a US CP and live in Norfolk, VA. ORF is dominated by US with non-stops to about 8 cities, and they are mostly where I go on typical business - CLT, DCA, BWI, PHL, LGA, PIT, BOS, RDU. UA flies nonstop ORD and IAD from ORF. My company has corp contract with UA so if my travel it so a city where US does not provide nonstop service and I have to connect I usually on UA. So like I said, I won't have much choice. DL only goes ATL and CVG from ORF and AA only DFW, LGA (which I avoid like the plague, and BOS where i never need to be). CO to EWR and IAH.

Since I'm a sales guy with a region covering primarily the southeastern part of the US, MD south to FL and west to MS, and the corp off in Chicago I'm either on US or UA 99% of the time.

And let me tell you, UA and US are worlds apart in lots of ways. As any other CP will admit, the Dividend Miles Program for elite level flyers is 10x better than Mileage Plus for the equivilent level, 1K. I'm always upgraded on US and almost never on UA. That's just the beginning.

JFL

It's going to be a tough long road for all other PIT flyers like me.. stuck in a fortress hub is one thing, now to be stuck in a fortress hub with a terrible airline is a whole another thing.

Assuming the merger will go through (and I think it will just because Wolf and Gangwal will do ANYTHING for it) I'm happy with the turn of events with AA. That means I should be able to connect through STL on big jets rather than ORD on little jets and still stick with AA not to mention more beefier options at JFK.

Since I normally take short hops to the East Coast it's going to be REAL tough to justify connecting in ORD/STL, but I'm going to have to do it. Anything to avoid UA -- like when I flew to Calgary, Canada through Dallas rather than on UA.

The silver lining is my company's contract with AA is much much better and I might get an award or something for selfishless saving the company so much money, not to mention flying real cheap on AirTran, which is not good as most majors, but still better than UA. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

All comments above IMHO!

With all this talk of the merger going through… I am getting really nervous about the thought of dealing with UA and their lousy 1K FF program. Does anyone know what the CP status will be for 2001? And if UA will honor the CP Elite level offering or will it be like their 1K program - poor.

And doesn't UA have to honor existing customer loyalty programs (for 2 years) like the Dividend Miles for 2 years according to their contracts.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I like the deal now that AA will getting a share of the marketplace. However, I believe the UA/US merger will mean the death of cheap trans-con fares from BWI. Right now both UA and US are the only ones to offer direct, non-stops from BWI to many West Coast cities....they compete against each other as well as against Southwest although SW requires a connection to get to the West Coast. I don't believe the deal with AA includes much of anything out of BWI, so we will be down to UA only there. That means fares are going up.

BWI Flyer makes a minor but important observation - When you are CP with USAirways, you get the nice, chatty southern ladies in Winston-Salem for reservations. It's the old Piedmont crew. I'm sure United will find some way to piss all of them off. (Loss #1)

Now, down to the main issue - for us folks that make one of USAirways 'spokes' their home instead of a hub, our choices are very, very limited. In my location, I would either suffer with the new United, or go over to *gag* Delta's pathetic "Connection" consisting of ASA & ComAir, whch fly nothing but single-class sardine cans (50 seat CRJs).

By comparison, USAirways has a 8-slot schedule to Charlotte, with only 2 commuters, and 4 Airbus 319s! Seat 2C in one of those is a NICE way to start your Monday.

I seriously doubt American would start flying St.Louis to Myrtle Beach, but if they did, I'd take it no matter WHERE I was connecting to, just to get away from United. (American Airlines schedulers take note.)


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"You can never have too much Reverb."

Surfrider, welcome to Flyertalk! Yeah, I was surprised at the amount of big jets they fly to Myrtle Beach (I'm going there in two weeks).

I really wasn't looking forward to cramped RJs to ORD on AA, the STL option is great. If the US/UA merger goes through I hope all that works out and AA does keep STL as a decent sized hub.

Originally posted by BWI Flyer:
"What do I do once my US Airways isn't around anymore?"

