Midwest Airlines Midwest Miles (Pre-Alignment) - Which discontinued YX ammenities do you miss?

Taking the prompt from MostlyAir for some board activity...

Which YX amenities do you miss the most (excluding the obvious, such as full meal service on china, champagne, etc.)?

Signature seating

Signature seating

+1, although I realize that was an unsustainable model.

Hard to say but I believe Midwest's downfall was the replacement of the DC9 fleet with the 717 fleet. I know, the DC9's had to be replaced sooner or later, but they were probably cheap to lease or were paid for. So, I miss the DC9's... :p

In no particular order:

1) Free coffee and newspapers at the gates.
2) Alterra coffee served on-board.
3) Signature seating and extra leg-room on the DC9s (legroom was reduced on the 717s).
4) Racine kringle on the morning FRJ 328 flights.
5) Loss of Best Care Cuisine
6) Catering food at the gate during extended flight delays (Legal Seafood was provided several times in BOS during extended delays).
7) Free wine (although I've heard that the quality had gone down in later years).

Signature Seating, although the 2X1 cabin on the E190 is great.

Now if only the 319 had a 2X2 seating................................

Mostly Air, I hope your taking notes.

7) Free wine (although I've heard that the quality had gone down in later years).

With the changes to the executive program you do get free wine if you are an executive...not sure about aspire.

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Mine are the following:
1. I havent received any of these yet...from talking to other frequent flyers free signature upgrades were often sent in the mail, which makes me think that they are not doing this anymore.
2. Free check baggage, but this is an industry wide thing...Its a shame that the industry has hidden the true cost of a flight with low airfares and then sticking everyone with extras once they get to the airport.

I'll and think of more, but that is what I have now.

Signature seating.... even if I had to pay extra it was well worth it!

+1, although I realize that was an unsustainable model.

As we know well Hoss, EVERY AirTran aircraft has 12 Business Class seats available. As good as, if not better than the old Signature Seats.

Signature seating.... even if I had to pay extra it was well worth it!

By early February, Signature seats (for an upgrade fee) will be available on seven additional Midwest city pairs, bringing the total to 11. And there's more to come, so I hear.

As we know well Hoss, EVERY AirTran aircraft has 12 Business Class seats available. As good as, if not better than the old Signature Seats.

Agreed. Biz Class is a great value on AirTran. That's why I have switched almost all of my flying to FL this year. In addition to that, AirTran's team does a great job at every point of contact. Customer service, gate agents and in-flight crews have all been outstanding from my point of view.

This is just anecdotal, but it also seems like my AirTran flights are on-time (even early) a lot more often than the Midwest flights I have taken in the past. Again, I have no data to back this up other than my own experiences, but it seems like being on-time is a much bigger deal for AirTran.

As we know well Hoss, EVERY AirTran aircraft has 12 Business Class seats available.

Not anymore. By early February, 1/3 of flights sold as "AirTran" out of MKE will be on the 50-seat CRJ with no business class seats. From the passenger's perspective, this is pretty much like every other run-of-the-mill code share RJ operation. That in spite of AirTran's PR trying to spin it the other direction.

At least until more E190's come, fewer Midwest flights have premium seating than AirTran at MKE. And everybody (except Southwest) at Milwaukee uses at least some smaller aircraft with all-coach seating like the CRJ. So the RJ service itself isn't that big a deal. What does makes the black mark here (in my mind) is that AirTran has relentlessly pounded away at Midwest's reputation with claims that they are just a bunch of sub-standard regional jets sold as Midwest. That, in contrast to all-mainline AirTran, with business class and wi-fi and every flight. But now that they have a code-share CRJ regional partner who will be a major presence at their MKE hub, it's somehow different because the planes are painted in Skywest colors instead of AirTran. They still advertise that they have wi-fi on every flight.

If there was some advantage or cache for AirTran in Milwaukee derrived from having no RJ's, that's gone. Not sure if that's significant or not.

The move to bring RJ's to Milwaukee, and the financial risk sharing deal they inked with Skywest, might prove to be a fantastic turn. And as I mentioned above, having a mix of mainline and RJ aircraft only puts them (roughly) on par with...not worse than...much of their competition in Milwaukee. But it's the spin and PR, the truth-with-an-asterisk, the double standard double talk which doesn't exactly create a good impression.

That in spite of AirTran's PR trying to spin it the other direction.

