California - Napa Winery Recomendations ?

Traveling with Mrs. Spartanflyer and another couple end of October. We will be heading into Napa on Thursday afternoon and back on Sunday. Been doing some research on the wineries and the selection is daunting! So many choices. Can anyone recommend a great experience in and around the Napa area? Has anyone tried the hot air balloon morning tour? Been reading a lot and it doesn't seem to be helping with narrowing the number of possible wineries.

This thread has some suggestions -

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/california/997062-yet-another-napa-trip-thread.html

This thread is a little old but still has some useful information -

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/san-francisco/302248-favorite-wineries-visit-napa-sonoma.html

for example, my rec's for red tastings are different than those for whites; which part of the valley you're staying in (esp. on the weekends it can take an hour + to get from Napa to the other side of St. Helena so it makes sense to cluster your tastings based on locale); how interested in history you might be (I planned a tasting day for my Uncle based entirely around Judgment of Paris winning wineries, most of which I recommend visiting); whether having things like galleries or food events at the wineries are of interest to you; your interest in picnicking facilities at a winery; desire to go on tours/get more than the standard tasting; how much you want to spend per tasting; how much you want to avoid big touristy spots; whether you are willing to make reservations (some wineries are only open by reservation, one of my favorites (Phelps) is by appointment only and limits the number of people participating at any one time) ; whether you plan to use a limo (some wineries don't allow them)

NVV has a searchable list of its members by category that can be very useful (go to winery finder)
www.napavintners.com

That said:
Phelps (res. required)
Artesa (based on this review: http://napavalleyregister.com/lifestyles/food-and-cooking/wine/columnists/pierce-carson/article_46c720ea-8599-11df-a52a-001cc4c03286.html + Gordon Heuther art on property)
Chateau Montelena (res. required)
Heitz (always has good reds, and may still include port in their tasting)

For champagne Mumm over Chandon, Schramsberg over either of them and Domaine Carneros

Did a library red tasting at Turnbull earlier this year, as part of a photo exhibit, loved the photos, completely unimpressed with the reds, but had a Sauv. Blanc that was great.

Clos Pegase (even if strictly for the modern art collection, though I am told their 08 chard, the 06 cab and merlot are all good)

Silver Oak-cabs, obviously

YMMV, I'm local so when I go tasting (other than for special events) I prefer wineries that meet all of the following criteria: a) uncrowded places b) places that let locals taste for free and c) big dog-friendly. That tends to create a strange list of mostly small places.

Never been ballooning, mainly because you have to get up so early, but it did look lovely in March when I was driving to the airport at 5:30am.

There is a "wine train" that may provide quick orientation and information when you arrive. Hotel Concierges can arrange specific wine tours based on your interests. There is so much to do and you will have too short a time to do them.

For this local, Napa Valley is in the same category as San Francisco's Fisherman's Wharf: absent a time machine that allows me to go back 100 years, I'll leave them to the tourists.

Bear in mind that the wine train doesn't actually STOP anywhere. You board, have a meal while the train keeps going, and then it lets you off where you got on. Especially at dinner time, when it's dark outside, I'm not sure how much orientation you would get.

Not going to say what we Napkins call the wine train, let's just leave it as not complimentary. Definitely not worth the price or the experience.

FWIW, we enjoyed Domaine Chandon, and its just outside Yountville, close to Napa.

For this local, Napa Valley is in the same category as San Francisco's Fisherman's Wharf: absent a time machine that allows me to go back 100 years, I'll leave them to the tourists.

Agreed: Napa feels a lot like a tourist trap. Though I think you only need to dial your time machine to about 12 years back to get around it. The problem is that the "name" wineries are all very crowded, charge sometimes outrageous tasting fees (they used to be free or $5 tops), sell wines at totally uncompetitive prices, and are mainly staffed by marketing interns whose only knowledge of the wines comes from what they read in the notebook this morning. Oh, and traffic sucks on the weekends and the restaurants are all too crowded, too. It's still worth visiting on occasion, especially if you've never been. Just set your expectation appropriately. And consider going to some of the lesser touristed areas in Sonoma or points west.

ETA: Two big-name Napa wineries that are worth visiting for the tours to learn a bit about how wines are made are Robert Modavi and Domaine Chandon.

