Hyatt Gold Passport - Asthmatic hotel guest fights $250 Hyatt Regency smoking charge

http://travel.usatoday.com/hotels/post/2010/09/asthamtic-hotel-guest-fights-hyatt-smoking-charge/111442/1

By Barbara De Lollis, USA TODAY

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel "Public Investigator" column this week investigated a disputed $250 smoking fine that a non-smoking couple was charged at the Hyatt Regency Milwaukee after they checked out. I thought it might interest to you, given our recent discussion about smoking bans at hotels.

Here's what happened:

Kate Lloyd and her fiancé, Aaron O'Neil, of Madison, Wisc., last month stayed at the Hyatt Regency in downtown Milwaukee to enjoy Irish Fest and celebrate birthdays.

Two days after they checked out of the Hyatt Regency, they received an additional $250 bill for smoking in a non-smoking room, the paper says.

Many hotel chains in recent years adopted a fine policy for smoking in a non-smoking room to cover cleaning costs. Lloyd, however, suffers from severe asthma, and both she and O'Neil insist that neither they nor anyone else in their group smoked in their room.

"I can't imagine I'm the only one this has happened to, and I hope exposing this practice will put an end to it," Lloyd told the paper's "Public Investigator" reporter last Thursday. "Nobody should have to go through this."

Lloyd and O'Neil - who both happen to be attorneys with the state Department of Justice - called Hyatt to fix the mistake, but Lloyd tells the Journal Sentinel that Hyatt refused to remove the charge. An official from the property told Lloyd the hotel had photographic evidence of smoking in the room and wouldn't budge on the charge. Other steps Lloyd had taken before the paper intervened:

* She asked to see the photos but the hotel refused, further frustrating Lloyd. Hyatt does not make internal documents available to the public, the article says.
* She sent a letter to the hotel demanding a refund and threatening to sue.
* She called her credit card company, Capital One, and received some sympathy but was told it would be tough to prove she hadn't smoked in the room.
* She called Hyatt corporate last week, but received a similar message.

Only once the paper intervened did Hyatt ultimately refund Lloyd her the $250 that very same day...

< more at link above >

Boy, I don't feel so bad about that $5 water bottle charge anymore ...

Gotta love the comment from the hotel mgr:

"I don't know if we made a mistake," he told the paper. "We're going to assume that we did make a mistake because it's our job to make the guests satisfied when they leave and to make sure we treat them fairly and they leave happy."

Treated fairly and leave happy? It involved threatening a lawsuit and involving the media!

I have to give the hotel the benefit of the doubt here. I've stayed at this hotel many times and I just don't think the right people were involved. Granted, it shouldn't have gotten to the point of publicity - because the $250 charge was nothing in comparison to what the bad press will cost the hotel.

Chances are, they called and got someone with no authority to make a refund decision.

Calling the hotel's general manager from the outset is the best option.

In 15 years with Hyatt, I don't believe I've ever had an instance where I wasn't able to work out an unpleasant situation with a hotel; not that they happen often, but there have been instances. In each case, the GM of the hotel was the one to make a decision.

For Hyatt's part, and this goes for other hotels, they need to train their people not to say "NO" to everything - but to escalate problems by their severity. An Asthmatic being charged a smoking fee is certainly worthy of the GM's attention. For the problem to have made it to the McPaper, it couldn't have made it that far up in the hotel.

The problem is that people whine so much about every little thing and demand refunds, credits, free-this, free-that, because their iron didn't work or because the shampoo didn't smell good, or someone didn't smile; that hotels have to be careful about how much they give away. That, in turn, can mean that truly big problems don't get properly escalated.

I do not get the point of the discussion.

Obviously, they smoked in the room and they were charged for it. Hotels have become smarter throughout the last years and take pictures, same with city officials giving away parking tickets. For further evidence, both take pictures nowadays...

Do you honestly expect one party to give away the evidence, if the other party threatened to take you to court ??

We are talking about people who are addicted to a drug and some people try to cut corners hoping to avoid taking the elevator down to smoke in front of the hotel. If you are a little closer to the industry, scenarios like this happen multiple times daily in every big hotel on the planet. I had to change rooms in the past, because obviously somebody smoked in it not too long ago.

And I fear smokers in general tend to have problems with their respiratory chain, so using an asthmatic condition as an excuse is a little shacky in my book...and what is wrong charging the $ 250 cleaning fee, if you honestly believe and are able to prove that they have smoked in the room...

I do not get the point of the discussion.

Obviously, they smoked in the room and they were charged for it. Hotels have become smarter throughout the last years and take pictures, same with city officials giving away parking tickets. For further evidence, both take pictures nowadays...

Do you honestly expect one party to give away the evidence, if the other party threatened to take you to court ??



red-light runners tend to get a ticket together with a nice photo in the mail. So yeah, if a hotel wanted to charge me something, I'd certainly expect to see some sort of evidence.

Also don't see that they "obviously" smoked in the room.


We are talking about people who are addicted to a drug and some people try to cut corners hoping to avoid taking the elevator down to smoke in front of the hotel. If you are a little closer to the industry, scenarios like this happen multiple times daily in every big hotel on the planet. I had to change rooms in the past, because obviously somebody smoked in it not too long ago.

And I fear smokers in general tend to have problems with their respiratory chain, so using an asthmatic condition as an excuse is a little shacky in my book...and what is wrong charging the $ 250 cleaning fee, if you honestly believe and are able to prove that they have smoked in the room...

trust me, I am a fairly non-tolerant non-smoker (never have, never will). Have called the front desk in the past when smelling cigarette smoke coming out from under the door while walking down a non-smoking floor hallway.

