Russia - St. Petersburg to Moscow Train

Hi,
I need to take a train from St. Petersburg to Moscow at the end of November. I will either take a night train (9 hours) or an express train (4.5 hours). I am travelling alone and will have one regular piece of luggage plus one carryon style piece of luggage.

I am wondering what the recommendations are between the night and the express train. The drawback of the express train is that it leaves early in the morning so I might have to taxi it to the station, however the plus is that I presume its faster and safer than a night train.

How safe are the night trains? When travelling in company I usually get a sleeper car but now sharing a sleeper car (3 sleepers) with people I don't know is kind of weird. Also I don't know for documents, cameras, etc I easily doze off.

Not that this is a phobia that has to do with anything in Russia - I am just making assumptions knowing what the trains are like in Serbia.

Thanks!

Night trains are absolutely fine. I shared a compartment with 3 strangers many, many times and never felt threatened.

If you can sleep on the train and/or have to pay exorbitant sums for hotels at either end of the line - absolutely go for the night train. Even the cheapest ones - i.e. those that originate or end elsewhere and only pass through Moscow or StPete en route - would be perfectly acceptable.

Oh, and by the way - the fast express train leaves in the afternoon. I can't think of any departing in the morning... Which one do you mean?

I am wondering what the recommendations are between the night and the express train. The drawback of the express train is that it leaves early in the morning so I might have to taxi it to the station, however the plus is that I presume its faster and safer than a night train.

Both options are fine and equally safe (though I would have gone for the first class ticket on a night train and standard class on the express). If you opt for a night train, I'd recommend the Red Arrow service (trains number 001 and 002). THey are quite cozy and pretty historic - I reckon there's a story on this service in Wikipedia.
Shame you are travelling in November. I reckon they'll be launching a new express train to St. Pete in mid December (under 4 hours) with departures at 7 am, 2 pm and 7 pm.
G'luck with your travel!

though I would have gone for the first class ticket on a night train

If the OP is wary of having to put up with 3 strangers, they probably wouldn't want to lock themselves up for the night with one. (All the 1st class compartments are 2-bed and how can one be sure of having one to himself short of paying for both seats or booking within 1 hour of departure when you get seats out of the last-minute/VIP quota?)

I like the daytime express trains (especially the Alexandr Nevsky). I've done the night trains gobs and gobs of times and here are my issues:

1) In the winter, the compartments are kept boiling hot and there is no way for you to adjust the temperature.

2) While I sleep great while the train is moving, the overnight trains all have stops in the middle of nowhere where they sit for 20-30 minutes. This always causes me to wake with a start, then sit there unable to get back to sleep as you can hear the coughing a wheezing of everyone in your wagon (not just your compartment).

If a morning express starts in December this would be awesome. My only beef with the expresses right now is their times.

Oh, and by the way - the fast express train leaves in the afternoon. I can't think of any departing in the morning... Which one do you mean?

You are right it seems that this one does not depart on Sunday. I will be taking the 12:40 or the 1:40 but according to my friend it is sold out on the Nov 29th (can't believe Russians book that much in advance).

The real question is should I do 2nd class or platzkart. Platzkart seems temping but I am afraid I am going to regret it.

You are right it seems that this one does not depart on Sunday. I will be taking the 12:40 or the 1:40 but according to my friend it is sold out on the Nov 29th (can't believe Russians book that much in advance).

The real question is should I do 2nd class or platzkart. Platzkart seems temping but I am afraid I am going to regret it.

Don't be cheap, go with the good cabin.

2) While I sleep great while the train is moving, the overnight trains all have stops in the middle of nowhere where they sit for 20-30 minutes. This always causes me to wake with a start, then sit there unable to get back to sleep as you can hear the coughing a wheezing of everyone in your wagon (not just your compartment).I've not experienced this (or perhaps I just slept through it) ...except once when we stopped in Tver due to signal issues and the AC stopped working (it only works when the train is moving).

If you choose an overnight train, I'd suggest the Red Arrow -- make sure to listen to the music they play on the platform as the train pulls out of the station!

Our firm has offices in Moscow and St Petersburg, so for the regular trip, we've done just about every variation including:
-driving. Not recommended.
-flying: from VKO to LED in a Yak-40 (slooooooow), flying from SVO-LED (hassle)
-overnight train (Red Arrow, my supplier and I scored a disabled cabin for two) since we were both foreigners
-that super luxury overnight train (business partner and I) in the biggest cabin with own bathroom with shower and roomservice. Bit steep at USD1,100 for two.
-Express train (left at 18.00, arrived at 22.30).

The Express Train is the way to go. Fast enough, arrives at a reasonable time to make it to the hotel etc.

As for safety, well, I personally never had any problems. But we had five staffers on that infamous train that derailed at 200km/h (due to suspected bomb). Luckily, nobody was injured.

NG1Fan

-overnight train (Red Arrow, my supplier and I scored a disabled cabin for two) since we were both foreigners

I read rave things about this train but it's a bit over my budget as I am unemployed and traveling for leisure. My friend booked me a KUPE on the overnight train for $48 I think it's going to be ok, it's nice that it spares a night of lodging as well I will get into Moscow early in the morning and make my way slowly to the hotel.