The dilemma is this: do you just "suck it up" and go with the airline you're already allied with, hoping that your lifetime miles, etc. will all transfer over and that life on UA might not be as bad as you think once the US personnel are folded in, or do you look towards one of the other carriers as your new home? Wow, these are really good questions. First I am nearly positive that our Dividend Miles will turn into our Mileage Plus account.

Since the move to SEA last fall I have started flying UA for my jaunts up and down the west coast (SFO, LAX, SAN) and into IAD. I surprisingly racked up Premier status and haven't noticed a single thing different, except for Premier check-in.

I have decided to continue flying UA and will transition to them completely if the merger goes through. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Even if US is still around in it's current capacity, I plan on reaching Silver and then concentrating on UA's 1K. This was a tough decision b/c of the good fortune I have had with US (and am still having). But I am realizing that my party of SWUs and easy upgrades may be ending.

But to be honest, I am trying not to think of this. I still have this inkling of hope that US will remain on it's own feet and will come up with some mega-enhanced "intra- west coast" flight map just for chexfan, terenz and our SFO/LAX flyers.

UA operates two airlines: their 1K airline, and their airline for everyone else.

While US is great even if you are Gold.

But if you do stay, work to become 1K. It is so much better as a 1K that it turns a barely satisfactory experience into a good one. Premiers and PEs, esp. on the coasts, are as common as water, but 1K is who UA caters to.

If the AA purchase of some of US goes through especially the DC Air part, I intend to switch to AA, my next fav after US because I assume they will have a mileage program for my runs from RDU to DCA. I will avoid UA if at all possible.

UA operates two airlines: their 1K airline, and their airline for everyone else.

... and therein lies the problem.

I do remember quite vividly how UA treated me when I had no status whatsoever, after being used to being Gold on US for a while, until they finally comped me PremEx to match my US status.

While non-status members shouldn't obviously get the goodies that upper-tier members do, you still have to treat those people with respect... and it's something UA doesn't do. I had actually forgotten those couple of months, maybe blocking it out since it was so bad, but it was emblematic of what not to do with paying customers -- regardless of "rank." Things did get better once I had PremEx status, but it's still somehow different from the US experience. I guess we've been spoiled.

Richard, with that one sentence, you helped me make up my mind... seems like I'm off to AA. Better start reading the AA posts!

Man, after reading and consideration I am second guessing myself with the decision to head with UA.

Do I want to start from scratch with AA? Would it be worth it? I just don't like all those MD80s.

I could fly AS up and down the west coast and AA to the midwest, east, europe and asia.

I guess I need to do some more thinking and consideration. Any thoughts and help for a SEA based flyer would be appreciated. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

I am going to go do some research regarding AA's relationship with AS.

I think most people will find that we (UAL) are not NEARLY as dastardly as the people in the US Airways section of this message board are always screaming about!

For all the stories here about how awful UAL is, you can find other stories elsewhere about how great UAL is or how terrible US is.

OK I'll get out of the way now as people post their UAL horror stories-- but I am sure US has about the same proportion of horror stories...

And remember, as much as you as customers may not want this merger, I can tell you that we UAL employees want it even less. But I guess we will all have to deal with it somehow.

I think most people will find that we (UAL) are not NEARLY as dastardly as the people in the US Airways section of this message board are always screaming about!

For all the stories here about how awful UAL is, you can find other stories elsewhere about how great UAL is or how terrible US is.

OK I'll get out of the way now as people post their UAL horror stories-- but I am sure US has about the same proportion of horror stories...

And remember, as much as you as customers may not want this merger, I can tell you that we UAL employees want it even less. But I guess we will all have to deal with it somehow.

So, if the media the past two weeks are correct, Welcome to UAL! (And really, we are not THAT terrible! What an advertising slogan...)

Originally posted by Bear96:
And remember, as much as you as customers may not want this merger, I can tell you that we UAL employees want it even less. But I guess we will all have to deal with it somehow.

