Texas - Rare Take off today (16 Aug 2010) on DFW 31L

Been flying my commute to the west coast, going on the 7th year, basically weekly. First time ever took off from DFW 31L. Landed that (13 R of course) several times, but never took off from it until today. They had 18R/36L shut down for some maintenance/repair. I am sure they normally send the NRT 777(s) from that runway, I am guessing these they sent to the east side, rather than 31L take off.

Wonder how long this will be going on; might affect arrivals more than departures depending how long it might go on.

CEP

I've been flying to DFW weekly from LAX for the last few months - and have taken off from 31L many times - and I've also landed on 13R many times...

This last trip was a first time landing on 17 L (not 17C)....followed by an hour wait on the tarmac while the thunderstorms passed...Seemed like an odd runway to land on when coming from the east....

wow, you must really fly at lot and be very attentive to even know which runway you're landing on.

I've been flying to DFW weekly from LAX for the last few months - and have taken off from 31L many times - and I've also landed on 13R many times...

This last trip was a first time landing on 17 L (not 17C)....followed by an hour wait on the tarmac while the thunderstorms passed...Seemed like an odd runway to land on when coming from the east....

It is actually common to land on 17L from the east. It would be odd to land on that from the west. Figure all of the traffic landing DFW from east of Dallas comes over the two fixes to the east. This is about 70% of the traffic and lands on 17L/C, because they need two runways a lot of times. The traffic from west of Dallas lands on 18R. If they need it they also have 13R, but that seldom happens.

To put it in perspective, on a clear day when DFW has 4 runways to land on, they can accept about 130 arrivals an hour. The BEST rates for any of the 3 NY area airports is about 45 an hour. Even in bad weather, DFW can still land about 100 an hour, while LGA can do about 30!

wow, you must really fly at lot and be very attentive to even know which runway you're landing on.
Playing "Name That Runway" helps keep me sane.

A mainline jet using 13L would be really rare.

wow, you must really fly at lot and be very attentive to even know which runway you're landing on.

For many of us on here, knowing the runway configuration of most airports, especially big hubs like DFW when you're AAdvantage is a given. When I was growing up in Kansas City, a neighbor TWA pilot would give me his old Jeppesen charts as new ones arrived for his flight bag. I had a complete set of the USA before I graduated from high school. That's how I did it. How about the rest of you?

For many of us on here, knowing the runway configuration of most airports, especially big hubs like DFW when you're AAdvantage is a given. When I was growing up in Kansas City, a neighbor TWA pilot would give me his old Jeppesen charts as new ones arrived for his flight bag. I had a complete set of the USA before I graduated from high school. That's how I did it. How about the rest of you?

For others of us, runways are really long driveways with some funny numbers on them.

For others of us, runways are really long driveways with some funny numbers on them.

Well, runways aren't that difficult to figure out. They are numbered based on the compass direction. Just Google a bit and you'll learn more than you thought you ever could know.

And there are VERY good reasons for frequent flyers to be familiar with runway layout. I use runway layout to estimate how much taxi time will be involved, based on the distance from the terminals and whether any active runways must be crossed in the process to getting to/from them.

For example, those of us who fly into JFK regularly know that when we approach by making a huge circle over Long Island and the South, then we will be landing on Runway 22L, and we should budget at least another 20-25 minutes of taxi time to get to T8. Not only does Rwy 22L end at the farthest possible opposite corner of the airport, but it also requires crossing Rwy 22R which usually is operating as the active departures runway when 22L is being used for landings. So, it can be a long, long wait to get from the end of 22L over to T8.

But, if we approach from the east and land on Runway 31R, then we will exit the runway directly next to T8, so it will be a quick taxi to the gate.

Knowing these kinds of things can make a big difference!

Knowing these kinds of things can make a big difference!

Like, Do I have time to finish this drink, or should I order another.... ;)


But seriously, I know which runway I land on as well... I pay less attention to where I take off, unless I know it is a short connection.

And there are VERY good reasons for frequent flyers to be familiar with runway layout. I use runway layout to estimate how much taxi time will be involved, based on the distance from the terminals and whether any active runways must be crossed in the process to getting to

Knowing these kinds of things can make a big difference!

I don't begrudge anyone knowing or caring as much as they want to about runways. But I am not convinced that this provides you any information you need as a passenger, that the following items do not...a) your watch b) the time they open the door once parked and c) the time your next flight leaves

In other breaking news, a few years ago I saw a rare takeoff from runway 22 at LGA as I was driving on the Grand Central Parkway. Surprised the heck out of me.

wow, you must really fly at lot and be very attentive to even know which runway you're landing on.

How else would you know what to write in your flight log? :cool:

For many of us on here, knowing the runway configuration of most airports, especially big hubs like DFW when you're AAdvantage is a given. When I was growing up in Kansas City, a neighbor TWA pilot would give me his old Jeppesen charts as new ones arrived for his flight bag. I had a complete set of the USA before I graduated from high school. That's how I did it. How about the rest of you?

FlightAware.com has Airport Diagrams and IFR Plates for most (all?) U. S. airports. For example:http://vox.flightaware.com/resources/airport/KDFW/APD/AIRPORT+DIAGRAM/png

I don't begrudge anyone knowing or caring as much as they want to about runways. But I am not convinced that this provides you any information you need as a passenger, that the following items do not...a) your watch b) the time they open the door once parked and c) the time your next flight leaves

While there's certainly nothing you can do about it, it is nice to be able to manage expectations. I suppose it's also helpful for those being picked up by relatives/friends.

In other breaking news, a few years ago I saw a rare takeoff from runway 22 at LGA as I was driving on the Grand Central Parkway. Surprised the heck out of me.

Wow. I didn't think that departure was ever used! And my office window looks out over the Queens approach corridor.

