Not sure if this is the right place. Mods move if necessary.
Flying Blue has two subforums, one for KLM and one for Air France. I think Kenya Airways should now have it's own sub-forum. They are now a full Skyteam member with equal status as KL and AF. And they are in major expansion mode. Just this week they added Sydney and a multi-city codeshare agreement with Quantas. And today they added Rome. They are adding more than one route per month and have lots of planes on order.
I love KQ and I know several other Flyertalkers that do as well. They are becoming a very important world airline and I think it would be remiss if Flyertalk didn't recognize this as one of the top 2 airlines on the continent of Africa.
Efrem
Oct 19, 10, 7:24 am
You might want to check out this thread, entitled "What is the TalkBoard and How are New Forums and Other Suggestions Considered?" (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/918161-what-talkboard-how-new-forums-other-suggestions-considered.html) Its most applicable part is:
If you want to suggest a new forum or have other suggestions for TalkBoard consideration, it would be very helpful if you can demonstrate - with some supporting evidence - why you think there is a need for that new forum or other change to FlyerTalk.
This can be shown by, among other things, any or all of the following:
- existing threads which would be best suited in your proposed forum.
- describing a need which is not being met for a group of Flyertalk members by the existing forums.
- other relevant arguments showing why Flyertalk would be improved by the addition of this forum or change.You might also look at some of the recent discussions of proposed new forums, such as those for Aeroflot and Airlines of China, to get an idea of the sorts of questions that tend to be raised and the sorts of answers than work for or against a new forum. Much of the discussion often focuses on the number of existing threads that would, if the proposed forum existed, belong there and whether or not this would lead to an active forum. If your case hinges on rapid growth rather than historical FT interest, you might want to look at trends.
stimpy
Oct 19, 10, 10:04 am
I have two simple arguments for a new subforum.
One is accuracy. There are three full members of Flying Blue. AF, KL and KQ. That Flyertalk only has two of them listed is inaccurate.
The second point is one of activism. I know very well that Africa is not an important continent to America and thus people will not think that having a KQ forum is worth the effort. First I would say that there is a lot of interest in Africa both from tourism and increasingly business. Take a look at the Africa forum here and see that it has more threads than the India forum, Germany, Scandinavia, central America, Mexico, Caribbean, Argentina, etc. And there are a lot of discussion threads in the Africa forum about KQ and NBO that would be best hosted in a KQ forum. And I think that this forum, more than most other requests should be created in a "build it and they will come" fashion. Africa needs a helping hand from everyone. KQ is doing a lot on their own, but Flyertalk can help.
bhatnasx
Oct 19, 10, 11:09 am
I'd support a name change from "Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)" to Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, & Kenya Airways) - but I don't see the demonstrated need of a KQ subforum as there aren't that many posts on KQ.
That said, I don't have a problem with a KQ subforum as it's part of Flying Blue.
lin821
Oct 19, 10, 1:44 pm
Flying Blue has two subforums, one for KLM and one for Air France.
If I am not mistaken, KLM Forum and Air France Forum already exist before AF/KLM Joint Frequent Flyer Program (Flying Blue). Their "new"-subforum status was a "byproduct" from the merged program in 2005.
Logically speaking, if KQ had established its own forum back in 2005 on FT, it would have had a subforum under current Flying Blue Forum.
First I would say that there is a lot of interest in Africa both from tourism and increasingly business. Take a look at the Africa forum here and see that it has more threads than the India forum, Germany, Scandinavia, central America, Mexico, Caribbean, Argentina, etc. And there are a lot of discussion threads in the Africa forum about KQ and NBO that would be best hosted in a KQ forum.
From my reading of FT, Africa appears to be a popular destination.
FWIW, tourism discussion belongs to destination forum and we do have an Africa Forum to house those discussion. I believe the consensus of airport discussion is in destination fora as well.
You are correct that discussion about airlines should be placed under airline fora. I haven't visited Africa Forum enough to know if there are enough KQ threads that get mingled there. If so, you should alert MOD so those "misplaced" threads can get back to the right place.
I'd support a name change from "Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)" to Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, & Kenya Airways)
+1
I think a revision of forum title/description should be sufficient enough to give KQ's name back in Flying Blue Forum.
bhatnasx
Oct 19, 10, 11:37 pm
I've brought this up in the private TB forum for other member to consider. I think at the very least, the forum name should be changed to the following based on the info here - http://www.flyingbluenews.com/ - it appears FB covers other airlines too.