And you think that way of thinking and attitude is not going to reflect on how you treat the customers?

RZ

Bear96, you've GOT to be kidding me... you obviously don't work at Dulles!

I actually just got off a plane, RDU-CLT-IAD, and noticed another big difference between the two airlines. I actually saw two US pilots decline open seats in first class, telling the FAs to put passengers there if they could. Now, Bear96, you know as well as I do that UA pilots would have plunked themselves down in those seats -- I actually think they managed to negotiate that into their contracts. (Good union, but not the greatest move for PR!)

Arrzee makes the point best -- if you guys don't want the merger, that means you guys don't want us either. Going back to my original question, boy, has this decision just become miraculously easier.

(I guess down deep I knew AA -- or some other carrier besides UA -- was the solution all along, it's just the built-up half-million Dividend Miles and living in a heretofore-US-dominated market that made me want to think it through with all of you. Thanks for helping me out with this.)

United better come up with some incredible marketing ploy geared towards us higher-tier US flyers -- sooner rather than later -- especially since it's seems that we US passengers aren't "wanted." If they don't, you know AA and others will.

Amtrak, anyone? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

And tonight's top 10 list -- how pitflyer gets where he needs to go:

1) USAirways
2) Continental
3) American
4) AirTran
5) Car
6) Train
7) Bus
8) Walk
9) Don't Go
10) United

And Bear96 -- sorry http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif You sound like a real nice person and you're just a diamond in the rough. But there's plenty of us who've *had* bad experiences on United that do not compare to any bad experiences on USAirways. I mean, I've flown 300 flights on USAirways and had some doozies, but I flew 10 on United and every one was a doozy. (What the heck is a doozy anyway??? <Grin> )

AA is comping US Silver and Gold status: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum71/HTML/002314.html

PITflyer, I couldn't resist... direct from Merriam-Webster:


Main Entry: doo·zy
Variant(s): or doo·zie /'dü-zE/; also
doo·zer /-z&r/
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural doozies or doozers
Etymology: perhaps alteration of daisy
Date: 1916
: an extraordinary one of its kind


BTW, I liked how #9 and #10 ranked on your list... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

It's great to hear about AA comping US Status as a way of pre-empting United's grab for the 'best' customers. I'd go in a second...but...my problem, which I guess pitflyer didn't know about, is that AA simply dopesn;t fly to me from ANYWHERE. They oonly hit one city in all of South Carolina, GSP, which is 5 hours from here.

When they left their hub in RDU in the early 90's, they left Myrtle Beach and have yet to return. Unless they've got some plan to eat up some of USAirways routes here from Charlotte. Anyone know just WHAT pieces of USAir that American is getting, besides the NE Shuttle Routes (where I never go)?

Enjoying this intrigue, in a sort of odd way...

"I actually saw two US pilots decline open seats in first class, telling the FAs to put passengers there if they could. Now, Bear96, you know as well as I do that UA pilots would have plunked themselves down in those seats -- I actually think they managed to negotiate that into their contracts."

Yes that is correct, UAL signed a legally binding agreement with their pilots, and in that agreement UAL agreed to seat pilots in First Class when they are required by UAL to deadhead to/from work assignments. Surely you have some policies at your company as well that govern you when you are travelling as required by your employer.

"And you think that way of thinking and attitude is not going to reflect on how you treat the customers?"

"If you guys don't want the merger, that means you guys don't want us either."

That is quite a jump in logic. Are you suggesting that somehow we will be singling out the former US Airways customers and heaping even WORSE abuse on you than the normal amount of abuse we heap on our run-of-the-mill UAL customers (sarcasm here! since there seems to be a sense of humor lacking in this thread)? That doesn't really make sense. Unless we can make you wear armbands that say "UUUUUU" on them so we can identify you (a lame attempt at humor again).

