Air Canada Aeroplan - champagne...

Flew ZHR-YYZ on Thursday. One of the FA's said that they are to no longer serve champagne (in J) prior to departure on that route but that FRA-YYZ they do serve it. She said that their 'monopoly' routes are having 'cut backs' in service.

Dorian

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This doesn't strike me as very logical. 32 baby glasses of champagne cost, at worst, about CAD 150. Total annual cost no more than 55K CAD. Since half the people in J will usually consume mineral water pre-take off, anyway, the cost consequence is not significant. (Especially when they are stocking champagne on board anyway).

I think the explanation is far more likely that the Swiss are imposing punitive duties on opening bottles on the ground.

In order to keep the bar stock exempt from duty and excise taxes, the seals can't come off until the aircraft is off the ground, and the seals have to go back on before landing.

That means that for pre-departure drinks the airline has to either buy it locally (duty and tax paid) or else they have to pay excise and duty on the stock that they have brought in and intend to serve while on the ground.

For stations like LHR and CDG where there is an MLL, it is easy. The airline has to stock that bar anyway, so they just source the extra cases they need. For FRA, they might have a deal with LH on catering procurement (or else they send over the product they have sourced elsewhere in the Common Market).

But ZRH is not an alliance hub, and it is not in the Common Market, which probably makes the logistics more difficult.

Very interesting insights and a very plausible explanation! Impressive!

Dorian

Of course, that explanation wouldn't explain why CP has now stopped serving pre-flight beverages on domestic flights. These are non-alcholic beverages -- water, and a alternative of iced tea, orange juice, or cran-apple juice, depending on the season. 24 glasses of this stuff shouldn't cost more than a dollar or two per flight, when purchased in bulk.

Same applies to the lack of pre-landing candies, only I'd imagine the cost of those would be pennies per flight. Pretty sad, given that the worst of the worst, Northworst, still offers these "benefits."

Has this happened on AC domestic as well.

At end of February AC was still serving pre-flight drinks on transcontinental runs.

Flying YYZ-ZRH 2nite...will see what they do there...supposedly champagne service is terminated on this route...

Dorian

Domestically--there's not much excuse.

If I was being generous and understanding, I might allow for an Einstein excuse (i.e. time and space). On a 767, with a longer boarding period, two aisles and a galley with two routes of access, you can more effectively fawn on J pax than on an A320 with one aisle, one access route, and almost as many pax (24 as opposed to 36/35/25).

However, if I was being cynical (as is often my wont) I would chalk it up to parsimoniousness and a general decline in service.

Just flew YYZ-YEG in J on Cdn and there was no pre-flight drink, as KH has noted. Chatted with flight attendent who was also disappointed they no longer do the French service with the main course. She said she really enjoyed it. And from tonight's meal, it only reinforces the reality that vegetables can only be made properly in flight when cooked separately and added to the plate, not when reheated with the main course on a single plate. Glad I got to enjoy a final taste of the full service on the 29th. Now we're all being brought down to AC's mediocre service standards!

They served champagne on pre-flight on YYZ-ZRH I just got off of.

Dorian

Let us know what happens on the way back...

[I hope this isn't the start of a three month project or anything http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif ]

AC...that was the way back! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dorian

'the swiss' just abolished (per july-1-1999) all discriminatory (formerly directed against imports, to protect local viniculture) alcoholic taxes/duties for spirits and all alcoholic beverages http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So, the timing for giving up serving champagne on the ground, when departing from Switzerland, isn't very logic http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

... and I wouldn't mind to have a bigger turnover of champagne-deliveries to ZRH-airport ... so please inform your airline and ask for it - thank you.

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So I think the conclusion from this thread is that Dorian's experience was a one-off.

Further, it appears to me that the explanation offered to Dorian by the FA was a rational conjecture established by the interlocutor in relation to certain circumstances to create an impression of verisimilitude whereas, in fact, assessing the response--in light of more objective criteria--against standards of factual accuracy and veracity reveals certain lacunae which are not amenable to consistent explanation.

Which is diplomatic speak for, "She made it up."

AC*SE LOL http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

AC*SE! Outstanding! I still like you 1st explanation though....it was so well thought out and plausible!

