Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan - ANC Spring 2010 MVPG Breakfast & Lunch March 24

I have been 'accepted' again :p to attend one of the MVPG events tomorrow. If any other FTe'rs are at the breakfast I'll be the one with a laptop taking copious notes, feel free to stop by and say 'hi'. Oh, and feel free to add your own notes as well.

For those interested, here are archives of previous MVPG events in ANC that I attended (and other's notes as well):

Fall 2008 (http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=871436)

Spring 2009 (http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=926330)

Fall 2009 (http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1006097)

Looking foreword to the event in the morning :cool:

Wow, I didn't even know there was one tomorrow. Have fun!

Alright... we have motion on the floor... the AS folks are gravitating to the seats :D - so far we have had some delicious pastries at the Captain Cook.

Rick- thank you for joining us at the MVPG breakfast, an honor for me and our entire team to come here and hear you. All the feedback is circulated thru the company so everyone understands whats on your minds.

Introductions

VP Marketing-
Exciting time since we had a pretty good year in 2009 and off to a pretty good start in 2010. Most dependable for major airlines in the US (ontime). Seems we have some things figured out, to create a dependable product.
Warm & caring service- won JD Power award second year in a row.
Trying to do more an more to create good value for our customers.
Alaska Airlines- the state of Alaska is core to our business.

Mileage Plan-
For years we’ve looked at the program and we saw the value MVPG’s brought to our program. There’s around 35,000 MVPG’s and spend around 7,000 a year. There is a subset that spends 60-80K at AS. They are like George Clooney in Up in the air, and to keep them with AS… 75K on AS, 90K on partners +AS, or 90 segments. Main benefit you get top of the line access to upgrades. Reorganize and put you on top. Should siginifigantly improve getting upgraded. Probably 1,000 or 1,500 people. Since there are so few people flying, it should not be a large impact to benefits. Want to get more buisuness from those who can give us more businuess.

Upgrade process- working closely with Rev Management… hope to explain. If you want to be in F, buy F. If you buy qualifying fare, - try to give to people who buy the qualifying fares first. Lots of upgrades SFO, LAX, long haul flights not enough aircraft yet. It’s a balance. Trying to work with rev mgmt – if you buy qualifying fare there will be 36-24 hrs qualifying fares will be forced into F if there is an avail seat.

Big focus on value and taking care of our folks in Alaska. Working with pricing team, intra-alaska on sale to lower 48 too. Purchase by April 2, travel by June 18.

Delta-
NW & DL merged and formed largest airline in world. Struggling to get NW benefits back. As of the 1st of the year it should print MVPG on the boarding pass to allow you to enter the breezeway and either in 2 or 3. Preferred seating turned on in past 2-3 weeks either via website or when booking by phone. Reciprocial upgrades- they are coming, but coming slowly. Looks like it will be August now. It used to be if you bought on alaskaair.com you would see the link. But other booking channels forced a phone call. After August, we will assume you want to be on the list. You can opt out if you want then.

Airline partners-
All the traction with DL… AA wants to have some biz as well. In the past we have not received much traction since we are not in alliance. Hopefully by the end of the year some of the things we have with DL will be in place with AA.

Signed a contract with Kenmore Air. Largest floatplane operator in US. Great for fishing for those in lower 48… etc

About to finalize agreement with Iceland Air.

Alaskaair.com
Trying to regain our position with technology- first airline ticket sold online, web checkin… doing great things in the cockpit, but what can we do with technology for customers. Have GIS (gate information screens) – now have a mobile website. Blackberry app, windows mobile app, iphone app…

E-Wallet fully functional
Gift certs, unused tickets, BoA companion certs, adjust ticket to lower fare- all goes into mywallet. Second piece that takes affect today is change in reissue to policy starts today. Now based on one-way model. Change fee waived for anyone traveling within the State of Alaska.

Wifi…
Few years ago wanted to be the first carrier with row44 with satellite based wifi. Saw the promising technology to communicate with wireless. Great idea, but installation challenges, issues with FCC, and cost. Ground based solution much easier and cheaper. What price point should we charge? 40% of plane used it when free, if $1 dropped down to 8%. Looked at the market and saw that even though satellite is the way of the future the market does not support it yet. So going with aircell, and should be fleet-wide by the end of the year. 30-40 minute gap when flying over Canada. Does not work over water yet (laughter). Future could be a hybrid land based/satellite solution (like with some cell phones). Does have the ability to cache thousands of gigabytes of data so we could have 100’s of video on demand.