I also have taken the Red Arrow (Krasnaya Strela)...I think it may be the nicest regular sleeper train but its nothing super special. I would take it again. I don't recall it being significantly more expensive than the others though. You have to pay for sheets though...beware.

I'd suggest planning your wait time at the Saint Petersburg train depot. It is huge and interesting and even has a small grocery store and lockers.

HOWEVER, the ladies' room is a pay-per-use, and was the only floor level facility I encountered in Russia. Not the high point in my trip. That visit would be best done elsewhere before you get to the depot. Don't know about the men's facilities.

Romelle

I did love the train trip though. Slept well, had polite, considerate and helpful roommates, and a really lovely cabin. The Red Arrow was booked, but it was the other low number one - #3 I think.

I'd suggest planning your wait time at the Saint Petersburg train depot. It is huge and interesting and even has a small grocery store and lockers.

HOWEVER, the ladies' room is a pay-per-use, and was the only floor level facility I encountered in Russia. Not the high point in my trip. That visit would be best done elsewhere before you get to the depot. Don't know about the men's facilities....

"Floor level facility?"

Do you perhaps mean hole-in-the-ground toilets? ;)

Here are a couple of other (recent) threads on the Moscow - St. Petersburg train route:

www.flyertalk.com/forum/russia/962548-moscow-st-petersburg-flight-night-train.html

www.flyertalk.com/forum/russia/943411-cost-train-moscow-st-pete.html

....As for safety, well, I personally never had any problems. But we had five staffers on that infamous train that derailed at 200km/h (due to suspected bomb). Luckily, nobody was injured.

:eek:

That's terrible! Your staffers may not have been physically injured (much), but watch out for possible psychological trauma. An occurrence like that can really haunt someone for a long time.

(I'm assuming you mean the train bombing that occurred just 2 - 3 days ago.)

In browsing through past threads on this forum, I found there was another such incident on that line just a little over two years ago (August 2007). Rather scary.

(I'm assuming you mean the train bombing that occurred just 2 - 3 days ago.)


No. The post is from Nov 22. The accident happened after that date.

No. The post is from Nov 22. The accident happened after that date.

You're right! Should have checked the posting date. So the incident referred to was the one in August 2007. And now we have another. :eek:

Not trying to scare anyone off using this train. It wouldn't necessarily prevent me from doing so. A lot of places in western Europe, where I've traveled frequently, have been the periodic targets of terrorist activity -- including while I was visiting (bombing on RER in Paris, for example). Not to mention Israel.

Extraordinary for people to be in any way put off travel by rail or air by very occasional accidents, whether they be terrorism or mechanical issues. Both are extremely rare.

In contrast there are 31,000 fatalities per year on Russian roads. Nobody writing here seems to suggest not travelling by car/bus, or not walking alongside roads.

Extraordinary for people to be in any way put off travel by rail or air by very occasional accidents, whether they be terrorism or mechanical issues. Both are extremely rare.

In contrast there are 31,000 fatalities per year on Russian roads. Nobody writing here seems to suggest not travelling by car/bus, or not walking alongside roads.

I wouldn't say it's "extraordinary" to be put off by terrorism incidents -- I think it's pretty common, in fact! ;) (I suspect that the word "extraordinary" has a different shade of meaning in some parts -- but here in the US the word wouldn't generally be used that way.)

The word I would use would be more like "irrational." Anyhow, I agree with your sentiment, in principle. But it does seem that two deadly incidents of terrorism (?) on the very same rail line within the span of a little over two years is something more than "extremely rare." Or should I say "less than extremely rare?"

But it does seem that two deadly incidents of terrorism (?) on the very same rail line within the span of a little over two years is something more than "extremely rare."

Umm, actually only the recent incident resulted in human casualties. No one was killed or injured when this train derailed 2 years ago.

Umm, actually only the recent incident resulted in human casualties. No one was killed or injured when this train derailed 2 years ago.

No deaths -- you're right!

No injuries -- utter nonsense. The August 13, 2007 derailment (caused by an explosive device) injured dozens of passengers. (According to one account, 60 out of the 251 passengers were injured.)

I know it's a bizarre coincidence but the day after I posted my comments above, discovered a business contact in St Petersburg was on the train, returning to St Pete on Friday afternoon after meetings in Moscow, in the most affected car (number 2, numbered from the rear), and was in hospital. They are going to be fine but are of course somewhat shaken by the whole thing.

The possessions left behind in the wrecked cars were gathered together, it seems quite efficiently, and available after a couple of days at the standard railway Lost & Found in St Petersburg Moskovsky station !

I still say that it is extraordinary to know someone involved in such an incident, I have never known anyone to be involved in a railway accident before. In contrast 2 out of 28 of my High School class in the UK were dead in separate road accidents within 3 years of finishing school, and none of us were in any way put off driving.

The fast train leaves in the late afternoon 4ish. Not in the morning.

The night trains are fine and cheap. Maybe bring toilet paper if you are in a 4 bed. 2 beds seem to include it :)