TalkBoard Topics - Is it appropriate to charge an administrative fee for FT events?

Has this been addressed by Talk Board in the past?

The topic was raised on the OzFest thread this week concerning future events. One member has suggested a $10 fee be charged to attend an event to cover administrative costs, with any leftover money from this fund donated to charity. Other members have countered that they have absorbed these costs in the past and not passed them on, and as volunteers would not consider an administrative fee.

I can't recall paying a user fee to attend FT events in the past, though would not be surprised if some prepaid dinners had a few dollars added in there to cover any extra costs.

Is there a policy regarding administrative fees to attend FT events? Does this fall within the purview of Talk Board or the purview of the Community forum moderator, or perhaps neither of those and is the sole decision of the event organizer?

I personally wouldn't consider this a question of moderation, although I have not talked to my comods on this.

One do I've personally organised, because of potential currency fluctuations, we had to add a comfort blanket into conversions between £ and $ - in the event, they stayed within our estimated boundaries, giving us a financial cushion for the event which we used to cover do expenses, provide some extras at the do and donated the rest to charity - we did say at the outset that we would donate to charity any money we had outstanding.

As an organiser, I've seen me spending up at $150 on expenses for ado, not including my own costs of travel and attendance, and that's for a small do with 40-50 attendees. Now, I chose to do that, and chose to put in the time organising as well. However if running a mega do, with 200 attendees, you can't expect the organiser(s) to have to cover all costs of putting on the do. Doing the mega do in London, we quickly realised that even being out by £1 per person on our cost estimates would add up to a large additional charge to be born by the organisers. And of course, that would be in addition to the substantial amount of time going in. But we shouldn't allow Dos to just be the purview of those who can afford to do stuff like that.

My personal feeling is that if a do organiser wishes to get some admin costs back, then I don't see a massive problem with this, so long as the admin fees are reasonable. None of us are professionals at doing this, and if we weren't willing to step up, there would be no dos.

I do not believe that it is the place of TalkBoard or the Moderators to attempt to legislate this.

The only "condition" that FlyerTalk sets with regards to events advertised on the forums is that there is no restriction placed upon the attendance of any registered member presently in good standing provided they are subject to the same attendance criteria (eg. payment/registration deadlines, etc...) as other members attending.

When it comes to member-organised events, FlyerTalk simply serves as the forum of advertisement for an event that physically occurs wholly outside its jurisdiction. The organisers of these events, in as far as the organisation of the event is not intended for commercial purposes (in which case it would fall under the advertising policy), have virtually unlimited discretion to determine how these are organised, which vendors are selected to provide services and how the event itself is marketed towards FlyerTalk users.

If an event organiser chooses to apply a service charge to cover administrative costs, so long as this is done transparently there should be no problem as far as FlyerTalk is concerned. There will be some participants who will inevitably disagree with this position and may vocally boycott events as a result. However, that is their personal decision just as any decision to impose a charge is the personal decision of the organiser who imposes it.

If someone is generous to give their time to organize an amazing weekend where I can explore a city hitherto unknown to me in the company of like spirited people, I certainly don't want them stuck with an out of pocket expense for doing so. I'm bewildered that anyone would consider that appropriate. It's generous enough that they are donating what might be hundreds of hours of preparation, as well as taking on any risk on signing contracts giving minimum number of participants.

I know someone who spent $400 out of his own pocket to cover expenses at an event. I know someone else who has a great gift for organizing, but has no financial depth to be able to cover such an expense. Does that mean that the second person shouldn't be an organizer? I would hope that participants would understand that they need to pay their own way, and that includes the admin costs.

tom911,

Truth be told, a thank you is all I'm looking for. I couldn't charge enough money for all the time and effort I, and other Do organizers put into their function(s). This is a labor of love. It gives me great pleasure to host Flyertalkers when they come to the NY area. :cool: All fees for the BRT, and this year the pre-paid WineDo, are calculated upfront. In past years, I reminded everyone that there may be a cash call if for some reason folks drop out. Getting pre-payment is key to not getting burnt. No organizer should be stuck for out-of-pocket expenses. I will admit to rounding up by a nickel for one event. Let's see, that's 50 x 5 cents. :D

Every year, Do organizers learn from past events. I had to pick up for a meal for our bus driver on the BRT. This year, I added a few cents (and that's all it is) to cover the cost of his lunch. FYI, for WineDo 3 (pre-paid due to a private room), the actual amount asked for was $79.68, or $82.37 if you used Paypal. Next year I'll round up. ;)

I would say no to an administrative fee.

dh

Seems to me there's not really a problem that needs to be taken up here. I could see need for a policy if there was a rash of for-profit DOs that members were uncomfortable with, but otherwise.. what's driving the need? I'm open to hearing that there is one, I'm just not aware of what we're trying to solve out in the community?

At some level it could become difficult to distinguish between a for-profit event and an administrative fee, but there *is* a difference.

And I have no problem with fees being request to cover costs, as long as folks are upfront about what's being charged, what it's going for, and what will be done if there's cash left (or not enough!).

I also don't want the TalkBoard or Flyertalk to get into the business of auditing the financials of DOs. :o

I don't think admin fees at FT Dos falls under the purview (sp?) of TB.

I can see both sides to a small admin fee. On the one hand Do organizers do it because they want to, so no admin costs would be considered. But as noted some of the larger dos and/or complicated ones can incur additional costs, and not all the incidental costs are 50 x .05 like some of the examples on this thread. Or the organizer gets stiffed by folk not paying their share on certain activities like food/drink. On the larger groups some have started going to non-refundable prepaid, which helps eliminate some of the uncertainty (w/ a Paypal fee added if Paypal is charging). Others add a $1 or 2, or Euro etc, to cover any unexpected costs, which is fine by me.

I don't think anyone who's suggesting a small admin fee is looking at it as a money-making venture, especially if it's stated any excess will go to charity. If there are admin costs to be covered, as others have mentioned transparency is the key.

BTW - as a London Do organizer I've never asked for $$ up front, but haven't been thrilled when I got stiffed a couple years in a row, so out close to $300 each year (w/ the then exchange rate) which came out of my personal pocket. I don't mind my time & long-distance calls etc, but I am not happy when people eat/drink & leave w/o paying or don't pay what they ate/drank. Last year we had 14GBP left over. One FTer suggested I keep it based on prior years' experience of having to ante up for others; another insisted that each person get 1GBP back. I distributed the 14quid. But truthfully am now considering prepaid or just stick w/ Wagamama's where for the most part we can get individual checks ;) I like FTers, but not the freeloader ones.

Cheers.

...but otherwise.. what's driving the need? I'm open to hearing that there is one, I'm just not aware of what we're trying to solve out in the community?

