gleff
Jun 2, 10, 9:04 am
With thanks to Mikel at Webflyer ^
Note that this transcript is verbatim except that:
* I removed some real names as requested to protect individual privacy
* The chat transcript logs IP addresses and I went through and manually removed those, also for member privacy.
* I had to remove smilies because an individual Flyertalk post can have only 20 images.
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:00:52 PM)
According to Google it is now 4pm eastern time
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:00:59 PM)
*ding*
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:02 PM)
While I certainly expect more folks to be joining us...
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:01:09 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:10 PM)
I think we should make the most of our time together.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:21 PM)
We've got some members and TalkBoard members together
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:01:24 PM)
ok., Can we chat with you?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:34 PM)
And we don't have an established or enforced agenda, we are here for you!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:01:47 PM)
ok.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:53 PM)
While there are certainly some hot topics at the moment, I think we can open up the chat... we'll try to take a topic at a time though
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:01:54 PM)
i think the members should be grateful for the chance to rub shoulders with us
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:01:58 PM)
yay the aristocrasy has to bend to the plebians
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:02:21 PM)
PFK, we must all slum it sometimes - noblesse oblige et al
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:02:27 PM)
I'm probably tyhe most kettle one here
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:02:31 PM)
But let's let folks throw out their questions.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:02:37 PM)
I'll start then. As a willing and (sometimes reluctant Do organizer), I have an issue that OZ brought up in the OZ fest thread. I have seen the issue in Buenos Aires and Singapore.
wharvey (May 29, 2010 1:02:44 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:02:47 PM)
Just a disclaimer first - the opinions I express here are purely personal and not those of me as a Moderator or of the TalkBoard as a whole
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:03:02 PM)
Look forward to oposhomes' question on this
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:03:05 PM)
@opushomes - can you remind us what that issue is?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:03:35 PM)
And while opushomes types
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:03:39 PM)
Hello Whanvey, how are you?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:03:49 PM)
wharvey
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:03:52 PM)
Please allow me to remind folks that this is a TalkBoard chat and not a personal chat.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:03:59 PM)
ok.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:04:13 PM)
Let's try to keep things focused on TalkBoard business and concerns for the community as a whole, and any personal back-and-forth can be done privately.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:04:30 PM)
That is, we have members who eat and drink and duck out without paying either anything or their fair share. Discussions have led me to believe that TB has no interest in perhaps setting guidelines for banning, suspending or other sanctions for these individuals. Is there anything that can be done.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:04:32 PM)
ok. understand. thanks for your efforts.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:04:47 PM)
Are we making any progress on combining the Midwest/Fronitier forums?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:04:58 PM)
Good question, lets take opushomes issue first
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:05:05 PM)
yes, my opinion it would be merge the thread F9/YX.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:05:06 PM)
And remember that we are each speaking privately for ourselves
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:05:20 PM)
there may be followup as a group but for now we are individual talkboard eembers
N1Hawk (May 29, 2010 1:05:30 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:05:48 PM)
opus -- my view on that is that what one does off-the-board (inc. at a FT do) is not subject to jurisdiction of FT
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:05:58 PM)
So let's let the board members contribute, but as for myself I'll say that off-line behavior is off-line behavior and I don't think we want to establish a court to discipline folks for failure to pay.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:06:17 PM)
@opus - good question. It's hard to enforce that in my opinion because I've been at such a do and what it came down to was a lot of he said/she said/he drank/no he didn't drink etc. A prepaid dinner is one solution but I have a problem disciplining someone on FT for off-FT behavior that might be difficult to prove.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:06:24 PM)
That said there are certain guidelines that we ask of folks who have DOs, such as to make them open to all FTers if we want to promote them on Flyertalk.
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:06:37 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:06:40 PM)
My view on the ducking out, is that The Guidelines don't allow Do's to exclude anyone from Flyertalk, but in terms of cash collection perhaps advance payment is an option, although I realise it's hard work
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:06:43 PM)
Hello O2k
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:06:56 PM)
greetings
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:07:01 PM)
greetings to you.
N1Hawk (May 29, 2010 1:07:08 PM)
Greetings
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:07:09 PM)
And I can certainly imagine certain people becoming problems where that condition could be relaxed. But again, advance payment is a good practice, I know this was done successfully at the DC DO I attended part of a couple weeks back.
N1Hawk (May 29, 2010 1:07:32 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:07:38 PM)
I'm open to hearing suggestions but I'm not comfortable creating TOS rules and discipline for off-line behavior, it's just not something we're equipped to judge and enforce.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:07:44 PM)
Alternatively, don't make it a FT DO and you can invite anyone you wish, but of course it cannot be advertised on FT then
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:07:49 PM)
I'm not a talk board member, but for gross misconduct I thik a local community should be able to not allow members to attend/be persona non grata
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:08:16 PM)
How does one prove the 'gross misconduct'?
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:08:22 PM)
I agree it is advisable to have advance payment in one's home country. But the problems that I have encountered have been in other countries where the organizer does not live. I.E. Argentina and Singapore.
no-backpacker (May 29, 2010 1:08:24 PM)
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Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:08:27 PM)
@PFKMan23 - if someone is suspended from FT, they are technically only allowed at the do if the host asssents. They are PNG otherwise.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:08:28 PM)
I was a admin for a forum that had get togethers all over he US and we basically let the organizers disallow certain people if a pattern of misconduct was established
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:08:53 PM)
Yes, it will be violations of the forums rules and it will subject to get disciplinary actions against the members.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:09:06 PM)
spiff- I get that but thing is, from what I can tell that is/will not be a bannable offense
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:09:23 PM)
or is it?
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:09:27 PM)
That steps in the pervue of the Mods, who wrote the Guidelines, but I suppose Spiff could raise it as TB liaison if it's an issue?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:09:27 PM)
yes.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:09:33 PM)
Bad conduct is not a reason to exclude someone from a do. All FTers who are not suspended must be able to attend a publicly advertised do. We don't allow people to be 'voted off the island'.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:09:33 PM)
So if I take OZ's position that I have the right to tell you to leave, there is no problem with TB.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:09:41 PM)
airliners.net has a regulation that if a banned user is allowed to attend a *do* then all other participants at that do are suspended for the duration of the users ban
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:09:54 PM)
ok
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:10:01 PM)
interesting approach
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:10:02 PM)
You won't necessary go back on the airliners.net anymore.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:10:08 PM)
and the public reaction to that has been "...?"
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:10:08 PM)
I wouldn't want us to model ourselves on airliners.net!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:10:25 PM)
Just stay where you are.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:10:28 PM)
I think that's a wierd way to do things
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:10:28 PM)
especially since some people dont even know who is at a do let alone their status!
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:10:37 PM)
a/net is weird
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:10:38 PM)
well right
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:10:49 PM)
right. You don't have to worried about it anymore.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:10:53 PM)
so was airwhiners
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:11:00 PM)
i think its fair that any host of any event has the right to ask anyone to leave
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:11:00 PM)
no, no longer existed.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:11:28 PM)
@B747-437B - no that's not the case if the do is public
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:11:31 PM)
He has been already shutown the airwhiners.net.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:11:45 PM)
I've long wondered if we didn't need some sort of 'this is how we handled xxx when arranging a DO document' with tips from previous organisers
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:11:57 PM)
spiff -- it can be public but nothing prevents him from asking the person to leave politely
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:11:57 PM)
Does anyone else have a strong suggestion? I know that some members have done good work producing best practices for DOs and we can certainly encourage better toolkit development to help organizers prevent problems like getting stiffed, in other words how can we support our members?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:12:11 PM)
perhaps this is something that needs to be discussed among TB and the mods or something?
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:12:19 PM)
"i say old chap, you are rather a cad - would you mind buggering off terribly much?"
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:12:21 PM)
@Markie I think missydarlin had some kind do FAQ put together or at least might be asked to do so
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:12:24 PM)
Agree gleff
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:12:30 PM)
me, too.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:12:48 PM)
back to the YX/F9 question..............
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:12:59 PM)
ok.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:13:02 PM)
@gleff - yes I think we can get a best practices/FAQ for dos that address both of these questions - payments and attendees
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:13:16 PM)
lets try to talks about F9/YX should do consider to merge the thread.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:13:16 PM)
@Spiff - agreed
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:13:31 PM)
Ok, I think we're agreed to take that as an action item in some form.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:13:32 PM)
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Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:13:36 PM)
Folks, can we let gleff steer the meeting?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:13:37 PM)
Are we ready to move onto the next question?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:13:44 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:13:45 PM)
sure.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:13:48 PM)
I stand with OZ having experienced the situation a couple of times that if I run into it again, it is my perogative to throw your butt out of the function. If you guys want to sanction me for the actions as a result of the miscreants, so be it.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:13:52 PM)
finally!
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:14:12 PM)
had problems logging in.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:14:32 PM)
@opus - we don't do discipline - that would be for Randy/moderators to decide
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:14:41 PM)
RSVP would you restate your question?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:14:49 PM)
I think we can take the next issue
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:14:54 PM)
Hi, loggint in late. HOw does this work?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:14:56 PM)
And take an action item for DO best practices
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:15:13 PM)
thanks folks
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:15:18 PM)
We are taking a question at a time, giving TalkBoard membes a chance to react, and soliciting additional input from the community.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:15:21 PM)
YX /F9? Are we amking any progress?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:15:36 PM)
So can I ask a question?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:15:42 PM)
go ahead.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:15:45 PM)
Talking personaly I'm not for merging until they merge the schemes properly
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:15:52 PM)
RSVP I think the answer is yes -- we certainly see the need coming to merge the forums as we have done with DL/NW, and others.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:15:56 PM)
The question becomes when.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:15:57 PM)
lucky was supposed to report to the community about this wasnt he?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:16:01 PM)
@stimpy - gleff's running/moderating the meeting
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:16:10 PM)
Stimpy, let's handle this one. and then we'll take the next!
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:16:13 PM)
B747-437B, he did.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:16:31 PM)
yep, just found it
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:16:34 PM)
you do?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:16:35 PM)
how?
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:16:41 PM)
soone rather than later would be prudent.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:16:59 PM)
@RSVP - my position is that we should soon integrate these forums when the deal is solid and a date for the merger is firm. We're not quite there yet.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:17:12 PM)
Basically we're discussing it and the question is when to merge. For me right now they remain different programs and I think it would be confusing to merge them but the right time will certainly be in the near future. Of course each TalkBoard member will feel differently on the right time, and the forums will be merged when 2/3rds feel it has become the right time
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:17:20 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:17:31 PM)
We have a sense for when it might happen kinda sorta but we're not really dealing with a merged program yet.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:17:42 PM)
not yet.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:17:46 PM)
But I think it's fine for other members on this chat to offer contrary opinons and persuad if y'all wish.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:17:53 PM)
How much longer when F9/YX will merge the thread?
