Korea - Is North Korea still an exotic destination?

As I finished up my weeklong tour of North Korea a few days ago, I couldn't help but compare my experience to the articles and posts I've read about the country: The country is, by reputation, very difficult to get into (in terms of visas and the logistics of physically going), with only a handful of visitors coming each year--I've heard 4,000 being batted around. When I told my friends about the trip I was planning, their reaction was almost always one of amazement.

Here was the sum total of the efforts required for me to take this trip:

Transfer about 1,400 euros to the "travel agent."
Pick up my visa from the North Korean embassy in west London (which involved filling out a simple form and paying 10 pounds to the consular officer, who was very polite and spoke great English).
Get a Chinese visa (which you don't even need if you're just quickly transiting China).
Book a flight to Beijing.
Check in at Air Koryo's counter at the airport, where my e-ticket was waiting for me.

Immigration and customs at FNJ were a piece of cake, then step out of the airport and onto the tour bus and all your needs are taken care of for the next week, until you get on the train headed out to China.

During my time there I frequently saw another busload or two of tourists, plus various small/private groups. Our guides said they handle something like 20,000 people per year.

Okay, so Pyongyang isn't exactly a weekend trip to Paris. But once you work up the guts to actually go, the preparation required is slim compared to, say, a weeklong trek through any part of Africa.

So does North Korea really deserve its reputation as an exotic destination almost nobody's seen, the trump card in the "what countries have you been to" game? I'm not doubting the country used to have this status. But now?

Those of you who have visited North Korea, or maybe just fantasized about it, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

How much time did you get to spend there exploring on your own outside your tour group?

I absolutely think it still is exactly because of the 'guts to go' part. I actually think North Korea is a very safe place to visit, much safer than say, South Africa, but noone will bat an eye lid when you say you're going to South Africa.

How much time did you get to spend there exploring on your own outside your tour group?

Almost none. Along with our group of 19 we had two guides, a driver, and some guy who just sat in the back keeping an eye out on us. Any time someone tried to wander off we would be stopped. The one place we could walk around in relative freedom was our hotel in Pyongyang, which was on an island in the middle of the river running through the city.

At one hotel with a courtyard and a surrounding wall, the doors to the outside were actually padlocked shut at night.

This of course makes the tour different from other tours--it leaves huge parts of the country, or even the locality you're in that day, off-limits. So I can definitely respect people who manage to travel around without a guide, such as this guy (http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/) who arrived in Pyongyang by train via Vladivostok (supposedly not open to foreigners) instead of by flight or the regular train via Dandong.

If you look at North Korea travelogues on the internet, you'll notice most of the pictures are of the same sites. Pretty much everyone takes the same itinerary, even on a private trip, unless you have something you're specifically interested in (for example, Buddhist temples).

I absolutely think it still is exactly because of the 'guts to go' part. I actually think North Korea is a very safe place to visit, much safer than say, South Africa, but noone will bat an eye lid when you say you're going to South Africa.

I agree completely that it's a safe place. Most locals are afraid to even look you in the eye so there's absolutely nothing to worry about in terms of pickpockets, touts, scammers, or other typical travel hassles. Made the trip very pleasant in that regard.

I'm always envious/respectful of people who've been to North Korea, it's certainly exotic to me more so for the guarded nature of the country as opposed to real world difficulties getting in. I'd love to know more about what you saw, were allowed to see and the people you interacted with. I've wanted to go for a while and even thought about hopping over on my most recent trip to China but decided against it... I'm of Indian descent but born in the UK and have plenty of Middle Eastern stamps in my passport so US Immigration already gives me a horrid time

I'm fascinated by the isolationist nature of the country, I'd love to be there and experience what it's like to live in this cocoon along with the cult of personality about 'Our dear leader'

I know somebody who went and said the Russian plane they flew in was ramshackle at best and he had certain items confiscated like electronics and pictures. Some were returned upon leaving but the pictures were deleted if they were not agreeable, this however was many years ago

Please follow as the thread moves to our Travel->Asia forum. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator, TravelBuzz.