I guess we are one of "those limo" groups.
There will be four of us (two couples) and we were going to rent a limo so we didn't have to worry about directions or not finishing that last tasty glass of wine. Is this going to put us in a bad light? It's not as though we were going to drink as much as possible, but thought it would be safer and more enjoyable.

We booked two rooms at The Inn on First and are really looking forward to that.

"tehg"- a lot of great information to review. Thanks for your insight!

Looks like I have some homework for the weekend.

A limo is a fun and stress free way to go wine tasting. I have never heard of a winery having a problem with a small limo with 4 passengers. Some wineries do not allow the big party limos usually full of passengers who have had way to much to drink.

The weekends are very crowded. Maybe do your wine tasting in Napa Valley on Thursday and Friday and head up to the Alexander Valley on Saturday. A beautiful drive and relatively not very crowded.

I have always enjoyed having a glass of wine on the deck at Auberge du Soleil in the late afternoon.

A few major recommendations combining superb wines and unique wineries some of which require reservations:

1) Caymus - attractive small sit down tasting room

2) Round Pond - Beautiful new facility tasting includes wine and food pairing

3) Hall - Make an appointment at their Rutherford facility

4) Far Niente- If someone in your party is a member of the trade

5) Patz and Hall - especially if you like Pinot's and Chardonnays

I may have some additional recommendations if you like particular varietals

Another quick thought-- if you are going to do tasting in the general public tasting rooms schedule those wineries for Thursday and Friday. Those with reservations push into Saturday and Sunday. It can be crowded on weekends but if you have reservations you can avoid the crush (pun intended).

I can't begin to express my gratitude for the folks who take them, finding drunk drivers after the wineries close on the weekends in-season is pretty darn easy (and the Napa paper publishes the names of everyone convicted on a weekly basis)

I don't think the limo thing is always an anti-big group issue, sometimes it is just a parking issue, but either way once you get a list of places to see nailed down, it doesn't hurt to check online, ask the limo driver (if using a local *i.e., Napa, not bay area, company) or the concierge

I took a mini-coach tour back in '08 - it sucked, the wines we tasted were poor and many of the places were heaving. Limo seems like a much better idea..

Mrs. FrAAmer and I honeymooned in the Napa Valley 28 years ago and have returned every year. We were just there over labor day weekend to celebrate the little FrAAmer's 21st birthday.

Pictures here:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=24698&id=100000887010866&l=aae14fdb3e

There are tastings and then there are tastings........

Most wineries are charging about $20 per person for tastings (there are 2 for 1 deals at many places) but it still adds up. My recommendation is to choose special tastings that will allow you to taste wines that you would not buy on a regular basis. By doing "estate" tastings you will often get a private setting, more generous pours, and usually have multiple glasses so you can compare and contrast.

I like to combine tastings and winery visits (no tastings just seeing the grounds, architecture and art). Pace yourself, it is IMPOSSIBLE to see it all in a few days and if you drink too much, by the last day you might be "wined" out.

Here are some of my favorites and not in any particular order:

1. Hess. Fantastic art collection and excellent wines – though one could just go to see the art. They have a video that is worth seeing too that will give you insite to the vineyards you can't get from the road. It is up Mount Veeder at the Napa end of the valley. A pretty drive, and just when you think, “where in the hell is FrAAmer sending us?” you will get to their driveway. DO NOT MISS THIS PLACE if just to see the art and video. http://www.hesscollection.com/

2. Artessa. The artist in residence (http://www.gordonhuether.com/) also has a studio in Napa you can see a lot of his work at this BEAUTIFUL winery in the Caneros. Their wines are really worthy. My recommendation is to book a special tasting called Vino con Queso. If you do book it, ask for Lynn to be your hostess Try to make arrangements that you can get there by 11AM and join the winery tour, knowing that you will have to leave early to join the Vino con Queso tasting – but it will be worth your time. Artessa is one of our favorite places in the whole Napa valley. http://www.artesawinery.com/index1.html The Carneros region is BEAUTIFUL.

3. Schramsberg- When the Chinese laborers finished building the Trans Pacific railway 120 years ago, they were hired to dig caves into the hills and these are the original caves where the sparkling wine is produced method champenoise. http://www.schramsberg.com/visit.html If you only do one sparkling wine tour, I think this is the best. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED as it is completely different than any other experience.

