California - SFO to LAS Road Trip

I am planning a road trip from SFO to LAS the primary point of which is to visit Yosemite and Death Valley and would like some feedback on the plans.

Intended dates are 1 Oct - 9 Oct but we have not booked anything yet and the end date is flexible.

I live in YVR and have found some reasonable (but not great) flights into SFO and out of LAS.

I am not intending to spend any time in either SFO or LAS

Intended itinerary is

SFO -> Monterey / Carmel -> Big Sur -> Yosemite -> Death Valley -> LAS

Is this trying to do too much? could skip Big Sur and do that on another trip.

Any tips to avoid a large drop-off fee for the one way car rental?

Any recommendations for accommodation.

The only places available in Yosemite are unheated and in Curry Village and Housekeeping Village. Is it likely to be too cold? If so we could stay outside the park.

Anywhere on this route that we should not miss?

Thanks

I'd skip both LAS and SFO and fly into Fresno (quite close to Yosemite) or Monterrey or maybe even SLO or San Jose. Then, do a circle trip and save on the drop fee.

Yosemite Valley weather in early October is likely to be great, during the day. But, it can get into the thirties or even to freezing at night. Guess if an unheated cabin is okay or not depends on how many blankets you have. I wouldn't worry about it if you have a down type sleeping bag.

If you need other type lodging you might try http://www.yosemitebug.com/. The Bug is close to the entrance to the Park and is kinda an interesting place--especially if you like the Sixties. :D

We did the SFO - LAX drive last year and are ready to make another trip (in the same direction). The coastal scenery is beautiful and there are numerous places where you can take photos.

I don't know availability, as biggestbopper suggested, of flying into someplace other than SFO. IIRC, returning a rental within a certain radius from the rental location will not incur a drop-off charge. Personally, unless there is a compelling reason to return to the originating rental city, I am not a fan of retracing my route.

Enjoy and travel safe.

I hadn't considered flying into Fresno because I just assumed that it would be much more expensive - in fact it isn't nor are the travel times ridiculously long. Doing that round trip might allow us to visit Kings Canyon or Sequoia as well. Thanks for the adice

Of course we would then miss Big Sur - just have to save that for the next trip :)

I would HIGHLY recommend traversing Death Valley and onwards to northwest of Las Vegas via the suggestion I was given, referenced in this post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/7668865-post27.html). It was one of the most amazing days of driving I have ever had

Sounds great but I will be in rental car which is not supposed to be driven on any unpaved road let alone a rough one :)

Driving from Big Sur to Yosemite will be a little awkward. You will either need to drive back north to Monterey and then head east or drive quite a bit out of your way south along a very winding coast road before turning east through Paso Robles and then back northeast to Yosemite. But if you have the time, it's only an hour south of Monterey and, IMO, well worth the short diversion.

I'd skip both LAS and SFO and fly into Fresno (quite close to Yosemite) or Monterrey or maybe even SLO or San Jose. Then, do a circle trip and save on the drop fee.

Yosemite Valley weather in early October is likely to be great, during the day. But, it can get into the thirties or even to freezing at night. Guess if an unheated cabin is okay or not depends on how many blankets you have. I wouldn't worry about it if you have a down type sleeping bag.

If you need other type lodging you might try http://www.yosemitebug.com/. The Bug is close to the entrance to the Park and is kinda an interesting place--especially if you like the Sixties. :D

Whether it's too much depends on you-- how much you like to drive, how many times you want to move hotels, and how much you want to do along the way (e.g., the drive from Yosemite to DV itself is worth a couple of days if you want to stop places like Bodie, Bristlecone Pines, Manzanar, ec.).

