Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - WSJ: Lufthansa To Launch A380 on FRA-JFK

DJN: *WSJ: Lufthansa To Launch A380 On Frankfurt-NYC Route - CEO

By Scott McCartney
Of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

FRANKFURT (Dow Jones--The head of Deutsche Lufthansa AG (LHA.XE) said Friday
that the German carrier will inaugurate its Airbus A380 super jumbo on
service between Frankfurt and New York next year.
Chief Executive Wolfgang Mayrhuber said the German airline had evaluated 12
markets from its Frankfurt hub for the new aircraft -- including Tokyo,
Shanghai, Johannesburg and Los Angeles -- before opting for New York.
Lufthansa is the second European customer for the A380, following Air
France-KLM, which will start service with the aircraft from Paris to New
York later this month.
(This story and related background material will be available on The Wall
Street Journal Web site, WSJ.com.)
The launches come as A380 customers, including Lufthansa and British Airways
PLC (BAIRY, BAY.LN), examine ways to defer some deliveries of the A380 and
other aircraft because of the global downturn in passenger and freight
traffic.
Emirates Airline, the Dubai-based launch customer for the A380, dropped the
large-capacity aircraft from its Dubai-New York service earlier this year
because of weak traffic, particularly high-yielding business passengers.
Mayrhuber, speaking to a group of frequent fliers from the online community
FlyerTalk.com, said Lufthansa will take delivery of its first A380 next
spring and have the double-deck aircraft in service beginning with its
summer schedule.
Mayrhuber said the A380, which carries about 500 passengers when outfitted
with three classes of service, will replace one 330-passenger Boeing 747
trip between New York´s Kennedy International Airport and Frankfurt.
Passenger feed from JetBlue Airways Corp. (JBLU), in which Lufthansa now
owns a 20% stake, may help Lufthansa grow in New York, "but this was not the
reason" to start the A380 in the New York market, he said.

So which flights will the A380 be used on, LH400/401 or LH404/405?

I'm curious because I currently have F award seats on LH405 in July.

So which flights will the A380 be used on, LH400/401 or LH404/405?

I'm curious because I currently have F award seats on LH405 in July.

there were some posts earlier were people said that 400/401 might the first candidate since that route was the first one to see the new business class, i do have some flights booked for summer also on 404/405 so i wouldnt mind to see a380 on those flights

Wow, Flyertalkers met the Wolf :D

Wow, Flyertalkers met the Wolf :D

Antinori also confirmed that New F will have 8 seats.

Yes, it would be useful to know if it will be 401 or 405 as I al booking F awards as well for late May...

Antinori also confirmed that New F will have 8 seats.
Any word about the rollout plan for existing fleet?

747 fleet will be refitted progressively (whatever that means?) too but not with the A380 F seat.

The thread title is awfully wrong.

The thread title is awfully wrong.

True. It made me assume that the FRA-CDG route would be the trial route for testing the A380 until it will be put on a permanent route (JFK). Basically instead of sending it between MUC and FRA (rumor)

DJN: *WSJ: Lufthansa To Launch A380 On Frankfurt-Paris Route -

And that would have made it TWO of its kind at Roissy T1 :eek: Amazing for a terminal which sees way toooo much LH Régional.

Antinori also confirmed that New F will have 8 seats.
He also said 744 would have PTV in Economy if he could persuade others in the company. (Sorry, wrong thead but I can't find the correct one easily.)

The thread title is awfully wrong.
I was there and also found the title confusing.

Time to speculatively book a bunch of F awards towards the end of the schedule JFK-FRA...

Antinori also confirmed that New F will have 8 seats.

This would be bad new for awards.

that the German carrier will inaugurate its Airbus A380 super jumbo on
service between Frankfurt and New York next year.


Not surprising news. Everyone was expecting JFK to be the first LH destination to recieve the A380.

What is important now is to know which date the service will start and what flight number ?

Antinori also confirmed that New F will have 8 seats.

Unbelievable config in First class for such a huge whale. How come they reduce the number of seats in first class from 16 seats onboard the 744 to only 8 seats on such huge airplane :td:

The thread title is awfully wrong.

