Gaming Loyalty Programs - how much slot/VP play needed for cheaper Rio room rate?

I will be staying at the Rio for most of the month of June for the World Series of Poker. I am a humble Gold TR card member - I don't play table games and I have only rarely played VP. The Rio jacks up their room rates during the WSOP, so most nights I'm seeing $70/weeknight and $155-170/weekend with my TR card (it's generally $10 higher without my card entered).

I know other people with a moderate amount of slot play on their cards have received $40/weeknights by using their TR cards, or by using a companion card. Would it work for me to sit at a VP machine for a few/couple of hours to get better rates at the Rio in June? Any idea how many tier points I would need to accumulate? (I have only played on a machine two or three times, so I would expect that even a couple of hours of play would boost my ADT by a significant ratio ... whether it would increase it enough to matter is the big question)

Followup question ... how long does it take before an increased ADT/loss on my account shows up in reduced room rates? (I'm not talking about offers for free rooms etc - just the displayed room rates on the website)



thanks for any advice you can offer...

Why don't you play some craps (pass line or come, taking odds)? The -EV is negligible, the game is fun, the company is fun, and you might actually win some money. You are a poker player, wouldn't you rather play at -0.33% instead of slot or VP odds? The only drawback is, the Rio table minima are $10-$15, sometimes a minimum of $15, even on graveyard shift.

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Why don't you play some craps (pass line or come, taking odds)? The -EV is negligible, the game is fun, the company is fun, and you might actually win some money. You are a poker player, wouldn't you rather play at -0.33% instead of slot of VP odds? The only drawback is, the Rio table minima are $10-$15, sometimes a minimum of $15, even on graveyard shift.

It is my impression that to get the same benefit (presumably meaning the same ADT score) I would have to spend MANY more hours playing craps compared to VP or slots.

If I'm wrong about that I would be interested to be corrected.

And VP odds are not that much worse than craps -0.46% right? I guess the variance is less brutal with craps, since no part of your expected return comes from a big longshot payout that only comes around very rarely. But I still think I'm just not going to get much benefit out of a few hours at a craps table. If I hand a pit boss my TR card and say I want to be rated and then start playing $10 craps, won't he just laugh?

Thanks for the reply, and again, I'm happy to be set straight if I've got this all wrong. I would indeed get more enjoyment out of a few hours at a craps table than a VP machine.

It is my impression that to get the same benefit (presumably meaning the same ADT score) I would have to spend MANY more hours playing craps compared to VP or slots.

If I'm wrong about that I would be interested to be corrected.

And VP odds are not that much worse than craps -0.46% right? I guess the variance is less brutal with craps, since no part of your expected return comes from a big longshot payout that only comes around very rarely. But I still think I'm just not going to get much benefit out of a few hours at a craps table. If I hand a pit boss my TR card and say I want to be rated and then start playing $10 craps, won't he just laugh?

Thanks for the reply, and again, I'm happy to be set straight if I've got this all wrong. I would indeed get more enjoyment out of a few hours at a craps table than a VP machine.
-0.46% on VP only if you have perfect strategy down cold, and you play perfectly 100% of the time. It's work. You won't have any social interaction. Craps, your only concern is bet sizing. Just stick to pass/come with odds and avoid the sucker bets. That initial $10 bet won't impress, but likely as not you'll be on a hot roll at some point, and hopefully you'll be pressing your bets to take advantage of the hot roll, and before you know it you'll be playing at a level where you'll impress them greatly. Also, TR is not just based on points, pit bosses have a great deal of discretion as to how you are rated, toss in a bet for the boys every now and then and they will goose your rating. And you could make some friends.

The only drawback is, the Rio table minima are $10-$15, sometimes a minimum of $15, even on graveyard shift.

I've seen dice as low as $5 at RIO, though, of course YMMV.

-0.46% on VP only if you have perfect strategy down cold, and you play perfectly 100% of the time. It's work. You won't have any social interaction. Craps, your only concern is bet sizing. Just stick to pass/come with odds and avoid the sucker bets. That initial $10 bet won't impress, but likely as not you'll be on a hot roll at some point, and hopefully you'll be pressing your bets to take advantage of the hot roll, and before you know it you'll be playing at a level where you'll impress them greatly. Also, TR is not just based on points, pit bosses have a great deal of discretion as to how you are rated, toss in a bet for the boys every now and then and they will goose your rating. And you could make some friends.

This will only work if you can put in 4-6 hours of play, and get rated above a $100 average. You really want around a $150 average, to really get any future offers to kick in. With that being said, you are going to have to bet some nice coin to get it up to that point.

Not sure about going with this theory "but likely as not you'll be on a hot roll at some point" - since if we start to theorize with respect to luck, then we might as well just assume the OP will go on a 4OAK run, or possibly hit a royal flush at VP.

With regard to future room rate reductions, it's pretty much been proved that the order of preference, in the Harrah's system would be :
slots > short pay VP > full pay VP > table games

Additionally, if you get on a good run at VP/Slots you have a chance for diamond in a day; with table games that's basically an impossibility.

My summation would be that, for example,
with a $1000 bankroll, playing 25cent/50cent/$1 VP, you would be guaranteed room rates reductions (and possible free rooms) if you played short pay VP at RIO (which is all that is available at under $5 denomination),

with the same $1000 bankroll at dice, you would need to hope that you get a good group of dealers (and a pit boss to overrate you), and that you survive at the table for 4+ hours (with a rating over $100/average). This is much riskier vis-a-vis the the OP's desire for reduced room rates.

Of course, just my humble opinion. ;)