Flying Blue (AirEuropa, Air France, Kenya Airways, KLM, Tarom)
Markie
Oct 20, 10, 12:20 am
I am in favour of:
- Making it clearer that FB covers multiple airlines
- Adding a sub-forum for the non-KL/AF airlines where the posts for these airlines can be found
- Looking at Miles and More to see if it needs simplification.
stimpy
Oct 20, 10, 2:41 am
Adding a sub-forum for the non-KL/AF airlines where the posts for these airlines can be found
Now that is a good idea. KQ may not be enough on it's own (I think it will be eventually) but together with Tarom and Air Europa it would be.
The main FB forum should be for discussing global FB issues.
NickB
Oct 20, 10, 10:49 am
Now that is a good idea. KQ may not be enough on it's own (I think it will be eventually) but together with Tarom and Air Europa it would be.
The main FB forum should be for discussing global FB issues.I agree. This is a very sensible approach. The issue is rather different from ordinary self-standing fora. In so far as FB does cover airlines other than AF and KL, it does make sense to have other FB airlines in a sub-forum, even if the level of activity and posts is lower than would normally be expected for a self-standing forum.
bhatnasx
Oct 20, 10, 11:29 am
I am in favour of:
- Making it clearer that FB covers multiple airlines
- Adding a sub-forum for the non-KL/AF airlines where the posts for these airlines can be found
- Looking at Miles and More to see if it needs simplification.
This makes sense to me as well. ^
Efrem
Oct 20, 10, 4:16 pm
I am in favour of:
...
- Looking at Miles and More to see if it needs simplification.Slightly OT for a thread on KQ, but since you mention it: I'd hold off on this until there's a bit more information on the fate of BD's Diamond Club. Might affect what's done. The relevant time unit seems to be months, not years. (Probably not weeks, either.)
bschaff1
Oct 20, 10, 6:22 pm
Sub-forum at best is all KQ deserves IMO. There are only two other airlines with as small of fleets as KQ that have forums, but they have their own FF programs. Plus KQ can barely keep a schedule with their long haul flights to Asia.
stimpy
Oct 20, 10, 10:28 pm
There are only two other airlines with as small of fleets as KQ that have forums, but they have their own FF programs. Plus KQ can barely keep a schedule with their long haul flights to Asia.
I read that Boeing are way behind on their deliveries to KQ. Their fleet should be a good bit larger by the end of 2011.
jackal
Oct 21, 10, 1:40 pm
I am in favour of:
- Making it clearer that FB covers multiple airlines
- Adding a sub-forum for the non-KL/AF airlines where the posts for these airlines can be found
- Looking at Miles and More to see if it needs simplification.
I am inclined to agree with this as well.
I believe the forum structure should make it easier to find and discuss a given topic. If the forum structure is inhibiting that by splitting up posts among different places or driving the membership to post topics in places it maybe wasn't designed for, then the forum structure needs to be reevaluated.
It appears that's happening here. Discussion about KQ is happening at least in part in the main FB forum, which is probably better reserved for global FB topics. Additionally, it's not intuitive to search for topics about KQ in that forum, especially since it's lacking any acknowledgment in the forum title that it should be discussed there.
A dedicated KQ subforum might be a touch overkill at this point (though as always, I am not ideologically opposed to the creation of new forums), so Markie's suggestion seems to be a great, creative way to address this issue.
Henry III
Oct 23, 10, 3:05 pm
I am in favour of:
- Making it clearer that FB covers multiple airlines
- Adding a sub-forum for the non-KL/AF airlines where the posts for these airlines can be found- Looking at Miles and More to see if it needs simplification.
I'd definitely support this idea; in fact, I recently did: Discussion in the FB Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/flying-blue-air-france-klm/1111027-subforum-other-fb-airlines.html); and I also know that stimply (and others) have also raised the idea in that forum.
Some of the points raised there certainly clarified the situation in my mind as to what the "Judgement Criteria" may be; and - perhaps rather light-heartedly - also shed light on the decision-making process.
Also, to add weight to the argument for a combined KQ+UX+RO sub-forum, remember that RO once did have its own forum.
Perhaps the FB Tribe should submit a Pro-SubForum candidate in the upcoming TalkBoard election.
-- Henry
Mynameismud
Oct 24, 10, 2:41 am
Another vote for a KQ/RO/SB/UX/VG Flying Blue subforum
NickB
Oct 24, 10, 3:07 am
Also, to add weight to the argument for a combined KQ+UX+RO sub-forum, remember that RO once did have its own forum.Do you refer to the really old days when FT was organised differently? If so, is this not equivalent to saying that Egypt and Lybia should be regarded as part of Europe because there were once part of the Roman empire? :) That said, I agree that the case is strong even though I would not regard that particular argument as especially persuasive.
