Midwest Airlines Midwest Miles (Pre-Alignment) - New to new YX: what to expect

Hello fellow FTers. I have been a loooong-time lurker but this is my first time as a poster. I really enjoy this site (my girlfriend, not so much) and the insight its given me over the last several years. I have searched the board and have not quite gotten what I wanted. I am looking for the overall impression I am likely to have on a DCA to MKE to LAX to MCI to DCA routing. The MKE to LAX is on the A319 and I've paid for the stretch seats. The E190 flies from LAX to MCI and I've paid for stretch seating that that, too. Those who have flown those routes, I would love to hear your impressions: are the stretch seats worth it (I'm 6'1)? How is the IFE? How are the BOB options? Sure they look good online, but how do they taste and are they worth the money? I have 2 hours to kill at MKE; is a day pass to the BCC worth it? How are the FAs? That last one is general question, I know, but with all of the changes and tumult of late, I thought I'd still put it out there. As this is my first itinerary with YX, I don't want to go in blind. Any insight would be great.

Thanks,^
Rob

Welcome to FlyerTalk, robjorg. I will leave specific answers to those that fly YX more regularly. But as someone who flies several airlines irregularly, I will say that I have overall been very pleased with my YX experiences.

Welcome to the YX board of FT!

are the stretch seats worth it (I'm 6'1)?

I'm 6'3" and find the pitch in the regular section on the E190/E170's to be decent, and from what I've overwhelmingly heard, the 319 is similar. Is it worth it? That's kind a judgement call. The lowered fee ($25) make the upgrade much more viable to me, especially if it's coming out of my own pocket.

Note that premium section on most E190 YX flights has the wider 2x1 seating, but on some E190 the strech seating is conventional width., like on the A319. It seems that's the direction the Stretch seating is going on all aircraft (we'll probably know more next week!) but for the time being you may have the wider seats on the E190.

1)How are the BOB options? Sure they look good online, but how do they taste and are they worth the money?

I usually buy onboard and have generally been pleased. The biggest problem is the limited availability, although if you're sitting up front you'll have a much better chance. Beyond the regular buy onboard, they do usually have the other non-perishable snack items to buy. My suggestion is that if you're interested, plan on BOB but...be aware it's possible they could be sold out. If you're absolutely counting on a meal, you could be disappointed.

Also note that the cookies are not on the early or mid-morning departure. If you're on the early morning westbound there are probably no cookies, but you'll get them when you head back east.

I have 2 hours to kill at MKE; is a day pass to the BCC worth it?

One of the advantages of the BCC day pass is that you get wifi, and wifi is NOT free in Milwaukee. I tend not to use it, even when I have a lot of time to kill in MKE due to a delay (like yesterday) because I'm an airline geek who prefers to walk around and observe what's going on.

Alternately, you could sit down for a pretty nice meal at the Nona Bartalotta restaurant. Or on the other side of security is a cool, large used booked store and an interesting little commercial aviation museum the Mitchell Gallery of Flight. Security at the D concourse (where Midwest is) after about 7:00am is rarely more than 10 minutes.

How are the FAs? That last one is general question, I know, but with all of the changes and tumult of late, I thought I'd still put it out there.

Quite a subjective question! There have been a few clunker experiences, but no more or less than in the "old" days of Midwest. For the most part my experiences have been positive, and a few of the best experiences I have ever had on YX have been from the "new" F/A.

Hope you have a good trip!

How is the IFE?

I really enjoy the direcTV available on the A319, as an MME I got it for free, so not sure what your price-point is, but I want to say it is $6 or $7 for the entire flight and you have a choice between 20 or 30 channels of live television or it is $4 or $5 to purchase a movie from a list of 5 or 6. If you are a reader or like to sleep it may not be for you, but MKE to LAX is relatively long flight and if it was me I would most certainly go with the direcTV.

We will know more next week (hopefully) as to what they are going to do with IFE and Wi-Fi on the entire Midwest/Frontier fleet, but as of now nothing is available on the E190's or E170's...so you will have to make do with a newspaper or magazine.

I can do my best to help you out, because I tend to fly on Midwest and Frontier for obvious reasons. However, caution my opinions may be a little biased.


Also note that the cookies are not on the early or mid-morning departure. If you're on the early morning westbound there are probably no cookies, but you'll get them when you head back east.