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:18:08 PM)
NW/DL was a merger of companies, this a merger of brands.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:18:17 PM)
Right.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:18:35 PM)
Two different issues.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:18:52 PM)
I think the issue in both cases is merger of frequent flyer programs.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:19:07 PM)
yes, of course.
frogface63 (May 29, 2010 1:19:23 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:19:30 PM)
if the standard is a common operating certificate, we should pool all issues by commuter partners in different forums from mainline
frogface63 (May 29, 2010 1:19:55 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:19:58 PM)
Hah! How long would we have kept America West Flight Fund as a separate forum then?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:20:07 PM)
its gone already.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:20:13 PM)
No longer exists.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:20:24 PM)
It is became US Airways Dividend Miles program.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:20:52 PM)
and any Lufthansa routes operated by bmi should be discussed in the bmi forum
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:21:15 PM)
Other perspectives or anyone who wants to make the case that the opinions expressed so far -- that merger will make sense soon but not yet, when plans are clear for program integration -- is too conservative?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:21:35 PM)
@gleff - that's where I am currently
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:21:42 PM)
Also me
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:21:46 PM)
concur
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:21:53 PM)
Sounds reasonable to me
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:21:58 PM)
I agree. Wait til the merger is done
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:21:59 PM)
I agree.
wharvey (May 29, 2010 1:22:11 PM)
seems to follow past precedence... see no reason to change that practice in this case
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:22:14 PM)
right. Just try to be more patience for awhile.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:22:24 PM)
there is always a chance the merger may not happen anyways. Small chance, but tis there
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:22:25 PM)
I see I am just spinning my wheels.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:22:38 PM)
We appreciate the spiinning!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:22:42 PM)
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:22:49 PM)
I do realise you have strong views on it RSVP
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:23:32 PM)
good chatting guys. Let's do it again sometime.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:23:38 PM)
If there aren't other views being expressed do we want to take the next question? I know stimpy said he had one, is that one next or anyone desperate to jump the queue?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:23:42 PM)
RSVP, stick around!
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:23:45 PM)
What do TB members think about how good Flyertalk is with Internationalization? I am happy with the Euro railroad forum and the Accor forum. I was not happy with the decision to ban foreign language sig's, but I see that decision was recinded. But you all are much more involved with Flyertalk than I am so I wanted to see how you feel about this subject?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:24:05 PM)
Good question.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:24:13 PM)
Need to think about that one, actually.
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:24:19 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:24:38 PM)
speaking as a non-US member, i think FT is overwhelmingly localised
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:24:42 PM)
@stimpy - I think that FT could become less US-centric. I'd love to hear some more suggestions as to how we could help promote that.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:24:59 PM)
it is less a case of US-centric forums as regional centric ones
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:25:11 PM)
As a European I do think FT is too US-centric, but having said that I am not sure it really shows very much in the points and miles forums which, for me, is the core of the board
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:25:16 PM)
go to the BA forum or the AC forum or the QF forum and they are speaking a different language of english!!!
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:25:25 PM)
I don't think FT should be giving preferrential treatment to non-US programmes if they are tiny.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:25:26 PM)
The sigs decision was a Moderator decision.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:25:28 PM)
I asked Randy about diversity training for Moderators. When people hear about diversity training, they think race and sex. But I think they should think about it in the sense of globalism
no-backpacker (May 29, 2010 1:25:43 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:25:47 PM)
I would consider to offered work for moderating.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:25:50 PM)
@B747-437B - I spend a lot of time in QF and I speak perfectly good English.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:26:00 PM)
not to mention that a topic that is prefaced with "OT:" really should be posted elsewhere to begin with, not just for the benefit of your own chums in your cozy little forum
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:26:09 PM)
There are more international Mods than ever before - I used to be the only one!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:26:11 PM)
Me, too. I am very good English.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:26:31 PM)
@stimpy - can you give us some suggestions as to what we could do in terms of global diversity?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:26:38 PM)
yes Markie, but an international mod does not always mean a fair mod
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:26:39 PM)
I do think we need a common language for the community, and I was frankly a little concerned over non-English signatures for purely administrative/housekeeping reasons. But we also have good folks who report problems and translations in those cases are pretty easy with online tools. I'm happy to see Flyertalk grow and develop more of its non-US focus, we are a travel communit after all, and I really value the lcoal knowledge. And I sure love some of my non-US based programs! And we do need to be vigilant of our global reach and aspirations. The TalkBoard originally had a non-US requirement for a certain # of members, so we recognize this as an institution. Mostly I'd love to hear suggestions on how we get there, and specific problems that may need work.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:27:04 PM)
Spiff, like I said, the Euro rail and Accor forum are great adds
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:27:34 PM)
So... this is important, something for us to be aware of, and an area where we could use member input and suggestions.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:27:38 PM)
Do you want to speak about UA/CO will consider to merge the thread or not.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:28:00 PM)
maybe set up some way for people to report issues that suppress global views and viewpoints
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:28:20 PM)
give it some focus
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:28:23 PM)
not sure I understand, can you give me an example?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:28:28 PM)
@stimpy - have you some examples?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:28:30 PM)
sure.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:28:34 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:28:35 PM)
I think any member of TB would want to hear about that Stimpy
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:29:02 PM)
I think the issue is broader than language. It is also a matter of cultural sensitivity. The Kuching trip in January was pretty much IMHO a failed experiment in imparting a bit of cultural sensitivity to people who act like typical tourists (with some minor exceptions)..
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:29:16 PM)
well if I see a post that argues against a global view, I could of course report it to a Mod, but if that Mod is also US centric it does no good
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:29:32 PM)
Do you have to be reconsider with CO/UA want to merge the thread?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:29:36 PM)
that goes back to diversity training for mods
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:29:52 PM)
Yes, perhaps Spiff can suggest this for the next Mod Do?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:29:54 PM)
@stimpy - is your example a TOS violation
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:29:54 PM)
or I could report it to Randy, or some other back-channel,
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:29:55 PM)
i think this might be an interesting aspect to an Ambassador program as well
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:29:56 PM)
Pardon my ignorance but could you expand on what you mean by US centric?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:30:13 PM)
@Spiff - not sure
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:30:31 PM)
@Markie/gleff - I'll take an action item on the globalization diversity
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:30:31 PM)
aa post that argues against a global view? B747-437B may be correct re ambassador program but i'm trying to wrap my mind around more specifics to better understand
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:30:34 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:30:39 PM)
I view it as being most of the posts in, for example OMNI, are US issues
wharvey (May 29, 2010 1:30:46 PM)
can anyone detail what the Kuching issue was?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:30:50 PM)
sorry, I am not armed with real examples at this moment
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:30:58 PM)
I should have prepared!
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:31:20 PM)
that's fair and great to get it out there, i just tend to work from the specific to the general (induce to deduce) rather than the other way 'round
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:31:22 PM)
yes Omni is terribly US with a tiny bit of UK
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:31:25 PM)
Could that be a function moreso of the posting composition in OMNI?
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:31:25 PM)
Well if you let us know or perhaps gleff as Pres, as they come up we can review them
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:31:30 PM)
but nothing you can do about that
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:31:44 PM)
ie: posters are mainly from the US/UK?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:31:46 PM)
Feel free to shoot me something after the chat or when you notice it and we can pull it back into the hopper indeed.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:31:51 PM)
I am NOT advocating regulation of Omni.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:32:07 PM)
me either. I don't usually it very often.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:32:07 PM)
That's off-topic for this chat! (hahaha)
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:32:10 PM)
That train has left the station stimpy
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:32:16 PM)
omni post counts on the other hand....
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:32:24 PM)
Ok, I think we may be ready for another question?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:32:31 PM)
sure.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:32:50 PM)
may i ask a qsn?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:32:50 PM)
Has there been any progress on the more respective mileage run forum?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:32:53 PM)
My opinion it would like to know about MR discussions fourms will put on the restrictions.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:33:04 PM)
restrictive*
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:33:06 PM)
B747-437B, yes, but lets let the members go first if ok
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:33:06 PM)
ah PFK brings up the topic I wanted to raise
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:33:23 PM)
Let's talk about this one then
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:33:23 PM)
It seems like it was put up for a vote and then all discussion stopped
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:33:40 PM)
Because it was too many people on MR discussions. It will have to put on the restrictions all members isn't allow to post there.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:33:44 PM)
I took a group of 15 FTers to Kuching Sarawak after SinDo. It was not a tour. Perhaps if you have time, go to Community Post SinDo 2010 (kuching) and read what I proposed. Unfortunately, the issue that I first raised in this discussion included an individual or two who were somewhat disruptive. Everyone kind of went there own way.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:34:03 PM)
MR forum should stay the same. I'd remind you that may deals have come from newbees
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:34:12 PM)
right.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:34:13 PM)
PFK - it is presently an open vote for the TB (open till 7th June IIRC)
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:34:28 PM)
right.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:34:33 PM)
I do agree with the point where someone said you have to be logged in to read/post
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:34:43 PM)
yes, me too.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:34:50 PM)
I think we're all voting on the first phase of a possible change - but are some time away from a final decision
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:35:01 PM)
dan - i concur in principle, but im not sure where i stand on a login restriction
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:35:04 PM)
Of course this is an opportunity to lobby a handful of us
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:35:22 PM)
@PFKMan23 - I'm willing to endorse a forum that has some kind of access requirement (not sure what that is yet) but not at all willing to sanction someone who blabs, ala AFWD.
UAL4life (May 29, 2010 1:35:31 PM)
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UAL4life (May 29, 2010 1:35:36 PM)
wow
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:35:38 PM)
Past my bedtime. Thanks for discussing my question. Good Night
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:35:44 PM)
Goodnight to you.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:35:47 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:35:47 PM)
Sleep well!
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:35:48 PM)
The only restriction I'm open to *considering* is login, but even there I think I'm the most skeptical of all Talkboard members on this issue, my general take is that travel information on flyertalk be open to all
UAL4life (May 29, 2010 1:35:48 PM)
there are people in at this time of day?
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:35:55 PM)
I like the log in requirement
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:35:58 PM)
Do you agree wiht me about MR discussions thread will put on restrictions/
UAL4life (May 29, 2010 1:36:02 PM)
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PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:36:05 PM)
If we're talking post count are we looking at Coupon connection level?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:36:08 PM)
747, and you'll always have posters like Airfarewatchdog who are old FT members... that Blow a deal
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:36:56 PM)
Do you consider to put on the restrictions by MR discussions forum?
wharvey (May 29, 2010 1:36:56 PM)
I am with Gleff on this one, travel info should remain open, keep restrictions on the two forums that have it.... but add it back to OMNI...
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:37:00 PM)
@PFKMan23 - that may be jumping the gun a bit and I'm not sure I'd be ok with that level of restriction
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:37:12 PM)
I was initially skeptical that Airfarewatchdog had actually been the cause of killing the 'easy' fuel dumps with United. But then I had it verified internally that United really didn't know about it. Indeed, Airfarewatchdog would not have been kept out of that thread by a login restriction.