I'm always envious/respectful of people who've been to North Korea, it's certainly exotic to me more so for the guarded nature of the country as opposed to real world difficulties getting in. I'd love to know more about what you saw, were allowed to see and the people you interacted with. I've wanted to go for a while and even thought about hopping over on my most recent trip to China but decided against it... I'm of Indian descent but born in the UK and have plenty of Middle Eastern stamps in my passport so US Immigration already gives me a horrid time

I'm fascinated by the isolationist nature of the country, I'd love to be there and experience what it's like to live in this cocoon along with the cult of personality about 'Our dear leader'

I know somebody who went and said the Russian plane they flew in was ramshackle at best and he had certain items confiscated like electronics and pictures. Some were returned upon leaving but the pictures were deleted if they were not agreeable, this however was many years ago

Getting around the stamp thing is easy. If you pick up your visa in Beijing it comes on a separate sheet of paper (i.e., not a sticker in your passport), and then they stamp your entry on that sheet of paper. Then they take the sheet of paper away when you exit, leaving no evidence of your having been there.

(If you get your visa in advance, like I did at the embassy in London, they will put a sticker visa in your passport--if they maintain diplomatic relations with your country.)

Stuff I saw seems to be almost exactly the same everyone else sees, unless you go on a specialized private tour (and even then some things appear to be "mandatory"). The biggest barrier to speaking with the locals is that they don't speak English. For the most part it's difficult to get physically near any locals, but it does happen.

There was a certain thrill in seeing things that we weren't supposed to see, like some of the particularly vicious propaganda on the "hidden" fifth floor of our hotel in Pyongyang.

Ohh, and the plane--seemed like a perfectly modern jet. Possibly it wasn't one of the old Tupolovs. In any case, my flight was one of three leaving each within a half an hour of each other. Every flight was full of North Koreans, nearly all in a suit and tie, with just a handful of tourists here and there.

Cell phones and passports are still held for safekeeping upon arrival and not returned until departure, and a customs official still looks through your pictures and makes you delete objectionable ones--but this is incredibly easy to get around nowadays since they allow laptops to come into the country.

Something else I found interesting--they have a mobile phone network in the country now. Our guides had mobiles and I saw quite a few people in Pyongyang with them as well. My understanding is that you need a special license for a phone, and I'd doubt they can dial internationally.

Any more questions, please feel free to ask as this is one trip I really enjoy talking about.

Having been twice, I still think it's the most exotic place on earth to visit. I've been to more than 60 countries, and none were like the DPRK. The culture, people, food, customs... I think you'd only be less that wowed if you are steeped in Korean culture already.

'Guts to go' really should not be a factor. If you're going legally (on a tour group or pre-arranged 'independent' travel) you will be fine. Short of committing a major crime the worst they'll do is ship you out of the country back to China.

I haven't been to North Korea. I've seen a few people's slide shows from their trips and some travel documentaries.

Based on my travels, I get the impression that North Korea, to some extent, can be viewed as a combination of:
- Almaty, Bishkek, other large ex-Soviet capital cities: Communist architecture
- Turkmenistan (during the time of Turkmenbashi): cult of personality
- Turkmenistan and Burma: you have minders, who escort you everywhere
- Various mideast and southeast Asian cities: half-finished buildings
- South Korea: culture

This of course makes the tour different from other tours--it leaves huge parts of the country, or even the locality you're in that day, off-limits. So I can definitely respect people who manage to travel around without a guide, such as this guy (http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/) who arrived in Pyongyang by train via Vladivostok (supposedly not open to foreigners) instead of by flight or the regular train via Dandong.

If you look at North Korea travelogues on the internet, you'll notice most of the pictures are of the same sites. Pretty much everyone takes the same itinerary, even on a private trip, unless you have something you're specifically interested in (for example, Buddhist temples).



Thanks for linking to that report of the guy who took the non-traditional train entry - I really enjoy reading TR's and travelogues of visits to North Korea, and hadn't come across that one before - because of the uniqueness of the itinerary (and the many excellent pictures provided), I'd say that TR is probably the best one Ive ever read about a trip to NK....

Wow that was very nicely done... I can't believe I just spent over a hour reading the blog.