Coke-
Going back with Coke- did not have the acceptance with the market.

Pilot- celebrated 31st anniversary with AS. 13 years on 732. Pilot professional development program, part is technical and part is customer service aspect. Either now or during Q&A, if we could have some input, we could roll this right into the program.

Summer Schedule
Double daily service back to LA
Double daily to ORD
Growing PDX 3x daily
DEN nonstop
SFO nonstop
19 daily flights to SEA
HNL service
OGG didn’t pan out last summer- OGG will be back next fall.
10x flights to Hawaii in winter-
Fantastic fare sale right now

Well, looks like one of my predictions (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alaska-airlines-mileage-plan/1038961-predictions-thread-2010-a.html) is going to be wrong...

- The long awaited AS/DL elite reciprocity will come by June 20, 2010.

Oh, well. :rolleyes:

Might need to do some fine-tuned editing a bit later on... but here's the Q&A session in raw formatting: :D

Q&A
Q: Can’t hear announcement over PA from cockpit.

A: Two independent systems- a couple different microphones on the flight deck. If its inaudible we need to know right away so we can get it in the logbook. FA's help out with this.

Q: Bringing pets to Hawaii- might be a way of doing this without quarantine now
A: We'll look into this

Ewallet- forced to use a travel agency. Had a change and got a $60 credit- but its company $.

Q:Any traction to get partners to price as OW’s?
AWe can’t talk with other partners too much about pricing models.
Awards- working on allowing miles to be redeemed OW. -could be a possible solution to getting OW travel.

Q: Reality check on DL… doesn’t quite work the way it is described. They don’t adjust the zone, had zone 4, and the DL agent does not have a clue.
A: Asking our customers- agents should be up to speed. A year from now we will not tolerate this not working. Every month since we’ve had so much fallout- seating issues, boarding priority, etc. Ticketing Troubleshooting team- SABRE & Travelport – been having monthly meetings with AS & DL groups…

Elite can use breezeway only once your zone is called. Zone 1 is F, and Zone 2 or 3 should have boarding…

Q: My miles posted and were taken away - why?
A: My Trips- get a feed from SABRE and partners. Partners may not be every day- but AS is every day. There was a glitch that sent a file that posted three times. And then was reversed.
Surprised mileage does not post instantly unlike when you use miles… where they are pulled away instantly.
“I don’t see any instance why when I use a ticket, and it took two weeks for the ticket shows up”

Should take 24 hours at most… (consensus was it takes longer from MVPG group)

Q: Can I combine miles from DL and AS?
A: No- but you can use DL miles for AS Saver awards.

Q: Flying to MSP… seems DL is moving activity away from MSP to DL flights… and MSP is a more dependable airport too :D (got a laugh comparing MSP to ORD) - could not book on delta.com flight thru MSP without using multi-city, otherwise connected in SLC (trying to get to MSN)
A: Looked at ANC-MSP… not on the top of the pile... DL won’t abandon MSP… if DL reduced capacity- AS can backfill…

Q: BR open later (perennial question)
A: Tried extending hours several summers ago… it kind of turned into a bar- alcohol bill went into roof but membership did not increase… will consider again.

Also, BR is working on implementing a card swipe system to help log who is using when.

Q: Noise Caneceling Headphones & Kindle- why can't we use below 10,000 feet?
A: FAA- the Kindle can transmit data too...

Q: TSA- second screening standing at the gate- fortunate enough to be re-screened at the gate – have only seen in ANC… (another MVPG saw in ATL)- “kind of make you feel like a shoplifter”
A: TSA is doing increased screening – random selection of both pax and employees - anecdotal stories... ANC tries to do announcements advising pax of this if TSA is at the gate...

Q: Too many bags- oversized baggage carry-on - charge for carry on? (general frustration with pax with too big of bags)
A: AS has been stationing more agents at TSA checkpoints to watch carry-on baggage. And if an MVPG wants, they can gate check (with yellow tag that gets dropped in jetway, vs. at the carousel like most pax)

Q: LAX-CUN route cancellation causing issues- for rebooking.
A: There is a group that works the flight cancellations –
LAX-CUN is discontinued service June 6 on… recommendation process we are negotiating some other carriers to rebook pax. Did not do a great job announcing this.

