Travel with Pets - Flying with 2 Pugs from Thailand to the US - need your help!

Sorry if this has been answered, but i could not find anything current.

I am a million miler with NW, but this is a first for me. After living in Thailand the last 8 years, I am repatriating to USA (DTW) in February. ( sad story in itself)

I will be traveling with my wife, and the company books us Business Class. We have 2 Pugs and I am trying to find if they can fly in the cabin. (the ugs, not my wife)

One is 15 pounds one is 20 pounds. I know that with kennel, that will be slightly over the 15 pounds limit on NW site. But since it is WBC, a larger size should fit under the seat. Some old posts said that fitting under the seat in a crate that allowed them to move a bit was the criteria they checked.

My question:
- Does anyone have experience traveling with small dogs/pugs for this distance?
- Does anyone have experience, will they give greater discretion on the wieght in WBC?
- Does anyone know if they can go in cabin this route at all (I read somewhere Airbus 330 wont take pets in cabin)

Any thoughts or advice appreicated, i am worried about this.

I don't have any answers for you about NW and WBC but I feel for you. I just did this in August except my 70 pound dogs were coming to Thailand. I ended up driving from Mobile, AL to LAX and putting my wife, daughter, and dogs on the non-stop Thai Airways flight for an outstanding price - I saved $3,000 over DL, KE, EVA! So it made it worth the 3 day drive. Of course dogs were in cargo.

Hopefully someone will have the answers for you but I fully understand what you are going through.

I have never traveled with a pet, so please keep that in mind when reading this.

By February 2010, it is possible that NW will be no more, and all flights will be DL. For this reason, you might wish to review DL.com information, such as the web pages starting at http://www.delta.com/planning_reservations/special_travel_needs/pet_travel_information/index.jsp.

I saw the specific reference to carry on pet restrictions in the BE cabin on A330 aircraft on NW.com's pet information web page http://www.nwa.com/travel/animals/carryonpets.html. While I couldn't find that same reference on DL.com, there is a general reference that says you must contact Delta Reservations for specific carry on kennel size limitations for your flight (from http://www.delta.com/planning_reservations/special_travel_needs/pet_travel_information/pet_travel_options/index.jsp):

Your pet must be small enough to fit comfortably in a kennel under the seat directly in front of you. Maximum carry-on kennel dimensions are determined by your flight. You must contact Delta Reservations to determine the appropriate kennel size.

You should be aware that under seat space in BE is limited on A330's, so the prohibition for pets in BE for this aircraft type does not surprise me.

On NW/DL, your route is likely BKK-NRT-DTW I would guess, which would mean an A330 BKK-NRT and a B747 for the NRT-DTW leg. I've not seen an area at NRT available to connection passengers for pet relief within the airside security area. BKK-NRT is at least a six hour flight, and NRT-DTW is over eleven hours.

From a casual reading of the available web information, it sounds to me like your only option is to ship your pets in the cargo hold, unless you wish to travel in the Y cabin for your BKK-NRT leg.

Sorry if this has been answered, but i could not find anything current.

I am a million miler with NW, but this is a first for me. After living in Thailand the last 8 years, I am repatriating to USA (DTW) in February. ( sad story in itself)

I will be traveling with my wife, and the company books us Business Class. We have 2 Pugs and I am trying to find if they can fly in the cabin. (the ugs, not my wife)

One is 15 pounds one is 20 pounds. I know that with kennel, that will be slightly over the 15 pounds limit on NW site. But since it is WBC, a larger size should fit under the seat. Some old posts said that fitting under the seat in a crate that allowed them to move a bit was the criteria they checked.

My question:
- Does anyone have experience traveling with small dogs/pugs for this distance?
- Does anyone have experience, will they give greater discretion on the wieght in WBC?
- Does anyone know if they can go in cabin this route at all (I read somewhere Airbus 330 wont take pets in cabin)

Any thoughts or advice appreicated, i am worried about this.

There was recently a long thread on flying with dogs. Here is the Delta policy

http://www.delta.com/planning_reservations/special_travel_needs/pet_travel_information/pet_travel_options/index.jsp

Here is the thread:

http://www.delta.com/planning_reservations/special_travel_needs/pet_travel_information/pet_travel_options/index.jsp

A couple of comments: you must arrange in advance for your dogs to travel. If you just show up with them, they will not be transported. Also, the fees are NOT waiveable. Also, each pet counts as one piece of carry on luggage. I will let you read the rest. hope this helps.

thanks for the help. i think you made mistake in the links, they are both the same.

