Russia - $12K for 4 Days in Russia?

My family and I are scheduled on a crazy RTW trip. The Russia thing was almost a side issue, but now with the price I may need to reconsider.

I have received a quote for almost $12K for the following (family of 5, I think it is 2 rooms most places, private tours, driver and tour guide, etc.).

5 Business class tickets DME-LED
Grand Hotel Europe / private tour Hermitage and Palace
Grand Hotel Europe / Pushkin Tour
Overnight Grand Express
Le Meridien / Red Square and Armory

We are 'Hilton' type of people (3-4 star). My children are 9-12. We travel a lot, but somehow 'safety' was more of a concern for this trip?

Suggestions on how to lower the cost? Observations?

There is frequent overnight train service from Moscow to Saint Petersburg, it's not super expensive and quite pleasant if you get on a good train in first class. And hardly any of the trains get blown up.

I'd think you could shave off at least half of the cost without losing much in comfort. In particular, the business class tickets are likely significantly more expensive than economy - something to consider for a one hour hop.

Perhaps it would make sense to get a different quote - did you have a look at http://gotorussia.com?

While those are 2 of the most expensive cities in the world for business style travel (more expensive than NYC), you seem to be paying 100% premium to the tour operator for their kind ministrations. You can get top-notch accomodation (2 rooms or suite equivalent) for USD 1000 per night, so the whole trip can be done luxuriously for $6K, unless you really need $200/hour guides for 12 hours/day.

There is frequent overnight train service from Moscow to Saint Petersburg, it's not super expensive and quite pleasant if you get on a good train in first class. And hardly any of the trains get blown up.

You can cut your cost drastically, by taking the new HIGH speed train between StPete and Moscow, called SAPSAN (Russian for the world's fastest bird), which started in December. It can reach speeds of up to 250 kilometers per hour and is mfg by Siemens of Germany. Train runs 3x/day leaving both cities at 6.45a, 1.00p, 7.00p. Cost for 1st Class is $164-$197, 2nd class $79-95. Trip takes about 3h45m and can be as fast flying since you are going from city center to city center. I highly recommend it. A lot of business people use this train to commute between the 2 cities. Aeroflot is not very happy about their monopoly in this instance.

12k is an outrageous amount of money to pay for a 4 day trip. I think you can do much better optimizing your airfare and hotels. I would recommend using your Hotel points for free stays if you have any.

Russia is very safe. No need to be concerned.

12k is insane. Air travel between the two cities is pretty inexpensive. It's a 1 hour flight. Business class is really unnecessary. The Grand Hotel Europe is way overpriced IMHO. There are plenty of other good hotels in SPB. I'm sure your tours are also way overpriced. Every tour company in the city offers tours of the places you want to see. You could very easily cut your total price to 1/3 of the quote IMHO.

You can get top-notch accomodation (2 rooms or suite equivalent) for USD 1000 per night

I have an extra bedroom I'm willing to rent for a mere $500 per night :D

You can get really good rooms in Moscow and St. Pete for $500 per night or less. Even better than my spare bedroom. $12K is insane.

I would also second the proposal for the train between St. Pete and Moscow. By the time you get all your family to the airport, get through all the security, etc, its just much easier to do the train, and less expensive.

5 Business class tickets DME-LED - Go for Y with SU from SVO. Should be around $100 per ticket. It is only an hour - won't be a major inconvenience. www.aeroflot.ru
Grand Hotel Europe / private tour Hermitage and Palace
Grand Hotel Europe / Pushkin Tour - Europe is the most expensive hotel in St.Pete. It is grand but not worth the money they want. There are plenty of cheaper options. If you are not after 5* experience, go for a smaller boutique hotel. Check out http://www.azimuthotels.ru/en/ - a decent 3* hotel which will cost you around $100-150 per night depending on the dates of your travel.
Check out this web-site for walking tours - http://www.peterswalk.com/index.html
Overnight Grand Express - Go for the Red Arrow night train. It is $140-200 per ticket. I would suggest you book a 4-bed compartment for your wife and kids and go for a 2-bed compartment for yourself. Trains leave St.Pete at midnight and arrives in Moscow around 6 am; you will save 1 night of accommodation. https://www.russiantrains.com/
Le Meridien / Red Square and Armory - The only Le Meridien I know in Moscow is in Nakhabino, which is around 10 miles to the north of Moscow. Transfers to the city will be long and expensive. I suggest you book Holiday Inn Lesnaya (30 minutes walk to the Red Square or 6 minutes ride on metro), which is across the street from Belorusskaya Station where SVO aeroexpress arrives. Should be around $200 per night.
For tours - http://www.bestrussiantour.com/