I also don't want the TalkBoard or Flyertalk to get into the business of auditing the financials of DOs. :o

This is one of those "offline behavior is offline behavior" situations IMO.

FWIW, I've always added a buck or two to the cost of the SeaDoo meals. Call it rounding, or an admin fee...whatevers. I'm certainly not in a financial position to get stuck with a $300 bill at the end of the night.


I start planning months in advance, and that extra buffer gives me wiggle room in case prices go up, or I run into unexpected expenses. As said earlier.. incremental expenses for a group of 12 can be very different than in a group of 60

Last years buffer paid for that pimped out porta potty for the BBQ.

For Do's I've attended... I've never even CONSIDERED asking if a host has put in a buffer. If I feel I'm getting a good value for my cost, and I can afford it... then I'll go. If not, then I'll stay home.

If I'm throwing in a few extra bucks for name tags, the hosts meal, parking, etc., then so be it. I don't care, and I don't expect anyone to show me a detailed accounting...and to be honest, I expect the same courtesy.

If you don't feel that my event is giving you your moneys worth... don't come... but don't expect me to whip out a spreadsheet and receipts.

Good post missy on all your points, but it's worthless w/o pics of the pimped out porta potty ;) :D

Cheers.

Good post missy on all your points, but it's worthless w/o pics of the pimped out porta potty ;) :D

Cheers.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12241107-post451.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12241107-post451.html

That is SO worth an adminstrative fee! ^:D

Cheers.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12241107-post451.html

Anytime I see a portapotty reference, I feel obligated to post a link to one of the greatest songs about portapotty's ever....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJjz4AC5gXE

My personal feeling is that if a do organiser wishes to get some admin costs back, then I don't see a massive problem with this, so long as the admin fees are reasonable. None of us are professionals at doing this, and if we weren't willing to step up, there would be no dos.

Agree completely. The funds aren't being solicited in exchange for goods or services. There's a DO in Chicago in October where there was a 20.00 registration fee to help cover costs - I'm totally good with that there are costs associated with organizing events - and it also helps gauge accurate counts and commitments - turns "lookers into bookers"...so I don't have an issue with it and I don't think it's something that the TB could really make a rule about.

As many others have said, if you don't like what an organiser is asking you to pay, you don't have to attend their event. Personally I'm more than happy to pay extra to help cover organisers' costs - it's the least I could do for all the time and effort they put in to setting things up.

A lot of people know that due to health issues I don't eat many foods. As many Dos have dinner/lunch/etc components, usually with a fixed menu, it's sometimes hard to work out why I'm forking out $60-$70 when all I'm going to eat are a few bits of bread or a bowl of fries. But then I remember that I'm going to be in the company of awesome people, with many interesting stories to tell and tips to share. And that is invaluable.

OzFest this year was an interesting test to see where the lines of moderation end when it comes to outside events. The internet is a wild west which FT is part of, and the moderators do a great job at policing the community. However, out there in the real world we have existing bodies and government agencies to do the policing for us, and I don't think it's the place of FT moderators to police real-world events, whether financial or otherwise.

You can look at the relevant posts in that thread from here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/communitybuzz/965568-oz-fest-7-adelaide-south-australia-memorial-day-weekend-may-28-30-2010-a-31.html#post14050450

My basic objection was to this:... be financed by a small registration fee (no more than AUD10). ...One of my replies to jenbel was:I have no problem with registration system; I even developed my own to suit my needs.

I also have no issue with pre-paying. I used Paypal last month to pay for the BRT in 10 days and expect to pre-pay for September's VIE do in the next few months.

What I do object to is a specific "Administration Fee" to finance such a system. That's when a DO begins to lose its character and becomes something else.Note that there were 75 OzFest attendees 'registered' within 7 days of the event (two had cancelled flights and two pulled out). If a $10 admin fee had been charged this year that would mean an administration bucket of $750.

As inferred earlier in this thread, who determines what is spent, where it is spent and what is the "unspent" total that's to be donated to a charity? (what charity?) (maybe an Auditor? If so, how much does the Auditor charge?)

In reply to a question referring to organizers being forced to dip into their pockets I posted this:...

People volunteer to assist with the organization of do's as they can; no-one is forced as you posted.

Significant costs are sometimes pre-paid or sometimes worked out at a dinner table or some other way - whatever the organizer wants. Those attending Do's tacitly accept the organisers arrangements.

As I previously posted, I see such fees aneathema to what FT DO's are about. To introduce such a fee is the first stage of these things ceasing to be DO's and becoming commercial events.To summarize: I do not believe it is appropriate for such a registration fee to be charged for Do's and any costs/arrangments/payments for Do's should be solely between the organisers and attendees to sort out.

I do not believe that it is the place of TalkBoard or the Moderators to attempt to legislate this.

Seems to me there's not really a problem that needs to be taken up here.

I don't have an issue with it and I don't think it's something that the TB could really make a rule about.


Well 3 of the TalkBoard members I respect greatly all see no future, or need for this. :)

I too served on TalkBoard for a couple of years, and also would have voted that this matter has nothing to with TalkBoard.

I ran the recent OzFest#7 for the most part, and many of the others in the past, and see no need whatever to charge an Admin fee or Registration fee.

They are what they are – a loosely arranged gathering of FT’ers from all over the globe – this month about 75 of them.

OzFests are unusual in that whilst annual, they are NOT in the same city.

The city changes, and hence there are often serious expenses to organisers.

If FT’ers do not like the way Doos are run . . they vote with their feet, and do not come. Simple as that. :cool:

ozfests get bigger each year, so presumably we do something right somewhere. :D

No-one expects a fee, and to offer it may possibly even attract folks offering for the wrong reasons. The FLYERTALK way is generally for pure volunteers to run things.

Ad-Hoc type of Committees often do it, but they do work here at least. And generally the core of them are folks with a long and proven track record here behind them, which is important. A year is a long time on Flyertalk sometimes. :)

Last year itsalongwaydown made a few trips to Cairns in advance on his own dime to join up the dots, and I am sure was not for one moment expecting to be recompensed by those attending.

Margo and I made trips to Hobart and Adelaide to do the same - and ditto, despite many $100s of real money being expended - probably $750 for this one alone. OUR choice.

Serfty road tested places to eat and visit in MEL – and the same story.

Each large FT Doo on any continent has a mix of a very few folks who whine and whinge about most things, and fortunately a LOT of folks who enjoy whatever is organized for them, and go with the flow.

I presume that is how their lives outside Doos are also run, and that is of course human nature. “Vive la difference.” @:-)

There is no magic solution re restaurants and hotels chosen, as someone will always complain. Again luckily only a small % each time, so it all works out for the group as a whole.