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:37:34 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:37:41 PM)
Perhaps we should not be discussing specific users?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:37:46 PM)
it won't access on the MR discussions forums due to high volume.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:37:52 PM)
Spiff- understandable, so those level of specifics having been reached yet
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:37:54 PM)
test
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:37:54 PM)
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PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:37:57 PM)
is that accurate?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:38:02 PM)
haven't*
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:38:02 PM)
Markie, airfarewatchdog is also a website
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:38:06 PM)
and fair game
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:38:19 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:38:33 PM)
then perhaps referring to it as airfarewatchdog.com would be wise
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:38:52 PM)
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:38:59 PM)
@PFKMan23 - we're voting as to whether we support some kind of restriction at all: "The TalkBoard, after consideration of input from the forum Moderators, believes that some content in the Mileage Run Discussions forum should be subject to access restrictions to be determined, that could include either minimum standards of community participation or mandatory login to view."
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:39:08 PM)
ok
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:39:08 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:39:13 PM)
WB
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:39:33 PM)
I agree with you completely.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:39:39 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:39:40 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:39:40 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:40:00 PM)
It will have to put on MR restrictions and users won't allow to access into the forums.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:40:04 PM)
Other questions about (a) where we are in the process, or (b) anyone looking to lobby further beyond the discussion we've had on-thread?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:40:06 PM)
i'm in the log-in camp
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:40:11 PM)
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PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:40:23 PM)
I'm also in the log in camp
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:40:24 PM)
isn't the process you all are taking it to a vote?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:40:28 PM)
same here
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:40:29 PM)
yes.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:40:33 PM)
I think once we get past the first vote, there will be a lot more discussion
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:40:40 PM)
lets vote to making the deicsions will be.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:40:46 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:40:51 PM)
WB
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:40:52 PM)
Right now it's sense of the talkboard, is there a 2/3rds majority for restriction of any kind?
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:41:02 PM)
I agree that log-in is very reasonable, but it probably won't provent a lot of problems
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:41:06 PM)
I think repeat abusers should just loose access to the MR forums
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:41:07 PM)
My guess is I may be the only one that's staked out a position against.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:41:15 PM)
But I may have misread the public thread
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:41:19 PM)
i'd still vote yes.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:41:23 PM)
yes.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:41:24 PM)
We're voting to see if we have a 2/3 majority who will agree to some restriction; if it passes we will recommence discussion of particular restrictions
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:41:26 PM)
dammit, i got kicked at the fun part
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:41:33 PM)
uh-oh. :(
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:41:42 PM)
I have supported a restriction in the public thread
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:41:44 PM)
thats what i said b747
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:41:44 PM)
PFK, how would you keep track of 'repeat abusers'?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:41:45 PM)
B747-437B, if Flyertalk chat is 'the fun part' then...
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:41:56 PM)
how do you define repeat abuser--sanctions for off FT behavior?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:41:57 PM)
@PFKMan23 - that's something I can't abide as it punishes an FTer for actions off-FT.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:42:17 PM)
dhammer, mod forum list
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:42:27 PM)
I still think we have issues of proof, how would we ever be SURE?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:42:34 PM)
bingo
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:42:39 PM)
that's the hard part
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:42:43 PM)
test
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:42:49 PM)
is that working now?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:42:55 PM)
we see you jumbo jet man
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:42:58 PM)
someone can't get sanctioned for off-FT behavior, can they?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:43:03 PM)
I don't think sharing information that's on flyertalk, off-flyertalk, is punishable
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:43:13 PM)
nor should it be if it's sharing travel information
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:43:24 PM)
that I actually agree with
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:43:29 PM)
Exactly, part of that is the point of FT!
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:43:31 PM)
as annoying as it might be in general
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:43:35 PM)
eventually deals go away, that's how it works........
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:43:41 PM)
agreed
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:43:46 PM)
@Skiadcock: as far as I know, only Randy can make someone persona non grata for off-FT actions
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:43:49 PM)
Flyertalk is much bigger and more public than any blog or otherwise.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:43:55 PM)
makes sense to me spiff.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:43:57 PM)
I usually miss them as they come and go whilst I am asleep in Europe :(
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:44:06 PM)
I make people wake me!
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:44:17 PM)
nobody should ever be kicked or banned or otherwise restricted for any actions taken outside the forums
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:44:17 PM)
we can restrict the forums, but anyone who is permitted access may then choose to share any info from that forum with whoever they choose by whatever means they choose
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:44:19 PM)
@Markie - give me your cell
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:44:27 PM)
the 'deals' of the MR forum are long gone vs the old days :(
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:44:45 PM)
yep, it will be gone forever.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:44:49 PM)
Indeed, that loss of 'deals' is part of why I fear all this is closing the stable door...
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:45:21 PM)
Are we ready for the next question?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:45:26 PM)
wasn't part of the point that they're now being shared back-channel? btw - if anyone finds a great MR that's out of GRR, feel free to call me even at 3am
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:45:32 PM)
these days, I plan my vacations. In the old days the MR forum told me where to go
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:45:37 PM)
i miss la.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:45:49 PM)
Dan, now you have a reason to spend your miles! That's pretty pro-Fleyrtalk
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:45:55 PM)
Yes I think we know that some people swap these things, but that's their right
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:45:59 PM)
gleff, question?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:46:03 PM)
sure, I'll pm you Gary
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:46:04 PM)
please
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:46:06 PM)
haha
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:46:26 PM)
there's been talk for last few years re: an 'ambassador' program (welcoming and all that).
WineCountryUA (May 29, 2010 1:46:32 PM)
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SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:46:45 PM)
of course we're all supposed to be welcoming - but does setting up a program fall under TB?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:47:03 PM)
Sharon we are actually working on that now!
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:47:05 PM)
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:47:09 PM)
or is that a Randy thing or IB thing? or is it just still getting kicked around?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:47:32 PM)
I believe lucky will be posting something once he's back from his mileage run
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:47:33 PM)
ah well, great minds
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:47:56 PM)
But the upshot it that we're currently working on a test of 'flame-free' threads in a few forums with the concurrence of the mods of those forums
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:47:56 PM)
have details been sorted, or will it be asking for input on how to work it?
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:47:58 PM)
test
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:48:04 PM)
At least that's the initial idea to start.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:48:11 PM)
got it.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:48:13 PM)
test seen
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:48:22 PM)
A place where new members could go or folks new to a forum could go to ask questions without feear of being told to search or sounding stupid
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:48:23 PM)
testing 1.2.3
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:48:37 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:49:05 PM)
we'll see how this goes, whether it gets rolled out broadly if successful, and whether other stages of an ambassador program make sense.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:49:06 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:49:24 PM)
but seemed easier to start with a 'safe place' for new folks to ask questions than to start with appointing ambassadors, etc.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:49:30 PM)
though we may still get there for sure
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:49:32 PM)
got it.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:49:39 PM)
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dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:49:52 PM)
would it be a 'sticky'?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:49:52 PM)
mm
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:50:02 PM)
btw - in case i get dumped from chat again. i want to say thanks to all the TB members for taking time to participate in this chat!
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:50:18 PM)
< I hate all the room stickies take
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:50:20 PM)
and to all the members of flyertalk who have joined us today!
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:50:20 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:50:30 PM)
WB, B747
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:50:40 PM)
Yes stickies have to be handled with care!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:50:46 PM)
something gone wrong with your chatroom, B747?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:50:48 PM)
Wouldn't the ambassador program need to be a forum or forums
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:50:55 PM)
I do find that stickies often have the opposite affect as intended
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:51:05 PM)
well - as the folk at my event i'm supposed to be at know, 'i'm having problems w/ my car battery - i'll be there in an hour
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:51:10 PM)
just because those questions would probably be airline/program specific?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:51:15 PM)
PFKMan23, we're testing it in a handful of forums to see whether it works/helps
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:51:22 PM)
ah ok
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:51:25 PM)
good to know
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:51:33 PM)
test
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:51:36 PM)
at least that's the proposal on the table currently
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:51:37 PM)
Without discussing Moderation, I know that in Hyatt we look at them very carefully and keep them to a minimum
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:52:01 PM)
I hope the test includes SPG
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:52:16 PM)
it's a test, if it goes well it may wind up including all forums!
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:52:33 PM)
which forums will have test
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:52:34 PM)
as a former mod of a site that had a forum whose front page was 50% stickies I can totally agree
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:52:50 PM)
test
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:52:53 PM)
which one?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:53:04 PM)
there's be report of a vote including the test forums proposed, i'll let lucky post that shortly
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:53:07 PM)
i believe he's on a flight
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:53:07 PM)
yeah, I've trained myself to look below that real estate
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:54:32 PM)
ANy additional input on ambassadors before we move on?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:54:41 PM)
no
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:54:46 PM)
not from me. thanks for considering the program.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:54:59 PM)
Anyone have another issue to throw on the table?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:55:00 PM)
another question?
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:55:00 PM)
I like the idea in general
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:55:03 PM)
without being facetious, teach people how to use "search"
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:55:13 PM)
will never happen
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:55:29 PM)
part of the online world
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:55:32 PM)
A search FAQ could be possibly folded into the ambassador program or into another part of FT
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:55:41 PM)
well can't speak for others, but i do when i post a reply (i usually answer the question, but if they're new they might not know about it.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:55:41 PM)
better yet, teach old posters some manners
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:55:46 PM)
or at leasst to skim the first page of thread titles before starting a new thread
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:55:54 PM)
Search is *much* better than it used to be, though IMHO one of the real benefits of the Internet Brands search problems was that FTers stopped scolding members to use search. I like to use search, find a thread, and once helpful to suggest to members that they use it
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:55:55 PM)
ok, that's beyond TB
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:55:59 PM)
Yeah, Read That Fine Manual doesn't always cut it.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:55:59 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:56:10 PM)
Also the 'flame free threads' could have a post linking to most frequently asked questions
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:56:13 PM)
LOL spiff.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:56:22 PM)
That's a good idea Markie.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:56:38 PM)
Another question?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:56:43 PM)
sure, a link to Stickies
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:56:51 PM)
ok iam a newbie ask me questions. How do we bug you?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:57:23 PM)
@zlokitty: are you looking for suggestions as to how to bug people?
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:57:35 PM)
could use a few lol lol
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:57:35 PM)
Did you have a welcoming experience when you joined zlokitty, and why did you join?
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:57:50 PM)
one problem is that some of the sticky/FAQ info is very out of date, so people ignore it all
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:58:10 PM)
well...no one said welcome...but I am enjoying the experience...have signed up for Chicago
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:58:10 PM)
@MSPeconomist, worth pinging the sticky owner and/or forum mods about that?
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:58:16 PM)
If a sticky/FAQ is out of date the Mods need to be told
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:58:20 PM)
Outstanding, see you there then
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:58:25 PM)
OK
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:58:27 PM)
Sharon, you had another question?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:58:29 PM)
welcome to FlyerTalk, zlokitty!