4. Joseph Phelps. Perhaps the BEST views in the whole Napa valley are from his terraces. DEFINITELY one I recommend to visit. Great value at $25 per person for tasting http://www.jpvwines.com/tastings/ The Silverado Trail is my favorite part of he Napa Valley.

5. Clos Pegase http://www.clospegase.com/hm.html Michael Graves designed the building and grounds. Outstanding art collection, especially sculpture. Worth visiting – I don’t taste, just come to look at the art and grounds. They have "modern" caves.

6. Duckhorn. The estate tour and tasting will let you taste $100 bottles of wine in a relaxed dining setting using multiple $35 stemware. Outstanding wines and a great tasting value. Highly recommended. http://www.duckhorn.com/duckhorndnn/DuckhornVineyards/visiting_the_winery/DV_Visit_EstateTour/tabid/872/Default.aspxhttp://www.duckhorn.com/duckhorndnn/DuckhornVineyards/tabid/55/Default.aspx/

7. Quioxte – YOU HAVE TO GO HERE. http://www.quixotewinery.com/ The last project Hundertwasser did before he died – it is a living Hundertwasser! No tours on Saturday and Sunday, but you can see the building and grounds. http://www.quixotewinery.com/contactus.html Hard to find – it is unmarked and up a private driveway. This is a place that no-one knows about. Tours and Tastings on Thurs-Friday.

8. I also love Paraduxx. The enhanced tasting is well worth the $30 http://www.duckhorn.com/duckhorndnn/Paraduxx/visiting_the_winery/tabid/160/Default.aspx We went to the vines with a guide and tasted grapes right from the vine. Also did a vertical tasting of the '05, '06, and '07 Paraduxx. A vertical tasting is a real treat!

9. Chateau Montelena – I love their wines and find their Sauvignon Blanc to be wonderful. If I were to taste there, I would pay a bit more and get one of the upgraded tastings. http://www.montelena.com/visit/tastingRoom

I also highly recommend a mud bath in Calistoga. Indian Springs is where we go – old but CLEAN, upscale and worth every penny. http://www.indianspringscalistoga.com/spa/

I'm not much of a wine person, so take my suggestion with a grain of salt. However, I've done the Hendry winery tour in Napa and was very pleased with it. You have to book in advance, but its a nice small group tour (6-10 people), often led by Mr. Hendry himself around the facility (fermenter, barrels, etc.) and weather permitting the vineyards. It's really educational about the wine making process and includes a tasting at the end. It is a small winery (the sign is really hard to see off the main road!) and does not draw tourist crowds, which personally I like.

Anyways if your interested their page is here:
http://www.hendrywines.com/

You can always yelp it to get more feedback on it too. Enjoy your trip!

Going to have to throw in a shout for Frog's Leap, in Rutherford. Great winery. The fact that it is owned by a close friend and fraternity brother of mine is purely coincidental to my recommendation!:D:D

We were just there in July, and admittedly get somewhat special treatment. But I think that the all organic, dry-farmed wine growing concept, together with the solar-powered technology, make it a very interesting place to visit.

And that's on top of some pretty good wines. (Sauv Blanc and the Rutherford blend would be my top picks, although the chardonnay is excellent, even though I am not a big Chard fan).