Hey if y'all have made up your mind already that UAL is the epitome of evil, fine, that is certainly your perogative. I just think that often we get a bad rap because we are such a big huge fat target. Not that we are perfect; far from it, especially if you experienced us during this past summer. But conversely, I have had plenty of customers tell me how much better UAL is than US Airways. I have travelled a lot on other airlines myself, and on any given day you may hit a good day at that airline (weather, crew, on-time, check-in lines, quick baggage return, etc.) or a bad one. By many statistical rankings, US is right down there at the bottom with UA (and admittedly our record is pretty poor-- but so is US's). So sorry, I just don't buy that UAL is ALWAYS much worse than US.

Anyway, good luck wherever your future travels take you on whatever airline.

Bear96,
please do not take it personally but after reading on the United board for a while and comparing hard facts the US programm is just superior and US delivers constantly better service to its midelite FF than you do.
1) No other airline in the western world had ever had an operational summer like you had.
2) At United I will get 4 500 miles FC upgrades for every 10.000 miles compared to a current rate of 9 good for 799 miles with US. For a coast to coast that means insted of using six upgrades on US for the return I will have to use 10 on United.
3) I fly around 90 % of the time in First as a mid elite at US when flying domesticly. That seems to be a much higher rate than UA.
4)I can use Admirals clubs when flying international with my club membership and they let everyone use there showers. The RCC shower policies are unbelievable and besides few examples the RCC clubs are rated very low with FT at this boards. Even with real Star alliance freaks. The big US clubs and the Admirals clubs are very often nice, new and well designed. Love CLT with the rotunda and DFW with AA best lounge design and cool bar should get a price for its interior design.
5) Nasty people are working at any airline but my last attempt on a simple UA CMH to ORD hop was a desaster.
6) A 330 with video on demand and individual screens for coach people on transatlantic is top of the line.Nothing close on UA.
7) On US I can reedem unused north american upgrades as an international passenger for 2.000 miles a piece. So for one transatlantic flight 10.000 miles I can get an extra minimum 16.000 miles. On United I would get 4 times 500 a great prize of 2.000 miles. Over on year of typicall flying that makes up for a difference close to a free business class ticket equals 80.000 miles for me.
8) All the hype about Economy Plus. Most Gold Preferred and Chairmanns do not care we are used at riding in first most if not all of the time.
9) US has bent rules for loyal Gold members as well. You do not have to be on the 100.000 level to get a helping hand here and there like the coupon upgrade for domestic award travel if first is free at the departure time or the hotel room at a stormy day which was not legally there responsibility but they helped you out.
10) Two systemwides made up for a nice roundrip to from Europe to the US in Business. At UA no systemwides before 1K.
To make it clear I even see some bright spots in the merger like the star alliance benefits being able to use clubs worldwide from world leading airlines like LH, AC, SAS or SQ. But overall the fear of loss is very real if you look at the above numbers.


[This message has been edited by eurousair (edited 01-20-2001).]

I haven't sat in the back of the plane in 3 years, does anyone have any stats about the ease/difficulty of upgrading for CP level at AA or UA? I know that you can't do it 7 days in advance which stinks.
Also does anyone have an idea of when they would actually combine the programs if the merger get approval this spring. I would think that it would not be easy and might have to wait until 2002 (wishful thinking).
Thanks for any insight

Hey, Bear -- first, echoing the sentiments of others, NONE of this should be taken as a personal slam -- we're all just trying to have a discussion and think some things through "out loud," and a bit of polite contentiousness can be very constructive to that end.

The backdrop for all this for me is indeed the "summer from a very very very hot place," and it's obvious that even UA knew they messed up big-time by reducing the qualification requirements for all elite levels this year. You don't just cavalierly do that unless there's discontent amongst the ranks, or unless you're concerned that you're about to lose a big chunk of business.

As others have been doing, we've all been monitoring the UA FlyerTalk board as well -- and there's a big debate going on as to whether UA will somehow differentiate between "real 1Ks" and 1Ks who qualified under the lower requirement (84,000 miles this year).

Now, given that, I think you'll understand what you termed my "leap in thinking," because if your own loyalists are afraid of being cubby-holed differentially at the same elite level, what are all of us coming in "from the outside" supposed to think?