I definitely would not fly into Monterrey--that's in Mexico. :-) Flying into Monterey, California, or even Fresno, or SLO, could result in higher air fares, since those are smaller markets, but doesn't hurt to check. You might find a decent fare into Sacramento (SMF), which which is a somewhat larger market than these, but which would still put you closer to Yosemite than would San Francisco. Even flying into Oakland would save you a little bit of driving. If you're going as far as Death Valley, might as well drive to Las Vegas for your flight out. L.A. airports (e.g., Burbank, it not LAX) would be next closest. Returning all the way to the Bay Area or Sacramento to save any drop-fee on the rental car (and there is not always one on one-way rentals, and if there is MAY be $100 or less) wouldn't make sense to me. If you decided to go with just Monterey, Big Sur and Yosemite and skip Death Valley, a roundtrip would make more sense.

In Yosemite, only Camp Curry has tent cabins, among places still open in October, and those should be heated by October, especially if the temps dip. There are, of course, heated rooms in Yosemite Lodge, Ahwahnee, Wawona, and the Park Place. The Yosemite Bug is near Midpines, close to an hour's drive from Yosemite Valley. It's a hostel but also has some private rooms. Not nearly as scenic as Yosemite itslef, IMHO. In Death Valley you have the Furnace Creek Ranch, Furnace Creek Inn and Stovepipe Wells. There are also accommodations in nearby Panamint Springs, Beatty and Death Valley Junction.

If you decide to skip the coast this trip and concentrate on Yosemite, Kings Canyon/Sequoia NP and Death Valley, flying into FAT would make sense. Fresno is only a bit over an hour from Yosemite - if I am driving - or less than 2 hours for first-timers. ;)

In this case, you would forego the route over Tioga Pass and down SR 395 to Death Valley. Instead, you would go the Valley route - Fresno-Yosemite-Fresno-Kings Canyon NP-Sequoia NP-Death Valley via Tehachipi Pass souteast of Bakersfield. A decidedly different driving experience but with its own "charms."

If you decide to skip the coast this trip and concentrate on Yosemite, Kings Canyon/Sequoia NP and Death Valley, flying into FAT would make sense. Fresno is only a bit over an hour from Yosemite - if I am driving - or less than 2 hours for first-timers. ;)

In this case, you would forego the route over Tioga Pass and down SR 395 to Death Valley. Instead, you would go the Valley route - Fresno-Yosemite-Fresno-Kings Canyon NP-Sequoia NP-Death Valley via Tehachipi Pass souteast of Bakersfield. A decidedly different driving experience but with its own "charms."

I've done both routes. Going down the San Joaquin Valley and over Tehachapi Pass to Mojave, then to DV, would be fast, but, IMHO, very boring (a bit less boring if you take Walker Pass past Lake Isabella instead of Tehacnapi Pass). Route over Tioa and down 395 is, again IMHO, one of the more scenic drives in California. Flying into Fresno (FAT) would indeed be closer to Yosemite than even Sacramento, but fares I've seen are higher and/or involve more stops. As I said, worth checking. And you might just hit on a lower fare.

Google Maps, which can be conservative on expected driving speed, says 2 hrs. 41 mins. from Fresno Airport to Yosemite Lodge, which is in Yosemite Valley, not just at the park entrance near Wawona. Says 96 miles, so if someone can drive it in an hour, over mountain roads, they'd be smoking. 3 hrs. 34 mins. from the Sacramento Airport (going the quickest way, not down scenic, historic Hwy. 49), 3 hrs. 53 mins. from San Francisco Airport (less than I thought), and 3 hs. 32 mins. from the Oakland Airport. Says 5 hrs. 48 mins. from Yosemite Lodge to Furnace Creek in Death Valley (where the visitor center is). Side trip to Bodie would add a couple of hours. Enjoy whatever route(s) you decide on.

Thanks for the advice all.

We have decided to fly into and out of Fresno and do a circular trip

Fresno - Kings Canyon + Sequoia - (south route) - Death Valley - (Tioga Pass) - Yosemite - Fresno

Fares to Fresno were lower than I was quoted for YVR-SFO, LAS-YVR and about the same as in and out of LAS

... We have decided to fly into and out of Fresno and do a circular trip.