Your best chance to get a cookie is on a flight that is scheduled to take off after 10 AM. I believe this is the policy that employees follow when loading flights for a cookie service. Sometimes I'm a little sad when I see both of my flights are in early morning or the afternoon flight is Frontier because I won't have my cookie snack. If you ever get the chance to talk to people that work with me you will find out that I live off the cookie.

How is the IFE?

The IFE is sweet and a good way to make the time fly. Just hope that you're flying during a time that there is something actually on. I spent one flight flipping through the channels the whole time, because I couldn't find anything good. It was during the time that all those Lawyer shows were on and of course all the prime channels compete for that audience at the same time and there was nothing on the other channels.

I have 2 hours to kill at MKE; is a day pass to the BCC worth it?

Don't know if its worth it because I've never really used it, but I hear that people thinks its a pretty descent club especially being in Milwaukee. Hmmm..there's something laying around on our website that may help you out, surprised no one from flyertalk caught it. I guess I will spring it first. Below is a link to the BCC virtual tour, click the button.

http://www.midwestairlines.com/ProgramsAndServices/BestCareClub.aspx


I'm 6'3" and find the pitch in the regular section on the E190/E170's to be decent, and from what I've overwhelmingly heard, the 319 is similar. Is it worth it? That's kind a judgement call. The lowered fee ($25) make the upgrade much more viable to me, especially if it's coming out of my own pocket.


I'm starting to get the feeling that the majority of the people on FlyerTalk are over the 6 foot height, I myself being at 6'3". I can't talk about the price, because the gate agent puts me where ever there is an open seat, I can talk about the comfort. I'm usually comfortable in the regular pitch seating, only once have I felt uncomfortable with a little restless leg. The stretch seating is nice for the little extra room that you get. The 319 and E90 feel the same but the extra space is more noticeable visually on the E90.

Also the E70 is going to be upgraded to stretch seating in the future.

Hope this helps, enjoy your flights!

Don't know if its worth it because I've never really used it, but I hear that people thinks its a pretty descent club especially being in Milwaukee. Hmmm..there's something laying around on our website that may help you out, surprised no one from flyertalk caught it. I guess I will spring it first. Below is a link to the BCC virtual tour, click the button.

http://www.midwestairlines.com/ProgramsAndServices/BestCareClub.aspx

You did sneek this one past us, at least me. Nice job. ^

The "stretch" is worth the $25 each way on the YX E190 for a longer flight to say - LAX or SFO - imho. The pitch is 38" which is close to most domestic FC on other carriers. Of course, I am only medium height and slim build so -- seems roomy to me. I think the E190 is a generally comfy plane. The BOB -- mediocre at best. I just did the "breakfast" meal last week to SFO - yogurt, fruit and a muffin. Very small portions - a few bites and it's gone . . . so don't expect much. Of course, have been flying YX since they started and still remember the glory days of complimentary -- Champange, Mimosas, Wine and wonderful meals served on china with linens. . . all that's left is the chocolate chip cookies. lol.

Folks,

Thanks for your well-informed responses. I expected nothing less from this awesome forum! I am looking forward to my first YX/F9 flights.
Safe travels, everyone!

I concur with the suggestions about Nonna Bartolotta's Restaurant, which is on the D Concourse (Midwest), as well as the Renaissance Book Shop.

The book shop has been written up in national publications and is a favorite among travelers and flight crews, alike.

The restaurant is quite good and offers sit-down service, as well as carry-out. So, if you think that you may not be satisfied by the BOB service, you can always pick up your own.

There is a thread on food options, that you might want to look at:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/midwest-airlines-midwest-miles/869894-mkes-concourse-d-better-food-option.html

Here is a link for an interactive map of the airport, for your reference:

http://www.mitchellairport.com/mia_map01.html

Enjoy the trip, and, if you have time, feel free to give us a report with your own impressions.

If you fly "Midwest Airlines" you will fly an airline that has fired 3,000 local employees. The airline you will fly will have the most inexperienced pilots and mechanics in the U.S. You will pay to fly "Midwest Airlines" and fly on a regional jet or a cramped LCC carrier. I would suggest Southwest or AirTran they have career employees not interns. You would have enjoyed the real Midwest Airline the imposter is a cheap poser.

