Spain/Portugal/Gibraltar - Spain Itin Comments

Going to Spain in September with my wife, kids (4 and 2), and two sisters as back up. After reading a bunch of guides and using this forum I put the following itin together that I would like some feedback on.


2 days in Madrid
3 days in Barcelona (with a 1/2 day excursion to Montserrat)
3 days in Marbella
1/2 day to Gibraltar with the second 1/2 driving to Seville
1 day in Seville, return to Madrid via train that night for next day flight home

Our time in Madrid and Barcelona is locked due to the flights I already booked. Marbella onward is still flexible because I will rent a car from there to Seville. Marbella was meant as rest time for a day on the beach with the other days spent doing side trips. I am thinking I might be better off spending 1 less day there and using it to spend an extra 1/2 day in Seville and then stopping in Toledo for a few hours on the train ride back to Madrid. I realize many will think we are not spending enough time in each city but because of the kids we cannot spend a lot of time in museums. My goal was to see as much as possible in our 10 days on the ground.

Is Toledo worth a few hours; am I right that it could be walking excursion from the train station?

Hey there,

wow - this looks like a RST (Rapid Spanish Tourism)! I'm pretty used to that, but for you and kids (4/2) it's going be a pretty challenging one!. I'm glad that you're coming there in September, as Andalucian sun is a bit more respectful to the tourists outside Jul/Aug period. But do prepare for rather higher temperatures outside.

Madrid / Barcelona - you said it's locked - so let me refrain from the big comments, but two days per each (commuting included) is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar not enough for any of those places. Please do prepare yourself for the very disciplined tours. You have no time to lose - do avoid pure tourist spots - they are not really worth it (La Rambla in BCN for example).

Marbella, well, you and most likely your kids will need one day to recover after MAD / BCN marathon, but spending 3 days there it's not the best use of your very limited time I must admit. I used to attend a conference in Marbella every year, and it's a really borning place if you don't have "business obligations" (=party with customers).

Personally I do put museums a bit lower on my priority list - I rather walk / see / smell / feel / taste the city. But if I think about your time constrains, I think there is almost no time left for museums :(.

You said you have a car - how about visiting Malaga (http://kowalik.smugmug.com/Travel/Malaga-06/4477163_Xnydt#263325413_mAMXG-A-LB) for a day? How about going to Granada? Still - one day trips are pretty exhausting - I always get in the evening, sleep somewhere, and spend whole day walking, but it's far better time use, than the beach-fun (unless you're a big fan of it, of course). Gibraltar is worth seeing as well (http://kowalik.smugmug.com/Travel/Malaga-06/4477163_Xnydt#263323467_TyorC-A-LB).

Toledo? Absolutely worth one day trip! Loved it (http://kowalik.smugmug.com/Travel/Spain-May-08/4836851_djzLf#287913570_q4zw8-A-LB) . Two notes only:
- train station - city distance is walkable (in European terms, no offense, but there are different definitions around "walkable"), but not sure if it's doable with 2/4 yo kids.
- Toledo is founded on a hill, so do expect some steep walking, stairs, narrow streets and not 100% flat sidewalks (stroller issues).

Good luck with your trip, you will most likely love it. Spain (& Portugal) is a wonderful place to spend your free time, and do focus on the local cusine - you can get top-class lunch menu for far less than 20EUR - watch where locals eat. Don't use hotels or well-visible restaurants. Smaller it looks, better food it serves (this rule always works). And if you happen to be near to the Atocha station in MAD, you HAVE TO taste bocadillos (rolls) from El Brillante.

ouch, got hungry now :)

best
mf

Marbella was meant as rest time for a day on the beach with the other days spent doing side trips. I am thinking I might be better off spending 1 less day there and using it to spend an extra 1/2 day in Seville

If you want to relax on the beach I'd stay in Barcelona area. Marbella is, for a 10 day trip, really off the beaten track. And, definitely, would not go to Malaga. If you really wish to go to Andalusia, Seville (2 1/2 hrs), Córdoba (2hrs) or Granada (¿?) are much better options.

...stopping in Toledo for a few hours on the train ride back to Madrid.Is Toledo worth a few hours; am I right that it could be walking excursion from the train station?

The problem is that the train between Seville and Madrid does not stop in Toledo. Actually you would have to "get back" on a different track to go to Toledo. A great city, but it may be really hot even in September, depending on the weather, and these days you do not know.