Dorian

Deep down in every public servant's heart resides the spirit of Sir Humphrey Appleby (q.v. "Yes, Minister"

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Regarding the lack of ground Champagne service on the ground ZRH YYZ, the flight attendant queried provided you with incorrect info. Out of many international destinations, such as Zurich, bar seals are not allowed to be broken on the ground. To circumvent this stipulation, the caterer usually boards separate bottles of duty paid Champagne. Perhaps in this instance the caterer did not board these bottles.
Within North American, Air Canada has eliminated the Executive Class ground beverage service. This includes juice, water and champagne. Does one really need to receive a beverage on the ground when one probably just left the Maple Leaf lounge. The flight attendant group has a difficult time providing all of the ground delivered business class services, while complying with Transport Canada regulations. The regulations stipulate that all service related functions, including picking up the empty glasses, must be completed prior to push back. If these regulations are not adhered to, the flight attendant could be fined by Transport Canada and disciplined by the airline. In addition, there are usually, more business class seats in aircraft configured for North American services, but not more flight attendants to deliver the service. I hope this helps

please don't ruin my beverage business http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

It is a basic human gesture worldwide to offer an arriving guest something to drink http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I didn't know they canned ground drinks in J for domestic service!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Dorian

But truth to tell, I can live without a glass of mineral water before takeoff.

On my last 4 YYZ-ZRH-YYZ round trips, (Feb and March 2000) there have been NO amenity kits on the aircraft for J passengers, either way. I do think there are cutbacks going on.

I have not paid any attention to the beverages - I always bring my own big plastic bottle of Valser water with me, because AC does not carry sparkling mineral water, except sometimes a few cans of Perrier.

thank you for buying/drinking Valser (sparkling mineral water). That's really us delivering it to the Zurich airport caterers http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Valser (mineral water) is owned by Mr Donald Hess who is also the owner of the (winery) Hess Collection in the Napa Valley (with a great modern art museaum there too).

I have been on the ZRH-YYZ route 3 times this year...all times without an amenity kit (though I barely noticed).

The FA's say they are being redesigned so they ran out...and will soon be back on the route....

We'll see I guess!

Dorian

The amenities kits are being redesigned.While current supplies are being depleted, items such as toothbrushes, shavers, eyeshades and sockettes are boarded individually. Just a reminder the amenity kit is technically designed as an overnight kit. They are not offered on daytime flights, such as ZRH YYZ, but would be offered on the eastbound overnight leg.

Rudi:

You are really going to get a laugh from this: I have developed a liking for Valser, which is, regrettably, not sold here in Canada. Whenever I travel Canada to ZRH, I usually carry some big plastic bins with books in them to give out to the students I teach in ZRH. At the end of the week, I bring the (empty) bins back to Toronto.

I have found that PickPay in Kloten has Valser water on sale about once a month - in the 1.5 liter PET bottles - so whenever they do have a sale, I buy about 48 bottles, pack them into 4 plastic bins, and check them in as "checked luggage" - AC is nice enough to give SE members 4 checked articles each flight.

Last week, the check in agent in ZRH asked what was in the 4 boxes (total weight about 100 kg/220 pounds) - when I told her it was all just bottled water, she suggested Air Canada would probably buy Perrier for me free and deliver it to my home in Toronto, if I just stopped plugging up their cargo holds with Valser....

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It is interesting that AC sees amenity kits in Business class as frills, and that providing toothbushes and razors in the lavatory is enough on an overnight flight. While this very utilitarian/spartan approach might seem logical, marketing a "first class product" is not based on logic alone. The amenity kit in First and Business is now a basic, no matter how poor the contents and container may be. I realize that many travellers who ply these international routes several times monthly tend to leave them behind when deplaning, and may regard them is unncessary frills, but...

Would a world class airline offer a boxed sandwhich meal in First or Business as the only meal service?

I am appauled to think AC has taken this position. I have found the kits handed out over the past few years have been lacking in character, but this need not be the case. Having just come back from flying BA's First services, I have a number of very useful cases -- not to mention their contents -- which can be given as gifts (always well received by women friends) or used to store small items in for safe packing in my shoulder bag: the old Cdn F-class case holds my DV camera and previous BA kits the various cables and chargers that go with it. I even use one of AC's old leather ones to hold the cables and chargers for my laptop.

I have also used an old AC Business Class fabric bag, filled with the "best of many amenity kit items", for more than10-years now, to hold those essentials for overnight flights.