If you fly "Midwest Airlines" you will fly an airline that has fired 3,000 local employees. The airline you will fly will have the most inexperienced pilots and mechanics in the U.S. You will pay to fly "Midwest Airlines" and fly on a regional jet or a cramped LCC carrier. I would suggest Southwest or AirTran they have career employees not interns. You would have enjoyed the real Midwest Airline the imposter is a cheap poser.

You forgot to mention their notorious ties to the El Nino phenomenon, the failed Bay of Pigs invasion, and of course the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln.

You forgot to mention their notorious ties to the El Nino phenomenon, the failed Bay of Pigs invasion, and of course the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln.

LOL!

I hate to rain on Mostly Air's parade, but it is not much different than any other LCC. The only difference is the cookie.

My mom just landed in PHL on YX1448 (Emb-145, MKE-PHL, 8 Apr) on what is her last YX/RAH trip. She cashed in her remaining FF miles, cut up her Midwest Miles credit card, and has moved to UA and the Star Alliance. Everything was on time, despite the bad weather. As for inflight service, she said the FA did one pass through the cabin, then sat in row one, ate cookies and drank coffee. The FA did not do a second service.

Sounds like the "best care in the air" to me. Especially for the FA.

YX/YX* is just another regional airline with 99-seat jets. I'm glad the YX name is going away. RAH has only hurt the service reputation. YX was a great airline. The outstanding customer service culture died when the last of the legacy employees were fuloughed in October.

If you fly "Midwest Airlines" you will fly an airline that has fired 3,000 local employees. The airline you will fly will have the most inexperienced pilots and mechanics in the U.S. You will pay to fly "Midwest Airlines" and fly on a regional jet or a cramped LCC carrier. I would suggest Southwest or AirTran they have career employees not interns. You would have enjoyed the real Midwest Airline the imposter is a cheap poser.

I was wondering when the flame throwers would come out...good to see they are still around...I imagine that the reason he is flying Midwest from DCA to LAX is because it was the best fare he found for the travel dates that he had...And he already told us what planes he is going to be on and they are by no means "regional jet or cramped LCC" planes (A319, E190 and E170), which all as comfortable as the 737 Airtran flies. If he hasnt flown Midwest before, he doesnt know what it was like 10 years ago or even 1 year ago...what's the point to this post?

If you fly "Midwest Airlines" you will fly an airline that has fired 3,000 local employees. The airline you will fly will have the most inexperienced pilots and mechanics in the U.S. You will pay to fly "Midwest Airlines" and fly on a regional jet or a cramped LCC carrier. I would suggest Southwest or AirTran they have career employees not interns. You would have enjoyed the real Midwest Airline the imposter is a cheap poser.



+1 ............. I have to agree. Midwest is not the same company with erj145 to PHL, EWR, ... Midwest is gone and the replacements are flying.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/

If you fly "Midwest Airlines" you will fly an airline that has fired 3,000 local employees. The airline you will fly will have the most inexperienced pilots and mechanics in the U.S. You will pay to fly "Midwest Airlines" and fly on a regional jet or a cramped LCC carrier. I would suggest Southwest or AirTran they have career employees not interns. You would have enjoyed the real Midwest Airline the imposter is a cheap poser.

I tried to get my iPhone camera out, but was not fast enough, yesterday in OMA. Pilot and Co get off a Republic ERJ, they looked 50 and 55 respectively. Now if Straight talker would change his tune to "old and over the hill" it would have a little more cred with me. I am missing the interns he talks about! Even got a warm cookie on the return. :)

+1 ............. I have to agree. Midwest is not the same company with erj145 to PHL, EWR, ... Midwest is gone and the replacements are flying.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/

-1

And more comfortable airline to OMA, TPA, LAS and PHX with 319s, 170, 190's.

+1 ............. I have to agree. Midwest is not the same company with erj145 to PHL, EWR, ... Midwest is gone and the replacements are flying.




You must have a short memory regarding the "old" Midwest.

I'd say the E145 is a huge step-up from the turbo props Midwest use to fly alongside the DC9s on certain routes. It's probably comparable to the FRJ 328s that Midwest flew periodically to EWR, PHL, BWI, DCA, etc.

If memory serves me correctly, some of those SkyWay pilots were pretty young as well.

She cashed in her remaining FF miles, cut up her Midwest Miles credit card, and has moved to UA and the Star Alliance. Everything was on time, despite the bad weather. As for inflight service, she said the FA did one pass through the cabin, then sat in row one, ate cookies and drank coffee. The FA did not do a second service.