Have to call up for a schedule change of 2 minutes, 5 minutes- need to call in.
The broad thinking is we want to make sure we find the right option for the pax.

Q: Airport control- pain in the butt… when you get a window it opens up.
Once airport takes control the flight- it locks reservations out. Have to drive to airport to get a seat.
A: Solution- OLCI typically although some seats are blocked out…

This is good news, though...

It used to be if you bought on alaskaair.com you would see the link. But other booking channels forced a phone call. After August, we will assume you want to be on the list.

This is a major pain point. Kudos for fixing it (when it gets fixed).

Thanks for the notes!

Double daily to ORD


From ANC? Is one going to be a redeye, do you know?

Thanks for the notes!



From ANC? Is one going to be a redeye, do you know?

Yeah; picked a random date in June:

AS138 JUN 24-Thu ANC 11:15 PM ORD 8:18 AM

Thanks for the notes!

From ANC? Is one going to be a redeye, do you know?

Correct. This is a seasonal addition.... and AS is sticking to it (thought they might trim due to competition... but they are holding their ground ^)

Thanks for the notes!



From ANC? Is one going to be a redeye, do you know?

Correct. This is a seasonal addition.... and AS is sticking to it (thought they might trim due to competition... but they are holding their ground ^)

Yeah, AA and UA are both firing up ORD-ANC this summer as well. Might be some good deals to Chicago as a result.

Yeah, AA and UA are both firing up ORD-ANC this summer as well. Might be some good deals to Chicago as a result.

I hope so... there seemed to be some indication that if loads were low... there could be, but they were really touting the current fare sale as a good deal. It does seem there is some overcapacity here, especially on Saturdays :D

Also aked but left out of the notes was a request to increase the Anchorage Board room staff size as currently they are under staffed.:(

Also aked but left out of the notes was a request to increase the Anchorage Board room staff size as currently they are under staffed.:(

Ah yes it was omitted (was involved a bit too much in the previous discussion :p) - guess you were at the breakfast then :D It was suggested to take one of the BR Concierges from SEA and move them up to ANC...

If there is anything else I missed let me know... I had to run out of the room for a minute to feed the meeter... the street ones started at 9 AM...

Here are a few of more discussions:

Talked about simplifying the automatic upgrade request system. If you are an elite than you would be automatically placed on the upgrade list and would have to request to be taken off the list. So when we book our flights we would not need to request the upgrades it would be assumed.

Using the new Iceland air alliance with AS as an alternate way into Europe with custom taking ten minutes as opposed to several hours.

They talked about simplifying the ticket change fee to simply take that days fair price and base the fees on that price. May be more for the requested changes but simpler to calculate the fees. Should be implemented fairly soon.

This is about all I can remember.

Thanks for sharing Beckoa! Always knew we could count on you to do this :) ^

Delta-
NW & DL merged and formed largest airline in world. Struggling to get NW benefits back. As of the 1st of the year it should print MVPG on the boarding pass to allow you to enter the breezeway and either in 2 or 3. Preferred seating turned on in past 2-3 weeks either via website or when booking by phone. Reciprocial upgrades- they are coming, but coming slowly. Looks like it will be August now. It used to be if you bought on alaskaair.com you would see the link. But other booking channels forced a phone call. After August, we will assume you want to be on the list. You can opt out if you want then.


Golfingboy not happy :mad:

Anybody from AS know where AS stands on this reciprocal integration? Can Delta elites book preferred seats online on AS.com? I think if AS goes ahead and implement the reciprocal benefits for Delta, this would put a lot of pressure on Delta to get their act together...

Thanks for sharing Beckoa! Always knew we could count on you to do this :) ^



Golfingboy not happy :mad:



I was really hoping it would be in place by May, now I have to decide if I should go for the upgrades (DL Silver) or extra miles (MVPG) on some upcoming Delta flights. :(

Sounds good that the kenmore air contract was signed, but the real question is, any idea on when award travel on kenmore will be possible?

Sounds good that the kenmore air contract was signed, but the real question is, any idea on when award travel on kenmore will be possible?

I think I read somewhere else about setting up the interline being a major hurdle, and this was solved apparently. So hopefully soon ^ (will be similar to intra-AK awards on KS and 7H I think)

Big focus on value and taking care of our folks in Alaska.