Folks with “strict dietary requirements” that cannot attend anything organized for the group, magically forget that totally when at Hotel lounge snack spreads it often seems, and wolf down all food of all types not bolted down! :D

Again human nature, and the same old faces usually have the same stories in general, and yet life goes on.

Some folks seem to want to be able to turn up, and pick and choose at their leisure what they will attend - or not attend, no matter what they have signed up for, and pay based on that. The same handles pop up each year in my experience.

So a full pre-pay a week or two out is a good policy as it saves the OTHER attendees from financial exposure.

If we do Darwin in 2010 as seems likely, there would be a Kakadu "Yellow River" day in there for sure I am told.

Say the tour operator quotes a flat $3,000 to take a bus/boat/guide out for that superb experience. If 30 sign up and pre-pay it is $100 each. If 15 change their mind within the last week, it is then $200 each, to pay the guy his $3,000. Ouch.

I stress that in my view the pre-pay option is not to preclude those who have genuine reasons not to make OzFest, from being out of pocket. That occurs every year, and you should not need to lose the full amount pre-paid if you cancel several weeks out, and make that clear on thread.

For this OzFest#7 a week out from the event coaches were fully prepaid, and all dinners were prepaid, or large deposits taken, and firm guaranteed numbers made to them, to ensure our very large group could secure busy Friday/Saturday spaces. And that was made crystal clear to all - up front.

From that point on, you are financially committed no matter what, and all other attendees know THEIR cost likewise cannot increase, which is fair to those who do come, and actively support the Doo.

We are all regular flyers. It is like booking a non refundable airline ticket a week out, at that cut-off point. We all understand that concept. :D

And still the Doos go on. And will always go on – as long as FT exists. And nobody expects a fee for organising them I suggest.

Glen

That is SO worth an adminstrative fee! ^:D

Cheers.

I agree. Missy's bbq was fantastic last summer but this uber snazzy portalet gave it the final touch of glamour.....oh, it had double sinks too.....:D
Sorry, off topic.

Well 3 of the TalkBoard members I respect greatly all see no future, or need for this. :)

I too served on TalkBoard for a couple of years, and also would have voted that this matter has nothing to with TalkBoard.

I ran the recent OzFest#7 for the most part, and many of the others in the past, and see no need whatever to charge an Admin fee or Registration fee.

They are what they are – a loosely arranged gathering of FT’ers from all over the globe – this month about 75 of them.

OzFests are unusual in that whilst annual, they are NOT in the same city.

The city changes, and hence there are often serious expenses to organisers.

If FT’ers do not like the way Doos are run . . they vote with their feet, and do not come. Simple as that. :cool:

ozfests get bigger each year, so presumably we do something right somewhere. :D

No-one expects a fee, and to offer it may possibly even attract folks offering for the wrong reasons. The FLYERTALK way is generally for pure volunteers to run things.

Ad-Hoc type of Committees often do it, but they do work here at least. And generally the core of them are folks with a long and proven track record here behind them, which is important. A year is a long time on Flyertalk sometimes. :)

Last year itsalongwaydown made a few trips to Cairns in advance on his own dime to join up the dots, and I am sure was not for one moment expecting to be recompensed by those attending.

Margo and I made trips to Hobart and Adelaide to do the same - and ditto, despite many $100s of real money being expended - probably $750 for this one alone. OUR choice.

Serfty road tested places to eat and visit in MEL – and the same story.

Each large FT Doo on any continent has a mix of a very few folks who whine and whinge about most things, and fortunately a LOT of folks who enjoy whatever is organized for them, and go with the flow.

I presume that is how their lives outside Doos are also run, and that is of course human nature. “Vive la difference.” @:-)

There is no magic solution re restaurants and hotels chosen, as someone will always complain. Again luckily only a small % each time, so it all works out for the group as a whole.

Folks with “strict dietary requirements” that cannot attend anything organized for the group, magically forget that totally when at Hotel lounge snack spreads it often seems, and wolf down all food of all types not bolted down! :D

Again human nature, and the same old faces usually have the same stories in general, and yet life goes on.

Some folks seem to want to be able to turn up, and pick and choose at their leisure what they will attend - or not attend, no matter what they have signed up for, and pay based on that. The same handles pop up each year in my experience.

So a full pre-pay a week or two out is a good policy as it saves the OTHER attendees from financial exposure.

If we do Darwin in 2010 as seems likely, there would be a Kakadu "Yellow River" day in there for sure I am told.

Say the tour operator quotes a flat $3,000 to take a bus/boat/guide out for that superb experience. If 30 sign up and pre-pay it is $100 each. If 15 change their mind within the last week, it is then $200 each, to pay the guy his $3,000. Ouch.

I stress that in my view the pre-pay option is not to preclude those who have genuine reasons not to make OzFest, from being out of pocket. That occurs every year, and you should not need to lose the full amount pre-paid if you cancel several weeks out, and make that clear on thread.

For this OzFest#7 a week out from the event coaches were fully prepaid, and all dinners were prepaid, or large deposits taken, and firm guaranteed numbers made to them, to ensure our very large group could secure busy Friday/Saturday spaces. And that was made crystal clear to all - up front.

From that point on, you are financially committed no matter what, and all other attendees know THEIR cost likewise cannot increase, which is fair to those who do come, and actively support the Doo.

We are all regular flyers. It is like booking a non refundable airline ticket a week out, at that cut-off point. We all understand that concept. :D

And still the Doos go on. And will always go on – as long as FT exists. And nobody expects a fee for organising them I suggest.

Glen

I agree no fees for the Dos but still think prepaying by credit card, paypal beforehand makes organizers lives simpler rather than trying to collect from attendees when they arrive.

I was the one who asked if there was any way I could prepay for myself and Hans by credit card before the Oz Do, it was arranged by one of you organizers and I think it was helpful to you and definitely a relief to me not to be hauling all that cash with me.

Dede - yes I was pretty laid back about it, until Allan pointed out I'd be carrying $13,600 in CASH on the weekend! :eek: :cool:

------------

But to address Tom's thread heading -

"Is it appropriate to charge an administrative fee for FT events?"

While I personally see no need to do it for OzFests, if any other Doo organisers think it is wise they should be free to do so.

IF it is made very clear up front.

Then attendees are in the picture and if they turn up are agreeing to it. $10 or so is around the cost of a beer or wine, let's face it, so will not send anyone broke. :D

I had 3 FT'ers gatecrash last Friday's dinner, cheerfully drinking booze others had paid for etc, and the restaurant added $195 for them to the bill. OK, I talked them out of it in the end, and gave the interlopers a piece of my mind.