s - Go for the Red Arrow night train. It is $140-200 per ticket. I would suggest you book a 4-bed compartment for your wife and kids and go for a 2-bed compartment for yourself. Trains leave St.Pete at midnight and arrives in Moscow around 6 am; you will save 1 night of accommodation. https://www.russiantrains.com/
- The only Le Meridien I know in Moscow is in Nakhabino, which is around 10 miles to the north of Moscow. Transfers to the city will be long and expensive. I suggest you book Holiday Inn Lesnaya (30 minutes walk to the Red Square or 6 minutes ride on metro), which is across the street from Belorusskaya Station where SVO aeroexpress arrives. Should be around $200 per night.
For tours - http://www.bestrussiantour.com/
I second the Red Arrow suggestion! It's not to be missed.

In Moscow there are quite a few US hotel chains with locations downtown. The metro is excellent, so anything in or near the Garden Ring should work. There are Marriott and Hyatt properties near Red Square. The fairly new Hilton property is also pretty well located.

I second the Red Arrow suggestion! It's not to be missed.

Third. I took it in October, quite pleasant.

But lesenok talks about the new high speed train (which wasn't available when I went there), maybe it is better.

the new high speed train [...] maybe it is better.
It might (or might not) be better but this is not the authentic Russian train experience. Riding Siemens train to Moscow is utter blasphemy IMHO.:)

12k ? This smacks of someone trying to boast about their financial clout... no one can seriously lock themselves into this deal and stare you in eyes afterwards.

It might (or might not) be better but this is not the authentic Russian train experience. Riding Siemens train to Moscow is utter blasphemy IMHO.:)

I rode the Sapsan last month..... loved the authentic experience that has normally greeted rail travelers between St.P & Moscow but the Sapsan wins by a long shot.... real nice treat and the prices are rather reasonable considering the variables involved. SU will be announcing a FF bonus next month for those using the Sap -

In fact, you can try to stay under 3000$ for everything and still keep it luxurious.
Stay with economy class - no reason to waste money on a one-hour flight, as the plane will most likely be Tupolev anyway;)
Stay with Novotel in S.Pb, save yourself a ton of money.
Go with Red Arrow, they're better than Grand Express, cheaper and provide the historical experience more than any other train.
Ditch the Le Meridien, they're too far from the city and you'll spend all the time in traffic - Volokolamskoye shosse has way too much traffic nowadays. Use the Golden Apple Boutique Hotel,for example , and have some nice experience together with an awesome location in the city center.

If you think there's a problem with the agency that arranges the trip for you, write me - I can give you the contact info of the agency that is owned by my family and is located in Moscow. They'd be happy to assist you. And I can give you the contact info of my fiance, and she can help you with the arrangements when you're in Moscow(her major is Linguistics, so there won't be any trouble with communication).
Should there be anything you'd like to ask, do not hesitate to write me. I'm happily back to the areas where internet is not a privilege, and will gladly help you in any way I can.

loved the authentic experience that has normally greeted rail travelers between St.P & Moscow but the Sapsan wins by a long shot.... real nice treat and the prices are rather reasonable

^^

My sentiments exactly !

And with the $$ saved, you can treat yourselves to a nice dinner at the Legendary NOBU restaurant on 20 B. Dmitrovka St. for some great Japanese cuisine.

My family and I are scheduled on a crazy RTW trip. The Russia thing was almost a side issue, but now with the price I may need to reconsider.