Sounds like the "best care in the air" to me. Especially for the FA.



I hope you told your mom she can expect the same level of service or worse on United and the multiple contract carriers (including Republic) they use for a majority of their operations. Trust me, I log at least 100,000 + miles on United each year. Service standards range from fantastic to downright deplorable.

I was wondering when the flame throwers would come out...good to see they are still around...I imagine that the reason he is flying Midwest from DCA to LAX is because it was the best fare he found for the travel dates that he had...And he already told us what planes he is going to be on and they are by no means "regional jet or cramped LCC" planes (A319, E190 and E170), which all as comfortable as the 737 Airtran flies. If he hasnt flown Midwest before, he doesnt know what it was like 10 years ago or even 1 year ago...what's the point to this post?

Thanks for speaking for the OP.

I was wondering when the cheerleaders would come out.

I hope you told your mom she can expect the same level of service or worse on United and the multiple contract carriers (including Republic) they use for a majority of their operations. Trust me, I log at least 100,000 + miles on United each year. Service standards range from fantastic to downright deplorable.

Wow. She's never flown United before. I'll be sure to tell her to cut up that card too.:rolleyes:

Wow. She's never flown United before. I'll be sure to tell her to cut up that card too.:rolleyes:

Your mom can do whatever she wants.

You implied she was switching carriers in part due to the lower service standards she experienced on her recent Republic flight to PHL and what has happened to Midwest is general over the last few years. If that's the case, she might be in for a rude awakening when flying United. Imagine if she gets on an aircraft operated by Republic.

The die hard Midwest haters on this board think the grass in greener at every other airline. It's not.

I tried to get my iPhone camera out, but was not fast enough, yesterday in OMA. Pilot and Co get off a Republic ERJ, they looked 50 and 55 respectively. Now if Straight talker would change his tune to "old and over the hill" it would have a little more cred with me. I am missing the interns he talks about! Even got a warm cookie on the return. :)



I feel for that 55 year old First Officer. How do you save for retirement making 24K per year with pension plan?

That Captain and First Officer contributed 3-4 dollars (WOW!!!) to help reduce your fare verses the real Midwest pilots. Or was that money put toward paying Rev. BB his two million in compensation plus stock options.

Happy your happy.

Your mom can do whatever she wants.

You implied she was switching carriers in part due to the lower service standards she experienced on her recent Republic flight to PHL and what has happened to Midwest is general over the last few years. If that's the case, she might be in for a rude awakening when flying United. Imagine if she gets on an aircraft operated by Republic.

The die hard Midwest haters on this board think the grass in greener at every other airline. It's not.

She is switching due to service. She's likes UAL, they have a better FF program, she's unhappy with the way Republic is handling the merger, so she's switching.

Having flown YX since 1987, a DL silver, 27 countries under my belt, degrees is business, and as a professional pilot, there are many reasons I think the grass is "brown" right now on the YX side of the fence.

RAH makes FL look good.

I feel for that 55 year old First Officer. How do you save for retirement making 24K per year with pension plan?

That Captain and First Officer contributed 3-4 dollars (WOW!!!) to help reduce your fare verses the real Midwest pilots. Or was that money put toward paying Rev. BB his two million in compensation plus stock options.

Happy your happy.

Ecstatic, actually. Looked like happy campers to me.

If you fly "Midwest Airlines" you will fly an airline that has fired 3,000 local employees. The airline you will fly will have the most inexperienced pilots and mechanics in the U.S. You will pay to fly "Midwest Airlines" and fly on a regional jet or a cramped LCC carrier. I would suggest Southwest or AirTran they have career employees not interns. You would have enjoyed the real Midwest Airline the imposter is a cheap poser.

I tried 'reporting' this post. But it seems that lying is not a reportable offense on FT.

I was wondering when the cheerleaders would come out.

Without question FT is a VERY VERY small sample of the air traveling public. However, have you ever wondered why the 'flame throwers' here are almost exclusively former employees that feel that were unfairly terminated and the cheerleaders are almost exclusively the consuming public?

As an aside, on most other boards on FT, the people who fly the airlines have many complaints. Generally, on this board, the people who fly the airline are fairly content with that airline.

She is switching due to service. She's likes UAL, they have a better FF program, she's unhappy with the way Republic is handling the merger, so she's switching.
RAH makes FL look good.