Kiwi Flyer
Oct 24, 10, 3:54 pm
Slightly OT for a thread on KQ, but since you mention it: I'd hold off on this until there's a bit more information on the fate of BD's Diamond Club. Might affect what's done. The relevant time unit seems to be months, not years. (Probably not weeks, either.)
The main Miles & More forum already covers lots of airlines even before BD joins. Only LX has it's own sub-forum.
Gajan
Oct 25, 10, 3:00 pm
I would suggest an extra sub-forum for all other airlines that have Flying Blue as their Frequent Flyer programme. This would include Kenya Airways, Tarom, Air Calin, Air Europe and the other airlines that may adopt Flying Blue as their frequent flyer programme in the future. This would ensure all questions (slightly) related to Flying Blue are all organised in one place.
Gajan
JOUY31
Oct 26, 10, 2:54 am
I would suggest:
- renaming the main forum to "Flying Blue (Air France, KLM & partner airlines)"
- creating a sub-forum called "Air Calin, Air Europa, Kenya Airways, Tarom & other partner airlines)
I would also suggest not including franchise carriers or subsidiairies such as Airlinair, Britair, Cityjet, Regional, VLM ... in the title, nor carriers with no link to the FFP such as Transavia.
GenevaFlyer
Oct 26, 10, 3:00 am
I would suggest:
- renaming the main forum to "Flying Blue (Air France, KLM & partner airlines)"
- creating a sub-forum called "Air Calin, Air Europa, Kenya Airways, Tarom & other partner airlines)
I would also suggest not including franchise carriers or subsidiairies such as Airlinair, Britair, Cityjet, Regional, VLM ... in the title, nor carriers with no link to the FFP such as Transavia.
Don't forget Baboo, which is now a FB partner as well.
Cheers,
GenevaFlyer
JOUY31
Oct 26, 10, 3:12 am
Don't forget Baboo, which is now a FB partner as well.
Cheers,
GenevaFlyer
You're absolutely right :). Sorry about that omission.
stimpy
Oct 26, 10, 3:31 am
I would also suggest not including franchise carriers or subsidiairies such as Airlinair, Britair, Cityjet, Regional, VLM ... in the title, nor carriers with no link to the FFP such as Transavia.
I think we already, for a few years now, have been discussing Britair in the AF forum and VLM in the KLM forum, right?
JOUY31
Oct 26, 10, 8:33 am
I think we already, for a few years now, have been discussing Britair in the AF forum and VLM in the KLM forum, right?
Yes, but there is no need to put them in any title, whether forum or subforum, IMHO.
stimpy
Oct 26, 10, 8:37 am
Right, what I meant is that we should continue to discuss them in their respective parent forums. They are not FB airlines, even if they may earn FB miles with the AF or KL codeshare.
JOUY31
Oct 26, 10, 9:14 am
Right, what I meant is that we should continue to discuss them in their respective parent forums.
Right :).
Henry III
Oct 26, 10, 9:33 am
I'm more than a bit confused about VLM:
I thought they converted their FFP ("Velocity," I think it was called) to FB sometime in 2009; :confused:
I'm not actually sure that VLM, as a company, actually exists any more (since the buy-out by AFKL): at LCY, I've seen references to "CityJet Netherlands" for the flights that used to be VLM and, when I try to book a VG flight on KLM.com, I get the information, "Operated by CityJet d.b.a. VLM" :confused::confused:
-- Henry
JOUY31
Oct 26, 10, 11:20 am
I'm more than a bit confused about VLM:
I thought they converted their FFP ("Velocity," I think it was called) to FB sometime in 2009; :confused:
I'm not actually sure that VLM, as a company, actually exists any more (since the buy-out by AFKL): at LCY, I've seen references to "CityJet Netherlands" for the flights that used to be VLM and, when I try to book a VG flight on KLM.com, I get the information, "Operated by CityJet d.b.a. VLM" :confused::confused:
-- Henry
VLM is now part of Cityjet.
skywalkerLAX
Oct 28, 10, 2:40 pm
I'd support a name change from "Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)" to Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, & Kenya Airways) - but I don't see the demonstrated need of a KQ subforum as there aren't that many posts on KQ.
I think that would be a reasonable choice & change to go for.
A KQ subforum however would be a bit over the top. After all: What frequency does KQ have over there (and route network in general)!?
stimpy
Oct 28, 10, 9:41 pm
After all: What frequency does KQ have over there (and route network in general)!?
Quite a large and quickly growing network. See http://www.kenya-airways.com/home/information_and_services/plan_your_trip/destinations/route_map/default.aspx
In addition to the new Rome and Sydney routes, you have....