Fresno - Kings Canyon + Sequoia - (south route) - Death Valley - (Tioga Pass) - Yosemite - Fresno ...
That will make for a very nice trip in October. For the Sequoia Park exit portion, please see my post lower down in this group "Travel Advisory - Sequoia National Park." There are some issues on the main route out of the park to Visalia.

Thanks for the advice all.

We have decided to fly into and out of Fresno and do a circular trip

Fresno - Kings Canyon + Sequoia - (south route) - Death Valley - (Tioga Pass) - Yosemite - Fresno

Fares to Fresno were lower than I was quoted for YVR-SFO, LAS-YVR and about the same as in and out of LAS

Good plan. Mammoth Lakes is a great point to spend a night or two and explore the eastern sierra (mono lake, eastern yosemite, june lakes etc). October is a perfect time to be there with changing leaves and no crowds at all.

Thanks for the advice all.

We have decided to fly into and out of Fresno and do a circular trip

Fresno - Kings Canyon + Sequoia - (south route) - Death Valley - (Tioga Pass) - Yosemite - Fresno

Fares to Fresno were lower than I was quoted for YVR-SFO, LAS-YVR and about the same as in and out of LAS

It's possible that Tioga pass could be already closed in October, although the odds are in your favor. Death Valley could still be rather hot in early October. Furnace Creek Inn, the upscale pre-depression hotel, doesn't open for the season until October 8, but the Ranch -- which is more like a motel -- will be open.

Titus Canyon, mentioned by cblaisd above, is the day trip that has everything, especially when you start with a visit to nearby Rhyolite. I am tempted to say that if you are careful and the road is open, you should try it in your rental car regardless of what the contract says. It is accessible to careful drivers with a 2WD car although higher clearance makes things easier. It's worth changing change rental companies for. But call the Park Service first, the road is not always open.

If you choose to rent a 4WD, I have other suggestions for you, depending on your skill level driving it.

It's possible that Tioga pass could be already closed in October, although the odds are in your favor. Death Valley could still be rather hot in early October.

Yes, I realized that. Hopefully there won't be an early snowfall and that the temperatures are not too high

Furnace Creek Inn, the upscale pre-depression hotel, doesn't open for the season until October 8, but the Ranch -- which is more like a motel -- will be open.

Yes. We are booked in at the ranch

Titus Canyon, mentioned by cblaisd above, is the day trip that has everything, especially when you start with a visit to nearby Rhyolite. I am tempted to say that if you are careful and the road is open, you should try it in your rental car regardless of what the contract says. It is accessible to careful drivers with a 2WD car although higher clearance makes things easier. It's worth changing change rental companies for. But call the Park Service first, the road is not always open.

Are there some rental companies that allow a normal 2WD to be taken on unpaved roads? I am currently booked with Alamo - but can change this if necessary

If you choose to rent a 4WD, I have other suggestions for you, depending on your skill level driving it.
Thanks, but I wasn't intending to get a 4WD

Are there some rental companies that allow a normal 2WD to be taken on unpaved roads? I am currently booked with Alamo - but can change this if necessary

The contracts all seem to have very restrictive language. Even when I rented a 4x4 once that was specifically advertised as "Rent our Jeeps and go off road!!" they handed me a contract that said offroad driving was prohibited. Screw 'em. If you drive carefully nobody will ever know.

As for Yosemite Valley.... When rooms in the park are too expensive-- which is just about always-- I've enjoyed staying at the Cedar Lodge and Yosemite View Lodge outside the park's western entrance on Route 140. See http://www.yosemite-motels.com/index.htm. Of the two, Yosemite View is nicer and closer to the park. It's maybe a 10 minute drive from the gate through the awe inspiring lower Merced Canyon.

The contracts all seem to have very restrictive language. Even when I rented a 4x4 once that was specifically advertised as "Rent our Jeeps and go off road!!" they handed me a contract that said offroad driving was prohibited. Screw 'em. If you drive carefully nobody will ever know.