Based on my travels, I get the impression that North Korea, to some extent, can be viewed as a combination of:
- Almaty, Bishkek, other large ex-Soviet capital cities: Communist architecture
- Turkmenistan (during the time of Turkmenbashi): cult of personality
- Turkmenistan and Burma: you have minders, who escort you everywhere
- Various mideast and southeast Asian cities: half-finished buildings
- South Korea: culture
Have you visited any of these places? There are no minders in Burma, South Korean culture these days is pretty much orthogonal to North Korea's, and Pyongyang's solitary famous unfinished building (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel) is, in fact, currently under heavy construction again.

Have you visited any of these places? There are no minders in Burma, South Korean culture these days is pretty much orthogonal to North Korea's, and Pyongyang's solitary famous unfinished building (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel) is, in fact, currently under heavy construction again.

That's right. When I was last in Pyongyang (September 2009) Orascom was hard at work on the exterior of the giant Ryugong Hotel. Can't wait to see it finished (and hopefully stay there one day when it's a Westin).

That's right. When I was last in Pyongyang (September 2009) Orascom was hard at work on the exterior of the giant Ryugong Hotel. Can't wait to see it finished (and hopefully stay there one day when it's a Westin).

Orascom's definitely got the cell network up and running. The junior minder had a cell phone which she was able to use even in areas outside of Pyongyang, and quite a few times I saw shopkeepers with mobiles as well. Little signs of modernization like that, and working to finish the tallest unfinished building in the world, seem like signs of modernization. I also saw a small handful of actual advertisement billboards (as opposed to propaganda), all for what looked like a car dealership. Our guide mentioned that this was the only advertisement currently up. Add the commercial activities in the basement of the Yangakkdo Hotel... it seems like some form of (un)free enterprise is going on. At least, if you're a foreigner you can do business in North Korea.

Between the train blog and my experience, I've come to this conclusion: Outside of the world that's involved in tourism, nobody in North Korea knows that you're not supposed to be walking around unsupervised. So once you make it out of the "perimeter" you can pretty much do what you want. I took a few "walks" while I was there, and while I got a few strange looks on the street I was largely ignored.

(Caveat: Someone noticed, I think a guide on a tour bus that passed me by, and told my guide, who then had a little chat with me...)

Having been twice, I still think it's the most exotic place on earth to visit. I've been to more than 60 countries, and none were like the DPRK. The culture, people, food, customs... I think you'd only be less that wowed if you are steeped in Korean culture already.

'Guts to go' really should not be a factor. If you're going legally (on a tour group or pre-arranged 'independent' travel) you will be fine. Short of committing a major crime the worst they'll do is ship you out of the country back to China.

That sounds cool. Its on my books for 2012 so I hope that pans out!

Which tour company did you use?

That sounds cool. Its on my books for 2012 so I hope that pans out!

Which tour company did you use?

2012 is the year to go! I'm not terribly inclined to go a third time, just because there are so many other places in the world I want to go, but it's a big year. I forget exactly why... hundred year anniversary of the Korean Workers Party, maybe? Or 100 years since the birth of Kim Il-Sung? Something huge like that.

And the Ryugong might actually be finished and accepting guests by then.

I used Koryo Tours. I highly recommend them as they not only know their stuff but have great contacts in the country. I recommend choosing a tour that has a Koryo guide with you the whole time. Little more expensive, but well worth it.

That sounds cool. Its on my books for 2012 so I hope that pans out!

Which tour company did you use?

2012 is the 100th birthday of Kim Il Sung. Our guides told us that it would definitely be a good time to go back--military parades and celebrations even bigger than what I saw when I was there a few weeks ago. Note that you may not actually get to see any of this stuff; despite our repeated requests we were actually sequestered in the hotel for most of that day, and ended up seeing the military parade on TV. (Unlike the BBC's brief report on it, we got to see the whole thing from start to finish on the local TV. Quite impressive.)

Unless you're going on a tour where a western guide is coming along, my advice would be to find the cheapest possible tour. This is because once you get into North Korea everything's fairly standardized--as I've mentioned before everyone sees the same things, stays in the same hotels, gets the same local guides. There's not really much room for the tour company to actually add much value. Maybe if it were logistically difficult to get into the country it'd be different, but as people have said it's not that hard to actually get in once you find the guts to go.