Had a great time in Napa / Sonoma!
Here is the listing of wineries we visited:
1. Grgich Hills - Wonderful wines. Had a Grgich employee give us a behind the scenes tour (friend of a friend). Everyone treated us great, even those who didn't know we were with an "insider". Have a case heading our way. Very nice mid-size winery. Good people. Made us feel welcome and comfortable. Very interesting Biodynamic approach to growing vines. Joined their wine club.
2. Sebastiani - Tasting room. Very nice wines. Kevin behind the counter was very helpful and friendly. Great experience.
3. Sterling- Disappointed here. Took the tram ride up to the winery for the tasting. No one in our party was enamored with their wines. Only one of two wineries we visited that we didn't purchase anything at. Views were nice, but same scenery can be had without paying the tram/ tasting fee (see Artesa). Afterward I was told by our innkeeper that the Reserve wines were better. Service was poor - no one took an interest in us nor were we offered Reserve tasting.
4. Peju - Great experience. Good wines. Jeff in the upstairs tasting room was entertaining and easy to talk with. Very nice setting. Smaller / Mid size winery. Very enjoyable. Bought a case from them.
5. Girard Tasting Room - Wines good. Service poor. Second of two wineries we didn't buy wines from. Felt like we were an inconvenience to them.
6.Artesa- Wonderful views. Very different and nice setting. "Cool factor" and artwork abound. Service was ok. Not as knowledgeable or interesting as others - tried too hard to be hip. Bought a couple of wines here - enjoyed them a lot. Spent time walking the grounds. Could have spent longer here if we didn't have an appointment later. Was warned that they get very busy on Saturdays - got there as they opened and had no issue. Would come back.
7. Bourassa - Great small winery. Personal tour. Was taken into the back to look at their production by Joe, our tasting guide - very knowledgeable about the wines and all things Napa. Spent a good amount of time here. During our tour we went into the back to check out their production and ran into Vic Bourassa, founder and owner, making Port. He stopped what he was doing and spent time with us. Great experience. Great wines. Cask tasting - a unique experience. This one is a little tricky - they sit in an industrial park, don't let the setting fool you. They were recommended by a few native Napa citizens. Well worth the time to find them. We joined their wine club. Will visit again. Great people.
8. Gundlach Bundschu - Excellent wines. Tito behind the bar made a very pleasurable and enjoyable experience for everyone. Great setting, nice tasting bar. Purchased quite a few of their wines. Good people. Was busy mid afternoon, but worth it.
9. Buena Vista - Nice setting. Smaller vineyard. Service ok. Wines good. Really liked the Port wine. Was here at the close of day and they didn't really go out of their way to help us. Though, I would probably try them again. Quite a walk from the general parking to the tasting room. Unique.
10. Domaine Carneros - Beautiful Setting. Elegant French Chateau. Nice change to the Sparkling wines. Jean Claude was our server and was truly a professional. Wonderful experience. Would visit again. Highly recommended.
11. Folio - A nice tasting experience. Good counter service. A Michael Mondavi winery - he cannot use the family name as it was purchased by the conglomerate who bought the Robert Mondavi brand. Purchased a few good wines here.

Eateries:
1. Bounty Hunter - Wonderful wine selection, great menu choices. Not for the vegetarian minded or faint of heart. We started with the olive appetizer, had the meat platter with cole slaw and were very happy. Ribs are fantastic, beer can chicken was awesome. Casual dining. Staff here knows their wines. A definite recommendation.
2. Oenotri - Southern Italian cuisine, with authentic wood-burning oven from Naples. Casual to business casual. The food is just superb with homemade pastas and salumis.
3. Rutherford Grill - Went here for lunch. Great food. a part of the Houston's chain of restaurants. Killed an hour and a half of our tasting day as there was a significant wait. It was showering outside so we couldn't picnic. Might reconsider this option unless they aren't as busy.
4. Angele- A French bistro on the Napa River. This restaurant is situated in the Napa Mill Station, with a menu featuring traditional recipes enhanced by local produce and French preparation. Food was excellent.
5. Boon Fly Cafe - Roadside restaurant. Great Bacon Bloody Mary's. Had brunch here - great breakfast pizza, Poppa Joe's Eggs in a Hole, good sandwiches and Kobe hamburgers, all around great food.

Lodging:
Inn On First in Napa - Definitely a must stay - we will definitely be returning. Comfortable and quiet. Absolutely wonderful gourmet breakfasts. Felt welcome by the staff. Most of our dealings were with Jamie - he has an easy personality and friendly demeanor. Very knowledgeable and helpful with all things Napa. Great location - easy walk to restaurants in downtown. Fresh cookies and Port out every night. Can't say enough good things about this B&B and the hospitality we received. A high quality stay and worth every penny!

Limo Service:
Beau Tours - Alright experience. Nice to have to not worry about wine tasting and driving. Had most of our tour set up ahead of time on our own.

:cool:

Thanks for the detailed trip report. Very helpful.

