US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - A CP's Opinions of the New Transatlantic Upgrades

I'm sure that I am the only US Airways Preferred to not be happy about the new transatlantic upgrades, even though I've yet to receive mine.

I'm the Europe guy for my company, causing me to fly there a lot, usually two or three times a month. So I fly Envoy Class about twice a month, with the occasional trip on Delta's BizElite.

I prefer Envoy to BizElite. Let me explain why.

I've never been on a flight with a full cabin. Since everyone relaxing up front has paid with either a load of cash or a load of miles, there are no upgrades. I've never had the seat next to me occupied with the exception of the two trips I cashed in my miles, and my wife sat next to me. There are usually only twelve or so people. This means that the flight attendants can offer much better service and they are able to accomodate more special requests.

Take this example: On a redeye eastbound, the meal service typically begins about an hour or so into flight, usually a little later out of CLT due to more flying time. I was still pounding the keyboard on my laptop and needed about an extra hour or so to work. I could have had the express meal whenever I wanted, but I wanted the real meal. Problem was that I was in the middle of a project that I wanted to finish then. The FA was very accomodating and they served me a full meal after everyone else, even though it was much more work for them.

On my trips with Delta's BizElite I was one of a full cabin of fifty.

Special requests were hard to come by since there were so many passengers. I never would have been able to have a full multi-course meal long after everyone else.

Delta's BizElite is still an extraordinary product, as is Envoy. But I feel that Envoy has a special extra touch of personalized service.

I'm afraid that the new upgrades will open up the flood curtains and I'll be in just one of 24 and special requests and an empty seat next to me will be impossible to fulfill.

Now, I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be snobby or anything. I pay (well my company does) $6,000 or so for that seat and I enjoy an empty seat next to me and things like that.

But sometimes the cabins really are empty, so if they allow one or two that's ok. But, please, US Airways, don't allow twenty upgrades each flight!

CP

PS: I truly hope that US Airways works out a contract with their FAs. If they do go on strike, I hope they survive. Eastern never began operations again after that pilot strike. US Airways already has a lot of flyers who hate them from the old USAir days, and if they lose more customers, they're in trouble.

Hello,

I think your opinion is more of a 'Envoy-paid' flyer rather than as a Chairman's Preferred. I'm Chairman's Preferred too, and since my company will not pay for biz class to Europe, these upgrades are a lifeline. (However unfortunately the lowest fare will probably be on United --in coach, ouch-- so the ups really doesn't help for my business travel).

Your company choses to pay $6000 for the one seat you are in. USAirways gives you that seat for that fare. I think USAirways has the right to give away the seat next to you in order to ensure the loyalty of the rest of us -- I'm in the camp that believes upgrades are earned, not given. Hence, your company paid $6000 for the seat, but if I'm sitting next to you on an upgrade, it's repayment for my $35,000 worth of business that I could easily take somewhere else. And of course soon you can upgrade from your $6000 seat to the $12000 (?!?) seat in first class.

I'm somewhat surprised that USAirways gave every level of their elite program some sort of systemwide upgrade with their pack, and I don't like it either -- and that is as a greedy Chairman's Preferred -- since now Preferred Gold's and Preferred Silver's are now competing for the same seats more readily. C'est la vie; things change, and all that jazz.

Edited: I've heard employees talk about upgrading to envoy on b'boards, but since I've never been in it didn't know. Oh well... hopefully upgrades will come before employees.

[This message has been edited by dg1 (edited 03-07-2000).]

One thing for sure, that seat next to you won't be empty anymore. By the way, I flew Envoy back from Rome a few weeks ago, and the cabin was packed with employees. Two of them asked me to move out of my nice aisle seat so they could sit together, and I ended up sitting with a woman and a 14 month old. The F/A set up some kind of cardboard basinette on the floor, and I lost most of my legroom for 10 hours. I wouldn't pay real money for that kind of service again.