As opposed to Midwest apologist's who always try to spin things in Midwest' direction?


So the RJ service itself isn't that big a deal.


You got that much right, and yet you can't resist trying to spin it as if it is a big deal. The fact is is that Air Tran is in it for the long haul in MKE. If it takes partnerships with Skywest for Air Tran to compete , in some instances, against Republic/Frontier/Midwest, so be it.


And as I mentioned above, having a mix of mainline and RJ aircraft only puts them (roughly) on par with...not worse than...much of their competition in Milwaukee. .

Republic/Midwest/Forntier needs to offer free upgrades for its executive members to the new premium seating. Maybe then it will be on a par with Air Tran.

Not anymore. By early February, 1/3 of flights sold as "AirTran" out of MKE will be on the 50-seat CRJ with no business class seats. From the passenger's perspective, this is pretty much like every other run-of-the-mill code share RJ operation. That in spite of AirTran's PR trying to spin it the other direction.


I was waiting to hear that from someone, I said, AirTran aircraft, not Skywest. Anyone that knows anything about the airline knows if they are getting on a 717/737 or CRJ.

As opposed to Midwest apologist's who always try to spin things in Midwest' direction?

Two major differences here.

First, the only so-called "apologists" (in your book) sticking up for Midwest are people like me on message boards. I'm not a paid PR person feeding the media. The AirTran stuff I find objectionable comes directly from the company. If I, as a private person on a message board, choose to post even the most inflammatory rhetoric in support of Midwest, they are not responsible for my words and it does not reflect on Midwest. The highly debatable spin and truth-with-an-asterisk statements which I take issue with, are coming directly from the company. And they as a company bear full responsibility for what they choose to say.

The other major difference is that because the output of the AirTran PR machine lives in the media forum, it's impossible for so-called "apologists" like me to battle. I stand behind what I post in these forums, and people have the opportunity to call me out on things if they disagree. What AirTran pumps into the media takes on a life of its own through the news cycle, and goes unchallenged.

To equate what "apologists" post on message boards to what AirTran officially feeds to the media is a heck of a stretch.

You got that much right, and yet you can't resist trying to spin it as if it is a big deal.

I went to significant lengths in my post to point out that the CRJ's themselves are not what I'm taking issue with here, and that this move may ultimately be a fantastic one for them. But thanks for putting the opposite words in my mouth so you could then refute them.

Republic/Midwest/Frontier needs to offer free upgrades for its executive members to the new premium seating.

I support this fully, and this is one of those differences between Midwest and Frontier which I hope will go Frontier's direction. I believe that the complementary elite upgrades should be at check in so there is an opportunity to sell anyone a signature seat before they start giving them away. But if Signature isn't full, it should be. The problem with the 40-seat Signature cabin on the 717 was that it was too large at 40 seats. This did a few bad things:

(1) Because it virtually never filled up with paid upgrades, if upgrades were free then there would be no incentive to ever pay for an upgrade. With a smaller premium section and a comparably cheap upgrade, the Signature section on the E190 sometimes sells out with paid upgrades, giving people the incentive to pay for it if you really want it.

(2) Only 45 of 99 seats were available for seat selection (regular travelers could not choose in the 40 Signature seats, the 10 exit row seats, and the four seats on the 2-side right behind exit row which were reserved for MME flyers.) What this did was make it hard for people to sit together, it sometimes caused frustrating problems with web check-in, it lead to too many people getting upgraded for free, and it lead to potential chaos and delays at the gate when the agents had sometimes dozens of people to seat and hand out boarding passes shortly before departure time. That was especially true on a quick turn when the inbound was delayed.

I don't know that the 11-seat Signature section isn't too small, but it cuts down on the counterproductive and problematic problems with the 40-seat Signature cabin.

I was waiting to hear that from someone, I said, AirTran aircraft, not Skywest. Anyone that knows anything about the airline knows if they are getting on a 717/737 or CRJ.

True enough...however not everyone knows what they are getting when they buy a ticket. Or for that matter, that it won't change between the time they buy it and the time they fly it. Plenty of CRJ flights to St Louis, Pittsburgh and Indianapolis are going out full these days with holiday travelers who bought their tickets a few months back when there were 717's and 737's in these markets.