However this kind of annoying thing occurs at most if not all large multi day Doos (unseen by most attendees) and a few bucks buffer being sought by some organisers is more than likely as these type of members have cost them $$$'s in the past.

Glen

As an organiser who nearly had her purse dipped with £200 of do money in it - I've become a lot more paranoid about how to handle sums of money associated with Dos.

Fortunately, I'm also paranoid about anyone touching my bag and he wasn't as subtle as he could be - and the do attendees I was with quickly formed a protective circle :eek:

Anyway, that aside, I think it's fair to say that there is no one true way. We all have our methods of organisation - and our own limits of how much we are willing to contribute from our own pockets to run a do successfully. I don't think anyone has the right to categorically say there should be no admin or resgistration fees - I think it's upto members to decide if they want to attend events which have those. If they prove unpopular, it would die out pretty fast.

Would I go to a do that had charged an registration fee or a admin fee? I already have. It's about whether I want to go to the do, and whether I can afford to go to a do. And at the end of the day, I don't see anyone refusing to go to a do on a point of principle because the organiser has decided the admin costs are not going to come out their own money. And if they do, it's their own loss.

And those who charge the things but run a poor do, where those attending didn't feel they got value for money, will soon be known and I bet future dos would be poorly attended.

Just got this email regarding the 2nd Star Mega Do:


...
This registration will have to be secured by a 100$ non refundable
deposit using a paypal button at the end of the form. The 100$ will be
adjusted later against the charter booking.

The reason we are asking to put down some money is that last year we
got 558 sign ups which in the end materialized to about 220 actual
bookings, the last 20 of which came only about two weeks before the
event.
...



I see nothing wrong with this $100 deposit. Having only 39% of people that expressed interest actually pay up and join the Do in the end shows why "interested" numbers should sometimes not be relayed to hosts of specific events (restaurants, wineries, bus charters, plane charters) as a gauge of how many people are going to be there.

I don't really have a view either way. If a fee is charged, then people *may* avoid the Do, or may choose to pay it.

On a similar vein. Is it appropriate for a Do organiser to take a kickback from an organisation used (in the form of an upgraded room / free meal / free tour) as part of their organisation capacity? If this does occur, it may not be disclosed to Do participants.

The $100 deposit is that - a deposit, and will be applied to the overall booking.

For purposes of the should an admin fee be charged, again - besides it not being a concern of TB (presumably the point of this thread) - I don't think anyone is planning a round-the-world trip on admin fees, whether they be $1 or $10 ;).

And if it's disclosed up front, then people have the choice to attend or let the admin fee be their deterrent. To each their own.

Cheers.

The $100 deposit is that - a deposit, and will be applied to the overall booking.

For purposes of the should an admin fee be charged, again - besides it not being a concern of TB (presumably the point of this thread) - I don't think anyone is planning a round-the-world trip on admin fees, whether they be $1 or $10 ;).

And if it's disclosed up front, then people have the choice to attend or let the admin fee be their deterrent. To each their own.

Cheers.

As a former travel consultant/group planner, I agree.....I never took a group anywhere that had not been prepaid.....and I admit that after base pricing everything, I always had to add 3%,.......this was to cover unforseen costs that always arose, after the best laid plans.....and often 3% was not enough.....it might go as high as 7%.....

Some people complained, most did not, but as OZ stamps said, some will whine anyway.

The FT Do planners work hard, do not profit and if they get an extra bottle of bubbly in their room, they deserve it.

As you say, Sharon, Cheers!

Dede

This year's Austin Mega Do cost me $400 in out of pocket expenses that I did not pass along to the attendees. That pinched a bit, but I learned a lot about putting on Do's, so I consider that a hard lesson that I will learn from going forward among many others.

My administrative expenses were mostly from using RegOnline as a registration and pre-pay resource. I did not pass along the cost of this for this event and that was my mistake. But, I would not ever consider hosting another one without using RegOnline or something like it.

So, when we begin taking reservations for Austin Mega Do 2 in 2012, I would expect to see an administrative fee in addition to whatever pre-pay events there may be. If anyone has a problem with that, then you certainly don't have to come.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I don't really have a view either way. If a fee is charged, then people *may* avoid the Do, or may choose to pay it.

On a similar vein. Is it appropriate for a Do organiser to take a kickback from an organisation used (in the form of an upgraded room / free meal / free tour) as part of their organisation capacity? If this does occur, it may not be disclosed to Do participants.
I've had a couple of dinners paid by those attending the do as a thank you for organising- are you saying I shouldn't accept?

Frankly, if i got a kickback such as an upgrade, I wouldn't actually consider that the business of the attendees. I would consider it recognition from the hotel etc of the business that I have brought their way. And I'll take the upgrade, because anything which makes my life a little more comfortable and a little easier is welcome.

We're volunteers. We're doing this in our spare time. At its best its fantastic - but it can leave us stressed, exhausted, with little/no time to enjoy the events and the people who are present. We may have to deal with attendees having things stolen, being involved in accidents, having medical issues, wrecking the facilities, calling out the emergency services, fights between attendees, imbibing too much and the inevitable consequences of that, getting lost, losing things, having to rush home for bad news, attendees not making it at all due to weather, dos getting stranded because of weather meaning the entire programme has to be redone at the drop of a hat etc (and I've been at a do when all of these has happened, fortunately, i wasn't always the organiser :eek: ) and we're the person on the spot who is meant to know what to do to help or solve the problem.

We do it because we enjoy it. We don't do it because we make money out of it - it would have to make serious money before it would recompense me for the time that might go into it. We aren't doing it for kickbacks. If we happen to get some - so what?!

(If i got a free tour though, I'd probably use it to discount everyone else's though..)

(and one larger one - probably never again) I am totally ok with DO organizers charging an admin fee, even if the entire fee goes into the organizers' pockets. There are ALWAYS expenses oyu don't count on as an organizer, from taxi rides to someone who doesn't pay to an extra bottle of wine to...any number of things. In any budget I prepare for theater grants etc there's always a "contingency fee" - usually a small amount but it covers those unforeseen expenses that always pop up.

Thant said I don't think it need TB or the mods to address or regulate it. If an individual DO seems to be excessive in its admin charges, members will vote with their feet and/or report the posting to the excellent community mods.

In the case cited on the OzFest, where there's a potential for a 750 AUD overage - I am sure the do organizers will it worth the attendees while.

The FT Do planners work hard, do not profit and if they get an extra bottle of bubbly in their room, they deserve it.



At the bakery stop a few years back, the owner gave me some cookies as a thank you for bring so many people into her shop, which were promptly passed around on the BRT. She only did that once.