Wait until she gets crammed into one of the CRJ 200's Skywest operates for United. The most uncomfortable plane in the sky.

She may reconsider.

Without question FT is a VERY VERY small sample of the air traveling public. However, have you ever wondered why the 'flame throwers' here are almost exclusively former employees that feel that were unfairly terminated and the cheerleaders are almost exclusively the consuming public?

As an aside, on most other boards on FT, the people who fly the airlines have many complaints. Generally, on this board, the people who fly the airline are fairly content with that airline.

I count 6-9 cheerleading consumers on this forum. Nowhere near the number to significantly predict the feelings towards Midwest among the entire population. FT also attracts airline fanatics, also not a good smaple of the population. However, have you read the JSOnline? MKE Business Journal? They are probably better representations of how the people of MKE feel about the new YX. That, and FL's expanding market share.

Wait until she gets crammed into one of the CRJ 200's Skywest operates for United. The most uncomfortable plane in the sky.

She may reconsider.

Agreed. The -700 isn't much better.

I count 6-9 cheerleading consumers on this forum. Nowhere near the number to significantly predict the feelings towards Midwest among the entire population. FT also attracts airline fanatics, also not a good smaple of the population. However, have you read the JSOnline? MKE Business Journal? They are probably better representations of how the people of MKE feel about the new YX. That, and FL's expanding market share.

How about looking at load factor?

It doesn't tell us much about profitability, but in MKE Midwest continues to do a good job filling seats despite all of the added competition and bad press in recent years. As I pointed out in another thread, Midwest had its best March ever (according to internal communications, advance bookings are very strong through summer).

Despite what some people claim, Midwest still has a lot of drawing power (corporate contracts, frequent flier accounts, better schedule, competitive fares, etc.).

This is a far more accurate measure on how the airline is filling seats vs. reading comments on the Journal Sentinel or Business Journal websites (which, by the way, seem to be dominated by ex-Midwest employees).

As for service, I personally have not had any bad experiences on Republic operated flights in a long time. The crews have been good, in-flight service on par with what most legacy crews provided, and flights actually operate on time for a change. The E135/145 jets are better than the awful CRJ. All of the E170s/E190s continue have 2x2 seating (although not as wide as Signature). Even the Airbus jets are a step-up from the Saver MD80s with Live TV and better overall reliability. While there is still a lot of animosity in some quarters over what happened to the legacy pilots/flight attendants, it seems to me that Republic hasn't been doing such a bad job of managing the integration from a customer perspective. Can things still be improved? Sure. I suspect all of that is being worked on and we'll have more clarity next week on what the future holds.

However, have you read the JSOnline? MKE Business Journal? They are probably better representations of how the people of MKE feel about the new YX.

Why do you think those comments are not primarily former employees with an ax to grind? The general traveling public doesn't call Hoeksema "Timmy", nor use terms like CASM, nor name the union rep, nor refer to the telephone reservations team as "res", etc. etc. But many posts in those forums, including lots of the most vitriolic ones, have terms like these which pretty clearly suggest who is writing them. Also, especially on JS, certain posts look suspiciously like others, suggesting a small number of people are responsible for a large number of posts. And...I've been told more than once although I think the original source is the same...that there are a couple of AirTran MKE employees who make a point of trashing Midwest in forums on JSOnline and the Business Journel to stir the pot.

Undoubtedly many frequent travelers miss the luxuries of the old Midwest. But the high level of animosity on anonymous online forums is simply not representative of the general travling public.

That, and FL's expanding market share

Midwest+Frontier served more than 95,000 additional customers in Milwaukee in the first two months of this year compared to the same period last year. That's and increase of over 25%, and is nearly as many new customers as Southwest served here in total. Does this sound like a company people are avoiding?

Obviously the devil is in the details, and AirTran's passenger counts increased even more. But nobody's claiming people are running away from AirTran.

That Captain and First Officer contributed 3-4 dollars (WOW!!!) to help reduce your fare verses the real Midwest pilots.

If I recall correctly, this $3-$4 figure was communicated by the union, and was based on the 143-seat M80 cost per available seat mile on MKE-MCO. If you assume 80% load factor, it's really $3.75 - $5 per passenger...the $3 - $4 figure is per seat.