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:58:34 PM)
THANKS
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:58:58 PM)
Well Randy posted this one a while back & I'm wondering on people's thoughts.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:59:01 PM)
What do you believe is the most effective way for TalkBoard members to receive feedback in the public forum? Would you seek feedback mostly by reading the comments of the membership, or would you engage in debate with the membership? As well, explain how you balance public comments against those you receive in private and maybe the most important question of all ... do you think that the vocal will always represent the majority for your input or do you sometime sense that the majority may feel that FlyerTalk is fine the way it is?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:59:11 PM)
The chat regulars are welcoming zlokitty. Join us weeknights around 11:00pm eastern time
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:59:41 PM)
@dhammer53: Isn't that "naughty time"?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:59:55 PM)
i was more interested in the first 3, cuz i don't think that the last one a lot of people even know tb exists.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:00:03 PM)
once was. Please join us (again)!!
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:00:15 PM)
The vocal majority in the Talkboard issues forum aren't 'all members' and we have to consider what's best for all members. But certainly those who are willing to speak up and are most invested in the community count a great deal.
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:00:38 PM)
I don't always post, I get more by watching, though I will usually at a minimum explain my position even if it's a tentative take.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:00:46 PM)
I hope some of things we're doing are going to raise the profile of TB a bit. I think our powers are more limited than many realise
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:00:50 PM)
Though I also don't usually post when I don' thave anything to add to a discussion.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 2:01:15 PM)
chao
opushomes (May 29, 2010 2:01:16 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 2:01:18 PM)
I used to take that view but some prodding means I that I try to post once at least on every issue now
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:01:38 PM)
@Markie I think to some extend we have power to the extent that we take it, and are given power by the members, if we do speak for a large membership and on their behalf then the forum owners will very very liekly listen even outside of the normal purview of forum creation/cleanup/etc
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:01:42 PM)
@SkiAdcock: I read the public forums and am happy to receive input in other channels. Like gleff et. al, I know that a few vocal people don't necessarily represent the views of FT as a larger community. I also use my personal judgment quite a lot and that's why I think I was elected to serve.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:02:34 PM)
@gleff I agree - except we have no influence on Moderation or The Guidelines!
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:02:36 PM)
So the one question I said don't focus on most did
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:03:01 PM)
@spiff, most people don't care... except the regular posters to those threads
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:03:13 PM)
but what i think i hear you all saying is you try to balance both open & pm posting.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:03:15 PM)
and the regular readers
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:03:43 PM)
dhammer I agree
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:03:46 PM)
@dhammer53 - that might be true for a lot of items but once change is implemented w/o notice, suddenly many people care.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:03:51 PM)
Public/Private balance - well most members get the same weight so sometimes it's a force of number issue. Someone taking time to PM, enagage in a discussion and respond to questions, often influences me more than a 'I Agree' in a thread
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:03:59 PM)
I'm certainly open to input from any source, I don't balance the sources or take a poll of the majority, i do what I believe is best for flyertalk and listen to opinions about what that is
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:04:20 PM)
+1 to gleff
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:04:28 PM)
I look at the argument made for/against an issue rather than just "me too" or "I want!" for the 50th time.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:04:29 PM)
Gary, sounds very Washintonian
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:04:29 PM)
And sometimes it just has to come down to my feeling of what is right too
DeaconFlyer (May 29, 2010 2:04:33 PM)
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SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:05:06 PM)
fair enough. btw - if it wasn't commented on yet, can you talk about forum closing
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:05:13 PM)
DeaconFlyer, you've joined the Talk Board chat
DeaconFlyer (May 29, 2010 2:05:22 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 2:05:27 PM)
Oh!
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:05:28 PM)
ouch
WineCountryUA (May 29, 2010 2:05:31 PM)
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SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:05:41 PM)
well chat's been tossing folk in/out.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:05:44 PM)
And as you can see, some people are VERY interested in TalkBoard.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:05:57 PM)
What about Forum Closure?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:05:58 PM)
kind of like during regular weeknight chats.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:06:29 PM)
chat never works for me (tonight no exception)
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:06:29 PM)
well part of the reason given previously for not creating forums when asked is there's a concern
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:06:36 PM)
We've talked about regularly reviewing for cleanup purposes
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:06:50 PM)
Someone at one point said TB has much less power than foorum members realize, I know randy runs the palce and can veto anything, but can you expand on that?
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:06:52 PM)
I beleive we reported in our minutes of our in-person meeting that we've discussed that
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:06:55 PM)
Yes an annual review seemed wise, this was in the posted minutes of our meeting in LA
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:07:12 PM)
that a forum will 'underperform' and thus folk don't want to create it if it's hard to close it. i didn't know if more had been discussed re: what criteria for closing?
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:07:17 PM)
PFKMan23, we cannot granr you miles and points or status
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:07:19 PM)
Randy always takes imput from the TB
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:07:24 PM)
@PFKMan23 - we have no power over Moderation or The Guidelines
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:07:39 PM)
So do you offer suggestions then?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:07:42 PM)
We're an advisory board
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:07:45 PM)
TB has no "power" at all
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:07:47 PM)
we advise
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:07:49 PM)
so in the annual review - have you come w/ criteria, or is that still being discussed?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:07:51 PM)
that hopefully get adopted into policy?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:07:53 PM)
yes and sometimes he comes to us for advice
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:07:59 PM)
k
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:03 PM)
perhaps our advice is heeded
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:13 PM)
or we might advise against doing something
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:08:15 PM)
Is it usually heeded?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:21 PM)
I'd say usuallt
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:08:22 PM)
I have tremendous power as the TalkBoard President. I can post polls in the forum for talkboard members to vote on
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:23 PM)
usually
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:08:32 PM)
k
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:36 PM)
@gleff we are not worthy
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:08:40 PM)
gleff worked hard to get that polling power
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:08:43 PM)
hail gleff
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:08:46 PM)
@Skiadcock - we haven't had one yet, but there were notes about some criteria for opening, so it seems likely the opposite would warrant closure
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:09:16 PM)
thanks. just wondered since in the past the closing has been given as a criteria for not approving opening.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:09:46 PM)
Yes, and that's why a formal annual review was proposed
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:09:48 PM)
I do want to thank everyone that's come out for this chat, we've had a better turnout than I personally expected and that suggests to me this is going to be worth repeating. Not saying we're done for today, I realize it sounds like it, but I want to make sure I get that thought in before any more folks disappear
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 2:09:54 PM)
is the concern that this list of fora will become too long?
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:10:00 PM)
or you get kicked
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 2:10:09 PM)
nice to meet all of you...hope to see you in ORD...hey, I'm learning. Ciao
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:10:15 PM)
Indeed, I would like to see a restructure of the Dining forums
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:10:25 PM)
oh too funny gleff - i was just thinking how much we appreciate you guys doing this & hoping it would happen again.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:10:30 PM)
test
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:10:36 PM)
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zlokitty (May 29, 2010 2:10:45 PM)
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MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 2:10:47 PM)
the destinations list is too long--it takes forever to scroll down to community
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:11:04 PM)
You can use MyFlyertalk to customize the forum display
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:11:05 PM)
do you know that you can set up 'my flyertalk'?
wharvey (May 29, 2010 2:11:09 PM)
Gary, any way you can encourage a majority of TB members to attend these? I had thought that was going to happen....
wharvey (May 29, 2010 2:11:16 PM)
but thank the four of you for hosting!
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:11:26 PM)
@MSPeconomist - my view too
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:11:28 PM)
William I actually expected that as well, but two folks had some flight issues as I understand it
wharvey (May 29, 2010 2:11:31 PM)
especially for the non-usa TB members
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:11:33 PM)
that kept them away
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:11:36 PM)
@wharvey: we had flight issues
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 2:11:51 PM)
I'll have to investigate my flyertalk more....
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:11:53 PM)
well hopefully they got compensation
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:11:57 PM)
truth be told, I was looking for a bump yesterday/today too
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:12:12 PM)
Love the members, but I love compensation too
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:12:15 PM)
I hope to be in NY in June, and if we did one then it wouldn't mean me staying up so late
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:12:20 PM)
And how!
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:12:42 PM)
I really am bummed that the Continental management will take over United, a clear end to my Skykits
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:12:49 PM)
So... any more issues?
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:13:11 PM)
Thanks to all the members who turned up too - on a Holiday weekend no less.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:13:12 PM)
whats my flyertalk?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:13:12 PM)
i missed part of what was discussed when i was off, so don't know what i missed. but i'm good.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:13:13 PM)
not at the moment?
eeee (May 29, 2010 2:13:25 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 2:13:31 PM)
I hope Randy can recover the chat and we can then post it fo everyone
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:13:35 PM)
Thanks for joining us!
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:13:37 PM)
I do expect we'll do this again, at least I will encourage it. And I was skeptical
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:13:37 PM)
will there be a transcript of the chat for those who wanted to make it but couldn't?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:13:46 PM)
Good to have these discussions though I think even though some probably don't like to mingle with the masses
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:13:47 PM)
@Markie I do have some notes to post
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:14:01 PM)
But I'll ask about recovering a transcript
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:14:19 PM)
@gleff - good, some immediate feedback would be good to keep the momentum going.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:14:30 PM)
there have been transcripts posted before so unless IB changed it, hopefully that would work.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:14:43 PM)
Randy did say he had access to them in the past
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:14:48 PM)
i know a couple of the folk from oz posted they couldn't make it due to it being 5am or something.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:15:04 PM)
downundergirl did
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:15:08 PM)
Those Ozzies, no stamina
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:15:20 PM)
and one had a java issue where it was going to take forever from hotel to load it.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:15:21 PM)
that's unavoidable though given time zones and such
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:15:29 PM)
grrrr, i want to take a machete to chat right now
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:15:32 PM)
agreed.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:15:39 PM)
We need a new chat!
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:15:41 PM)
Sounds like we're good then for today, I will post some notes and I'm asking for a transcript which I'll get posted if possible.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:15:42 PM)
post in tech issues 747
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:15:59 PM)
IB knows that chat is not sufficiently functional
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:16:01 PM)
OK, well I am off to bed if that's everything
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:16:08 PM)
But more griping might get it higher up in the development queue
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:16:17 PM)
thanks. again, many thanks to all the TB members who participated. i need to get to my event now, so my 'dead car battery' is miraculously working again
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 2:16:23 PM)
this was interesting for a relative newcomer. thanks
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:16:27 PM)
If we use it more and say it's inhibiting the membership....perhaps it will work
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:16:28 PM)
Thanks to everyone, I really do appreciate y'all coming out - members and TB members (who are also members) alike
Note that this transcript is verbatim except that:
* I removed some real names as requested to protect individual privacy
* The chat transcript logs IP addresses and I went through and manually removed those, also for member privacy.
* I had to remove smilies because an individual Flyertalk post can have only 20 images.
----
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:00:52 PM)
According to Google it is now 4pm eastern time
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:00:59 PM)
*ding*
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:02 PM)
While I certainly expect more folks to be joining us...