The only real question you ask is about Toledo. So mentally you’ve probably already made up your mind about the itinerary. But for what it’s worth, my comments:

I understand that you want to see as much as possible. But I would skip Marbella, unless you have a very specific reason to go there. It’s totally overrated, IMHO.

I would use the extra time for Sevilla (and maybe and extra day in Madrid at the end of your journey).

And would you mind telling us how you plan to travel between cities. I know Madrid – Barcelona is already blocked (a shame, you could win some time by taking the train). But how do you want to go to Andalucía?

First, thank you for the responses. Yes it is a rapid trip to see the sites. My wife and I decided that in 30 years when we are retired we will go back and see all the cities in Europe we spent to little time in.

I already booked plane tickets for MAD to BCN and BCN to AGP. I am using a lot of SPG and Marriott points on this trip and availability drove most of the dates. Le Meridian in Barcelona and the Marriott on Marbella. I really want to see Gibraltar (I am big on world landmarks and chose this over the Guggenheim in Bilbao). Flying to Malaga, resting in Marbella, and going to Gibraltar from there before Seville seemed like a better option than flying BCN-SEV and doing a day trip to Gibraltar from there.

Based on the responses I will cut a day off Marbella. Thanks for letting me know Toledo is not a stop between Seville and Madrid on the AVE, I could not see that from my guide books. Perhaps I will not return the van, and keep it through to MAD. I would leave Marbella on Sunday morning and go to Gibraltar, Sunday night and all day Monday in Seville, get up Tuesday and drive to Toledo for the afternoon, and end the day in MAD. Perhaps we will spend some time in Malaga after we arrive before going to Marbella.

Sorry, but what do you expect to see in Gibraltar? With your schedule from Sevilla to Madrid via Toledo I would suggest to skip it and save that time. I imagine you have checked driving times and itineraries in e.g. viamichelin.com or google.maps. Maybe it looks like a five hour drive is not too much but trying to get into and out of every city can take an extra hour at least (even more in Barcelona or Madrid where traffic jams are common). Add some extra time to find a place to park and you will have easily spent part of your sightseeing time.

For your beach option I would consider the area around Barcelona or even la Costa Brava, much convenient than Marbella for your itinerary.

Sorry, but what do you expect to see in Gibraltar?

I am big into seeing major landmarks, and the rock is one of them. I know there is not much there as far as culture or food but its on my list and this is the easiest way to see it. I had similar pushback when planning my Italy trip and took 1/2 a day off Florence to see the tower in Pisa. I realize it will cost me one full day to spend a few hours in Gibraltar, however that day gets me from Marbella to Seville.

Point taken on the Seville to Mardrid trip. Looks like I will cut out Toledo for more time in Seville and simply stick to the AVE for transportation

I understand that you want to see as much as possible. But I would skip Marbella, unless you have a very specific reason to go there. It’s totally overrated, IMHO.

I would use the extra time for Sevilla (and maybe and extra day in Madrid at the end of your journey).

+1 Sevilla is an awesome city. Especially if you are there on a Sunday afternoon. Everyone is out and about enjoying life. Sit and have a drink on the river at one of the many outdoor cafes. Cross the river into the other part of the city. More like real life.

Sorry, but what do you expect to see in Gibraltar?

I am big into seeing major landmarks, and the rock is one of them. I know there is not much there as far as culture or food but its on my list and this is the easiest way to see it. I had similar pushback when planning my Italy trip and took 1/2 a day off Florence to see the tower in Pisa. I realize it will cost me one full day to spend a few hours in Gibraltar, however that day gets me from Marbella to Seville.

Point taken on the Seville to Mardrid trip. Looks like I will cut out Toledo for more time in Seville and simply stick to the AVE for transportation

I went to Gibralter. It was very cool. I know that it is no longer encouraged, but feeding the Gibralter apes was also very cool. The roads are crowded though and the road to the top narrow with little parking. If you can get a tour bus, you may want to consider that.

I know that it is no longer encouraged, but feeding the Gibralter apes was also very cool.

It isn't "no longer encouraged", it's illegal.

And feeding the Barbary macaques is not cool :td:
By indulging your own selfish pleasure in seeing these animals taking food from you you are encouraging behaviour that leads to these troops having to be culled periodically by the authorities as a duty to the local citizens.

Perhaps you think it's cool to feed wild bears near urban centres in your own country. I understand this kind of irresponsibility is also 'no longer encouraged' in the US.