For what it's worth, I used Korea Konsult, a one-man show based in Sweden. There were some logistical things which I would've expected a specialist agency to know, but she didn't. (Example: You don't really need to get a double-entry visa to China in advance. As long as you're transiting through China and spending less than 24 hours there, no visa is required. So if you live somewhere where Chinese visas are expensive and a hassle to get, such as England, just transit on the way to North Korea and then pay 75 euros to get a Chinese visa in Pyongyang.)

Also: A minor consideration for choosing a tour company is the kind of people you want to surround yourself with. On my tour, a good half were Scandinavian. You can get very cheap tours out of Dandong, but everyone on the bus will speak Chinese except for you and the English-speaking guide assigned to you. There's a Spanish tour company out there, and you'd likely end up with a bunch of Spaniards on that trip.

Good to know, Thanks!

2012 is the 100th birthday of Kim Il Sung. Our guides told us that it would definitely be a good time to go back--military parades and celebrations even bigger than what I saw when I was there a few weeks ago. Note that you may not actually get to see any of this stuff; despite our repeated requests we were actually sequestered in the hotel for most of that day, and ended up seeing the military parade on TV. (Unlike the BBC's brief report on it, we got to see the whole thing from start to finish on the local TV. Quite impressive.)

Unless you're going on a tour where a western guide is coming along, my advice would be to find the cheapest possible tour. This is because once you get into North Korea everything's fairly standardized--as I've mentioned before everyone sees the same things, stays in the same hotels, gets the same local guides. There's not really much room for the tour company to actually add much value. Maybe if it were logistically difficult to get into the country it'd be different, but as people have said it's not that hard to actually get in once you find the guts to go.

For what it's worth, I used Korea Konsult, a one-man show based in Sweden. There were some logistical things which I would've expected a specialist agency to know, but she didn't. (Example: You don't really need to get a double-entry visa to China in advance. As long as you're transiting through China and spending less than 24 hours there, no visa is required. So if you live somewhere where Chinese visas are expensive and a hassle to get, such as England, just transit on the way to North Korea and then pay 75 euros to get a Chinese visa in Pyongyang.)

Also: A minor consideration for choosing a tour company is the kind of people you want to surround yourself with. On my tour, a good half were Scandinavian. You can get very cheap tours out of Dandong, but everyone on the bus will speak Chinese except for you and the English-speaking guide assigned to you. There's a Spanish tour company out there, and you'd likely end up with a bunch of Spaniards on that trip.

Getting around the stamp thing is easy. If you pick up your visa in Beijing it comes on a separate sheet of paper (i.e., not a sticker in your passport), and then they stamp your entry on that sheet of paper. Then they take the sheet of paper away when you exit, leaving no evidence of your having been there.

(If you get your visa in advance, like I did at the embassy in London, they will put a sticker visa in your passport--if they maintain diplomatic relations with your country.)

Stuff I saw seems to be almost exactly the same everyone else sees, unless you go on a specialized private tour (and even then some things appear to be "mandatory"). The biggest barrier to speaking with the locals is that they don't speak English. For the most part it's difficult to get physically near any locals, but it does happen.

There was a certain thrill in seeing things that we weren't supposed to see, like some of the particularly vicious propaganda on the "hidden" fifth floor of our hotel in Pyongyang.

Ohh, and the plane--seemed like a perfectly modern jet. Possibly it wasn't one of the old Tupolovs. In any case, my flight was one of three leaving each within a half an hour of each other. Every flight was full of North Koreans, nearly all in a suit and tie, with just a handful of tourists here and there.

Cell phones and passports are still held for safekeeping upon arrival and not returned until departure, and a customs official still looks through your pictures and makes you delete objectionable ones--but this is incredibly easy to get around nowadays since they allow laptops to come into the country.

Something else I found interesting--they have a mobile phone network in the country now. Our guides had mobiles and I saw quite a few people in Pyongyang with them as well. My understanding is that you need a special license for a phone, and I'd doubt they can dial internationally.