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:01:09 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:10 PM)
I think we should make the most of our time together.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:21 PM)
We've got some members and TalkBoard members together
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:01:24 PM)
ok., Can we chat with you?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:34 PM)
And we don't have an established or enforced agenda, we are here for you!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:01:47 PM)
ok.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:01:53 PM)
While there are certainly some hot topics at the moment, I think we can open up the chat... we'll try to take a topic at a time though
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:01:54 PM)
i think the members should be grateful for the chance to rub shoulders with us
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:01:58 PM)
yay the aristocrasy has to bend to the plebians
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:02:21 PM)
PFK, we must all slum it sometimes - noblesse oblige et al
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:02:27 PM)
I'm probably tyhe most kettle one here
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:02:31 PM)
But let's let folks throw out their questions.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:02:37 PM)
I'll start then. As a willing and (sometimes reluctant Do organizer), I have an issue that OZ brought up in the OZ fest thread. I have seen the issue in Buenos Aires and Singapore.
wharvey (May 29, 2010 1:02:44 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:02:47 PM)
Just a disclaimer first - the opinions I express here are purely personal and not those of me as a Moderator or of the TalkBoard as a whole
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:03:02 PM)
Look forward to oposhomes' question on this
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:03:05 PM)
@opushomes - can you remind us what that issue is?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:03:35 PM)
And while opushomes types
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:03:39 PM)
Hello Whanvey, how are you?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:03:49 PM)
wharvey
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:03:52 PM)
Please allow me to remind folks that this is a TalkBoard chat and not a personal chat.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:03:59 PM)
ok.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:04:13 PM)
Let's try to keep things focused on TalkBoard business and concerns for the community as a whole, and any personal back-and-forth can be done privately.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:04:30 PM)
That is, we have members who eat and drink and duck out without paying either anything or their fair share. Discussions have led me to believe that TB has no interest in perhaps setting guidelines for banning, suspending or other sanctions for these individuals. Is there anything that can be done.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:04:32 PM)
ok. understand. thanks for your efforts.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:04:47 PM)
Are we making any progress on combining the Midwest/Fronitier forums?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:04:58 PM)
Good question, lets take opushomes issue first
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:05:05 PM)
yes, my opinion it would be merge the thread F9/YX.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:05:06 PM)
And remember that we are each speaking privately for ourselves
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:05:20 PM)
there may be followup as a group but for now we are individual talkboard eembers
N1Hawk (May 29, 2010 1:05:30 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:05:48 PM)
opus -- my view on that is that what one does off-the-board (inc. at a FT do) is not subject to jurisdiction of FT
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:05:58 PM)
So let's let the board members contribute, but as for myself I'll say that off-line behavior is off-line behavior and I don't think we want to establish a court to discipline folks for failure to pay.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:06:17 PM)
@opus - good question. It's hard to enforce that in my opinion because I've been at such a do and what it came down to was a lot of he said/she said/he drank/no he didn't drink etc. A prepaid dinner is one solution but I have a problem disciplining someone on FT for off-FT behavior that might be difficult to prove.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:06:24 PM)
That said there are certain guidelines that we ask of folks who have DOs, such as to make them open to all FTers if we want to promote them on Flyertalk.
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:06:37 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:06:40 PM)
My view on the ducking out, is that The Guidelines don't allow Do's to exclude anyone from Flyertalk, but in terms of cash collection perhaps advance payment is an option, although I realise it's hard work
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:06:43 PM)
Hello O2k
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:06:56 PM)
greetings
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:07:01 PM)
greetings to you.
N1Hawk (May 29, 2010 1:07:08 PM)
Greetings
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:07:09 PM)
And I can certainly imagine certain people becoming problems where that condition could be relaxed. But again, advance payment is a good practice, I know this was done successfully at the DC DO I attended part of a couple weeks back.
N1Hawk (May 29, 2010 1:07:32 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:07:38 PM)
I'm open to hearing suggestions but I'm not comfortable creating TOS rules and discipline for off-line behavior, it's just not something we're equipped to judge and enforce.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:07:44 PM)
Alternatively, don't make it a FT DO and you can invite anyone you wish, but of course it cannot be advertised on FT then
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:07:49 PM)
I'm not a talk board member, but for gross misconduct I thik a local community should be able to not allow members to attend/be persona non grata
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:08:16 PM)
How does one prove the 'gross misconduct'?
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:08:22 PM)
I agree it is advisable to have advance payment in one's home country. But the problems that I have encountered have been in other countries where the organizer does not live. I.E. Argentina and Singapore.
no-backpacker (May 29, 2010 1:08:24 PM)
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Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:08:27 PM)
@PFKMan23 - if someone is suspended from FT, they are technically only allowed at the do if the host asssents. They are PNG otherwise.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:08:28 PM)
I was a admin for a forum that had get togethers all over he US and we basically let the organizers disallow certain people if a pattern of misconduct was established
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:08:53 PM)
Yes, it will be violations of the forums rules and it will subject to get disciplinary actions against the members.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:09:06 PM)
spiff- I get that but thing is, from what I can tell that is/will not be a bannable offense
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:09:23 PM)
or is it?
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:09:27 PM)
That steps in the pervue of the Mods, who wrote the Guidelines, but I suppose Spiff could raise it as TB liaison if it's an issue?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:09:27 PM)
yes.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:09:33 PM)
Bad conduct is not a reason to exclude someone from a do. All FTers who are not suspended must be able to attend a publicly advertised do. We don't allow people to be 'voted off the island'.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:09:33 PM)
So if I take OZ's position that I have the right to tell you to leave, there is no problem with TB.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:09:41 PM)
airliners.net has a regulation that if a banned user is allowed to attend a *do* then all other participants at that do are suspended for the duration of the users ban
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:09:54 PM)
ok
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:10:01 PM)
interesting approach
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:10:02 PM)
You won't necessary go back on the airliners.net anymore.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:10:08 PM)
and the public reaction to that has been "...?"
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:10:08 PM)
I wouldn't want us to model ourselves on airliners.net!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:10:25 PM)
Just stay where you are.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:10:28 PM)
I think that's a wierd way to do things
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:10:28 PM)
especially since some people dont even know who is at a do let alone their status!
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:10:37 PM)
a/net is weird
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:10:38 PM)
well right
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:10:49 PM)
right. You don't have to worried about it anymore.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:10:53 PM)
so was airwhiners
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:11:00 PM)
i think its fair that any host of any event has the right to ask anyone to leave
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:11:00 PM)
no, no longer existed.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:11:28 PM)
@B747-437B - no that's not the case if the do is public
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:11:31 PM)
He has been already shutown the airwhiners.net.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:11:45 PM)
I've long wondered if we didn't need some sort of 'this is how we handled xxx when arranging a DO document' with tips from previous organisers
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:11:57 PM)
spiff -- it can be public but nothing prevents him from asking the person to leave politely
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:11:57 PM)
Does anyone else have a strong suggestion? I know that some members have done good work producing best practices for DOs and we can certainly encourage better toolkit development to help organizers prevent problems like getting stiffed, in other words how can we support our members?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:12:11 PM)
perhaps this is something that needs to be discussed among TB and the mods or something?
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:12:19 PM)
"i say old chap, you are rather a cad - would you mind buggering off terribly much?"
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:12:21 PM)
@Markie I think missydarlin had some kind do FAQ put together or at least might be asked to do so
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:12:24 PM)
Agree gleff
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:12:30 PM)
me, too.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:12:48 PM)
back to the YX/F9 question..............
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:12:59 PM)
ok.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:13:02 PM)
@gleff - yes I think we can get a best practices/FAQ for dos that address both of these questions - payments and attendees
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:13:16 PM)
lets try to talks about F9/YX should do consider to merge the thread.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:13:16 PM)
@Spiff - agreed
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:13:31 PM)
Ok, I think we're agreed to take that as an action item in some form.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:13:32 PM)
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Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:13:36 PM)
Folks, can we let gleff steer the meeting?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:13:37 PM)
Are we ready to move onto the next question?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:13:44 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:13:45 PM)
sure.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:13:48 PM)
I stand with OZ having experienced the situation a couple of times that if I run into it again, it is my perogative to throw your butt out of the function. If you guys want to sanction me for the actions as a result of the miscreants, so be it.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:13:52 PM)
finally!
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:14:12 PM)
had problems logging in.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:14:32 PM)
@opus - we don't do discipline - that would be for Randy/moderators to decide
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:14:41 PM)
RSVP would you restate your question?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:14:49 PM)
I think we can take the next issue
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:14:54 PM)
Hi, loggint in late. HOw does this work?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:14:56 PM)
And take an action item for DO best practices
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:15:13 PM)
thanks folks
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:15:18 PM)
We are taking a question at a time, giving TalkBoard membes a chance to react, and soliciting additional input from the community.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:15:21 PM)
YX /F9? Are we amking any progress?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:15:36 PM)
So can I ask a question?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:15:42 PM)
go ahead.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:15:45 PM)
Talking personaly I'm not for merging until they merge the schemes properly
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:15:52 PM)
RSVP I think the answer is yes -- we certainly see the need coming to merge the forums as we have done with DL/NW, and others.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:15:56 PM)
The question becomes when.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:15:57 PM)
lucky was supposed to report to the community about this wasnt he?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:16:01 PM)
@stimpy - gleff's running/moderating the meeting
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:16:10 PM)
Stimpy, let's handle this one. and then we'll take the next!
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:16:13 PM)
B747-437B, he did.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:16:31 PM)
yep, just found it
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:16:34 PM)
you do?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:16:35 PM)
how?
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:16:41 PM)
soone rather than later would be prudent.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:16:59 PM)
@RSVP - my position is that we should soon integrate these forums when the deal is solid and a date for the merger is firm. We're not quite there yet.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:17:12 PM)
Basically we're discussing it and the question is when to merge. For me right now they remain different programs and I think it would be confusing to merge them but the right time will certainly be in the near future. Of course each TalkBoard member will feel differently on the right time, and the forums will be merged when 2/3rds feel it has become the right time
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:17:20 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:17:31 PM)
We have a sense for when it might happen kinda sorta but we're not really dealing with a merged program yet.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:17:42 PM)
not yet.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:17:46 PM)
But I think it's fine for other members on this chat to offer contrary opinons and persuad if y'all wish.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:17:53 PM)
How much longer when F9/YX will merge the thread?