1. I am aware that the pets count as carry on. I can live with that.
2. The "NW may not exist by Feb 1" - makes it even harder to plan; the delta page talks about dimensions, not weight at all.
3. As far as no pet area at NRT, my thought was the layover time is sufficient i can take them out outside then come back in through security
4. Now, i dont even know if i can trust the answer i get from NW, as they may be quoting a policy that goes away.

I dont know how to assess th A330 space question. But it does seem like cargo may be the only option. I wonder if i can send them cargo to NRT and then pick them up for the 747 ride in the cabin?

call a DL agent to get the rules. In my experience airlines will not give any leeway on weight. Your only chance is to *risk* it and hope they don't weigh the crates. At major stations they always go by the rules. You might be able to get by leaving from BKK.

If you do that, you will be screwed if they call you on it, as you need to reserve space in the hold in advance.

since pugs are at risk when they fly, my recommendation is (assuming they get along), book a single larger crate in the hold. Put an ice bed in the bottom to keep them cool while in BKK and NRT. By the time you leave NRT the ice beds won't be helping but that should get you through the risky parts of the trip.

The other element to remember is that with NW WBC nothing except a very small bag fits under the seat like in coach. The crates will most likely interfere with using your seat as a lie-flat.

Can you use a soft carrier rather than a hard one? It's been years since I travelled with a pet, but you can hold a soft carrier on your lap during the flight if your pet needs some reassurance. Also, a soft carrier looks lighter.

Can you use a soft carrier rather than a hard one? It's been years since I travelled with a pet, but you can hold a soft carrier on your lap during the flight if your pet needs some reassurance. Also, a soft carrier looks lighter.

I would recommend this as well. Domestically I have traveled with my Boston terrier who is of similar size/stature.... I actually bought a delta branded soft carrier for my terrier. That type of carrier is lighter weight and easier to deal with. I would recommend a tranquilizer from your vet for the dogs. It's a long journey and can be very stressful

I would recommend this as well. Domestically I have traveled with my Boston terrier who is of similar size/stature.... I actually bought a delta branded soft carrier for my terrier. That type of carrier is lighter weight and easier to deal with. I would recommend a tranquilizer from your vet for the dogs. It's a long journey and can be very stressful

thanks. everything i have read recommnds AGAINST a tranquilizer. Including a study that 90% of dogs dying in flight were sedated. (maybe thats cause 90% of pets were sedated? - statistics can be funny things). But especially for pugs, the advice seems to be against sedating. But that will be a horrible trip for them if they have to go cargo, i am sure.

As I moderate both the DL & TWP forums I am moving this thread over to the Travel with Pets forum where I believe you will receive the proper attention.

RSSrsvp - Moderator

Please do whatever you can to get those pugs in the cabin with you (even if it means putting the 20 pound guy on a diet). Pugs traveling in cargo is always dicey and, indeed, my understanding is that some carriers (including DL) will not even accept a pug in cargo). I have had pugs for years and am well aware of their breathing and hydration issues. You have to do some serious research as to how to transport your pugs to the U.S. Pugs are not like other dogs. They require a great deal of hydration and temperature control. Good luck. Pugs are wonderful and I can understand why you want them with you.

IMHO you are dealing with two separate and equally important issues.

NW has a 15 pound weight restriction including the kennel for carryon pets and they also do not allow them in the front cabin of their A330's.

Over the years flying on NW metal with my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel who only weighs 12 pounds I have encountered problems with NW agents when the carryon bag with the dog inside weighed over 15 pounds. In fact one time I had to empty the side pockets of the bag which contained several of my dog's items including a metal water bowl to squeeze under the 15 pound restriction when checking in for a flight for one agent who was firm on their weight requirement.

If you can overcome the 15 pound weight restriction at checkin the only way to get your dogs onboard an A330 for the BKK-NRT portion of this trip would be to sit in the Y cabin.

Frankly I would start researching other airlines for this trip and not deal with NW's strict guidelines.

BTW, Thai Airways has a 10 kg (10 kg = 22.0462 lb) weight restriction for carryon pets. The carryon bag cannot exceed 55length x 37width x 30height in centimeters.

You could book TG794 in business which is a nonstop BKK-LAX flight and they take your pugs for a walk outside security before taking a domestic flight on another carrier to DTW. Avoid the nonsense on NW all together.