It just seems to me, skimping on such items when one has paid $3,000+ to fly in the front cabin says something about an airline. And to me it is not positive. At one time AC also laid on little travel or other gift items in both First and Business class on international flights. That may have been overdoing it, but this certainly is not what I expect when I fly in the front cabin overseas.

Seems to me like this is not the area that a "classy" business would want to cut costs. Maybe Milty is sending us a message.

Well, it is a "classic" approach in one sense -- the classic bean-counter/Henry Ford "Any colour they want as long as it's black" approach.

To me it's just an extension of the lack of pre-flight beverages and pre-landing candies. People may laugh about the candies, but sucking on them while descending helps reduce sinus pressure, and also alleviates the dry mouth from airplane air that cannot really be alleviated with a beverage while deplaning. And I can't imagine that the cost of the candies totals any more than about 1c per customer. (One of these days, I'm going to leave for the airport early enough to stop by a 7-11 and buy a bag of candies. I'll pass them out on the plane myself, when the time comes. Maybe we could start a new fad: self-service airlines.)

I think it's fair to say that AC has no expectation of winning the OAG award next year. And compared to other "world class" airlines (and even some other lesser airlines, like Northwest) the AC product is becoming more and more tarnished by the day.

Maybe we should all get together on one flight and one of us will serve other pre flight drinks and pre flight Candy... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I can bring the sparkling mineral water...

Maxpower....... I've seen those....always wondered why. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

See you around.

YYZAC

P.S. I work around Gates 103 to 115 come in contact with 879,878,857,856,873,872,881,880.
See alot of RICE too.

YYZAC...

You know how many of us likely know you?! For sure I would have seen you lots!

Dorian

Dorian,

I'm the guy with the smile in the green uniform! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

And you are the person with the black LIGHT bag right? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Always a pleasure!

YYZAC

[This message has been edited by YYZAC (edited 03-24-2000).]

YYZAC.... LIGHT bag? nope.....


Dorian

OFF TOPIC!

Max,

I tried Valser this past weekend in Zurich. I can't tell the difference between it and San Pelligrino (sorry Rudi).

Dorian

Dorian: don't be sorry, we distribute all kind of mineral waters in/around Zurich, this includes San Pellegrino (which is owned by Perrier, which is owned by Nestlé ...) , which has about the double amount of bubbles (CO2) than Valser.

Prosit!

Rudi...

When you say "we" do you mean you do this? If so that is great...I am moving to Zurich at the end of May...to Kusnacht...and am addicted to Pelligrino/Valser type waters.

Dorian

you are welcome - the company is just on your way from Küsnacht to Zurich (at the Tiefenbrunnen-railway-station = the last station in the town of Zurich, 5 car minutes from the Küsnacht community).

Restaurants in Küsnacht:
*** Petermann's Kunststube (very expensive, rated in the Guide Michelin and the Gault&Millaut as one of Switzerland's top 10 Restaurants).
* Zur Rebe (Ceccarelli): italian, my favorite (closed Monday/Tuesday).

Be my guest for a lunch at Ceccarelli, when you made it to Kusnacht

Küsnacht is one of Switzerland's 'tax-heavens' on the so-called "Gold Coast" of the lake of Zurich - Tina Turner just made Küsnacht her permanent place a year ago. Beside the East-North shore of the lake of Geneva (Montreux-Lausanne) this is one of the most wanted places to live (it shows when you look at the prices for renting or buying properties).

Interesting! We have breakfast at Sonne or Bermuda each Sat. and Sunday while we plan our internet startup.

Sounds like I am lucky to have a paid-for apartment in Kusnacht!!

Dorian

Update on international standard service lapses: no coats are hung up on 330s. Apparently flight crew fear items may be stolen from pockets since cupboards are at the rear of the SuperExec cabin and cannot be "policed". This means not only are there no overhead stowage cabinets over the centre aisle, everything including coats and jackets must be put in the limited space along the sides!

Yes, there was a pre-flight champagne, orange juice or water selection out of LHR, but no amenity kits in either direction, and no tooth brushes or razors going across the Atlantic eastbound.

And, of course no fresh air...

Dorian:

Give me a holler next time you are in ZRH - I live in Kloten (you know where THAT is!), maybe Rudi and I can form a welcoming committee.