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:18:08 PM)
NW/DL was a merger of companies, this a merger of brands.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:18:17 PM)
Right.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:18:35 PM)
Two different issues.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:18:52 PM)
I think the issue in both cases is merger of frequent flyer programs.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:19:07 PM)
yes, of course.
frogface63 (May 29, 2010 1:19:23 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:19:30 PM)
if the standard is a common operating certificate, we should pool all issues by commuter partners in different forums from mainline
frogface63 (May 29, 2010 1:19:55 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:19:58 PM)
Hah! How long would we have kept America West Flight Fund as a separate forum then?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:20:07 PM)
its gone already.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:20:13 PM)
No longer exists.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:20:24 PM)
It is became US Airways Dividend Miles program.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:20:52 PM)
and any Lufthansa routes operated by bmi should be discussed in the bmi forum
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:21:15 PM)
Other perspectives or anyone who wants to make the case that the opinions expressed so far -- that merger will make sense soon but not yet, when plans are clear for program integration -- is too conservative?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:21:35 PM)
@gleff - that's where I am currently
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:21:42 PM)
Also me
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:21:46 PM)
concur
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:21:53 PM)
Sounds reasonable to me
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:21:58 PM)
I agree. Wait til the merger is done
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:21:59 PM)
I agree.
wharvey (May 29, 2010 1:22:11 PM)
seems to follow past precedence... see no reason to change that practice in this case
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:22:14 PM)
right. Just try to be more patience for awhile.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:22:24 PM)
there is always a chance the merger may not happen anyways. Small chance, but tis there
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:22:25 PM)
I see I am just spinning my wheels.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:22:38 PM)
We appreciate the spiinning!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:22:42 PM)
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:22:49 PM)
I do realise you have strong views on it RSVP
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:23:32 PM)
good chatting guys. Let's do it again sometime.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:23:38 PM)
If there aren't other views being expressed do we want to take the next question? I know stimpy said he had one, is that one next or anyone desperate to jump the queue?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:23:42 PM)
RSVP, stick around!
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:23:45 PM)
What do TB members think about how good Flyertalk is with Internationalization? I am happy with the Euro railroad forum and the Accor forum. I was not happy with the decision to ban foreign language sig's, but I see that decision was recinded. But you all are much more involved with Flyertalk than I am so I wanted to see how you feel about this subject?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:24:05 PM)
Good question.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:24:13 PM)
Need to think about that one, actually.
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:24:19 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:24:38 PM)
speaking as a non-US member, i think FT is overwhelmingly localised
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:24:42 PM)
@stimpy - I think that FT could become less US-centric. I'd love to hear some more suggestions as to how we could help promote that.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:24:59 PM)
it is less a case of US-centric forums as regional centric ones
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:25:11 PM)
As a European I do think FT is too US-centric, but having said that I am not sure it really shows very much in the points and miles forums which, for me, is the core of the board
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:25:16 PM)
go to the BA forum or the AC forum or the QF forum and they are speaking a different language of english!!!
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:25:25 PM)
I don't think FT should be giving preferrential treatment to non-US programmes if they are tiny.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:25:26 PM)
The sigs decision was a Moderator decision.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:25:28 PM)
I asked Randy about diversity training for Moderators. When people hear about diversity training, they think race and sex. But I think they should think about it in the sense of globalism
no-backpacker (May 29, 2010 1:25:43 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:25:47 PM)
I would consider to offered work for moderating.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:25:50 PM)
@B747-437B - I spend a lot of time in QF and I speak perfectly good English.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:26:00 PM)
not to mention that a topic that is prefaced with "OT:" really should be posted elsewhere to begin with, not just for the benefit of your own chums in your cozy little forum
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:26:09 PM)
There are more international Mods than ever before - I used to be the only one!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:26:11 PM)
Me, too. I am very good English.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:26:31 PM)
@stimpy - can you give us some suggestions as to what we could do in terms of global diversity?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:26:38 PM)
yes Markie, but an international mod does not always mean a fair mod
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:26:39 PM)
I do think we need a common language for the community, and I was frankly a little concerned over non-English signatures for purely administrative/housekeeping reasons. But we also have good folks who report problems and translations in those cases are pretty easy with online tools. I'm happy to see Flyertalk grow and develop more of its non-US focus, we are a travel communit after all, and I really value the lcoal knowledge. And I sure love some of my non-US based programs! And we do need to be vigilant of our global reach and aspirations. The TalkBoard originally had a non-US requirement for a certain # of members, so we recognize this as an institution. Mostly I'd love to hear suggestions on how we get there, and specific problems that may need work.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:27:04 PM)
Spiff, like I said, the Euro rail and Accor forum are great adds
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:27:34 PM)
So... this is important, something for us to be aware of, and an area where we could use member input and suggestions.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:27:38 PM)
Do you want to speak about UA/CO will consider to merge the thread or not.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:28:00 PM)
maybe set up some way for people to report issues that suppress global views and viewpoints
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:28:20 PM)
give it some focus
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:28:23 PM)
not sure I understand, can you give me an example?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:28:28 PM)
@stimpy - have you some examples?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:28:30 PM)
sure.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:28:34 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:28:35 PM)
I think any member of TB would want to hear about that Stimpy
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:29:02 PM)
I think the issue is broader than language. It is also a matter of cultural sensitivity. The Kuching trip in January was pretty much IMHO a failed experiment in imparting a bit of cultural sensitivity to people who act like typical tourists (with some minor exceptions)..
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:29:16 PM)
well if I see a post that argues against a global view, I could of course report it to a Mod, but if that Mod is also US centric it does no good
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:29:32 PM)
Do you have to be reconsider with CO/UA want to merge the thread?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:29:36 PM)
that goes back to diversity training for mods
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:29:52 PM)
Yes, perhaps Spiff can suggest this for the next Mod Do?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:29:54 PM)
@stimpy - is your example a TOS violation
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:29:54 PM)
or I could report it to Randy, or some other back-channel,
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:29:55 PM)
i think this might be an interesting aspect to an Ambassador program as well
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:29:56 PM)
Pardon my ignorance but could you expand on what you mean by US centric?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:30:13 PM)
@Spiff - not sure
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:30:31 PM)
@Markie/gleff - I'll take an action item on the globalization diversity
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:30:31 PM)
aa post that argues against a global view? B747-437B may be correct re ambassador program but i'm trying to wrap my mind around more specifics to better understand
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:30:34 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:30:39 PM)
I view it as being most of the posts in, for example OMNI, are US issues
wharvey (May 29, 2010 1:30:46 PM)
can anyone detail what the Kuching issue was?
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:30:50 PM)
sorry, I am not armed with real examples at this moment
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:30:58 PM)
I should have prepared!
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:31:20 PM)
that's fair and great to get it out there, i just tend to work from the specific to the general (induce to deduce) rather than the other way 'round
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:31:22 PM)
yes Omni is terribly US with a tiny bit of UK
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:31:25 PM)
Could that be a function moreso of the posting composition in OMNI?
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:31:25 PM)
Well if you let us know or perhaps gleff as Pres, as they come up we can review them
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:31:30 PM)
but nothing you can do about that
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:31:44 PM)
ie: posters are mainly from the US/UK?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:31:46 PM)
Feel free to shoot me something after the chat or when you notice it and we can pull it back into the hopper indeed.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:31:51 PM)
I am NOT advocating regulation of Omni.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:32:07 PM)
me either. I don't usually it very often.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:32:07 PM)
That's off-topic for this chat! (hahaha)
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:32:10 PM)
That train has left the station stimpy
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:32:16 PM)
omni post counts on the other hand....
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:32:24 PM)
Ok, I think we may be ready for another question?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:32:31 PM)
sure.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:32:50 PM)
may i ask a qsn?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:32:50 PM)
Has there been any progress on the more respective mileage run forum?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:32:53 PM)
My opinion it would like to know about MR discussions fourms will put on the restrictions.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:33:04 PM)
restrictive*
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:33:06 PM)
B747-437B, yes, but lets let the members go first if ok
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:33:06 PM)
ah PFK brings up the topic I wanted to raise
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:33:23 PM)
Let's talk about this one then
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:33:23 PM)
It seems like it was put up for a vote and then all discussion stopped
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:33:40 PM)
Because it was too many people on MR discussions. It will have to put on the restrictions all members isn't allow to post there.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:33:44 PM)
I took a group of 15 FTers to Kuching Sarawak after SinDo. It was not a tour. Perhaps if you have time, go to Community Post SinDo 2010 (kuching) and read what I proposed. Unfortunately, the issue that I first raised in this discussion included an individual or two who were somewhat disruptive. Everyone kind of went there own way.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:34:03 PM)
MR forum should stay the same. I'd remind you that may deals have come from newbees
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:34:12 PM)
right.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:34:13 PM)
PFK - it is presently an open vote for the TB (open till 7th June IIRC)
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:34:28 PM)
right.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:34:33 PM)
I do agree with the point where someone said you have to be logged in to read/post
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:34:43 PM)
yes, me too.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:34:50 PM)
I think we're all voting on the first phase of a possible change - but are some time away from a final decision
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:35:01 PM)
dan - i concur in principle, but im not sure where i stand on a login restriction
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:35:04 PM)
Of course this is an opportunity to lobby a handful of us
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:35:22 PM)
@PFKMan23 - I'm willing to endorse a forum that has some kind of access requirement (not sure what that is yet) but not at all willing to sanction someone who blabs, ala AFWD.
UAL4life (May 29, 2010 1:35:31 PM)
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UAL4life (May 29, 2010 1:35:36 PM)
wow
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:35:38 PM)
Past my bedtime. Thanks for discussing my question. Good Night
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:35:44 PM)
Goodnight to you.
stimpy (May 29, 2010 1:35:47 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:35:47 PM)
Sleep well!
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:35:48 PM)
The only restriction I'm open to *considering* is login, but even there I think I'm the most skeptical of all Talkboard members on this issue, my general take is that travel information on flyertalk be open to all
UAL4life (May 29, 2010 1:35:48 PM)
there are people in at this time of day?
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:35:55 PM)
I like the log in requirement
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:35:58 PM)
Do you agree wiht me about MR discussions thread will put on restrictions/
UAL4life (May 29, 2010 1:36:02 PM)
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PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:36:05 PM)
If we're talking post count are we looking at Coupon connection level?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:36:08 PM)
747, and you'll always have posters like Airfarewatchdog who are old FT members... that Blow a deal
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:36:56 PM)
Do you consider to put on the restrictions by MR discussions forum?
wharvey (May 29, 2010 1:36:56 PM)
I am with Gleff on this one, travel info should remain open, keep restrictions on the two forums that have it.... but add it back to OMNI...
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:37:00 PM)
@PFKMan23 - that may be jumping the gun a bit and I'm not sure I'd be ok with that level of restriction
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:37:12 PM)
I was initially skeptical that Airfarewatchdog had actually been the cause of killing the 'easy' fuel dumps with United. But then I had it verified internally that United really didn't know about it. Indeed, Airfarewatchdog would not have been kept out of that thread by a login restriction.
obscure2k (May 29, 2010 1:37:34 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:37:41 PM)
Perhaps we should not be discussing specific users?