Please relax!
Flew Envoy yesterday and it was still a cabin with a lot of room only 14 of 24 seats were occupied and very personal service to anyone in it. Remember with 24 seats and three flight attendants even a full cabin does mean great service. Talking about the upgrades there will not be any opening of the floodgates. Besides the two systemwide upgrades upgrading still will be very restrictive because the lowest fare base you can upgrade from transatlantic will be a B class fare which at 1000 $ still comes well above the normal 400 to 700 $ price range from the east coast to europe when you can plan a little bit ahead. And also keep in mind that US Airways is still primarilly a domestic carrier and not all members will even use their systemwide upgrades to go Envoy and use them to go to the carribean or coast to coast instead. And as a last argument US Airways need some loyal flyers on the european side as well to expand their operation and for them this upgrades are just perfect incentive to keep them loyal and compete with the big boys. So that will enhance frequencys and destinations and choices for people like you where the company pays for Envoy.
So relax and be assured there will be no invasion of us upgraders and in case you take your wife with you even you might put a smile on the new upgrades.

[This message has been edited by eurousair (edited 03-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by eurousair (edited 03-07-2000).]

I'm trying not to sound greedy or selfish here.

Until recently, US Airways agreed with my ideas. Their policy was strictly no upgrades/non-revs to ensure exceptional service for paying passengers.

Now they are allowing upgrades. I'm sure this won't be a problem. But I'm afraid that it could turn into a UAL fiasco of all upgrades and making Envoy Class, Employee Class.

I'm sorry if you took my the wrong way, dg1. I realize that I pay for that one seat and that one seat only. But it was nice to know that US Airways cared so much for paying Envoy passengers that they make us the only ones that can enjoy it. Last year alone I spent (paid for by my company) approximately $160,000 with US Airways. This was money that I could choose to spend with Delta, AA, UA, CO, or any other line. US Airways realized that I generated lots of money for them.

You (dg1) say that giving up that seat next to me is a way to ensure loyalty for you that pay $35,000 in fares. Well, for me, saving that seat ensures the loyalty of me, who paid $160,000 in fares.

I realize that if I use the upgrades for a vacation to Europe, I'm sure I'll see the other side of the coin. This is like the Delta L-fare issue: if you are on a Y-fare flyer you love having less competition for the upgrades; if you are the L-fare flyer, you want a change at the upgrade.

It is all which side you are on. I'm already in Envoy, so I'm against others breaking in. You are not in envoy, so the upgrades are your lifeline to civilation. I guess US Airways found that there are way more of you than me, and I respect that.

The old no-upgrade policy was a way of US Airways thanking me for choosing them for my $160,000. They ensured me top-notch service. The service will still be great with the fuller cabins, though.

CP

There was a long thread which discussed which is more important, people who spend more or people who fly more. Obviously you are one of both and most valuable to USAirways. USAirways wants your money and your loyalty the most.

USAirways also wants people like me, who travel domestically and are also very loyal. We don't make quite as much money for USAirways, so I agree you are more important to them.

However, it keeps going down the pike like that, they also want people who are Preferred Gold who pay only full fare, etc.

I'm sure they have all sorts of yield models, etc. It's obvious they've annoyed you and people like you who pay and fly in Envoy regularly. The question is, how much will that change your flying pattern, how much will it affect their bottom line?

And in return, how much gain will they get in business from people like me, from people like eurousair, or even people who before didn't even consider USAirways as an option since they couldn't upgrade to business?

Only time will tell, of course. If they lose $1M in business from people who wanted to fly in an empty cabin like me, but gain $3M in business from people who fly less regularly or now made the choice to fly USAirways, like me or eurousair, it's a win for them. Maybe not for you, but for the business.

It's all in the bottom line... and btw I was not offended or angered nor did I think you were greedy or selfish; I understand your position completely. You are on the other side of the fence; you CAN pay for Envoy class tickets frequently. I can't. However, I feel similarly when I think about Preferred Gold/Silver's now getting these upgrades too; I'd rather only Chairman's Preferred got them, etc.