Any more questions, please feel free to ask as this is one trip I really enjoy talking about.

How were the more mundane aspects of the trip--e.g., the hotel rooms, the food, the service, any other amenities?

And not to turn this into a political discussion, but was it at all strange being taken around to see only carefully selected sites in a country where there is arguably more repression than any other society on earth?

How were the more mundane aspects of the trip--e.g., the hotel rooms, the food, the service, any other amenities?

And not to turn this into a political discussion, but was it at all strange being taken around to see only carefully selected sites in a country where there is arguably more repression than any other society on earth?

Hotel rooms were of a reasonable quality--think a Holiday Inn that's due for a refurbishment. Rooms were all two single beds, with TVs--in the Yangakkdo Hotel in Pyongyang (where we spent most of our time) the TVs had outside channels including the BBC. One hotel (the "folk hotel" in Kaesong) was sorta crap. Brief power cuts happened from time to time outside of Pyongyang, and outside of Pyongyang there was only hot water for showers for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening.

The Yangakkdo is clearly designed with sequestered travelers in mind, as it has a number of restaurants, a bar, sketchy casino, Korean and Chinese massages, spa-like facility, bowling alley, karaoke room... it's a strange place with some 40ish floors, with quality of the floor varying depending on whether it's meant for foreigners or locals (the rooms for locals, from what I understand, don't get outside TV channels). There's plenty to explore, including a "secret" floor with what seems to be particularly vicious propaganda painted onto the walls.

Food was highly variable in quality. Most stuff was lightly fried, and had an odd aftertaste of dirt. Overall though much better than I was expecting. There were always a number of things to choose from, including a ubiquitous dish I call "non-chicken meat in a glutinous mass."

Ohh--oddly enough, the beer was incredibly good. Who'da thunk it.

No complaints about service. The tour guides took care of everything that could be needed, and if for whatever strange security reason they weren't willing to do something, it was generally made clear that was the case.

Amenities... normal stuff you'd find in a hotel like overpriced laundry. DHL service out of the hotel. No internet access, although the hotel has an email account you can use to send stuff out (someone on the trip tried to use this, without success). Incredibly expensive phone calls are possible (likely wiretapped). You can mail out postcards from the hotel as well.

In short: Don't expect luxury.

As for the "political" bit--I've seen poor places before, and so seeing poor places in Korea wouldn't've done much for me. The whole point in going is to experience the utter oddness of the place, and that's easily doable with the itinerary we were given. I'm not particularly sure I'd even want to see the inside of a gulag or dilapidated village, if I were given the choice.

Very useful and informative reply. Thanks!

If I ever get there, I'll make sure to check for the aftertaste of dirt and the non-chicken meat.;)

I was there in August 2009 with Koryo. It is easily one of the most fascinating places I've been and would definitely go back. As long as you go with an open mind and realize that everything will be from a DPRK viewpoint (eg... Americans are evil imperialists) then you'll have a great time.

I was also in Turkmenistan in 1998 and it was similarly weird and fascinating, but not quite as sealed off as the DPRK.

We need more awareness and exposure for North Korea.

I was there in August 2009 with Koryo. It is easily one of the most fascinating places I've been and would definitely go back.

If you were to go back, what would you want to see? I kept getting the feeling that they were pretty much showing us almost everything they had to show. There are a few odds and ends that were missed, and maybe something like the Mass Games would be worth seeing again.

I think you'd need a "private" tour to avoid an almost-exact repeat of your previous itinerary. I can think of the Diamond Mountains (Kumgangsan) and maybe that "special economic zone" up north to be worth seeing. But beyond that...

That having been said, simply re-experiencing the weirdness of the place could be worth it in and of itself.

As long as you go with an open mind and realize that everything will be from a DPRK viewpoint (eg... Americans are evil imperialists) then you'll have a great time.

Their "viewpoint" was a source of much amusement on my trip. I went on a second passport to avoid any potential complications of being an American. On the way to the Demilitarized Zone I asked my guide if the Americans would try to capture me and pull me across the border. "Don't worry," she said, "our people will protect you." :p

Then, one night at the hotel as we were taking shots of "bear tonic" (don't ask), the other guide asked me how it was that I spoke English so well! "Umm, I went to a university in America..."

