Delta SkyMiles - Upgrade Windows, last minute flights & flying coach when those of lower status in 1st

Just curious as if others have experienced what seems to happen to me more than I would like...namely, being stuck in the back when people of lower status (& most likely ticket class) are up front.

Let me elaborate. I booked a last minute trip on Friday afternoon from MLB to DFW in H class (not a cheap tix BTW). Since it was after the 3 day window clearing the GM's, I am assuming that is how they got up there over me. As a DM w/ an H ticket---I thought that only other DM;s flying in a Y,B, or M would be ahead of me (other than paying 1st class). When I booked it, I phoned and was told that I was 1st on upgrade list---for all the good that did me. Ironically, on my return, I have a U fare that was booked 6 days ahead & the upgrade cleared.

This is not the 1st time this has happened either. I do understand that if I do not purchase 1st class then it is not my right to be there; so...please do not construe this post as such. I am more so looking to see if I happen to always have rotten luck or if this is a pattern with those who travel w/out a lot of notice.

It seems to e that a lot of PM & DM's typically do not have advanced notice when they fly which results in them not only having to purchase a higher class ticket (= more DL revenue) but are (at times) being passed over for an upgrade to a member w/ lower status---doesn't seem like a "best in class" initiative. It seems that if Delta is truly going to place a high value on PM & DM's then they would clear DM/PM at the current window and change their policy on cleaing GM to 1 day prior to the flight--SM could be cleared at the gate.

Now, I realize that some might lynch me for this posting...but, I am in 35E at the time and not feeling the DL love :-(

That's the way it works...Sorry.
The only way to overcome this is for DL to not give out any upgrades in advance (including to you, the DM).
No way to get around it...

As a PM who usually buys tickets well ahead of time, I have no problem with the current system.

I think a better way to look at this:
As a DM w/ an H ticket---I thought that only other DM;s flying in a Y,B, or M would be ahead of me (other than paying 1st class).

is:
As a DM w/ an H ticket, noone other than DMs on Y,B,M, and PM,GM and FO on Y (forgot about these in your OP) will be upgraded before you, ONCE YOU ARE ON THE LIST (i.e. have purchased your ticket).

Either there are complaints that one can't get a F seat close to departure no matter how much money is spent, or there are complaints that DL holds back too many upgrade seats. It's a fine balance that I assume DL adjusts all the time. They have no desire to forgo the extra revenue. If I was going to spend a bunch on a last minute ticket I would sure try to avoid the flight/airline where there is no chance of an upgrade.

If I was going to spend a bunch on a last minute ticket I would sure try to avoid the flight/airline where there is no chance of an upgrade.

Wouldn't that be pretty much all domestic airlines with complementary upgrades? I believe they all have upgrade windows based on status and a high-tier elite would be in a similiar situation as the OP on any airline.

I can understand your frustration, but please spare us the DYKWIA Diamond attitude. Just because one has lower status does not mean they are not entitled to any benefits, nor does it necessarily mean they purchased a lower fare class than you. That's how the system works. If you don't like it, spring for the F ticket or opt for another flight with more F seats available. If you want to improve the DM tier, ask for NEW benefits instead of asking that everybody else lose theirs.

LOL, for a moment there the nerd in me read your title as upgrading Windows... as in Microsoft Windows. ;)

I can understand your frustration, but please spare us the DYKWIA Diamond attitude. Just because one has lower status does not mean they are not entitled to any benefits, nor does it necessarily mean they purchased a lower fare class than you. That's how the system works. If you don't like it, spring for the F ticket or opt for another flight with more F seats available. If you want to improve the DM tier, ask for NEW benefits instead of asking that everybody else lose theirs.

+1^

I am perfectly happy with my Plat upgrades (often on LUT fares) clearing 6 days ahead of departure.

As I have stated before, I am pretty discriminating about my flight times and routings in order to maximize my UG probabilities... and it is not unusual for me to see empty seats in FC on my flights (but, then, I avoid ATL like the plague).

The only way to overcome this is for DL to not give out any upgrades in advance (including to you, the DM).


I'd be perfectly fine with this being the case. If you want to confirm the upgrade in advance, use miles or a SWU. Otherwise, you'll clear at the gate. I'd have no issues with this set-up.

When I was FO and got an upgrade from JFK to LAX last year I paid 198 round trip for the ticket, the smuck next to me paid to be in first. You should of seen him turn red.

Does Jetblue still put the price you paid on your ticket?

I am sure if delta did taht people would have heart attacks in first.