One last thing about Gibraltar. Do not try to enter with the car. Leave it outside, in La Línea. There are plenty of car parks. The reason is that if the border police is in the mood of taking its time, you may spend three hours in line trying to get out.

It is an interesting experience to cross the airport runway walking, and even more to have to wait to see a plane land or take off.

Deleted

2 days in Madrid
3 days in Barcelona (with a 1/2 day excursion to Montserrat)
3 days in Marbella
1/2 day to Gibraltar with the second 1/2 driving to Seville
1 day in Seville, return to Madrid via train that night for next day flight home


A very ambitious itinerary indeed, especially for two little kids and what you're talking about in Andalucía. But you say you've already booked AGP and are staying at one of the Marriott timeshares. We own at both of those Marriott resorts, so I'd be curious as to which one you're staying at.

I can tell from our own trips to that region that Gibraltar and Sevilla are not possible in one day. Before you shave days off of the AGP itineray, I would sincerely suggest instead that the MAD/BCN remain as your "power itineray" which will have you guys on the go every day. If you're booked at one of those Marriott resorts, you're in the prefect place for the kids as both resorts have kiddie pools and the whole family can take it easy and enjoy what are some of Marriott's top-tier timeshare resorts.

Forget about Sevilla and possibly even Gibraltar ( or take the tour run out of the resort as you do not want to drive a rental car into Gibraltar -- the car lines back into Spain can often be long and slow ). Once you see those resorts you will do better to slow down for the rest of the trip and enjoy the beautiful weather that time of year and ambiance of the resort. If you do want to venture out, I'd suggest a couple of trips into the mountains in the direction of Ronda. You could do them as half day or whole day excursions taking different circular routes through the mountains ( for example go south towards Estepona and head into the mountains for Casares --> Gaucin --> Ronda and back to the resort ). That's a 65 mile journey or so done at a leisurely pace and you can stop at white villages along the way and poke around or simply keep driving until you get to Ronda which is 40 miles from the resort. You've got Marbella, Puerto Banus, and Estepona ( the former pair 5 miles from resort and the latter perhaps 10 depending upon which resort you're staying at ). Restaurants, shopping, history, antigua cuidades in Marbella and Estepona all within 10 to 20 minutes of driving.

As someone mentions, Costa del Sol is itself a one week destination, but you guys could slow down after your northern adventures and let the Andalucían people wine and dine you as you relax on the beaches or in the resort pools with less ambitious day trips.

Have a nice trip.

Barry

We are staying at the Marriott Marbella Beach resort since from what I read, and the costs, it appears to be the better option.

I realize the roads from Gibraltar to Seville are not the most direct but my understanding is that it should be a 2.5 to 3 hour trip. My idea was to leave Marbella on Sunday morning for the 1 hour drive to La Linea. I will take the advice of not trying to drive across the border. We will spend about 4 hours in Gibraltar and then drive to Seville late that afternoon. We would not be sightseeing in Seville on Sunday. We will save that for Monday and Tuesday morning before taking the AVE back to Madrid.

I have no doubt that Marbella is beautiful and that is why I chose it for a couple of days of rest. I just do not want to spend too much time there when I can take in a couple of other cities.

We are staying at the Marriott Marbella Beach resort since from what I read, and the costs, it appears to be the better option.

I realize the roads from Gibraltar to Seville are not the most direct but my understanding is that it should be a 2.5 to 3 hour trip. My idea was to leave Marbella on Sunday morning for the 1 hour drive to La Linea. I will take the advice of not trying to drive across the border. We will spend about 4 hours in Gibraltar and then drive to Seville late that afternoon. We would not be sightseeing in Seville on Sunday. We will save that for Monday and Tuesday morning before taking the AVE back to Madrid.

I have no doubt that Marbella is beautiful and that is why I chose it for a couple of days of rest. I just do not want to spend too much time there when I can take in a couple of other cities.

If one considers the totality of what Spain has to offer, I wouldn't describe Marbella as beautiful. A place to avoid, I'd have thought. Nearby Malaga is a much better destination, in my view.

I echo an up-post that said your itin is ambitious (given large party and with kids).
Toledo is worth a day-trip, from Madrid (easy access by train). I think it is definitely walkable from station to upper hill. But, but with kids I would suggest simply take the bus from the right-front side of the station. Once up to town center, take that little tram that goes around the perimeter of town, for a good intro. Definite worth the time.