That said, $250 is not a trivial amount and I'd expect the hotel to provide documentation/evidence for the charges (no, not DNA ;) )

How would you defend yourself against a simple mistake (typo in room number?) being made? Would you just eat the $250 being charged to your account?

The problem is that people whine so much about every little thing and demand refunds, credits, free-this, free-that, because their iron didn't work or because the shampoo didn't smell good, or someone didn't smile; that hotels have to be careful about how much they give away. That, in turn, can mean that truly big problems don't get properly escalated.

The problem here is that the hotel charged the guest's credit card for smoking in the room when the room was occupied by a non-smoker who has a medical history of having breathing problems and probably has been instructed to avoid smoking and to avoid being exposed to smoking.

Is this kind of unauthorized charge really a big problem? Big or small, mistakes happen with regard to charges/charge amounts and some mistakes are recognized by customers and then disputed with the hotel after check-out; however, even monster properties in the Hyatt brand are more responsive about billing issues than was reported for the HR Milwaukee.

For those who don't smoke or allow smoking in the rooms, how best to minimize the chances of this kind of unauthorized charge? Smell something upon entering the room, say something to the front desk? How about for those people whose sense of smell is so very limited that they have zero chance? What happens if maid service, maintenance service or some unauthorized person enters the room and smokes while the hotel guests assigned that room are not there?

I can understand hotels levying such a charge -- even as it's 2-4 times what I've paid at this hotel for many a night -- but the hotel should be well prepared to handle disputes about such charges too while recognizing mistakes do happen.

That said, $250 is not a trivial amount and I'd expect the hotel to provide documentation/evidence for the charges (no, not DNA ;) )

How would you defend yourself against a simple mistake (typo in room number?) being made? Would you just eat the $250 being charged to your account?

I guess DNA would make it easier ;):D

Reading through the story, it appears to me that somebody from the hotel took some photos soon after the couple checked out, which would be enough evidence for me.

$ 250 is not a lot of money, if you have to clean the room thoroughly, especially if you cannot sell the room for some time.

Of course, I would refuse the charge. But I am not really known for leaving cigarettes or ash in the room, but I am actually known for taking all the Blaise Mautin stuff with me

Maybe house keeping came in and was smoking while cleaning. :D

Jokes aside, I'm glad it got taken care of, but why pics wouldnt be shown to someone who has been charged for something they believe they didnt do, is beyond me.

Maybe house keeping came in and was smoking while cleaning. :D

Jokes aside, I'm glad it got taken care of, but why pics wouldnt be shown to someone who has been charged for something they believe they didnt do, is beyond me.

Jokes aside, I've seen housekeeping smoke while cleaning -- more often in smoking rooms than non-smoking rooms.

I've also found cigarette butts on the room floors that weren't there when I left earlier in the day but were there when I returned after housekeeping had come into the (non-smoking) room. If photographed by myself, would that be self-incriminating evidence of my having smoked in the room? As a non-smoker, I'd hope not.

Reading through the story, it appears to me that somebody from the hotel took some photos soon after the couple checked out, which would be enough evidence for me.


How can a hotel take a picture to prove that the guests have smoked in the room after they left?

You can't take a picture of the smell.:confused:

Picture of what? Cigarette butts? Ash? or the puff of smoke that the guests exhaled?

I guess DNA would make it easier ;):D

Reading through the story, it appears to me that somebody from the hotel took some photos soon after the couple checked out, which would be enough evidence for me.


photos of clouds of smoke waffing through the room? Or a couple cigarette butts in a trash can? Not necessarily convincing evidence that it was the couple's room.

$ 250 is not a lot of money, if you have to clean the room thoroughly, especially if you cannot sell the room for some time.

But it's a lot of money if you are charged that amount for something you didn't do.

Of course, I would refuse the charge. But I am not really known for leaving cigarettes or ash in the room, but I am actually known for taking all the Blaise Mautin stuff with me

Me neither/too.

I guess if reports of false smoking remediation charges became common occurrences, I'd start calling the front desk to have someone check me out in the room -- similar to how rental cars are inspected upon return (I generally don't like it when the returning location is closed and they just ask for the keys to be dropped in a key box... but then, car rental companies tend to be more closely related to used car dealerships than Hyatts).

Maybe hotels should just equip their rooms with more sensitive smoke detectors that don't trigger a fire alarm, but notify the front desk of smoking activity, so that someone can be sent to the room to check it out right away.

Jokes aside, I've seen housekeeping smoke while cleaning -- more often in smoking rooms than non-smoking rooms.

I'd be extremely annoyed if housecleaning smoked in my room. While I always request a non-smoking room (or rental car), I have on occasions been on a smoking floor -- with a room that had tolerable odor for a night or two -- but I would NOT want anyone to smoke in my room while it's being occupied by me and my property.

How can a hotel take a picture to prove that the guests have smoked in the room after they left?

Picture of what? Cigarette butts? Ash? or the puff of smoke that the guests exhaled?

I guess they took a picture of some visible evidence...

It seems that the guests are both lawyers, so I somehow doubt that they left their bong in the room... :confused:

Bong? No.

Bong? No.

Why ?

Only, because it is Milwaukee and not West Hollywood.... ;):)

Why ?

Only, because it is Milwaukee and not West Hollywood.... ;):)

No -- Milwaukee is actually a pretty major drug distribution center -- and heavily used by Chicago-area gangs/gang-members -- as Wisconsin DOJ lawyers -- know.