The bottom line is the 'club' is getting bigger -- after all, when they added segment qualification, that's what made me Chairman's Preferred. Then they are adding upgrades, which are giving more people access to the Envoy Club. I think we all like that USAirways is the little airline that could and we all are concerned this will change... we'll just have to wait and see.

I agree with DG1 your opinion is more that of a paying envoy passenger than that of a CP. Just think with all the miles you must have after 2 - 3 trips to Europe per month you will be able to upgrade to First (only 10,000 miles each way from a J fare) once the Airbus' start serving CLT. With only six seats up there the you should get even better service than the current envoy

I take frequent trips overseas out of Philadelphia and can tell you it has been a long time since I have seen an empty seat in Envoy in either PHL - CDG or PHL - FRA. Even before the upgrades starting being available the envoy cabins were always full on these routes.

I am also CP with over 200,000 status miles on US last year and I have no problem with the upgrades. I am fortunate enough that my company pays envoy for me so as long as there are seats for sale I could care less if the cabin is full.

I have always had great service in Envoy and I am sure it will continue to be just as good when the Airbus fleet arrives. I was talking to the FA's last week on CDG - PHL and they had just gone through training and couldn't stop raving about the plane and the service they will offer.

Just my opinion...

I hope it helps US stay in business. With lots of empty seats in Envoy, they can't be making the kind of money they need to on these routes assuming a good deal of coach passengers on discounted excursion tix.

I always resent paying, for instance, $2K for a transcon trip and ending up in coach because UA doesnt' have an upgrade available, with most people paying $400 for the "same" seat, and I see the upgrade point that you are making, CP, as the same side of the coin. If I were paying $6K per ride and spending that kind of money on the airline (and I will this year, or more) I'd expect the best most comfortable ride possible.

Does US recognize you in any other way as a super profit producer? Do you have special lounge privileges, special tix, special attention, like the WSJ article mentioned a few Fridays ago? Just curious...

I agree with dg1's post that US Airways has reviewed loyalty patterns, etc, and found that there are more people who fly domestic but want upgrades when they travel internationally, as opposed to those who do travel all in Envoy. So US Airways wants to please the larger group. Those are the people whose loyalty may be swayed to US Airways over a different airline because of the upgrades. US Airways might lose a lot of customers if this shutdown/CHAOS thing happens, but what's a better way to keep loyal customers than sending them upgrades right before!

Also keep in mind that these "systemwide" upgrades seem to be a one time deal. Only two per Preferred member. Once they are gone they are gone. I don't think they will be mailing them out with each statement. They don't seem to be so numerous as to really make a big difference on any particular flight. And, unlike other airlines where you can upgrade from any international fare with miles, US Airways has positioned itself so that only those travellers (biz travellers) who pay a higher coach fare will be able to upgrade. I have no problem with that. Seems like a good financial move to me.

I'm not sure I buy the "better service when the cabin is empty" theory either. I've been in full business class cabins on U as well as other carriers and I've been in nearly empty cabins also. The best service I've EVER experienced in business class was on a FULL 747-400... it is all in the way the flight attendents handle the situation. Given the number of seats on U's international Envoy service (24 on the 767 or 36 on the 330's when they come online) I don't think we will see too much diluting of the product.

Then again, I'm only a discount fare-paying Silver Preferred so I'm quite happy with the situation http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif. Having said that, I fully believe in the "pecking order." Full fare Envoy passengers should have first shot at seat selection, etc. Upgraded CP's, Golds, and Silvers next, in that order. And I think we will ALL agree that we don't want to see Envoy become Employee Class service a la United http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif.

cheers, and let's hope that 3/26 see us all in the air on US Airways and not stranded due to a strike.

Agreed, geo.

I don't think these things are being sent out in thresholds, like every 20,000 miles or something, so you only get two. Also, the US Airways website doesn't list these as a Preferred benefit, so this might be a one year only thing, I'm not sure.

Now that I've thought about it overnight, I guess it isn't that big of a deal at all.

CP