Going to have to throw in a shout for Frog's Leap, in Rutherford. Great winery. The fact that it is owned by a close friend and fraternity brother of mine is purely coincidental to my recommendation!:D:D

We were just there in July, and admittedly get somewhat special treatment. But I think that the all organic, dry-farmed wine growing concept, together with the solar-powered technology, make it a very interesting place to visit.

And that's on top of some pretty good wines. (Sauv Blanc and the Rutherford blend would be my top picks, although the chardonnay is excellent, even though I am not a big Chard fan).

I'm assuming that you're referring to John W. He grew up in a very small town in western NY where the school had grades 1-12 and even after busing in three towns, the average class size was about 50 students. My wife grew up in the same town and was a couple of years behind John, but in a school and town that size everyone knows everyone.

John gave us a wonderful personal tour of the winery a few years back when we went for our first Napa visit. I do agree with you, the winery (and the story of its founding) make for an interesting visit.

I like to go to the smaller, more out of the way places when I am in the area, largely because I have already done "The Big Wine Tour" thing years ago, because I am usually passing through on other business, and because I like to smaller laid-back feel of Santa Ynez/SB (though that has definitely becoem more "Napa" in the last 20 years). I'd look through the list of wineries for places you've never heard of and give 'em a shot. Makes it more of an exploration, than a visit to the home office.

I like Cline Cellars... smaller, less pretense, a bit South of the Napa-Sonoma frenzy, not super touristy, decent Zins, nice staff, generous and off-list pours. Nice gardens.

I would NEVER go to Ravenswood again, though. Maybe a bad day, but hard to get to, packed with Zin fans, rude staff not being nice to Zin fans (plus they mainly buy grapes, so not much of a vineyard feel, but I knew that in advance.) I actually don't buy Ravenswood because of the horrible visit to their tasting room.

Two that are off the beaten path, but WELL worth the drive in Napa's Pope Valley area:

Cleavage Creek Winery (http://www.cleavagecreek.com) - great wines for a great cause. 10% of their proceeds go to Breast Cancer Research AND the owner also pays for women who have Stage 3 or 4 Breast Cancer and have exhausted their insurance to continue their treatment.

Pope Valley Winery (http://www.popevalleywinery.com/) - just a hop, skip and jump from Cleavage Creek, Pope Valley is a small, family operation with an intimate tasting room and VERY friendly dogs. The winemaker, David, gave us a tour of their hand-dug barrel room.

I will second or third or fourth the recommendation for Hendry. Excellent wines and we had a great tour from George Hendry!

I'm assuming that you're referring to John W. He grew up in a very small town in western NY where the school had grades 1-12 and even after busing in three towns, the average class size was about 50 students. My wife grew up in the same town and was a couple of years behind John, but in a school and town that size everyone knows everyone.

John gave us a wonderful personal tour of the winery a few years back when we went for our first Napa visit. I do agree with you, the winery (and the story of its founding) make for an interesting visit.

Sorry, did not see this a few months ago.

Yes, John is a fraternity brother of mine from Cornell. Great guy. Have also spent a lot of time in upstate obviously -- my wife is also from Ithaca, so I've spent lots of time up there.

For Napa Valley, I recommend Frank Family Vineyards, Rombauer off Silverado trail near the aforementioned Sterling and Cuvaison that were recommended in the other thread. Frank will always be a favorites after they gave my wife a free bottle of champagne on her birthday. Elizabeth Spencer is a hidden gem and Cakebread not so hidden - both require reservations. We were Cakebread members for several years - it's one of the few places that produces high quality reds and whites. Whitehall Lane and Grgich are also worthwhile.

I am not big on champagne but would rank as follows in order of quality: Mumm, Chandon, Ferrer. No longer a fan of V. Sattui - crap wines - but still a great picnic area.

We will finally be returning to Napa for the first time in a few years - ironically twice in a week due to attend both business and personal events - so I'll try to update this thread soon.

For sparkling wine I would highly recommend Domaine Carneros and Schramsberg

In addition to my earlier recommendations I agree fully with Fraamer's comments with regard to Joseph Phelps and the at and wine at both Hess and Clos Pegase.

Jennifer and I found the private tasting at Schramsberg Vineyards absolutely delightful. You do need to call ahead. Sometimes they get a last minute cancel and they can get you in.