I just read the details of my credit card car insurance and it says that it doesn't cover "operation of the rental vehicle in violation of the terms of the rental agreement except ... the rental vehicle may be used on publicly maintained gravel roads" i.e. it does cover use on gravel roads

So I will at least be covered for damage to the car :)

...If you drive carefully nobody will ever know.

While true, if the car breaks down two hours or more from the nearest rental agency-affiliated tow shop, you had better have a high limit on your credit card.

....Are there some rental companies that allow a normal 2WD to be taken on unpaved roads? I am currently booked with Alamo - but can change this if necessary....

I've not seen this restriction in many Hertz or Avis rental contracts. Also not in National, but that was before the National/Alamo acquisition by Enterprise.

It's unclear if Titus Canyon would be regarded as a "gravel road." The lower part is on a dry riverbed and might count, but although the road is regularly graded, there isn't any gravel on the first 3/4 of the drive.

While true, if the car breaks down two hours or more from the nearest rental agency-affiliated tow shop, you had better have a high limit on your credit card.

Actually, most off-pavement folks are pretty willing to help each other with a tow strap pull, IF (and it's a big if) you are lucky enough to meet anyone else on the road you broke down on.

While true, if the car breaks down two hours or more from the nearest rental agency-affiliated tow shop, you had better have a high limit on your credit card.

That's an inherent risk of driving in the backcountry. It doesn't matter whether you're driving your own car or a rental. If you get stuck in the rough it can get expensive. Though like RichardInSF said, fellow travelers are usually very helpful.

My admonition to "Drive carefully" in the backcountry is about more than obeying traffic laws. Driving carefully means understanding the limits of your vehicle, your driving skills, and your ability to deal with problems that reasonably might arise.

Just between you and me and the lamppost, there is a totally straight, level, paved stretch of highway in the Panamint Valley which many people take to get to Death Valley. Often you will not even see another car for miles.

On that section of road, people have been known to drive just a bit less carefully....

As to off-pavement travel in an appropriate vehicle, there are sections of road where I have been passed by backpackers! All depends on the conditions.

...It doesn't matter whether you're driving your own car or a rental. If you get stuck in the rough it can get expensive. Though like RichardInSF said, fellow travelers are usually very helpful.

Absolutely agree. At the same time, one time many years ago a very helpful off-roader helped out of a jam in a remote place. He inadvertently did some very minor body damage to my car. I was still very grateful to him, but I also know that if it had been a rental car, their definition of "very minor" is probably not the same as mine ;) (it seems that it's a $1000+ these days no matter what the body damage). If driving my own car (with the super duper version of AAA, I know that I can get an assist - eventually :D)

I've done both routes. Going down the San Joaquin Valley and over Tehachapi Pass to Mojave, then to DV, would be fast, but, IMHO, very boring (a bit less boring if you take Walker Pass past Lake Isabella instead of Tehacnapi Pass).

Actually, even more interesting than doing the Walker Pass route (Highway 178 to 14 to 395) would be to take the even more Northern route over Sherman Pass (178 to Lake Isabella, North along the West side of the late to Kernville, take the Kern River Highway [Mountain Road 99] 20 miles North to the Sherman Pass Road to Nine Mile Canyon Road to 395) Of course the latter is *very* far from the beaten path (no services for 100 miles or so of winding paved) mountain roads. The payoff is spending time in the pines and alpine meadows rather than fairly dull scrub and desert. Additionally, this route takes one through the little town of "Road's End" (it isn't) on the Kern River Highway where Johnny McNally's Lodge (http://www.mcnallysfairviewlodge.com/McNallys/Home.html) has been serving up some of the best local beef on the planet for decades. Of course, the setting owes more to a 1960's fishing camp than a fine steakhouse, since their site backs up to the Kern river...where you can catch some serious rainbow trout if you are so inclined.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

Oh, and if your travels take you through Bishop, CA....you definitely want to stop at Mahogany Smoked Meats (http://www.smokedmeats.com/) for tasty treats...