My administrative expenses were mostly from using RegOnline as a registration and pre-pay resource. I did not pass along the cost of this for this event and that was my mistake. But, I would not ever consider hosting another one without using RegOnline or something like it.




William, the administrative fees that you mention are a cost of the DO; therefore, they need to be factored in to the price. It's ok to be a nice guy, but not if it's going to cost you. The funny thing is that $10 for this, and $25 for that, start to add up real fast. Whether you ask for $31 or $32.50, nobody will care. You can estimate these costs and build them into the price. If you have additional funds left over, you can always give everyone a rebate. As a matter of fact, in < 2 weeks, I'll be carrying some dollar bills with me on the BRT, that is unless some other hidden cost comes along. ;)

Call me in 2012. ;)

My personal view is that we have enough rules about FT DO's at present. I am not inclinded to agree to have TB or the Mods implement any further rules.

Transparency is everything - if there is a service charge (and haven't we all learned to love those in recent years), then I think it needs to be explained. That being said, when signing up for an event we all make decisions about cost vs. the experience and choose to attend, or not based on the answer.

My personal view is that we have enough rules about FT DO's at present. I am not inclinded to agree to have TB or the Mods implement any further rules.



Well that makes 4 of 4 Talkboard members posting here so far who see no merit in this idea. :)

Glen

I've had a couple of dinners paid by those attending the do as a thank you for organising- are you saying I shouldn't accept?

<snip>

We do it because we enjoy it. We don't do it because we make money out of it - it would have to make serious money before it would recompense me for the time that might go into it. We aren't doing it for kickbacks. If we happen to get some - so what?!

(If i got a free tour though, I'd probably use it to discount everyone else's though..)

I'm not saying it's wrong, or pointing fingers at anyone, I was just asking the question.

What happens between attendees and the organiser is their own business. Whether it involves shouting them free drinks, their dinner, buying them a present, or do nothing is their own choice. It's no different to which credit card is handed over for the bill at the end of the night - up to the group to decide who gets the points.

A couple of better scenarios might be:
- Organiser arranges a tour of a wildlife park including a jungle lunch after seeing the lions. There are 50 do attendees @ 50 pounds each. As part of the rate arranged with the wildlife park, there are two "free" spots available. Total cost is 2400 pounds.

So should the organiser charge everyone 50 pounds, except themselves and their partner/friend, should they charge everyone (including themselves) 48 pounds etc.

And if there are free places given as part of the tour (with everyone paying the 50 pounds), should this be kept secret from attendees?

Another scenario:
Do organiser arranges a group rate with a hotel - that rate is 5 pounds / night cheaper than the best available rate, but not as cheap as a prepaid rate. They are told by the hotel that if they get 50 rooms taken under the conference rate, they will be given a free King Deluxe Suite in the hotel for the duration of the Do.

Again, should this be kept secret?

Folks with “strict dietary requirements” that cannot attend anything organized for the group, magically forget that totally when at Hotel lounge snack spreads it often seems, and wolf down all food of all types not bolted down! :D

Glen

This is funny! ^

Organizing my first event a UA MR seminar for 2 days in August, has me nervous for certain. Upgradedfirst has been phenomenal in stepping in and finding the hotel, conference room, meal vouchers etc... and has taken a load off my mind. There is always more costs involved rather than less, thus I believe simply rounding up as an organizer when needed is prudent. Itemizing all costs as admin fee is not needed. If I don't think what is being charged is worth it I won't go.

Both seminars are absolutely free, however I know myself and upgradedfirst will incur costs unforeseen. Being my first event I will learn from it and change appropriately, as needed.

^ to all those who organize events for as others have noted, without those volunteers there would be no DO's.

Some people complained, most did not, but as OZstamps said, some will whine anyway.

The FT Do planners work hard, do not profit, and if they get an extra bottle of bubbly in their room, they deserve it.



Sad disclosure - no bottle of bubbly or anything else in my Hilton room except a plate of anti-pasta on check-in, and paying exactly the same web non-fundable rate as most attendees, but sometimes Karma does work. :D

I passed on all names of our 100+ hotel night guests to Hilton Adelaide General Manager a day out, and he upgraded all those with no status (quite a few) to Deluxe rooms, and arranged special "FT OzFest" personal messages from him to all rooms, and truffles and cookies, and bottles of bubbly to several of them too - no apparent pattern there.

However as to the karma - magic111 was one of the bubbly recipients, and bought it down to the lounge as a "thank you" to me, as he does not drink alcohol. :)

Now this being a VERY nice brand - Hardy's, and me being a rather legendary bubbly drinker, and the bar not open yet, thought it only polite to open Jim's thoughtful gesture. :D :D :p

Lounge hostess OK'd it as it still had the Hilton "gift" tag around neck.

Indeed as a footnote I really need to add a plug here. Hilton Adelaide went above and beyond the usual - by miles.

A senior Manager (who is a keen FT "Lurker"!) had breakfast with me in the lounge on day #1, and quietly and efficiently fixed all kinds of issues I bought to his attention during the next 4 days.

Folks missing planes and otherwise needing to forfeit pre-paid rooms etc and being able to move them no penalty and those kind of little glitches, and a few other incidents I better not type here. @:-)

He kept in touch, and met many of the attendees and they really went the extra yard. Sure there were a lot of rooms we booked by FT'ers, but for those running weekend Doos having a recommended "Hotel Central" where possible, really does pay off.

I do that every time. Many folks of course choose somewhere else, and their call, but having groups of 50 waiting for a coach etc in ONE place is a big plus to getting away on time, and not waiting for someone 2 miles away stuck in traffic in their cab.

We essentially took over the entire lounge last Sunday evening (below are all FT'ers) and for Doo organisers getting personal contact with someone on high really can smooth waters at times.

Glen

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/ozstamps/EIGHT/1-28.jpg

But you are considering that this situation might arise, and by asking for a general discussion on it, suggesting that Do organisers are not able to resolve these matters for themselves. It just strikes me as micro-management.

I think I'm sensitive because I'm seeing a certain slant to the discussion here, which is slanted in the 'how do we stop do organisers 'over-charging' attendees?' - where over-charging means charging any more than the absolute bare bones cost of the events.

That's a terribly one-sided discussion, with an implicit tone that do organisers are only in this for themselves.