Ahh yes, I see their current "sale" includes $510rt ANC-SEA-ANC... That has value written all over it. :rolleyes:

Ahh yes, I see their current "sale" includes $510rt ANC-SEA-ANC... That has value written all over it. :rolleyes:

And don't forget the "new and improved' costs for changes to an existing ticket. They can amount to hundreds of dollars. Very SOE and I have talked to several people that will be shopping other carriers in the future. In fact, our travel coordinator has been ordered to end our favoritism and shop elsewhere due to this.:mad:

The first time I get slapped by this will be the last time I favor AS. I do get to go outside our system due to my travel.

And don't forget the "new and improved' costs for changes to an existing ticket. They can amount to hundreds of dollars. Very SOE and I have talked to several people that will be shopping other carriers in the future. In fact, our travel coordinator has been ordered to end our favoritism and shop elsewhere due to this.:mad:

The first time I get slapped by this will be the last time I favor AS. I do get to go outside our system due to my travel.

Just don't buy round-trip tickets anymore. There's no financial incentive anymore when you purchase or when you need to make a change. Treat everything as a one way, and enjoy your extra flexibility when you need to skip the first leg of your trip without cancelling everything else.

If AS is going to treat your RT as two one-ways, you may as well just buy it that way to begin with.

Just don't buy round-trip tickets anymore. There's no financial incentive anymore when you purchase or when you need to make a change. Treat everything as a one way, and enjoy your extra flexibility when you need to skip the first leg of your trip without canceling everything else.

If AS is going to treat your RT as two one-ways, you may as well just buy it that way to begin with.

Yes, but decades of training in the RT world is going to make the majority of AS fliers unwitting victims to the new AS gouging scheme.....:td::td:

Most people will not understand that they need to buy two one ways........

I wonder how long AS has been stringing this thought process out to where they can pull this s**t off. One ways were promoted as an option, not the only way to go.

The first time I get slapped by this will be the last time I favor AS. I do get to go outside our system due to my travel.

is your outside carrier going to waive your change fees?

is your outside carrier going to waive your change fees?

$500.00 upcharge will cover a LOT of change fees. And when status moves, so do the bennies...It's called status match. Not that I'm doing it anytime soon, but I bet a lot of others will be looking at that option.

$500.00 upcharge will cover a LOT of change fees. And when status moves, so do the bennies...It's called status match. Not that I'm doing it anytime soon, but I bet a lot of others will be looking at that option.

Does other airlines Elite flyers get waived change fees like AS MVPG and 75K?

This is not a benefit with HA Pualani Gold...not sure if Platinum allows this benefit or you have to be a corporate account.

I do not have elite status with anyone else, so, any information is greatly appreciated.

Does other airlines Elite flyers get waived change fees like AS MVPG and 75K?

This is not a benefit with HA Pualani Gold...not sure if Platinum allows this benefit or you have to be a corporate account.

I do not have elite status with anyone else, so, any information is greatly appreciated.

Many airlines waive change fees for their top elites.... You can view more info by going to the elite status benefits page at each respective carrier's site.

Delta [Gold or higher]: http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about_skymiles/benefits_at_glance/index.jsp

United [No Info]: http://www.united.com/page/middlepage/0,6823,1159,00.html

US Airways [None]: http://www.usairways.com/en-US/dividendmiles/preferred/benefits.html

American [EXP or higher]: http://www.aa.com/i18n/AAdvantage/programDetails/eliteStatus/eliteBenefitsChart.jsp

Continental [Plat or higher]: http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/onepass/elite/default.aspx

Alaska [MVPG or higher]: http://www.alaskaair.com/as/mileageplan/mvpstatus.asp

The thing is, if other airlines treat THEIR tickets as one ways (and thus make it so changes to the second half of an itinerary have the same advance purchase rule as the first half), you're going to get the same problem.

The grass might not be greener.

Many airlines waive change fees for their top elites.... You can view more info by going to the elite status benefits page at each respective carrier's site.