Oops, wrong thread- sorry!

BDA shorts,
Not sure if it's stated somewhere or obvious or anything but I assume you're not American?

BDA shorts,
Not sure if it's stated somewhere or obvious or anything but I assume you're not American?

I am American and spent most of my life in America but carry another passport--and a passport for a third country should be arriving in the mail by Christmas!

Orascom's definitely got the cell network up and running. The junior minder had a cell phone which she was able to use even in areas outside of Pyongyang, and quite a few times I saw shopkeepers with mobiles as well. Little signs of modernization like that, and working to finish the tallest unfinished building in the world, seem like signs of modernization. I also saw a small handful of actual advertisement billboards (as opposed to propaganda), all for what looked like a car dealership. Our guide mentioned that this was the only advertisement currently up. Add the commercial activities in the basement of the Yangakkdo Hotel... it seems like some form of (un)free enterprise is going on. At least, if you're a foreigner you can do business in North Korea.

Between the train blog and my experience, I've come to this conclusion: Outside of the world that's involved in tourism, nobody in North Korea knows that you're not supposed to be walking around unsupervised. So once you make it out of the "perimeter" you can pretty much do what you want. I took a few "walks" while I was there, and while I got a few strange looks on the street I was largely ignored.

(Caveat: Someone noticed, I think a guide on a tour bus that passed me by, and told my guide, who then had a little chat with me...)

I spend three months a year or so in North Korea and can move freely due to my function. What you say is correct. There are Western people conducting business here (I know all 10 or so of them) and we can move very freely in Pyongyang. I have a North Korean driver's license and can drive around. Apply reason and don't do weird things close to government buildings. When you travel outside the city, you'll soon hit a road block who will tell you to turn around when you don't have the papers. E.g. when traveling from Pyongyang to the Special Economic Zone, there's one every 20 klicks or so.

North Korea is very different from what you get to see with the official, guided tours.

North Korea is very different from what you get to see with the official, guided tours.

And this, of course, is exactly what everyone who goes on a tour is trying to figure out--what is it actually like? I can't believe your average North Korean spends 24 hours a day suffocating under the oppression, which is what the outside media would make you think. At some point during the day he's probably buying groceries, seeing his friends, raising a family, and otherwise getting on with his life.

This is why I asked the guides a lot of questions about things like for how long they live with their parents and how they met their significant others. I even went so far as to ask "what does your society think about premarital sex?" (Answer: it's frowned upon [this comes from their Buddhist tradition], but "things happen in real life.") I also figured that these kinds of questions were more likely to get candid, insightful answers, as opposed to any question about politics or the economy.

So, based on the significant amount of time you spend in North Korea, how would you say it's different from what we get on the tours, and (more importantly) from what outside media tells us is "the reality of everyday life"?

And this, of course, is exactly what everyone who goes on a tour is trying to figure out--what is it actually like? I can't believe your average North Korean spends 24 hours a day suffocating under the oppression, which is what the outside media would make you think. At some point during the day he's probably buying groceries, seeing his friends, raising a family, and otherwise getting on with his life.

This is why I asked the guides a lot of questions about things like for how long they live with their parents and how they met their significant others. I even went so far as to ask "what does your society think about premarital sex?" (Answer: it's frowned upon [this comes from their Buddhist tradition], but "things happen in real life.") I also figured that these kinds of questions were more likely to get candid, insightful answers, as opposed to any question about politics or the economy.

So, based on the significant amount of time you spend in North Korea, how would you say it's different from what we get on the tours, and (more importantly) from what outside media tells us is "the reality of everyday life"?

As in any country, life there has many different aspects. I mean in no way to relativate the harshness of life there, but there is also for example a funny side. We definitely had some very fun Karaoke parties in Pyongyang. PM me if you want to see some photos, including their awesome song collection, including "Hotel California", "U can't touch this" and "Take Me Home, Country Roads". Or did you know that in one of Pyongyang's prime locations, there is a restaurant selling American-style burgers?