So last month the branded Republic operation carried 1,252,244 passengers. That $3.75 - $5 per passenger comes to between $4.7m and $6.3m. Spread that out over 12 months and the impact of this labor cost difference comes in between $56.4 million on the low end and $75.2 million on the high end.

Those are huge numbers for an airline the size of the branded F9/YX. Even if you just apply it to the YX-only passenger numbers it's tens of millions per year. And that's only the pilot wage cost savings...not the inflight cost savings from the other organized labor group.

Of course that is taking some small information and extrapolating it way out, but trying to reduce the wage difference down to a few dollars per passenger is essentially the same thing trying to minimize large numbers. And if a few dollars per passenger seems like chicken feed, note that for the second half of 2009, AirTran's net income per passenger was $1.66.

So because the difference in wages is in fact so large, does that necessarily justify the size of the cut? Not necessarily...that's a much more involved discussion. But to suggest that the pilot wage impass, subsequent stalemate and ultimate layoffs were over peanuts is just not true.

If I recall correctly, this $3-$4 figure was communicated by the union, and was based on the 143-seat M80 cost per available seat mile on MKE-MCO. If you assume 80% load factor, it's really $3.75 - $5 per passenger...the $3 - $4 figure is per seat.

So last month the branded Republic operation carried 1,252,244 passengers. That $3.75 - $5 per passenger comes to between $4.7m and $6.3m. Spread that out over 12 months and the impact of this labor cost difference comes in between $56.4 million on the low end and $75.2 million on the high end.

Those are huge numbers for an airline the size of the branded F9/YX. Even if you just apply it to the YX-only passenger numbers it's tens of millions per year. And that's only the pilot wage cost savings...not the inflight cost savings from the other organized labor group.

Of course that is taking some small information and extrapolating it way out, but trying to reduce the wage difference down to a few dollars per passenger is essentially the same thing trying to minimize large numbers. And if a few dollars per passenger seems like chicken feed, note that for the second half of 2009, AirTran's net income per passenger was $1.66.

So because the difference in wages is in fact so large, does that necessarily justify the size of the cut? Not necessarily...that's a much more involved discussion. But to suggest that the pilot wage impass, subsequent stalemate and ultimate layoffs were over peanuts is just not true.



Just think how much Southwest and Airtran could be making if they cut pilot, flight attendant, CSR and maintenance wages to Republic levels... WOW!

Plus it leaves more money for the CEOs.

I mean, why shouldn't they benefit from all the smart political moves they made in becoming a CEO. I think it's called... getting to the top on the backs of your employees.

I think the baggage fee and this idea can make more money.....

http://www.examiner.com/x-29076-SF-World-Travel-Examiner~y2010m4d7-Ryanair-going-ahead-with-plans-to-charge-passengers-to-use-the-restroom

Just think how much Southwest and Airtran could be making if they cut pilot, flight attendant, CSR and maintenance wages to Republic levels... WOW!

Plus it leaves more money for the CEOs.

I mean, why shouldn't they benefit from all the smart political moves they made in becoming a CEO. I think it's called... getting to the top on the backs of your employees.

I think the baggage fee and this idea can make more money.....

http://www.examiner.com/x-29076-SF-World-Travel-Examiner~y2010m4d7-Ryanair-going-ahead-with-plans-to-charge-passengers-to-use-the-restroom

The OP is not going to notice any of this. Besides, by your logic Republic is raking in the dough and the CEO is getting paid a lot more than Airtran and Southwest's CEO. Frontier pilots make almost the exact same amount as Airtran pilots, sometimes a bit more. It's great you want a communist society where everyone makes the same amount of money, but they don't work. Clearly your goal isn't to support employees and help increase their wages, you just want all of them to lose their jobs, which I find sad.

Just think how much Southwest and Airtran could be making if they cut pilot, flight attendant, CSR and maintenance wages to Republic levels... WOW!

Why only go as low as Republic wages? But you're right....there has to be a limit someplace. Where that limit is, well, that could be a far more involved discussion.

The OP is not going to notice any of this. Besides, by your logic Republic is raking in the dough and the CEO is getting paid a lot more than Airtran and Southwest's CEO. Frontier pilots make almost the exact same amount as Airtran pilots, sometimes a bit more. It's great you want a communist society where everyone makes the same amount of money, but they don't work. Clearly your goal isn't to support employees and help increase their wages, you just want all of them to lose their jobs, which I find sad.


Wrong. Tell me how I indicated... "you just want all of them to lose their jobs".