Maybe you were kidding about those armbands, but... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

So, having said all that, I applaud your efforts to defend United, Bear -- they're lucky to have someone like you who will go to bat for them -- and, if you have someone's ear on the UA MP end, just let them know that there's a whole bunch of loyal flyers who just need some answers, and it'd be great if those answers could come sooner rather than later.

<< stepping off soapbox >>

Maybe I'll voluntarily wear an armband -- USAirways 1K http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Bear, the bottom line is even if service was excellent at UA (which let's assume that every person that we meet at UA is like you) the program is way worse than USAirways program. The only way its better is that there are more destinations and more options.

However, most of US fliers are happy with where US goes right now (an alliance with UA or AA would have been OK with us, I think!) and our benefit level would be drastically reduced.

I had conversations matching up the same travelling pattern and the benefits given to a USAirways and Untied flier -- and the United flier went to about 50% upgrades vs 95% with the UA flier. See the thread
I feel sorry for the USAirways flier at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/002062.html

That's the bottom line -- we're accustomed to on-paper, easily verifiable benefits on USAirways; while on United the benefits are weak.

Thanks for dropping by our forum while it lasts, anyway http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by pitflyer (edited 01-20-2001).]

To give some anecdotal evidence, I've got a friend from college who, like me, is originally from Southern Californa but stayed on the east coast after graduation. He is from Oxnard; I'm from San Diego. He moved a place north of Baltimore (Aberdeen) - thus BWI. I live near D.C., hence DCA or IAD. He has stayed loyal to UA for years whereas I was originally raised on PSA, then AA; now US.

My upgrade success as a Silver Preferred has been in the range of 85% - 90% on all flights with F class. My friend, a Premier (whatever the lowest level elite level is) has had a success rate of about 20%. For the most part, out travels are similar in that we both make transcon flights three to four times a year.

So, from the upgrade perspective (clearly the most important benefit of VFF status), I have won hands down. That is why so many US FFs are not pleased with the prospectus of being merged into an already massive UA FF program.

[This message has been edited by ITRADE (edited 01-20-2001).]

As someone living in a fortress hub, I'm going to have to play the "wait and see" game post-merger. Even with AA (and possibly others) flying more nonstops, for most destinations, we'll still see having to connect to another airline's hub city. I guess I've gotten used to the convenience of a hub that I'd hate to give it up and connect everywhere (doesn't mean I've gotten used to the fares at a hub).

BWI flyer, I wrote about BWI on the board about the future of the A-330. YOu can read the full post there.

From talking with insiders at US (headquarters mgmt), SPECULATION, and I repeat, SPECULATION, is that BWI will not really be an integral part of UA's operation. WN has too big a stronghold. If you remember the days of BWI as a full US hub, you'll also remember how WN capitalized on the former USAIR's difficulties in the mid-90's and destroyed their BWI operation. BWI is, in my opinion, one of the better airports out there, except for a terrible lack of parking. However, UA will have hubs in IAD and PHL.

UA will have near-monopolistic control in so many markets within a few-hundred-mile radius of Baltimore....PHL, PIT, and IAD, just as an example. It makes me pause to think. Do they really want to compete with WN's $99-one-way-anywhere fares in BWI? WN really owns that airport now.

Some food for thought. Would love to hear form anyone with thoughts on this.

USAir realized BWI was one hub too many, and opted to develop PHL, which is why BWI has been relegated to an experiment in cut rate flying with MetroJet. With the DOJ already focused on concentration issues, UA won't move in, and having allowed LUV to gain the foothold they have, no full service (high cost) operator would be crazy enough to try and compete on price. That will change over time, as the need to take pressure off DCA and IAD increases, but as Herb continues to build it , and they come, it will be a real yield problem.

eurousair said in a response above (item 7) that "On US I can redeem unused NA upgrades as an international traveler for 2000 miles a piece." Can eurousair or someone else tell me more about that?