Delta [Gold or higher]: http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about_skymiles/benefits_at_glance/index.jsp

United [No Info]: http://www.united.com/page/middlepage/0,6823,1159,00.html

US Airways [None]: http://www.usairways.com/en-US/dividendmiles/preferred/benefits.html

American [EXP or higher]: http://www.aa.com/i18n/AAdvantage/programDetails/eliteStatus/eliteBenefitsChart.jsp

Continental [Plat or higher]: http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/onepass/elite/default.aspx

Alaska [MVPG or higher]: http://www.alaskaair.com/as/mileageplan/mvpstatus.asp

Delta, Continental, and AA only refer to fee waivers for same-day-change and award tickets for elites. I'm not aware of any other major domestic airline who waives change fees for regular purchased tickets for its elites.

Now if AS would just waive the $25 SDC fee for its elites, then I would be a happy camper. But I can't complain much given the very reasonable amount and generous 24-hour window.

I'm not aware of any other major domestic airline who waives change fees for regular purchased tickets for its elites.
You can't have a conversation about change fees without mentioning WN, who doesn't charge anyone change fees (their standby up-fare policy notwithstanding). This is a big deal for this non-MVPG when booking travel to the Bay Area whenever I might be changing my plans before I fly.

Delta, Continental, and AA only refer to fee waivers for same-day-change and award tickets for elites. I'm not aware of any other major domestic airline who waives change fees for regular purchased tickets for its elites.


CO and AA waives direct ticketing change fees for their top elites for purchased tickets.

DL, I don't think they do the same as AS, CO, and AA....

I think everyone is missing the point. To quote from our travel agency:

"NOTICE:

New rules for changing your Alaska Airlines ticket go into effect tomorrow, March 24th.

Basically stated, when making a change to a ticket, ANY segments that are being changed will need to be re-priced at the lowest qualifying fare available at the time of the change.

Here is an example:
You purchase a 14-day advance Round Trip ticket from Anchorage to Chicago in "T" class. Currently that base fare is $218.10 each way plus tax.

The day before your return, you need to delay your return by one day.
Under the old system, if "T" class was open you would pay a change fee of $75.00 and the change would be made.

Under the new system, you cannot use the "T" class because you fail to qualify for the 14 day advance requirement. You would qualify for a "Y" fare of $697.10.

End redult is $554.00 plus tax to change this ticket instead of $75.00.

We have been studying this rule change for a week now, and we have developed some strategies for issuing Alaska Airlines tickets. Applying this new rule, there will be times when it can be advantageous to issue two one ways over one round trip, or advantageous to sell another carrier (underline mine) even though you fly on an Alaska Airlines airplane.

We just want to remind you we have your best interest as priority one, we keep current on all these changes, and when booking a ticket with us we will review these detail so you can make an informed decision.

Thank you for your continued business."

I may have missed it, but I have not seen much coming from AS about this. When we are talking about hundreds of dollars of additional cost like the example above, the change fees become almost moot.

I'm not missing the point. I just don't quite see it as the catastrophe implied.

The day before your return, you need to delay your return by one day.
Under the old system, if "T" class was open you would pay a change fee of $75.00 and the change would be made.

Under the new system, you cannot use the "T" class because you fail to qualify for the 14 day advance requirement. You would qualify for a "Y" fare of $697.10

... or you could do OLCI and delay your flight to the next day for $25 using same-day change. (Presumably, there would be seats available, since the example specifically says there are.)

Where this would fail is if you need to push your return flight back, say, a week. Is this a common feature for most customers, compared to being able to use My Wallet WN-style, and being able to use ALL your flight credits (as opposed to have AS eat some value when you exchange the value of your ticket for another ticket), or being able to undo AS50s (which I've done)? In this case, I guess it's a tradeoff.

Also: are there other airlines that handle their flights in this way- allowing changes outside of the advance purchase window as long as the fare class is open?

and being able to use ALL your flight credits (as opposed to have AS eat some value when you exchange the value of your ticket for another ticket),

can you clarify what you mean here?

I'm not missing the point. I just don't quite see it as the catastrophe implied.



... or you could do OLCI and delay your flight to the next day for $25 using same-day change. (Presumably, there would be seats available, since the example specifically says there are.)
I wonder if you could do this over a sequence of days? As a Gold there would be no change fee and the daily charge might be lower than the outright change....

Back in the day before My Wallet, I wasn't always able to get all the value back from my tickets when exchanging them...

I wonder if you could do this over a sequence of days? As a Gold there would be no change fee and the daily charge might be lower than the outright change....
Last time I did OLCI and did standby (had meant to do SDC) it no longer gave me any more options to do SDC or standby online or at the kiosk(s). Calling them didn't help either. The flights were fairly full though, so that may be why. Doing SDC may have better results.