I have received a quote for almost $12K for the following (family of 5, I think it is 2 rooms most places, private tours, driver and tour guide, etc.).

5 Business class tickets DME-LED


5 Business Class Tickets = 1000$ for 5 one-ways if I recall. Do you need it for 1 hr flight? Not sure, but this is up to you.


Grand Hotel Europe / private tour Hermitage and Palace


2 rooms at 800-1000$ per night. Worth it? Definitely no in my personal opinion. If you want historic luxury, check out Astoria or D'Angleterre. Suites in both should be around 400-600 range.

So we are looking at 4000$ potentially going down to 2000 without decreasing service.


Grand Hotel Europe / Pushkin Tour


OK. How much per Tour? Day tour should be around 300-500 max inclusive of driver car and a guide. If they charge you per hour - they definitely cheat on you big time.

So tours for 4 days - 2000.


Overnight Grand Express


Fine. Up to you. 1000 for 5 one way in first class.


Le Meridien / Red Square and Armory


I guess this is Le Meridien Royal National at Red Square currently flagged as Luxury Collection National. This is overhyped hotel in my opinion, however Kremlin views are fantastic. Traditional Suites go for 1000 a night, I highly encourage you to consider business suites at 500 a night.

So we are looking at 4000 here potentially going down to 2000.

So I see here 12000 in charges, which can be reduced to 8000 with just touch or two.

If you want it really in style, here are some tips from Merlion:

I would go for Astoria suites in Saint Petersburg. As mentioned you should be able to get it under 600. Location next to cathedral is cool as well. Tours - get some tours on a per-day package with car. If you were planning to rent a car from hotel and I assumed rates for hotel to high in my calcs above - I understand where you are getting charged additional for tours. Hotel cars go at 60-70 per hour, so my recommendation - you need to get a tour which includes Mercedes mini-van, chauffeur and a guide. Those can be researched and provided under 500$ per day all inclusive.

In Moscow drop National and go for Ritz. Book club level rooms. They are suite size. Go for 1004 and 1005 in your request to the hotel (both with looks to Kremlin). Yes, it is 1000+ a night, but it is worth it.

This is my opinion about stylish accommodations.

If you want to save Money - Sheraton or Marriott at Belorusskya subway on Tverskaya are your value bets. Marriott there have a family suite, which is 2 bedroom suite if I remember correctly, which doesn't have grandeur of presidential or diplomatic suite, but a nice 2 bedroom suite (not available online, you should mail them or call them - very popular with large families and pretty much only one suite like this in whole city). Sheraton or Marriott will save you 2000+ in Moscow for sure.

Moscow is expensive, there are no doubts on that and I have sinned before on spending much more then 12000 on accommodation for a week and restaurants only in that gorgeous city traveling alone (no adult entertainment included - it was a separate budget line), but if you want to save money - it is possible and you won't lose safety feeling or it won't make your trip less memorable. If you want truly stylish long weekend, you might have to add another 10K to the budget above.

Gosh, that pricing certainly seems excessive. Others have added far better ideas that I could.

But just to respond to your remark about "safety". My wife and I spent five days last summer wandering every nook and cranny of St. Petersburg on foot and using the subways. Our hotel was not in prime tourist area so we would walk through the neighborhoods to get to where we were going. We never had any problems (and we took the usual precautions of money belts etc.) other than one guy who tried to get in my pocket on a crowded bridge at the Hermitage.

We did not set up any private tours and still found getting in and out of most places quite easy even in the dead of the summer crush.

Ordering Hermitage tickets on line in advance is a must if you're not going to do a private tour though.

RTW with the kids! Sounds like a great trip!

Best, Joel

Ordering Hermitage tickets on line in advance is a must if you're not going to do a private tour though.Paying a private "guide" to get you in is also quite easy. There always seems to be at least one of them walking the line.

We stayed at the new Courtyard Marriott in St. Pete for $129/night. It's not smack dab in the center, but it's within a 20 min walking distance to the Hermitage, or a $5 cab ride.

In Moscow, you can stay in one of the several Marriotts or the new Hilton there and probably save a bunch of money as well. $12k is preposterous.