I don't see much discussion or attempts to micromanage things which happen more frequently like, what recourse do organisers have for people who attend but refuse to pay, or who gatecrash, not having paid, or who are weather bound so unable to attend the events they have indicated they would (which might be pre-pay or pay as you go) and how you handle the sensitive issue of whether they pay or not (some expect to pay, some don't - some charges you might be able to return to them, some you need them to pay). The vast majority of do organisers will be aware of all of these issues because most of us will have faced them - I've had people non-pay, and I've had weather related no shows, but I've never received any bennies from hotels etc for organising! And we know there are serial offenders out there for the non-paying thing - one former member was absolutely notorious amongst do organisers for either underpaying, or for pre-paid events, graciously turning up at events they hadn't paid for and then grazing on the plates of those who had paid and had left over food. And while they were a member, we had to try and balance the requirements of the TOS with being able to work with do organisers who might not have been aware of their habits to ensure that those do organisers didn't get stiffed by the person.

It is very easy, and I am very aware that I am doing this, to get sensitive to any perceived criticism as a do organiser. You put such a lot of yourself into a do - I have people flying in from all over the world for my Island Do and I have a tremendous responsibilty to ensure that the do is good enough to justify them going to that effort to do that. And now I'm being questioned as to whether I am really an honest person doing that, and whether I am trying to make a quick buck out of the Do at the attendee's expense.

What might be worth raising is that do organisers don't really have a place to ask for help on FT, or discuss the technical geeky mechanics of running a do. I've got an issue with my current do, that I don't want to air on the do thread, but I'd really like to get input from other organisers on to see if what I think is reasonable. It's not something I can or would want to post publicly for all to see - so I'll probably do what I've done in the past and talk privately to one or two other organisers whose opinions I trust.

Well 3 of the TalkBoard members I respect greatly all see no future, or need for this. :)

I too served on TalkBoard for a couple of years, and also would have voted that this matter has nothing to with TalkBoard.


I am also in agreement.

On a slightly tangentially related note, we (TalkBoard) are looking at putting together an advisory guide/FAQ for do organization, as this item came up in our chat about a week ago.

On a slightly tangentially related note, we (TalkBoard) are looking at putting together an advisory guide/FAQ for do organization, as this item came up in our chat about a week ago.

I have to say that some of the posts in this thread from people who have arranged DO's are pretty inspirational. That FT would bring together people who take the time to arrange these events is pretty impressive (understatement).

I think this thread would form the basis of a FAQ for prospective organisers and some PM's might share best practice.

I don't really have a view either way. If a fee is charged, then people *may* avoid the Do, or may choose to pay it.
On a similar vein. Is it appropriate for a Do organiser to take a kickback from an organisation used (in the form of an upgraded room / free meal / free tour) as part of their organisation capacity? If this does occur, it may not be disclosed to Do participants.
So you basically are worried that Do Organisers are dishonest?
Can I ask how many Dos you have attended?
Much less how many he has organized?
Again, I am asking a question. I am not pointing fingers, accusing anyone of anything, nor implying people are dishonest.
Would you prefer I deleted my posts in this thread?
Most here do not know me as I have never graced this thread before today and quite frankly I’m currently not sure that I want to again after what I am seeing. As the person listed to Co coordinate Oz Fest I have watch this thread with a variation of interest through disbelief and horror.

There are a huge amount of great ideas in this thread however quite frankly I am appalled at how someone (Aus_Mal) who is trying to get some clarity in his own mind about how a Do is setup and run has been turned on by some here. Why does someone who potentially has some valuable input get shot down because he may or may not have been to and/or organised a Do. It does not matter as the OP may be an experienced Project Manager or have absolutely no idea. He is still entitled to an opinion. By the by, Aus_Mal is a nice guy who has attended Frequent Flyer get togethers.

Some people obviously need a reality check. Organising a Do is not Rocket Science.

This WAS meant to be a constructive discussion about the pros and cons of charging an administrative fee for FT events. It has degenerated from that and IMHO runs the risk of being irrelevant. [Rant over]

The concept of charging an admin fee at Oz Fest was suggested by a relatively new FT person, who has not been to a FT Do previously but saw some merit and suggested same in an effort resolve some issues or potential issues that he saw. Personally I do not believe an admin fee is necessary for Oz Fest however his idea, like most ideas is worth considering. In some places and on some occasions it could be necessary but not for us at this stage. Just as some people have suggested using various packages to help with the organisation and if necessary using a little admin money to do so, it is not necessary for Oz Fest as we have our own human computer in Mwenenzi who somehow manages to scan all the posts and get all to make sense, serfty who lists everyone's flights, falconea who does brilliant name tags for all, Bundy Bear who collects CC money etc. I'm sure you get what I mean! In some ways ozstamps and I have it easy as we just find a few restaurants, organise a few bus trips and herd a bunch of stray cats.

If this discussion produces a set of ideas such as I have to say that some of the posts in this thread from people who have arranged DO's are pretty inspirational. That FT would bring together people who take the time to arrange these events is pretty impressive (understatement).
I think this thread would form the basis of a FAQ for prospective organisers and some PM's might share best practice., then that is wonderful as it would potentially make life easier for Do organisers.

We do need to remember though that we cannot have a one fits all situation as that would be entirely unworkable in the FT context.

Thanks for your time and I hope I did not upset too many people by speaking out because some of you certainly did upset me.

I'm not saying it's wrong, or pointing fingers at anyone, I was just asking the question.

What happens between attendees and the organiser is their own business. Whether it involves shouting them free drinks, their dinner, buying them a present, or do nothing is their own choice. It's no different to which credit card is handed over for the bill at the end of the night - up to the group to decide who gets the points.

A couple of better scenarios might be:
- Organiser arranges a tour of a wildlife park including a jungle lunch after seeing the lions. There are 50 do attendees @ 50 pounds each. As part of the rate arranged with the wildlife park, there are two "free" spots available. Total cost is 2400 pounds.

So should the organiser charge everyone 50 pounds, except themselves and their partner/friend, should they charge everyone (including themselves) 48 pounds etc.

And if there are free places given as part of the tour (with everyone paying the 50 pounds), should this be kept secret from attendees?

Another scenario:
Do organiser arranges a group rate with a hotel - that rate is 5 pounds / night cheaper than the best available rate, but not as cheap as a prepaid rate. They are told by the hotel that if they get 50 rooms taken under the conference rate, they will be given a free King Deluxe Suite in the hotel for the duration of the Do.

Again, should this be kept secret?

Since Jenbel is admitting a little bit of defensiveness on this subject, let me try to be objective ... no guarantees that I will succeed ;)

"should" is kind of a loaded word in these situations. Like has been said in this thread before.. there are so many different ways it "could" be handled, and different scenarios that "could" arise, that I'm certainly not going to make any judgements about what someone else "should" do.

In your jungle lunch scenario.. what *I* would "probably" do is comp my own entry fee... and put the other 50 into the contingency fund. If someone had to cancel due to an unforseen circumstance, and I knew they were hard up for cash.. i might offer it as a refund. Or I might buy a giant stuffed lion and have a raffle, or I might donate it to the wildlife park.