People in Pyongyang tend to live with their parents until they get married, then they can apply for an apartment for their new family. And in terms of sex life, office romances seem to be just as popular there as they are everywhere else around the world. :-)

I also was last year in North Korea on a Korea Konsult tour including the Trans-Siberian Railway. I must say that they work very professionally and that their pre-tour information was excellent. I am very surprised that they missed the information about the double-entry visa in China. It is very clearly explained on their website. Experienced travelers like you should know that if you enter China twice and you stay there less than 24 hours then you don't need a double-entry visa.

Ohh--oddly enough, the beer was incredibly good. Who'da thunk it.

During the Soviet era, throughout the communist world many local brewery operators flew workers to East Germany for training under East German brewmeisters and likewise many East German brewmeisters where flown into various communist nations around the world to assist in setting up and operating the local breweries, leaving a legacy of decent beer throughout many parts of the communist world.

During the Soviet era, throughout the communist world many local brewery operators flew workers to East Germany for training under East German brewmeisters and likewise many East German brewmeisters where flown into various communist nations around the world to assist in setting up and operating the local breweries, leaving a legacy of decent beer throughout many parts of the communist world.

I had no idea... thank you for that interesting tidbit! Makes perfect sense, as I'd prefer North Korean beer to South Korean. So why'd they do this? Would having a better beer improve patriotism and keep people happy with the regime the same way, for instance, beautiful subway stations would? Or was this simply just a part of everyday cooperation with the allies that took place in every industry?

Bumping an old thread here -- long time reader, first time poster -- but I'm going to North Korea next week and am pretty excited!

I'll be on Koryo Tours also, with three friends, all based in Japan. None of us speak Korean very well but we can read bits and pieces of hangul and can often puzzle out words that share Chinese roots, so a lot of the Korean place names make a surprising amount of sense once you figure out which Chinese characters they'd be written with, were the Northerners not so insistent on always using hangul.

One question, as an American: will I ever have trouble in the US after having visited NK? When I next return to the US, do I have to tell them that I've been to NK? (People have told me that I only have to admit going to NK when returning to China. From there to Japan, and then from Japan back to the US in a year or so, I can just tell them my previous country.)

Also, is it safe to post about my visit on places like Facebook? I don't want the US government saving that kind of info -- and given the recent story about two Brits who tweeted about digging up Marilyn Monroe's corpse and destroying America (http://rt.com/usa/news/joke-marilyn-bryan-monroe-197/), I'm sure that the government has people checking this stuff on occasion! How about mailing things to the US? Customs might open my letters, but will the people I send postcards to find themselves on any lists?

Aside from this, I basically have no preconceptions and am going in with a totally open mind. I can't wait!

One question, as an American: will I ever have trouble in the US after having visited NK? When I next return to the US, do I have to tell them that I've been to NK? (People have told me that I only have to admit going to NK when returning to China. From there to Japan, and then from Japan back to the US in a year or so, I can just tell them my previous country.)

No - the DPRK does not stamp in your passport. It is a piece of paper that they staple in when you arrive and remove when you leave. I have been to the DPRK more than once, and have even asked the immigration agent to stamp my passport, but they refused.

Also, is it safe to post about my visit on places like Facebook? I don't want the US government saving that kind of info -- and given the recent story about two Brits who tweeted about digging up Marilyn Monroe's corpse and destroying America (http://rt.com/usa/news/joke-marilyn-bryan-monroe-197/), I'm sure that the government has people checking this stuff on occasion! How about mailing things to the US? Customs might open my letters, but will the people I send postcards to find themselves on any lists?

Aside from this, I basically have no preconceptions and am going in with a totally open mind. I can't wait!

Use common sense. Posting pictures of your visit along with general commentary on the trip will not cause any problems. Re: postcards - no issues. I have sent a bunch to various countries, but have not sent any letters. I figured if someone was going to read the mail, I would make it easy for them.

Have a great trip. It is a fascinating and unique place.

Eastnortheast, thanks for the comments!

I know that the DPRK doesn't stamp your passport, but the US asks you, when returning to the US, where you went. I suppose I could omit NK and just say that I went to Japan and China (the only two stamps I'll have), but in this era of nothing really being private anymore, I'm a little concerned. I've sent several messages referring to this trip using my Gmail account, which I now realize that I probably shouldn't have done. On Facebook I haven't mentioned it at all.