I would speak to a TG agent regarding all of the above before booking.

BTW, Thai Airways has a 10 kg (10 kg = 22.0462 lb) weight restriction for carryon pets. The carryon bag cannot exceed 55length x 37width x 30height in centimeters.

You could book TG794 in business which is a nonstop BKK-LAX flight and they take your pugs for a walk outside security before taking a domestic flight on another carrier to DTW. Avoid the nonsense on NW all together.

I would speak to a TG agent regarding all of the above before booking.

thx, this is good advice. i couldnt find anything on TG website

but what you suggest allows a few more pounds. I am suprised, I thought TG also used an A330. And it can get my pets out for a walk as you say in LAX.

I will call them, thx

thx, this is good advice. i couldnt find anything on TG website

but what you suggest allows a few more pounds. I am suprised, I thought TG also used an A330. And it can get my pets out for a walk as you say in LAX.

I will call them, thx

As a pug lover, I would definitely go with TG. Good luck and let us know what you decide. Just don't let those pugs out of your sight.

thx, this is good advice. i couldnt find anything on TG website


There are three pages pertaining to pet travel hidden under special services on their site. Once again you need to not only speak to them but I recommend that you get permission in writing from a supervisor for what you wish to do so that you don't have any last minute hiccups checking in at the airport. I would also investigate who they have interline agreements with at LAX so your luggage is transferred properly although you will have to go through US Customs first.

http://www.prthaiairways.com/thaiair_4p/front/knowledge_detail.php?lg=en&dng=10

thanks. Looking at those pages about Pets in the cabin:

Passengers may bring their dog or cat on board in the cabin with the maximum weight up to 10kgs including the container not exceeding the measurements (55length x 37width x 30height in CMS)

The pet, including the container, will be charged as excess baggage.

My question here is, if they are charged as excess baggage does that mean they will weigh them? I think my Pugs are 10-11 KG without the container, so although they can fit in that size, I am going to be about 2KG over. Do you think they will make an issue of that?

I appreciate the point about getting permission from a supervisor ahead of time, but without them seeing the dog how will they do that? Or do you think i call them and say "the fit dimensions, but they are 1.5Kg over")

Or, do I just give up and ship them as Checked baggage?

Maybe the most important question is th econtainer. Is it the same container used for cabin or checked? If so, i can go to the airport and take my chanes. If the container is different then i have a problem if the agent doesnt allow in the cabin.

They talk about a container requirement for Cargo and for in cabin. But they dont specify container for checked baggage

my company has put me in touch with a company called AnimalsAway to help with my dogs move. today they wrote me the following:

Hello

As far as the pets being allowed in the cabin usual rule is they must weigh under 10 lbs, if you want to take on the flight you must make those arrangements directly with the airlines I cannot do this it is a courtesy they extend to their passengers flying with their pets.

Being pugs airlines are strict will not take them is the temperature is over 75 degrees at any point along the flight path,''

The agent in Bangkok will book the flights, I would suggest to them Lufthansa thru Frankfurt where there is an animal hotel, the dogs would be properly taken care of fed, walked and out of their kennels while waiting for their connecting flight.


Please let me know of any other concerns you have.

Susan
Animals Away

well, she appears wrong about the cabin curteousy and weight. So i question the comment about temperature.

But if correct, it is over 75 degrees in Thailand 365 days a year. How can i ever get them home?

thanks. Looking at those pages about Pets in the cabin:

Passengers may bring their dog or cat on board in the cabin with the maximum weight up to 10kgs including the container not exceeding the measurements (55length x 37width x 30height in CMS)

The pet, including the container, will be charged as excess baggage.

My question here is, if they are charged as excess baggage does that mean they will weigh them? I think my Pugs are 10-11 KG without the container, so although they can fit in that size, I am going to be about 2KG over. Do you think they will make an issue of that?

I appreciate the point about getting permission from a supervisor ahead of time, but without them seeing the dog how will they do that? Or do you think i call them and say "the fit dimensions, but they are 1.5Kg over")

Or, do I just give up and ship them as Checked baggage?

Maybe the most important question is th econtainer. Is it the same container used for cabin or checked? If so, i can go to the airport and take my chanes. If the container is different then i have a problem if the agent doesnt allow in the cabin.