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We'll let this very interesting (for some of us) discussion percolate here in the AA Forum for a while, after which this thread will likely move to the South forum, where general discussions about DFW are housed.

/Moderator

In other breaking news, a few years ago I saw a rare takeoff from runway 22 at LGA as I was driving on the Grand Central Parkway. Surprised the heck out of me.

Aborted landing?

The traffic from west of Dallas lands on 18R. If they need it they also have 13R, but that seldom happens.

Happens all the time, actually. Runway 13R is the most common runway assignment for aircraft arriving DFW from the NW cornerpost (UKW=Bowie) when the airport is in a south flow.

Similarly, the other diagonal runway 31R is the most common runway assignment for DFW arrivals from the SE cornerpost (CQY) when the airport is in a north flow.

Happens all the time, actually. Runway 13R is the most common runway assignment for aircraft arriving DFW from the NW cornerpost (UKW=Bowie) when the airport is in a south flow.

Similarly, the other diagonal runway 31R is the most common runway assignment for DFW arrivals from the SE cornerpost (CQY) when the airport is in a north flow.

13R is used not-infrequently for arrivals from TPA/MCO/MIA. If landing from those destinations to the south, typically it's 17C... although I recently got 17L which made a heck of a long taxi to the gate.

It is actually common to land on 17L from the east. It would be odd to land on that from the west. Figure all of the traffic landing DFW from east of Dallas comes over the two fixes to the east. This is about 70% of the traffic and lands on 17L/C, because they need two runways a lot of times. The traffic from west of Dallas lands on 18R. If they need it they also have 13R, but that seldom happens.


OK...i know i am tired...I got the LAX-DFW right, but I incorrectly said coming from the east......LAX is west...
duh..

Well, runways aren't ...
I was looking forward to your participation on this thread.

Happens all the time, actually. Runway 13R is the most common runway assignment for aircraft arriving DFW from the NW cornerpost (UKW=Bowie) when the airport is in a south flow.

Similarly, the other diagonal runway 31R is the most common runway assignment for DFW arrivals from the SE cornerpost (CQY) when the airport is in a north flow.

Actually, I believe the UKW traffic would go to 18R and the JEN traffic would go to 13R when they do use it, otherwise the UKW traffic and the JEN traffic would have to cross and there would be no reason to do that.

Actually, I believe the UKW traffic would go to 18R and the JEN traffic would go to 13R when they do use it, otherwise the UKW traffic and the JEN traffic would have to cross and there would be no reason to do that.

Nope. Trust me: the crossing you describe (JEN arrivals vectored to 18R via a high right downwind; UKW arrivals crossing below on a straight-in to 13R) is the standard procedure when DFW is in a south flow.

I'm sure on some rare occasions it's happened but in all my DFW flying I can't actually remember a 13R landing off of the JEN arrival. UKW to 13R happens all the time though.

Nope. Trust me: the crossing you describe (JEN arrivals vectored to 18R via a high right downwind; UKW arrivals crossing below on a straight-in to 13R) is the standard procedure when DFW is in a south flow.

I'm sure on some rare occasions it's happened but in all my DFW flying I can't actually remember a 13R landing off of the JEN arrival. UKW to 13R happens all the time though.

Not that I don't believe you, because I don't watch the DFW flight tracker too often, but JEN and JUMBO arrivals from the SW are landing 13R right now (1:00pm ET), along with UKW arrivals from the NW:

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KDFW

I do see the high downwind crossovers you mentioned as standard procedure, but at present, it's happening for arrivals from the SE, going left to 17C over arrivals from the NE going to 17L.


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And now we are surely not talking about AA, so please continue to follow this thread in the South Forum.

/Moderator

Not that I don't believe you, because I don't watch the DFW flight tracker too often, but JEN and JUMBO arrivals from the SW are landing 13R right now (1:00pm ET), along with UKW arrivals from the NW:

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KDFW

I do see the high downwind crossovers you mentioned as standard procedure, but at present, it's happening for arrivals from the SE, going left to 17C over arrivals from the NE going to 17L.

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]


FWIW, I was at the DFW TRACON today watching this. Every JEN arrival went to 13R, and if needed, the UKW arrival would go to 17. There were no JEN arrivals to 17.

Aborted landing?You know, that hadn't occurred to me. Certainly a possibility.

FWIW, I was at the DFW TRACON today watching this. Every JEN arrival went to 13R, and if needed, the UKW arrival would go to 17. There were no JEN arrivals to 17.

Thinking of a handle change to zfwatc12? ;)

Not that I don't believe you, because I don't watch the DFW flight tracker too often, but JEN and JUMBO arrivals from the SW are landing 13R right now (1:00pm ET), along with UKW arrivals from the NW:

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KDFW

I do see the high downwind crossovers you mentioned as standard procedure, but at present, it's happening for arrivals from the SE, going left to 17C over arrivals from the NE going to 17L.

FWIW, I was at the DFW TRACON today watching this. Every JEN arrival went to 13R, and if needed, the UKW arrival would go to 17. There were no JEN arrivals to 17.


Very interesting. Any idea if this is a recent change and, if so, why?

As I said, I can't remember a 13R landing off of the JEN arrival and I know that on the UKW arrival I've done 13R probably 5x as often as the 18s (and landing on the 17s from UKW has only ever happened late, late at night when traffic is nonexistent!)

Edited to add possible theory: If 18R is still OTS could that mean shifting JEN arrivals from 18R to 13R, UKW arrivals from 13R to 17C, and increased usage of 17L by BYP/CQY arrivals??? I do seem to be seeing more 17L landings the past week or so...

Saw some mainline departures off of 31L at lunchtime today (25Aug).

Thanks, OP and others, for the info. This is a fascinating thread! ^

The things one learns from Flyertalk!