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:37:46 PM)
it won't access on the MR discussions forums due to high volume.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:37:52 PM)
Spiff- understandable, so those level of specifics having been reached yet
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:37:54 PM)
test
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:37:54 PM)
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PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:37:57 PM)
is that accurate?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:38:02 PM)
haven't*
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:38:02 PM)
Markie, airfarewatchdog is also a website
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:38:06 PM)
and fair game
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:38:19 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:38:33 PM)
then perhaps referring to it as airfarewatchdog.com would be wise
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:38:52 PM)
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:38:59 PM)
@PFKMan23 - we're voting as to whether we support some kind of restriction at all: "The TalkBoard, after consideration of input from the forum Moderators, believes that some content in the Mileage Run Discussions forum should be subject to access restrictions to be determined, that could include either minimum standards of community participation or mandatory login to view."
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:39:08 PM)
ok
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:39:08 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:39:13 PM)
WB
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:39:33 PM)
I agree with you completely.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:39:39 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:39:40 PM)
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B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:39:40 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:40:00 PM)
It will have to put on MR restrictions and users won't allow to access into the forums.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:40:04 PM)
Other questions about (a) where we are in the process, or (b) anyone looking to lobby further beyond the discussion we've had on-thread?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:40:06 PM)
i'm in the log-in camp
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:40:11 PM)
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PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:40:23 PM)
I'm also in the log in camp
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:40:24 PM)
isn't the process you all are taking it to a vote?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:40:28 PM)
same here
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:40:29 PM)
yes.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:40:33 PM)
I think once we get past the first vote, there will be a lot more discussion
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:40:40 PM)
lets vote to making the deicsions will be.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:40:46 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:40:51 PM)
WB
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:40:52 PM)
Right now it's sense of the talkboard, is there a 2/3rds majority for restriction of any kind?
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:41:02 PM)
I agree that log-in is very reasonable, but it probably won't provent a lot of problems
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:41:06 PM)
I think repeat abusers should just loose access to the MR forums
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:41:07 PM)
My guess is I may be the only one that's staked out a position against.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:41:15 PM)
But I may have misread the public thread
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:41:19 PM)
i'd still vote yes.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:41:23 PM)
yes.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:41:24 PM)
We're voting to see if we have a 2/3 majority who will agree to some restriction; if it passes we will recommence discussion of particular restrictions
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:41:26 PM)
dammit, i got kicked at the fun part
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:41:33 PM)
uh-oh. :(
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:41:42 PM)
I have supported a restriction in the public thread
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:41:44 PM)
thats what i said b747
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:41:44 PM)
PFK, how would you keep track of 'repeat abusers'?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:41:45 PM)
B747-437B, if Flyertalk chat is 'the fun part' then...
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:41:56 PM)
how do you define repeat abuser--sanctions for off FT behavior?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:41:57 PM)
@PFKMan23 - that's something I can't abide as it punishes an FTer for actions off-FT.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:42:17 PM)
dhammer, mod forum list
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:42:27 PM)
I still think we have issues of proof, how would we ever be SURE?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:42:34 PM)
bingo
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:42:39 PM)
that's the hard part
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:42:43 PM)
test
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:42:49 PM)
is that working now?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:42:55 PM)
we see you jumbo jet man
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:42:58 PM)
someone can't get sanctioned for off-FT behavior, can they?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:43:03 PM)
I don't think sharing information that's on flyertalk, off-flyertalk, is punishable
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:43:13 PM)
nor should it be if it's sharing travel information
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:43:24 PM)
that I actually agree with
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:43:29 PM)
Exactly, part of that is the point of FT!
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:43:31 PM)
as annoying as it might be in general
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:43:35 PM)
eventually deals go away, that's how it works........
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:43:41 PM)
agreed
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:43:46 PM)
@Skiadcock: as far as I know, only Randy can make someone persona non grata for off-FT actions
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:43:49 PM)
Flyertalk is much bigger and more public than any blog or otherwise.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:43:55 PM)
makes sense to me spiff.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:43:57 PM)
I usually miss them as they come and go whilst I am asleep in Europe :(
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:44:06 PM)
I make people wake me!
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:44:17 PM)
nobody should ever be kicked or banned or otherwise restricted for any actions taken outside the forums
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:44:17 PM)
we can restrict the forums, but anyone who is permitted access may then choose to share any info from that forum with whoever they choose by whatever means they choose
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:44:19 PM)
@Markie - give me your cell
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:44:27 PM)
the 'deals' of the MR forum are long gone vs the old days :(
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:44:45 PM)
yep, it will be gone forever.
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:44:49 PM)
Indeed, that loss of 'deals' is part of why I fear all this is closing the stable door...
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:45:21 PM)
Are we ready for the next question?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:45:26 PM)
wasn't part of the point that they're now being shared back-channel? btw - if anyone finds a great MR that's out of GRR, feel free to call me even at 3am
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:45:32 PM)
these days, I plan my vacations. In the old days the MR forum told me where to go
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:45:37 PM)
i miss la.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:45:49 PM)
Dan, now you have a reason to spend your miles! That's pretty pro-Fleyrtalk
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:45:55 PM)
Yes I think we know that some people swap these things, but that's their right
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:45:59 PM)
gleff, question?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:46:03 PM)
sure, I'll pm you Gary
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:46:04 PM)
please
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:46:06 PM)
haha
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:46:26 PM)
there's been talk for last few years re: an 'ambassador' program (welcoming and all that).
WineCountryUA (May 29, 2010 1:46:32 PM)
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SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:46:45 PM)
of course we're all supposed to be welcoming - but does setting up a program fall under TB?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:47:03 PM)
Sharon we are actually working on that now!
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:47:05 PM)
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:47:09 PM)
or is that a Randy thing or IB thing? or is it just still getting kicked around?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:47:32 PM)
I believe lucky will be posting something once he's back from his mileage run
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:47:33 PM)
ah well, great minds
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:47:56 PM)
But the upshot it that we're currently working on a test of 'flame-free' threads in a few forums with the concurrence of the mods of those forums
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:47:56 PM)
have details been sorted, or will it be asking for input on how to work it?
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:47:58 PM)
test
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:48:04 PM)
At least that's the initial idea to start.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:48:11 PM)
got it.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:48:13 PM)
test seen
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:48:22 PM)
A place where new members could go or folks new to a forum could go to ask questions without feear of being told to search or sounding stupid
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:48:23 PM)
testing 1.2.3
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:48:37 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:49:05 PM)
we'll see how this goes, whether it gets rolled out broadly if successful, and whether other stages of an ambassador program make sense.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:49:06 PM)
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gleff (May 29, 2010 1:49:24 PM)
but seemed easier to start with a 'safe place' for new folks to ask questions than to start with appointing ambassadors, etc.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:49:30 PM)
though we may still get there for sure
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:49:32 PM)
got it.
RSVP (May 29, 2010 1:49:39 PM)
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dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:49:52 PM)
would it be a 'sticky'?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:49:52 PM)
mm
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:50:02 PM)
btw - in case i get dumped from chat again. i want to say thanks to all the TB members for taking time to participate in this chat!
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:50:18 PM)
< I hate all the room stickies take
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:50:20 PM)
and to all the members of flyertalk who have joined us today!
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:50:20 PM)
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N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:50:30 PM)
WB, B747
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:50:40 PM)
Yes stickies have to be handled with care!
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:50:46 PM)
something gone wrong with your chatroom, B747?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:50:48 PM)
Wouldn't the ambassador program need to be a forum or forums
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:50:55 PM)
I do find that stickies often have the opposite affect as intended
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:51:05 PM)
well - as the folk at my event i'm supposed to be at know, 'i'm having problems w/ my car battery - i'll be there in an hour
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:51:10 PM)
just because those questions would probably be airline/program specific?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:51:15 PM)
PFKMan23, we're testing it in a handful of forums to see whether it works/helps
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:51:22 PM)
ah ok
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:51:25 PM)
good to know
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:51:33 PM)
test
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:51:36 PM)
at least that's the proposal on the table currently
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:51:37 PM)
Without discussing Moderation, I know that in Hyatt we look at them very carefully and keep them to a minimum
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:52:01 PM)
I hope the test includes SPG
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:52:16 PM)
it's a test, if it goes well it may wind up including all forums!
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:52:33 PM)
which forums will have test
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 1:52:34 PM)
as a former mod of a site that had a forum whose front page was 50% stickies I can totally agree
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 1:52:50 PM)
test
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:52:53 PM)
which one?
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:53:04 PM)
there's be report of a vote including the test forums proposed, i'll let lucky post that shortly
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:53:07 PM)
i believe he's on a flight
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:53:07 PM)
yeah, I've trained myself to look below that real estate
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:54:32 PM)
ANy additional input on ambassadors before we move on?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:54:41 PM)
no
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:54:46 PM)
not from me. thanks for considering the program.
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:54:59 PM)
Anyone have another issue to throw on the table?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:55:00 PM)
another question?
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:55:00 PM)
I like the idea in general
opushomes (May 29, 2010 1:55:03 PM)
without being facetious, teach people how to use "search"
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:55:13 PM)
will never happen
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:55:29 PM)
part of the online world
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:55:32 PM)
A search FAQ could be possibly folded into the ambassador program or into another part of FT
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:55:41 PM)
well can't speak for others, but i do when i post a reply (i usually answer the question, but if they're new they might not know about it.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:55:41 PM)
better yet, teach old posters some manners
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:55:46 PM)
or at leasst to skim the first page of thread titles before starting a new thread
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:55:54 PM)
Search is *much* better than it used to be, though IMHO one of the real benefits of the Internet Brands search problems was that FTers stopped scolding members to use search. I like to use search, find a thread, and once helpful to suggest to members that they use it
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:55:55 PM)
ok, that's beyond TB
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:55:59 PM)
Yeah, Read That Fine Manual doesn't always cut it.
N830MH (May 29, 2010 1:55:59 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 1:56:10 PM)
Also the 'flame free threads' could have a post linking to most frequently asked questions
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:56:13 PM)
LOL spiff.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:56:22 PM)
That's a good idea Markie.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:56:38 PM)
Another question?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:56:43 PM)
sure, a link to Stickies
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:56:51 PM)
ok iam a newbie ask me questions. How do we bug you?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:57:23 PM)
@zlokitty: are you looking for suggestions as to how to bug people?
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:57:35 PM)
could use a few lol lol
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:57:35 PM)
Did you have a welcoming experience when you joined zlokitty, and why did you join?
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:57:50 PM)
one problem is that some of the sticky/FAQ info is very out of date, so people ignore it all
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:58:10 PM)
well...no one said welcome...but I am enjoying the experience...have signed up for Chicago
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:58:10 PM)
@MSPeconomist, worth pinging the sticky owner and/or forum mods about that?
Markie (May 29, 2010 1:58:16 PM)
If a sticky/FAQ is out of date the Mods need to be told
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:58:20 PM)
Outstanding, see you there then
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 1:58:25 PM)
OK
gleff (May 29, 2010 1:58:27 PM)
Sharon, you had another question?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:58:29 PM)
welcome to FlyerTalk, zlokitty!