They talk about a container requirement for Cargo and for in cabin. But they dont specify container for checked baggage

Most people use a soft carryon bag when in cabin as they are easier to carry and weigh less. You need to use a hard type kennel when you check your pet. Check out companies like Sherpa that sell soft carryon bags for the weights and dimensions.

as always, thank you.

my company has put me in touch with a company called AnimalsAway to help with my dogs move. today they wrote me the following:

Hello

As far as the pets being allowed in the cabin usual rule is they must weigh under 10 lbs, if you want to take on the flight you must make those arrangements directly with the airlines I cannot do this it is a courtesy they extend to their passengers flying with their pets.

Being pugs airlines are strict will not take them is the temperature is over 75 degrees at any point along the flight path,''

The agent in Bangkok will book the flights, I would suggest to them Lufthansa thru Frankfurt where there is an animal hotel, the dogs would be properly taken care of fed, walked and out of their kennels while waiting for their connecting flight.


Please let me know of any other concerns you have.

Susan
Animals Away

well, she appears wrong about the cabin curteousy and weight. So i question the comment about temperature.

But if correct, it is over 75 degrees in Thailand 365 days a year. How can i ever get them home?

As obscure2k who is a pug owner has already stated try to keep them in cabin and avoid checking them if possible. It can be dicey for a pug to be checked.

Lufthansa is not a viable option for in cabin as they have an 8 kilogram limit including the bag.

You may take a dog or cat into the cabin, if the weight of the animal (including transport container) does not exceed eight kilograms. The animal has to be kept in a box measuring not more than
55 x 40 x 20 cm. You may use your own transport box if it has the necessary measurement and is watertight and bite proof. In addition, Lufthansa offers you a "Pet Box" for most stations at the check-in counters free of charge.

Also have you considered a trip to the airport in BKK and offering the station chief for TG a late Christmas present?

i should have thought of the xmas present. That is what makes Thailand work after all. thx

If you pursue this approach I would find out who the person is that you need to make your "appeal" to and do this well in advance of booking your flight to avoid any last minute hiccups. @:-)

sad sad conclusion to this. I came back to america in February. My wife had to stay behind a few months. This past week she was scheduled to ship the dogs in cargo, with the animal shipping company my company hired on monday then my wife on tuesday.

So monday around noon they picked up the 2 pugs. took them to the airport. cleared the vet, cleared customs and were handed off to KLM. Around 4PM, she got a call. One of the pugs had died. at the airport, waiting to board.

We are devastated. The other pug doesnt fit in the regulation pet carrier. I wont ship him as cargo. I am going to try to bring him anyway in the cabin. Also i got her a letter about her need for emotional support animal. So, it could not be worse.

One dog died. Trying to find a way to get the second pug and my wife home. And the civil war in Thailand complicates everything even more.

Never again for cargo

My heart goes out to you. Needless to say we all wish for their safe transit out of Thailand. ^

sad sad conclusion to this. I came back to america in February. My wife had to stay behind a few months. This past week she was scheduled to ship the dogs in cargo, with the animal shipping company my company hired on monday then my wife on tuesday.

So monday around noon they picked up the 2 pugs. took them to the airport. cleared the vet, cleared customs and were handed off to KLM. Around 4PM, she got a call. One of the pugs had died. at the airport, waiting to board.

We are devastated. The other pug doesnt fit in the regulation pet carrier. I wont ship him as cargo. I am going to try to bring him anyway in the cabin. Also i got her a letter about her need for emotional support animal. So, it could not be worse.

One dog died. Trying to find a way to get the second pug and my wife home. And the civil war in Thailand complicates everything even more.

Never again for cargo

I am so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine your devastation and grief . I know well, that pugs really love to be with other dogs. I hope that you will find one who will bond nicely with your surviving pug and your family.

Let me add my sympathies for your loss, lucky6666. It is so hard to lose a pet under any circumstance but this has to be extraordinarily difficult given all of your understandable fears. Out of curiosity and perhaps to assist future pet owners arranging transport, did the company explain how in the world your dog died even before getting on the plane?

Let me add my sympathies for your loss, lucky6666. It is so hard to lose a pet under any circumstance but this has to be extraordinarily difficult given all of your understandable fears. Out of curiosity and perhaps to assist future pet owners arranging transport, did the company explain how in the world your dog died even before getting on the plane?

No, they could not explain. They assured me the dogs were kept in an airconditioned waiting area for the flight. I can only guess that either they were left outside in the Bangkok heat. Or...I cant guess

Now i just want to get Jacky back