Actually, even more interesting than doing the Walker Pass route (Highway 178 to 14 to 395) would be to take the even more Northern route over Sherman Pass (178 to Lake Isabella, North along the West side of the late to Kernville, take the Kern River Highway [Mountain Road 99] 20 miles North to the Sherman Pass Road to Nine Mile Canyon Road to 395) Of course the latter is *very* far from the beaten path (no services for 100 miles or so of winding paved) mountain roads. The payoff is spending time in the pines and alpine meadows rather than fairly dull scrub and desert. Additionally, this route takes one through the little town of "Road's End" (it isn't) on the Kern River Highway where Johnny McNally's Lodge (http://www.mcnallysfairviewlodge.com/McNallys/Home.html) has been serving up some of the best local beef on the planet for decades. Of course, the setting owes more to a 1960's fishing camp than a fine steakhouse, since their site backs up to the Kern river...where you can catch some serious rainbow trout if you are so inclined.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

Oh, and if your travels take you through Bishop, CA....you definitely want to stop at Mahogany Smoked Meats (http://www.smokedmeats.com/) for tasty treats...

Is this the road that has (or had) the small ski area on it? I haven't gone this way in decades and it sounds very inviting!

I am currently intending to drive through Sequoia National Monument and then through Kernville and over Walker Pass.

Will consider Sherman Pass depending upon time and weather.

Is the detour though Springville and Sequoia National Monument worth while or are we better just going straight down San Joaquin valley?

We will going back over Tioga Pass after Death Valley to visit Yosemite before returning to Fresno
.

I dunno much about Giant Sequoia National Monument (which is part of Sequoia National Forest, not the park), but I do know about the Central Valley. In terms of scenery, when you've seen the Central Valley for about 10 minutes, you can move on elsewhere.

Along 395 northbound from the Owens Valley, there are a few other stopovers. Manzanar detention camp is a scary reminder that we were definitely not perfect in WW2. The tufa formations at Mono Lake (very, very different from what are also called tufa formations that you will see outside of Trona, California, on the way to Death Valley) are also worth a stop.

... Is the detour though Springville and Sequoia National Monument worth while or are we better just going straight down San Joaquin valley? ...
Disclaimer: I haven't been up SR190 in awhile so this is just based on hearsay.

Last I heard, the highway above Springville is in kind-of rough shape for part of the way. The "Sequoia National Monument" is really just a renaming of large tracts of the National Forest to prevent logging and other development. President Clinton's contribution to the local economy. :rolleyes: There really isn't anything there except long drives through a lot of trees.

I'd say do this drive only if you have plenty of extra time and haven't been burned out on trees and single-lane mountain driving by the time you get there. Otherwise, I'd say just stay on SR99 for another hour to Bakersfield and get a faster start on the rest of the trip. You won't miss much. 99 through the Valley isn't scenic but is MUCH faster than looping up through Porterville, Springville, Quaking Aspen and back down to rejoin the highway.

Got back from the trip yesterday and had a great time.

Only problem was that Tioga Pass road was closed for much of last week and we ended up driving the long way round from Lee Vining to Yosemite. Even more annoying was that the road re-opened the next day (when we had originally intended to going over the pass) even though we had been told by the park rangers that this was unlikely to happen :D Guess that it what happens when you plan a trip across the Sierra Nevada in fall. The snow also meant that Devils Postpile was closed - which we would have liked to visit as well

The final route that we took was from Fresno - Kings Canyon - Sequioa - Visallia and straight down the San Joaquin valley to Bakersfield across the Tehachapi pass (yes the drive is boring) to Barstow and then a detour through Mojave National preserve to Death valley. Death Valley - Lone Pine - Bishop - Lee Vining - Gardnerville - across Carson pass - Sonora - Yosemite and back to Fresno.

Didn't have to ponder whether to drive through Titus Canyon or not since it was closed.

Thanks for the advice.