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 1:58:34 PM)
THANKS
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:58:58 PM)
Well Randy posted this one a while back & I'm wondering on people's thoughts.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:59:01 PM)
What do you believe is the most effective way for TalkBoard members to receive feedback in the public forum? Would you seek feedback mostly by reading the comments of the membership, or would you engage in debate with the membership? As well, explain how you balance public comments against those you receive in private and maybe the most important question of all ... do you think that the vocal will always represent the majority for your input or do you sometime sense that the majority may feel that FlyerTalk is fine the way it is?
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 1:59:11 PM)
The chat regulars are welcoming zlokitty. Join us weeknights around 11:00pm eastern time
Spiff (May 29, 2010 1:59:41 PM)
@dhammer53: Isn't that "naughty time"?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 1:59:55 PM)
i was more interested in the first 3, cuz i don't think that the last one a lot of people even know tb exists.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:00:03 PM)
once was. Please join us (again)!!
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:00:15 PM)
The vocal majority in the Talkboard issues forum aren't 'all members' and we have to consider what's best for all members. But certainly those who are willing to speak up and are most invested in the community count a great deal.
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:00:38 PM)
I don't always post, I get more by watching, though I will usually at a minimum explain my position even if it's a tentative take.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:00:46 PM)
I hope some of things we're doing are going to raise the profile of TB a bit. I think our powers are more limited than many realise
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:00:50 PM)
Though I also don't usually post when I don' thave anything to add to a discussion.
opushomes (May 29, 2010 2:01:15 PM)
chao
opushomes (May 29, 2010 2:01:16 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 2:01:18 PM)
I used to take that view but some prodding means I that I try to post once at least on every issue now
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:01:38 PM)
@Markie I think to some extend we have power to the extent that we take it, and are given power by the members, if we do speak for a large membership and on their behalf then the forum owners will very very liekly listen even outside of the normal purview of forum creation/cleanup/etc
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:01:42 PM)
@SkiAdcock: I read the public forums and am happy to receive input in other channels. Like gleff et. al, I know that a few vocal people don't necessarily represent the views of FT as a larger community. I also use my personal judgment quite a lot and that's why I think I was elected to serve.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:02:34 PM)
@gleff I agree - except we have no influence on Moderation or The Guidelines!
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:02:36 PM)
So the one question I said don't focus on most did
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:03:01 PM)
@spiff, most people don't care... except the regular posters to those threads
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:03:13 PM)
but what i think i hear you all saying is you try to balance both open & pm posting.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:03:15 PM)
and the regular readers
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:03:43 PM)
dhammer I agree
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:03:46 PM)
@dhammer53 - that might be true for a lot of items but once change is implemented w/o notice, suddenly many people care.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:03:51 PM)
Public/Private balance - well most members get the same weight so sometimes it's a force of number issue. Someone taking time to PM, enagage in a discussion and respond to questions, often influences me more than a 'I Agree' in a thread
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:03:59 PM)
I'm certainly open to input from any source, I don't balance the sources or take a poll of the majority, i do what I believe is best for flyertalk and listen to opinions about what that is
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:04:20 PM)
+1 to gleff
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:04:28 PM)
I look at the argument made for/against an issue rather than just "me too" or "I want!" for the 50th time.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:04:29 PM)
Gary, sounds very Washintonian
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:04:29 PM)
And sometimes it just has to come down to my feeling of what is right too
DeaconFlyer (May 29, 2010 2:04:33 PM)
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SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:05:06 PM)
fair enough. btw - if it wasn't commented on yet, can you talk about forum closing
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:05:13 PM)
DeaconFlyer, you've joined the Talk Board chat
DeaconFlyer (May 29, 2010 2:05:22 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 2:05:27 PM)
Oh!
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:05:28 PM)
ouch
WineCountryUA (May 29, 2010 2:05:31 PM)
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SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:05:41 PM)
well chat's been tossing folk in/out.
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:05:44 PM)
And as you can see, some people are VERY interested in TalkBoard.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:05:57 PM)
What about Forum Closure?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:05:58 PM)
kind of like during regular weeknight chats.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:06:29 PM)
chat never works for me (tonight no exception)
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:06:29 PM)
well part of the reason given previously for not creating forums when asked is there's a concern
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:06:36 PM)
We've talked about regularly reviewing for cleanup purposes
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:06:50 PM)
Someone at one point said TB has much less power than foorum members realize, I know randy runs the palce and can veto anything, but can you expand on that?
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:06:52 PM)
I beleive we reported in our minutes of our in-person meeting that we've discussed that
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:06:55 PM)
Yes an annual review seemed wise, this was in the posted minutes of our meeting in LA
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:07:12 PM)
that a forum will 'underperform' and thus folk don't want to create it if it's hard to close it. i didn't know if more had been discussed re: what criteria for closing?
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:07:17 PM)
PFKMan23, we cannot granr you miles and points or status
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:07:19 PM)
Randy always takes imput from the TB
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:07:24 PM)
@PFKMan23 - we have no power over Moderation or The Guidelines
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:07:39 PM)
So do you offer suggestions then?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:07:42 PM)
We're an advisory board
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:07:45 PM)
TB has no "power" at all
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:07:47 PM)
we advise
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:07:49 PM)
so in the annual review - have you come w/ criteria, or is that still being discussed?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:07:51 PM)
that hopefully get adopted into policy?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:07:53 PM)
yes and sometimes he comes to us for advice
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:07:59 PM)
k
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:03 PM)
perhaps our advice is heeded
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:13 PM)
or we might advise against doing something
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:08:15 PM)
Is it usually heeded?
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:21 PM)
I'd say usuallt
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:08:22 PM)
I have tremendous power as the TalkBoard President. I can post polls in the forum for talkboard members to vote on
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:23 PM)
usually
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:08:32 PM)
k
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:08:36 PM)
@gleff we are not worthy
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:08:40 PM)
gleff worked hard to get that polling power
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:08:43 PM)
hail gleff
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:08:46 PM)
@Skiadcock - we haven't had one yet, but there were notes about some criteria for opening, so it seems likely the opposite would warrant closure
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:09:16 PM)
thanks. just wondered since in the past the closing has been given as a criteria for not approving opening.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:09:46 PM)
Yes, and that's why a formal annual review was proposed
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:09:48 PM)
I do want to thank everyone that's come out for this chat, we've had a better turnout than I personally expected and that suggests to me this is going to be worth repeating. Not saying we're done for today, I realize it sounds like it, but I want to make sure I get that thought in before any more folks disappear
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 2:09:54 PM)
is the concern that this list of fora will become too long?
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:10:00 PM)
or you get kicked
zlokitty (May 29, 2010 2:10:09 PM)
nice to meet all of you...hope to see you in ORD...hey, I'm learning. Ciao
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:10:15 PM)
Indeed, I would like to see a restructure of the Dining forums
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:10:25 PM)
oh too funny gleff - i was just thinking how much we appreciate you guys doing this & hoping it would happen again.
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:10:30 PM)
test
dhammer53 (May 29, 2010 2:10:36 PM)
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zlokitty (May 29, 2010 2:10:45 PM)
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MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 2:10:47 PM)
the destinations list is too long--it takes forever to scroll down to community
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:11:04 PM)
You can use MyFlyertalk to customize the forum display
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:11:05 PM)
do you know that you can set up 'my flyertalk'?
wharvey (May 29, 2010 2:11:09 PM)
Gary, any way you can encourage a majority of TB members to attend these? I had thought that was going to happen....
wharvey (May 29, 2010 2:11:16 PM)
but thank the four of you for hosting!
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:11:26 PM)
@MSPeconomist - my view too
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:11:28 PM)
William I actually expected that as well, but two folks had some flight issues as I understand it
wharvey (May 29, 2010 2:11:31 PM)
especially for the non-usa TB members
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:11:33 PM)
that kept them away
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:11:36 PM)
@wharvey: we had flight issues
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 2:11:51 PM)
I'll have to investigate my flyertalk more....
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:11:53 PM)
well hopefully they got compensation
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:11:57 PM)
truth be told, I was looking for a bump yesterday/today too
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:12:12 PM)
Love the members, but I love compensation too
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:12:15 PM)
I hope to be in NY in June, and if we did one then it wouldn't mean me staying up so late
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:12:20 PM)
And how!
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:12:42 PM)
I really am bummed that the Continental management will take over United, a clear end to my Skykits
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:12:49 PM)
So... any more issues?
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:13:11 PM)
Thanks to all the members who turned up too - on a Holiday weekend no less.
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:13:12 PM)
whats my flyertalk?
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:13:12 PM)
i missed part of what was discussed when i was off, so don't know what i missed. but i'm good.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:13:13 PM)
not at the moment?
eeee (May 29, 2010 2:13:25 PM)
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Markie (May 29, 2010 2:13:31 PM)
I hope Randy can recover the chat and we can then post it fo everyone
Spiff (May 29, 2010 2:13:35 PM)
Thanks for joining us!
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:13:37 PM)
I do expect we'll do this again, at least I will encourage it. And I was skeptical
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:13:37 PM)
will there be a transcript of the chat for those who wanted to make it but couldn't?
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:13:46 PM)
Good to have these discussions though I think even though some probably don't like to mingle with the masses
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:13:47 PM)
@Markie I do have some notes to post
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:14:01 PM)
But I'll ask about recovering a transcript
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:14:19 PM)
@gleff - good, some immediate feedback would be good to keep the momentum going.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:14:30 PM)
there have been transcripts posted before so unless IB changed it, hopefully that would work.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:14:43 PM)
Randy did say he had access to them in the past
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:14:48 PM)
i know a couple of the folk from oz posted they couldn't make it due to it being 5am or something.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:15:04 PM)
downundergirl did
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:15:08 PM)
Those Ozzies, no stamina
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:15:20 PM)
and one had a java issue where it was going to take forever from hotel to load it.
PFKMan23 (May 29, 2010 2:15:21 PM)
that's unavoidable though given time zones and such
B747-437B (May 29, 2010 2:15:29 PM)
grrrr, i want to take a machete to chat right now
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:15:32 PM)
agreed.
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:15:39 PM)
We need a new chat!
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:15:41 PM)
Sounds like we're good then for today, I will post some notes and I'm asking for a transcript which I'll get posted if possible.
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:15:42 PM)
post in tech issues 747
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:15:59 PM)
IB knows that chat is not sufficiently functional
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:16:01 PM)
OK, well I am off to bed if that's everything
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:16:08 PM)
But more griping might get it higher up in the development queue
SkiAdcock (May 29, 2010 2:16:17 PM)
thanks. again, many thanks to all the TB members who participated. i need to get to my event now, so my 'dead car battery' is miraculously working again
MSPeconomist (May 29, 2010 2:16:23 PM)
this was interesting for a relative newcomer. thanks
Markie (May 29, 2010 2:16:27 PM)
If we use it more and say it's inhibiting the membership....perhaps it will work
gleff (May 29, 2010 2:16:28 PM)
Thanks to everyone, I really do appreciate y'all coming out - members and TB members (who are also members) alike