In your hotel scenario... I'll be honest and say I don't even understand that one. The prepaid hotel rate is going to be published. So its not like I'm sneaking one over on anyone. They can book the prepaid rate, or they can book the one I got. However, if I went through the trouble of trying to negotiate a good rate and none of my guests took advantage of it, I probably wouldn't bother again.

And I'd get the suite anyway, because they wouldn't dare to deny me ;)

Is Do planning rocket-science? No. But most of the regular, well reputed Do planners here make it look much easier than it really is behind the scenes. So it can be fairly easy for a planner to really not understand what they are getting into, which, as Starwood Lurker found out, can end up putting a largish pinch in your pocket.

I think what might be a sticking point in this thread is that administration fee has never been defined. I initially assumed it to be one that covers expenses for the event. There seems to be other interpretations, though. So let me state at a high level my own beliefs:


Should a Do Organizer be entitled to profit from running an event? No, absolutely not.
Should a Do organizer be free to structure fees for an event so that s/he breaks even? Yes
Should a Do organizer be free to self fund expenses? Yes, it is his/her choice.


There are a lot of ways to organize an event. We have a number of active Do organizers sharing experiences and approaches in this thread. A lot of us have learned from personal experience to mitigate the financial downside of organization. Different people will have different ideas about how that can be done, and it is great to share them. Larger events bring greater financial risk. It is essential that those who graciously step up and host learn from others how to do so so that they do not face losing a substantial sum.

As for the potential perks of hosting, I've never experienced them. I've hosted in four countries in 3 continents. Even when co-hosting an event for over two hundred people, the three of us were not offered a free meal or a discounted room. Is there is a back story where this has actually occurred? Otherwise, I believe that the energy ought to be put into helping organizers minimize losses.

missydarlin & SanDiego1K,

Talking from my own perspective alone, I thank you for bringing some calm, clarity ands sense back into this discussion. ^

regards,

Bill

Is there is a back story where this has actually occurred? Otherwise, I believe that the energy ought to be put into helping organizers minimize losses.

There is no backstory. It was a purely "I'm interested" type question. It seems people have taken it completely overboard and suspected I don't appreciate DO organisers (which I do), don't attend DOs (which I have), and don't organise them (No I haven't yet).

This thread was originally about whether Admin fees were appropriate. I have no view either way on that topic, but wondered about what the feeling was about "kickbacks" (perhaps that is the wrong word) that attendees didn't know about.

I think my contributions in this thread have come to a close. If the Talkboard is about to publish a FAQ/Advice thread about DOs, then that will be good. Perhaps it can also contain advice about potential conflicts of interest (if they exist). Perhaps it shouldn't.

One parting question (and I won't be back to clarify):
- A new member signs up, and has 100 posts over a 30 day period. Would people trust them to organise a DO, and would they send money to them over Paypal? Would they pay Admin fees as well?

One parting question (and I won't be back to clarify):
- A new member signs up, and has 100 posts over a 30 day period. Would people trust them to organise a DO, and would they send money to them over Paypal? Would they pay Admin fees as well?

Depends on the people, and the member I suppose. I offered to organize my first do within 2-3 months of joining...and people showed up.

Should a Do Organizer be entitled to profit from running an event? No, absolutely not.

Hmm. I should watch my back for that $3 profit I made on the NPE Do. I might get arrested or summin'. :D

A new member signs up, and has 100 posts over a 30 day period. Would people trust them to organise a DO, and would they send money to them over Paypal? Would they pay Admin fees as well?

As missy said, it definitely depends on the member. I remember creating my Amadeus PNR -> BA97 cal import tool a while back (not long after I joined FT) and people were hesitant to put their surnames, PNR #, and BA97 username/password into some "strange guy's" web form. :rolleyes:

To be fair, I don't blame them. I don't trust myself half the time. :D FTers are mostly a pretty intelligent bunch, and obviously took heed of their parents' advice to not take candy from strangers. Though once your parents have had the stranger over for dinner a couple times, I guess his candy is ok to take. :p

Depending on jurisdiction, the "administrative fee" may also be subject to VAT or other taxes and might require the organisers to register appropriately with the local tax authorities.

Well i got the more thorough investigation by Paypal for the sums that were going through my account because of Mega Do, because of money laundering legislation.

Unfortunately, they couldn't understand how someone could be processing thousands of pounds through her account without being a registered company. When I kept refusing to provide a company registration, and they kept threatening to block my account if I didn't I was advised to 'just make one up' by one of their call centre people - I did wonder how this meant their processes were really ensuring you couldn't be money laundering if they would be happily fooled by a made up company registration :eek:

Unintended consequences of do organisation :D

I organized a very small FT Do in Florence in 2005.

I visited and booked the dinner restaurants I chose for our small FT Do that included appetizers, pasta starters, two entrees to chose from, dessert, unlimited wine, coffee, water and generous tip to the waiters for a flat fee per person. The restaurants all took credit cards and charged the agreed price.

I had advised everyone attending by email of what dinners would cost. Result: Croupier thrown credit cards on the table and alot of very happy FTers. If I overestimated the costs, the waiters and restaurants may have had a lucky night....but better that than having to ask everyone for a few more euros.....Com e mai!

What did I get out of this small DO? Lots of thank yous and happiness at FTers joy and delight at being in my favorite city in the world. Did I get any perks? Well, some strawberry coated chocolates in my hotel room, I must disclose... I did not share.....but the true perk was sharing a mutual love for Florence.

...William, the administrative fees that you mention are a cost of the DO; therefore, they need to be factored in to the price. It's ok to be a nice guy, but not if it's going to cost you. The funny thing is that $10 for this, and $25 for that, start to add up real fast. Whether you ask for $31 or $32.50, nobody will care.

I factored in a few dollars over and above, as some other Do organizers suggested, but it was not enough to cover the end-result expenses. But, there were a few locals who took me to task for doing that, so - respectfully - some do care.

You can estimate these costs and build them into the price. If you have additional funds left over, you can always give everyone a rebate. As a matter of fact, in < 2 weeks, I'll be carrying some dollar bills with me on the BRT, that is unless some other hidden cost comes along. ;)

Well, I tried that and if I had any funds left over, I was going to either offer everybody a rebate or give the money to a Flyertalk charity. I was about $220 in the red due to the administrative fees of RegOnline that I did not pass along and lost another $180 when the tips did not meet 18% at one of the pre-paid events. Lesson learned. Pass along the administrative costs and always insist that tips are included in the final price negotiated at the restaurant.