This is only a five-day trip, but should be enough to get the flavor. ENE< what brought you to the DPRK? Just tourism?

Don't sweat it - there's nothing illegal about visiting or spending money in the DPRK. I put "North Korea" on my US customs form twice (I've been twice - both with Koryo Tours - they're awesome) and no one said a word.

What you don't want to do is be caught lying to the federal government. While it's ridiculous that it's a "crime" to do so, it is on the statute book as such. For what it's worth.

Don't sweat it - there's nothing illegal about visiting or spending money in the DPRK. I put "North Korea" on my US customs form twice (I've been twice - both with Koryo Tours - they're awesome) and no one said a word.

What you don't want to do is be caught lying to the federal government. While it's ridiculous that it's a "crime" to do so, it is on the statute book as such. For what it's worth.

That's sort of my question -- when you return to the US, do they need to know every country you've been to since you last set foot in the US, or just where you're coming from on that day? After going to NK, I'll go back to China, then to Japan (where I live), and then, in perhaps 10 months, the USA (where my citizenship is).

I know it's not illegal to go there; I just don't want to end up on any watch lists or extra-screening lists for the rest of my life because I visited a "sensitive" destination for five days.

Also, is it safe to post about my visit on places like Facebook? I don't want the US government saving that kind of info -- and given the recent story about two Brits who tweeted about digging up Marilyn Monroe's corpse and destroying America, I'm sure that the government has people checking this stuff on occasion!
I gather the issue is not what the U.S. government thinks, but what the North Korean government thinks if they see what you post on Facebook. You don't want to post anything that could create problems for your North Korean guides. They're the ones who could get into trouble long after you leave. I know Koryo requires you to sign saying that you will not publish anything about your trip. How they view the term "publish" is open to interpertation. Talk to the Koryo folks about this when you have your mandatory pre-departure meeting in Beijing.

I know all this because I've been looking into travel to NK, but, alas, I am a travel journalist. I'm looking for a way.

And that's the crux here - Martha Stewart did not go to prison for insider trading, she was found guilty and sentenced for a violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001, lying to a Federal agent.


(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section,
whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of
the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the
Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully-

(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick,
scheme, or device a material fact;

(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or
fraudulent statement or representation; or

(3) makes or uses any false writing or document
knowing the same to contain any materially false,
fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;

shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not
more than 5 years…


link (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/47/1001)

so you don't want to be doing that, whether orally or in writing, to ANY agent of the Federal government, and that includes false statements of innocence.

Yep, I am sure we have opinions about this, but regardless this is the law and how it is carried out is not subject to our opinions. :)

I've been questioned on occasion by overeager, usually young and inexperienced, US Border Protection agents about visas for Middle East countries, etc. and I am merely matter of fact. It hasn't hurt, other than minor delays, as I still have my Global Entry / trusted traveler status intact with full disclosure in my application and subsequent interview.

Don't sweat it - there's nothing illegal about visiting or spending money in the DPRK. I put "North Korea" on my US customs form twice (I've been twice - both with Koryo Tours - they're awesome) and no one said a word.

What you don't want to do is be caught lying to the federal government. While it's ridiculous that it's a "crime" to do so, it is on the statute book as such. For what it's worth.

Upon your return to the USA, if nothing is asked of you, nothing need be volunteered. Your Customs form will have a line asking about countries visited on this trip--just fill in the truth. If directly asked by an Immigration officer, which countries you visited, just tell the truth. The US government does not prohibit Americans from visiting North Korea and there isn't any problem with admitting you did so.

I've always taken that question to mean: Where were you on your sojourn outside the United States?

The longest I've ever been outside the U.S. without setting foot on U.S. soil was 10 months. I was predominantly in one country. When I returned, I made sure to put down on the form every country I'd visited, even if it was just for a couple of days and months earlier.

Raises an interesting question: How does a first-time visitor to the U.S. answer that question?

In any case, as has been mentioned, it's legal for U.S. citizens to visit NK. I wouldn't worry about putting it down.