If I was going to spend a bunch on a last minute ticket I would sure try to avoid the flight/airline where there is no chance of an upgrade.
Wouldn't that be pretty much all domestic airlines with complementary upgrades? I believe they all have upgrade windows based on status and a high-tier elite would be in a similiar situation as the OP on any airline.
I meant that if the upgrade was important to you you'd find another flight or airline that had more F availability around the time you wanted to fly (assuming you had status elsewhere).

I'd be perfectly fine with this being the case. If you want to confirm the upgrade in advance, use miles or a SWU. Otherwise, you'll clear at the gate. I'd have no issues with this set-up.

Some do, and some don't. I can see both sides of the argument, but as someone who normally buys tickets > 6 days ahead of time, I like the system as is. For one, it protects me from losing my seat to DMs who SDC and to last minute purchases (who end up buying high fares anyway...).

Some do, and some don't. I can see both sides of the argument, but as someone who normally buys tickets > 6 days ahead of time, I like the system as is. For one, it protects me from losing my seat to DMs who SDC and to last minute purchases (who end up buying high fares anyway...).

I suspect, while this is certainly significant to the individual who experiences the problem, that this is not a widespread issue.

If there were enough elites willing to pay for high priced last minute tickets, DL's RM would pick up on this and hold more FC seats back, limiting the advanced UG opportunities.

I have to anticipate that they do some pretty serious data mining to pick up such trends and respond accordingly.

I suspect, while this is certainly significant to the individual who experiences the problem, that this is not a widespread issue.

If there were enough elites willing to pay for high priced last minute tickets, DL's RM would pick up on this and hold more FC seats back, limiting the advanced UG opportunities.

I have to anticipate that they do some pretty serious data mining to pick up such trends and respond accordingly.

Totally agree...And generally I believe that they err on the side of overdoing it (e.g. JFK-LAX/SFO routes), rather than the opposite.

On a related note, I just got my "upgrade confirmed" e-mail for this Friday's SFO-DTW redeye...so for all DMs buying last minute tickets on that flight, I apologize. Given that 14/16 seats are still open after DM/PM window, I'm assuming there aren't many people too concerned :D.

I like the upgrade windows as they are; I need special meals, so being cleared ahead of time lets me request them for flights that have a meal service in F. If I could only do battlefield upgrades, I'd pretty much never get to eat on board. In general, I think DL strikes a decent balance between releasing some V inventory early (to allow early upgrades) and holding some back for battlefield UGs (allowing late purchasers and SDCers to get upgrades, too).

I like the upgrade windows as they are; I need special meals, so being cleared ahead of time lets me request them for flights that have a meal service in F. If I could only do battlefield upgrades, I'd pretty much never get to eat on board. In general, I think DL strikes a decent balance between releasing some V inventory early (to allow early upgrades) and holding some back for battlefield UGs (allowing late purchasers and SDCers to get upgrades, too).

+1, with the exception that some JFK-SFO/LAX flights could be a little more lenient.

It seems that if Delta is truly going to place a high value on PM & DM's then they would clear DM/PM at the current window and change their policy on cleaing GM to 1 day prior to the flight--SM could be cleared at the gate.
FOs are already upset at the perceived loss of benefits due to SkyPriority. Shrinking their upgrade window would NOT be well received. :td:

Totally agree...And generally I believe that they err on the side of overdoing it (e.g. JFK-LAX/SFO routes), rather than the opposite.
They do it that way to keep upgraded pax out of the lounge. :(

I've noticed this situation a lot. Seems to happen more often during the Holidays as well (even with an advance purchase on my part). I'm speculating that a cause of this is folks snatching FC seats using full mileage awards who also happen to be SM's and GM's?

-A

They do it that way to keep upgraded pax out of the lounge. :(

As I've mentioned earlier, I don't think that's the case. If true, then I don't know why they don't do it on all of the other transcon routes that are granted lounge access for F:

Transcontinental First Class, BusinessElite, or Full Y-Class Passenger Same day travel on a nonstop Delta flight between: JFK to/from Denver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Portland, Phoenix, San Diego, Seattle, and San Francisco.

I've noticed this situation a lot. Seems to happen more often during the Holidays as well (even with an advance purchase on my part). I'm speculating that a cause of this is folks snatching FC seats using full mileage awards who also happen to be SM's and GM's?

-A


Not sure this is the case. Booked JFK-LAX rt last night. Was going to book K to guarantee mileage upgrade, but was informed there was no Z availability on ANY JFK-LAX flights that day (according to seatmap, only two J seats had been assigned on at least two of the flights).

I highly doubt it has anything to do with SkyClub crowding or lots of mileage/SWU upgrades. They just want to keeps seats open to sell on a high-rev premium business route.