#1 I just think management should pay industry average wage, Republic doesn't. (eg. Original Midwest, Southwest, Frontier, JetBlue, Airtran, ... )

#2 CEO (=employee) pay should be controlled by share-holders verses good old boy clubs.

First, I own Republic stock and would like the company/stock to grow. But why should the top 3-4 managers all be making over a million per year? Why should employee moral be dragged into the gutter?

Wrong. Tell me how I indicated... "you just want all of them to lose their jobs".

#1 I just think management should pay industry average wage, Republic doesn't. (eg. Original Midwest, Southwest, Frontier, JetBlue, Airtran, ... )

#2 CEO (=employee) pay should be controlled by share-holders verses good old boy clubs.

First, I own Republic stock and would like the company/stock to grow. But why should the top 3-4 managers all be making over a million per year? Why should employee moral be dragged into the gutter?

People are willing to work at those wages, therefore the company will pay those wages. When people stop applying for jobs and working in jobs that have low pay then the company will have to increase their wages but until that happens it won't change.
Most people want a chance to grow in their careers, not all companies are willing to give everyone an opportunity so people have to take positions that will allow them the best opportunities that will allow them to grow. Some people have it easy, others have to work harder to follow their career goals. It doesn't make them less of a person to take a low paying position because they can't be hired else where, they just want a chance.

It surprises me that you have stock in Republic with all of your negativity here. As an owner I would write the board of directors and tell them your thoughts. Start a blog for Republic owners to hear your concerns about the company. It is your right as an owner to see that you are able to have the most returns from an investment.

It is your right as an owner to see that you are able to have the most returns from an investment.

It is also your right to sell that stock...from the sounds of it you are no longer employed by Midwest/RAH, therefor you have the ability to rollover whatever retirement funds you had in a 401k or other retirement account (I imagine you would have a tough time getting your hands on your pension and depending on the number of years that you have contributed to the pension it is probably better to leave it than take the lump sum) held by RAH into an IRA where you can manage it on your own...My guess is that you would like to put all of it in Airtran, but my recommendation would be to go in a different direction from the airlines.

People are willing to work at those wages, therefore the company will pay those wages. When people stop applying for jobs and working in jobs that have low pay then the company will have to increase their wages but until that happens it won't change.

Most people want a chance to grow in their careers, not all companies are willing to give everyone an opportunity so people have to take positions that will allow them the best opportunities that will allow them to grow. Some people have it easy, others have to work harder to follow their career goals. It doesn't make them less of a person to take a low paying position because they can't be hired else where, they just want a chance.



Are you telling me that substandard people are being attracted and hired by Republic?

Are you saying Pilots/FA/Mechanics that can't get hired at other airlines are being hired by Republic?


Is that the reason the top management makes 3-4 times the original Midwest management? Is that the reason the employees get paid almost half the wages of the original Midwest employees?

I visit this webboard to share information and opinion on Midwest Airlines or what every we are going to call it.

Are you telling me that substandard people are being attracted and hired by Republic?

Are you saying Pilots/FA/Mechanics that can't get hired at other airlines are being hired by Republic?


Is that the reason the top management makes 3-4 times the original Midwest management? Is that the reason the employees get paid almost half the wages of the original Midwest employees?

I visit this webboard to share information and opinion on Midwest Airlines or what every we are going to call it.

I didn't say substandard people are being hired by Republic. If Pilots/FA/Mechanics want to be paid more than they do, they have the option to leave, which is called At Will employment. They do not have to stay at a company if they don't want to. Its a personal choice. If someone wants to work in aviation and Republic offers them a position, it is up to the individual to accept that position.
The BOD decides pay for upper management. As an owner of the company, if you see something wrong with that it is your responsibility to communicate that to the BOD.

I visit this web board for the same reasons.

#1 I just think management should pay industry average wage, Republic doesn't. (eg. Original Midwest, Southwest, Frontier, JetBlue, Airtran, ... )

#2 CEO (=employee) pay should be controlled by share-holders verses good old boy clubs.

First, I own Republic stock and would like the company/stock to grow. But why should the top 3-4 managers all be making over a million per year? Why should employee moral be dragged into the gutter?

#1 is naive. An airline the size of Republic should pay below average wages. That's why they call it "average" wages. Someone has to be below average to have someone above average. A small airline the size of Republic would pay below average wages.