Note: I am not bitter about this experience at all. If I was, we would not being doing it again in 2012. I consider that I learned a valuable lesson and...well...having 60 friends, associates, and curious onlookers join you for a weekend in Austin was a pretty good value considering it only cost me $400. :D

What was discouraging, however, was being told that I was out of line charging what I did for the pre-paid meals. Unlike some Do organizers, I do have receipts, a copy of the contracts, and a checking account set aside for this event and anyone is welcomed to take a look at them anytime they wish.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

What was discouraging, however, was being told that I was out of line charging what I did for the pre-paid meals.

No one has to attend a DO. And not every DO will be everyone's cup of tea.

They're a lot of work, they're a lot of fun, and only sometimes is there much in the way of thanks.

My wife and I were one of the lucky ones to have enjoyed a great weekend in Austin with you as host. Frankly it was priceless and I look forward to 2012 as there is plenty more barbeque i just know Texas has to offer me. We never once considered any of the expenses we paid to be part of this event to be anything but reasonable and well worth it. In fact, I just wish I knew the appropriate manner in which to have tipped you.

Long Live Do's.

Randy

If I was, we would not being doing it again in 2012.

In fact, I just wish I knew the appropriate manner in which to have tipped you.

Long Live Do's.

Randy

Stay at a Starwood and complain about it on FT, so he'll keep busy and maintain employment :)

I was once at a Do dinner that was not prepaid, and one table, that departed early, skipped out on a sizeable amount of $. When I and others learned of the shortage, I was shocked that anyone would short the others, and also shocked (in a good way) that those taking care of the dinner's finances had already quietly covered the shortage. (I was never a fan of prepaid events because I couldn't imagine that the crowd that hangs out here would ever do what happened above. Now I know why.)

I don't think a true "administrative fee" is in order, but certainly, due to all sorts of variables, I think anyone who collects a cushion, says so up front, and says something like "If there are leftovers, I'm going to ..." (such as Donate it to the Canine Dental Society, or Buy an extra bottle(s) of whatever for the event, or Give you back the extras, or Pay for my visit to the psychiatrist because you all drove me crazy planning the event :D) - or whatever.

I was once at a Do dinner that was not prepaid, and one table, that departed early, skipped out on a sizeable amount of $. When I and others learned of the shortage, I was shocked that anyone would short the others, and also shocked (in a good way) that those taking care of the dinner's finances had already quietly covered the shortage.

I think I know of which Do you speak.. and if it is, there is a rest of the story...wherein the early departing was planned, and at least one of the hosts was advised this was happening, but there was no way to ascertain what that table's share of the bill was until the meal was completely finished. So they paid later.

Stay at a Starwood and complain about it on FT, so he'll keep busy and maintain employment :)

I was once at a Do dinner that was not prepaid, and one table, that departed early, skipped out on a sizeable amount of $. When I and others learned of the shortage, I was shocked that anyone would short the others, and also shocked (in a good way) that those taking care of the dinner's finances had already quietly covered the shortage. (I was never a fan of prepaid events because I couldn't imagine that the crowd that hangs out here would ever do what happened above. Now I know why.)

I don't think a true "administrative fee" is in order, but certainly, due to all sorts of variables, I think anyone who collects a cushion, says so up front, and says something like "If there are leftovers, I'm going to ..." (such as Donate it to the Canine Dental Society, or Buy an extra bottle(s) of whatever for the event, or Give you back the extras, or Pay for my visit to the psychiatrist because you all drove me crazy planning the event :D) - or whatever.

Rather than get into specifics of which I have no knowledge (other than my own Dos), I'd say there's a perfect example of a 'cushion' being built in is a good idea, in the example above.

It's also a perfect example of how, while (forgetting missy's example where folk leaving early was preplanned) most of us assume that everyone will 'do the right thing' and ante up before they leave, but are surprised when they don't. I had someone at a Do who ate/drank & left long before the bill became due, but I didn't know it until the end of the night on collection where others sitting next to said person told me the person skipped out.

2 things:

* I think it's been well-established it's not TB's purview to sort out admin fees on FT Dos;

* Again, I don't think anyone is planning to get rich or do a 'around the world' trip based on admin fees :rolleyes:.

Heck, I'm guessing the person who 'tossed it out there as a possibility for next year' is probably regretting it, given the hailstorm it started.

* 'Admin fees' or overage & how it get works out varies by do. None are right or wrong. And if there's a bit of excess, donating to a charity is not a bad idea.

Cheers.

... or Pay for my visit to the psychiatrist because you all drove me crazy planning the event :D)
;) :D



And if there's a bit of excess, donating to a charity is not a bad idea.



Or buying some bakery goodies to get the group in the mood. :o

What was discouraging, however, was being told that I was out of line charging what I did for the pre-paid meals.

Now I think saying that to you (or even thinking it) is out of line! :eek::eek::eek::(

Now I think saying that to you (or even thinking it) is out of line! :eek::eek::eek::(

Yeah...it kind of took the wind out of my sails after working so hard to pull it all off. :(

But, that's okay. I'm thinking of turning any pre-paid meals at restaurants over to them the next time we do this. Then they can get left holding the bag at the end of the evening. LOL. :D

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I think this is nothing that the TB has to be involved in. Probably not even Moderators. If there are expenses that exceed a tolerable amount then of course the organizing member should get reimbursed for that. Should something get a little out of hand regarding these reimbursements, like exceeding a certain point (750$ was mentioned somewhere) then it would be justified by the participants to ask where all this money goes to. However everyone decides alone about the participation when it comes to a DO - so the responsibility is with the individual as well.

Yeah...it kind of took the wind out of my sails after working so hard to pull it all off. :(

But, that's okay. I'm thinking of turning any pre-paid meals at restaurants over to them the next time we do this. Then they can get left holding the bag at the end of the evening. LOL. :D

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I'm sad that this happened to you, William. I certainly wasn't aware of it.

My personal opinion is that I *expect* organizers to make sure they don't lose money. Next time, add the administrative fees and the gratuities right into the registration fee. If others don't like it, they don't have to come.

This reminds me -- I need to get to AUS again soon so I can buy you a beer or four at the Saucer. Thanks again for a fabulous weekend and can't wait to do it again soon.

I think this is nothing that the TB has to be involved in. Probably not even Moderators. If there are expenses that exceed a tolerable amount then of course the organizing member should get reimbursed for that. Should something get a little out of hand regarding these reimbursements, like exceeding a certain point (750$ was mentioned somewhere) then it would be justified by the participants to ask where all this money goes to. However everyone decides alone about the participation when it comes to a DO - so the responsibility is with the individual as well.Everybody's trigger will be different for this but mine is way below $750! ;)