I wonder if you could do this over a sequence of days? As a Gold there would be no change fee and the daily charge might be lower than the outright change....

No, once you opt for a confirmed SDC seat, OLCI will no longer allow further changes. You will need a TA/GA to make any additional adjustments, and as airport employees, they will only ever adjust your flight to another one on the same calendar day (no rolling 24-hour window flexibility).

So best case, you have an 8AM departure and need to stay several days longer. At 7 AM day of departure, you OLCI and confirm a seat for a 6:30 AM departure the next day. Stay your extra day, have your meeting, then the next day, show up early and beg an AS agent to have mercy on your soul and switch your early departure to the last flight of the day. Total extra time gained: around 36 hours.

As a Gold, you would be much better off just buying several extra one-ways for your return leg well ahead of time. Buy a return ticket for every possible day you might return, and use the one that suits you. Dump the value for all the ones you don't use into your My Wallet and use later at your convenience, for yourself or friends if necessary. Hey, if an airline wants to play the "we purposely overbook flights" game, you should have no qualms playing right back.

Hey, if an airline wants to play the "we purposely overbook flights" game, you should have no qualms playing right back.

Many people doing that would directly lead lead to an increase in future overbooking levels. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Sorry for going off-topic.

Consider yourself fortunate to deal with AS. UA charges $150 change fee even for 1Ks like myself.:mad: Makes it of very limited value to try and reprice a ticket if the fare drops, unlike AS where I will call even to save $30.

And My Wallet is wonderful.^


Glenn

I think everyone is missing the point. To quote from our travel agency:

"NOTICE:

New rules for changing your Alaska Airlines ticket go into effect tomorrow, March 24th.

Basically stated, when making a change to a ticket, ANY segments that are being changed will need to be re-priced at the lowest qualifying fare available at the time of the change.

Here is an example:
You purchase a 14-day advance Round Trip ticket from Anchorage to Chicago in "T" class. Currently that base fare is $218.10 each way plus tax.

The day before your return, you need to delay your return by one day.
Under the old system, if "T" class was open you would pay a change fee of $75.00 and the change would be made.

Under the new system, you cannot use the "T" class because you fail to qualify for the 14 day advance requirement. You would qualify for a "Y" fare of $697.10.

End redult is $554.00 plus tax to change this ticket instead of $75.00.

I, for one, think this is ridiculous and a huge money grab by AS. I am already using WN more because it saves me up to $40 in bag charges each way not to mention change fees. AS needs to wake up here. If the same inventory bucket is available, AS should make the change without a fare increase. Period. I don't mind paying the change fee, just don't gouge me with some ridiculous fare increase b/c it's no longer 14 days in advance. There's basically no chance you'll ever have that kind of advanced purchase when trying to change a return ticket.

just don't gouge me with some ridiculous fare increase b/c it's no longer 14 days in advance. There's basically no chance you'll ever have that kind of advanced purchase when trying to change a return ticket.
Bingo!!! My point exactly.

what airlines charge one way fares, yet don't require repricing to change?

what airlines charge one way fares, yet don't require repricing to change?

Well, theoretically, AS did, except they weren't REALLY one-ways.

But yeah, try redoing a WN return on a round-trip when you're out of "Wanna Get Away" range for the return. You're going to be charged "Anytime". Oh, and that INCLUDES standby- you're immediately upfared.

But I'll be blunt: given a choice between coughing up residual value on tickets (which I've done on AS on some occasions) and coughing up extra cash to redo a return outside of the 14-day or whatever window (which I've never done), I pick getting ALL the value of my AS purchases. In fact, flying as an MVPG, AS has everything WN has, AND free standby/change to coterminal/same day change. It's actually better than WN.

Bingo!!! My point exactly.

What you're giving up is an artifact that remained when AS went to one-way pricing for every ticket, but kept the "same fare bucket on return" policy even though they treated all RT tickets as two one-way tickets in terms of pricing.

Try changing at the last minute to another day on Virgin America. You WILL pay the higher fare. And, if you bought the wrong kind of ticket, a change fee.

You may be irritated by this change in policy, but I'll take the ability to buy no-non-RT-penalty one-way tickets and get the benefit of that flexibility over return fare bucket protection any day.