#2 Are you calling the duly elected BOD of Republic "good old boy(s)?"

If so, I would drop the stock.

Well, ladies and gents, I certainly went to the right place. I was graciously given your perspectives of the subjects into which I inquired. And there was much more on top of that, too. ;) That's FT for ya! What I've gleaned, loud and clear, is that there will be a need for a nearly identical thread in the next few months once the dust begins to settle. To those of you who have been loyal to YX over the years, I wish you the best come tomorrow's big announcement.

Thanks to all who responed. I hope to return the favor some day. :)

Do they still need MCI if they have DEN?

Do they still need MCI if they have DEN?

MCI should survive in markets that serve O&D traffic (LGA, LAX, DCA). Feed and through traffic should be routed through DEN.

Bedford will have to consolidate. Someone (hub/focus city) is going to lose while F9 strengthens its operations. I wouldn't be surprised if, as Bedford said himself, one of the big three airlines in MKE reduces service. I doubt that airline will be FL. Or WN.

Why do you think those comments are not primarily former employees with an ax to grind? The general traveling public doesn't call Hoeksema "Timmy", nor use terms like CASM, nor name the union rep, nor refer to the telephone reservations team as "res", etc. etc. But many posts in those forums, including lots of the most vitriolic ones, have terms like these which pretty clearly suggest who is writing them. Also, especially on JS, certain posts look suspiciously like others, suggesting a small number of people are responsible for a large number of posts. And...I've been told more than once although I think the original source is the same...that there are a couple of AirTran MKE employees who make a point of trashing Midwest in forums on JSOnline and the Business Journel to stir the pot.

With your use of industry lingo and overall jubilation towards YX/F9, can we reasonably assume, then, that you are Bryan Bedford?

Undoubtedly many frequent travelers miss the luxuries of the old Midwest. But the high level of animosity on anonymous online forums is simply not representative of the general traveling public.

However, all positive comments about YX/F9 ARE genuine, right???

How about looking at load factor?

It doesn't tell us much about profitability, but in MKE Midwest continues to do a good job filling seats despite all of the added competition and bad press in recent years. As I pointed out in another thread, Midwest had its best March ever (according to internal communications, advance bookings are very strong through summer).

Load factor is great, but profitability is all that matters. A popular industry tag line is: "You don't shrink to profitability." FL's growing market share tells me they believe they have the staying power to outlast competitors in MKE. Who's going to cash in their chips first? I predict that while the F9 rebranding may continue to attract the low fare crowd, the profit crowd (business) will continue to migrate towards FL.

F9 will have to dominate one hub before they can be successful in others. If they half-a$& both MKE and DEN, they will fail. Better to be strong in one and shed the other, IMO.

Midwest+Frontier served more than 95,000 additional customers in Milwaukee in the first two months of this year compared to the same period last year. That's and increase of over 25%, and is nearly as many new customers as Southwest served here in total. Does this sound like a company people are avoiding?

Obviously the devil is in the details, and AirTran's passenger counts increased even more. But nobody's claiming people are running away from AirTran.

How much of that new traffic is a result of Bedford's efforts to capitalize on the YX reputation (as he stated was his intention)? Word got out, however... YX wasn't what it used to be. Bedford knows he ruined the reputation and wisely discarded the name/branding (save the cookies, which I'm sure will silently fade away in short time).

Also, could traffic have increased because the MKE fare wars lured travelers away from ORD? When someone inevitably reduces service to MKE, numbers will level off as competition decreases and fares rise. I can't believe the current MKE fares are sustainable for much longer. Maybe through the summer... It will be make or break for someone.

MCI should survive in markets that serve O&D traffic (LGA, LAX, DCA). Feed and through traffic should be routed through DEN.

Bedford will have to consolidate. Someone (hub/focus city) is going to lose while F9 strengthens its operations. I wouldn't be surprised if, as Bedford said himself, one of the big three airlines in MKE reduces service. I doubt that airline will be FL. Or WN.

Actually, WN has already reduced its MKE service, so yeah, Bedford was right.

How much of that new traffic is a result of Bedford's efforts to capitalize on the YX reputation (as he stated was his intention)? Word got out, however... YX wasn't what it used to be. Bedford knows he ruined the reputation and wisely discarded the name/branding (save the cookies, which I'm sure will silently fade away in short time).

Midwest was in a tailspin long before Republic was involved.