As I've said before, however, it's not the CRJ's themselves as much as it is trying to have it both ways just as you're claiming. AirTran made a decision to sell CRJ's as their own flights just like every other airline which partners with code sharing regionals does. There is virtually no difference to the customer with the FL* deal than with UA*, NW*, etc.

You can't have it both ways. If you claim that all AirTran flights have twelve business class seats beciase the CRJ's are Skywest, then AirTran is dropping service to three Milwaukee destinations, [I]AirTran/I] is shaping up to have only nominal growth this summer over last, and AirTran doesn't need any more gates in Milwaukee...it's Skywest which is adding six destinations, Skywest which will show the growth this summer, and Skywest which can use more gate space.

Lots of options for someone flying, say, PIT-DEN include some time on a regional jet. It's not the RJ's I'm taking issue with, it's the pervasive claim that they are somehow not creating product differentiation and dilution within the brand, that they are somehow different and better than every other run-of-the-mill code sharing deal. Your post is a fine example of exactly this.

The other major difference is that because the output of the AirTran PR machine lives in the media forum, it's impossible for so-called "apologists" like me to battle. I stand behind what I post in these forums, and people have the opportunity to call me out on things if they disagree. What AirTran pumps into the media takes on a life of its own through the news cycle, and goes unchallenged.

Granted it will be hashed over in forums like this, but to the general public, they take the PR machine at verbatim and go on with their travel plans. This goes both ways. When Brophy spewed tid bits from his mouth on interviews in the news here, did most people question it like anything from FL or WN - absolutely not. They took it as the "official" word from YX. If they were not willing to sort out the truth of the matter that is their problem. YX had their own PR media machine as well.

With that said, the average person flying from MKE is not going to look at a board like this to get the real and or distorted facts. They hear that FL is going to have a second base, are adding flights and will have fares that are less expensive that what YX is offering. Based on that, they think that it will be a good thing for MKE which it is. Any business that is either coming or expanding here is good for us and I applaud ANY company that does that. The same way that when WN announces $99 fares, everyone goes wow I need to get a deal like that. But they never realize that there are restrictions on it like only 10 seats per flight -a little spin.

As I said before, people in MKE want inexpensive (OK cheap leisure fares). If FL gets that word out into the media, then YX needs to step up to the plate and put a better spin on things so that they start getting customers back. The fact remains that the spin FL is putting out there is working just fine as they are the ones getting a larger and larger market share of the MKE business. Granted it has taken FL some time from when they first started, but we all need to be realists. Take what YX has done to us in the past ie this thread and see how much they have taken away from us. Is it any wonder why there is so much competition here or why the faithful YX fliers are going elsewhere. Either way - it is about time someone stepped up to the plate because the spin YX was putting out was not worth much.
Anyhow, good discussion points.

+1, MKE1K

+2. Great post, MKE1K ^

I miss:

- A website that actually paints the screen properly, works at reasonable speed, and makes you interested in the brand. What they have now has a very generic feel, as though some entry-level web designer modified a downloadable template. Few photos, less content...I cannot imagine why they thought the current web site was an upgrade from the previous version.

- The big ol' Koss headphones offered on the MD-80s pre-2001

- The unforgettable jingle/music on hold from circa 1999. Still can't get it out of my head. (Does anyone know if that tune can be downloaded?)

- RT awards for 20,000 miles

I was recently at the dental office. The hygienist was telling me she just got back from Phoenix. As the story went on, it continued, "we were flying Midwest, but it was a Frontier plane".

The average leisure traveller seems to be confused by the cross branding. She told me she is going to Florida this winter, I told her to give AirTran a try, she'll know what kind of aircraft she is getting on, and who is operating it.

+2. Great post, MKE1K ^

Great posts Knope and MKE1K, thanks for taking the time.

As opposed to Midwest apologist's who always try to spin things in Midwest' direction?



You got that much right, and yet you can't resist trying to spin it as if it is a big deal. The fact is is that Air Tran is in it for the long haul in MKE. If it takes partnerships with Skywest for Air Tran to compete , in some instances, against Republic/Frontier/Midwest, so be it.



Republic/Midwest/Forntier needs to offer free upgrades for its executive members to the new premium seating. Maybe then it will be on a par with Air Tran.

They DO offer upgrades to executive members.

http://www.airlinemeals.net/images/meals/midwestexpress002.jpg


In a nutshell, and this is prior to the best care cuisine that you had to pay for. Also, the wine was always a nice touch.