They do it that way to keep upgraded pax out of the lounge. :(

Remember that all DMs have SC memberships and all AmEx Delta Reserve cardholders have lounge access automaticlally. I would guess that a large fraction (not sure how many, but presumably declining) of PMs have purchased SC memberships, so that the number getting in because they've already been upgraded would still be pretty small and the cost of the additional SC use would be very small given the current offerings.

Just curious as if others have experienced what seems to happen to me more than I would like...namely, being stuck in the back when people of lower status (& most likely ticket class) are up front.

-I thought that only other DM;s flying in a Y,B, or M would be ahead of me (other than paying 1st class).

Not true, any PM,GM, FO flying in a Y fare would still trump DM with an H fare like yours.

Remember that all DMs have SC memberships and all AmEx Delta Reserve cardholders have lounge access automaticlally. I would guess that a large fraction (not sure how many, but presumably declining) of PMs have purchased SC memberships, so that the number getting in because they've already been upgraded would still be pretty small and the cost of the additional SC use would be very small given the current offerings.

Don't forget to add all Amex Plat/Blk cardholders into the mix.

They do it that way to keep upgraded pax out of the lounge. :(

Just this morning they ran the UG list with plenty of time for me to make a SC visit.

LOL, for a moment there the nerd in me read your title as upgrading Windows... as in Microsoft Windows. ;)

You're not too far off-topic: DL is hoping to upgrade from Win 3.11 to Win 95 sometime between now and 2011. Separate thread, though.

[QUOTE=wineandtravel;14009433]Just curious as if others have experienced what seems to happen to me more than I would like...namely, being stuck in the back when people of lower status (& most likely ticket class) are up front.
[QUOTE]

Definitely an issue that I have experienced. I would urge you to contact DL and suggest that more F upgrades get reserved to 1 or maybe 3 day window if you cotninue to experience. Personally I prefer the JFK-LAX/SFO system in which almost no upgrades appear to clear until the day of. I have no problem with Y-ups or anything like that, but I do not think there is much business sense in upgrading a GM on a LUT when they have got PMs or DMs for instance buying HKs not getting upgrades. Delta seems to have some pretty complicated algorithm that helps them determine how many seats to reserve (it does not seem to be directly correlated with simply flight distance for instance) - I am sure they try to balance the need to have a system which can claim to have advance upgrades for several groups of fliers with need to reward highest revenue passengers. The question that this thread should really be focused on is whether the algorithm is working well; unfortunately, we can't answer that without more data.

Having said that, after some initial upgrade failures at the beginning of the year, I probably have not missed an upgrade in my last 12 segments with one notable exception (GA who "couldn't" put me on upgrade list despite SMS statements to contrary - story for another time). So hopefully such events are a rarity for you going forward.

Just this morning they ran the UG list with plenty of time for me to make a SC visit.
Maybe I've been excessively skeptical; it's good to know there's at least a chance.

Just curious as if others have experienced what seems to happen to me more than I would like...namely, being stuck in the back when people of lower status (& most likely ticket class) are up front.

Let me elaborate. I booked a last minute trip on Friday afternoon from MLB to DFW in H class (not a cheap tix BTW). Since it was after the 3 day window clearing the GM's, I am assuming that is how they got up there over me. As a DM w/ an H ticket---I thought that only other DM;s flying in a Y,B, or M would be ahead of me (other than paying 1st class). When I booked it, I phoned and was told that I was 1st on upgrade list---for all the good that did me. Ironically, on my return, I have a U fare that was booked 6 days ahead & the upgrade cleared.

This is not the 1st time this has happened either. I do understand that if I do not purchase 1st class then it is not my right to be there; so...please do not construe this post as such. I am more so looking to see if I happen to always have rotten luck or if this is a pattern with those who travel w/out a lot of notice.

It seems to e that a lot of PM & DM's typically do not have advanced notice when they fly which results in them not only having to purchase a higher class ticket (= more DL revenue) but are (at times) being passed over for an upgrade to a member w/ lower status---doesn't seem like a "best in class" initiative. It seems that if Delta is truly going to place a high value on PM & DM's then they would clear DM/PM at the current window and change their policy on cleaing GM to 1 day prior to the flight--SM could be cleared at the gate.

Now, I realize that some might lynch me for this posting...but, I am in 35E at the time and not feeling the DL love :-(
I get why you would be upset especially if you somehow knew you were paying more for your ticket and that lower tier/lower fare class pax are sitting in first while you're relegated to coach. However, maybe someone brought this up already, I imagine Delta's program is designed to reward frequent travelers who both pay more for tickets & plan ahead (given that tickets booked in advance allow the airline to ensure they have the right aircraft for the route) just like the advanced-purchase price windows are designed to reward that behavior for all travelers.