Yep and hence I changed it ;) Anyway thanks for sharing…

Best,

totti
M&M moderator

747 fleet will be refitted progressively (whatever that means?) too but not with the A380 F seat.

Maybe to all C and than to market it as a great enhancement :p

Mayrhuber said the A380, which carries about 500 passengers when outfitted
with three classes of service,

Very interesting.

LH is known to have talked about 550 - setting a record on A380 and surpassing 538 of Air France.

Unbelievable config in First class for such a huge whale. How come they reduce the number of seats in first class from 16 seats onboard the 744 to only 8 seats on such huge airplane

Easily. No one has yet had 16 R seats on A380. SQ had 12, EK and QF have 14, and AF has managed to reduce it to 9.

LH plans are to have First in front of upper deck, right? Like Emirates?

Ahead of the first upper deck doors, SQ has 18 J seats (4 and a half rows of 4 abreast - J continues behind), EK has 14 R suites (3 and a half rows of 4 abreast), QF has 18 J seats (3 rows at 6 abreast - J continues behind) and AF has 26 J seats (4 and a half rows at 6 abreast - J continues behind).

8 seats of First, 2 rows at 4 abreast, would be plausible, and resemble the LH A340 First. Although on A380, both QF and EK get at least 3 rows of full flat seats there - what features will LH R have?

Unbelievable config in First class for such a huge whale. How come they reduce the number of seats in first class from 16 seats onboard the 744 to only 8 seats on such huge airplane :td:
The plan was and is to make LH First as exclusive as possible and provide it mainly for paid tickets only. Awards and upgrades are not welcome anymore, although they will probably stay available. But very limited, maybe on short notice only, probably for more miles, maybe for SEN/HON only, ...

And keep in mind, 8 pax can be served by 2 FAs. More require a third FA (at least per todays definiton) and that is extra labour cost for LH.

... maybe for SEN/HON only, ...
Antinori strongly hinted that F awards might be limited by status.

I assume that the average M&M customer (status aside) usually books C awards. As long as they stay available the way they are now, most customers will not be unhappy.

Now, it will be interesting to see if awards in the same cabin cost differently among different aircraft types.
Let's say LH400/401 stays B747 and LH404/405 becomes A380, most customers (who care) will try to get on the newer aircraft, therefore higher demand.

Unbelievable config in First class for such a huge whale. How come they reduce the number of seats in first class from 16 seats onboard the 744 to only 8 seats on such huge airplane :td:

My thought as well.

EK = 16
SQ = 12
QF = 14
LH = 8

Bye bye easy F awards I would say.

I assume that the average M&M customer (status aside) usually books C awards.

I think the average M&M customer books Y.

I think the average M&M customer books Y.

As an award?

Okay, maybe some base members. But lots of FTLs and SENs are okay with business awards and don't go for FC awards.

Bye bye easy F awards I would say.
It will probably be catching C awards in the beginning and based on ones status get waitlisted for F awards. May clear a day for departure (outbound and inbound separate, of course) and require a 50 EUR rebooking fee twice and per pax.

Worked that way for me already this year, since we were flying on very popular and fully overbooked flights. I would be okay with that approach.

It will probably be catching C awards in the beginning and based on ones status get waitlisted for F awards. May clear a day for departure (outbound and inbound separate, of course) and require a 50 EUR rebooking fee twice and per pax.

Worked that way for me already this year, since we were flying on very popular and fully overbooked flights. I would be okay with that approach.

How does this approach affect C awards? So the customers gets upgraded into F, will the open C spot open as award on short notice as well?

Antinori strongly hinted that F awards might be limited by status.

And limited to LH only status - not *G !

Maybe to all C and than to market it as a great enhancement :p

Which it would be. By my guesstimate, it means reducing seat count from 330 to about 190.

And keep in mind, 8 pax can be served by 2 FAs. More require a third FA (at least per todays definiton) and that is extra labour cost for LH.

Meaning 16 pax require a fourth FA?

Now, it will be interesting to see if awards in the same cabin cost differently among different aircraft types.
Let's say LH400/401 stays B747 and LH404/405 becomes A380, most customers (who care) will try to get on the newer aircraft, therefore higher demand.

But there already is issue with different number and quality of F on different frames.

B747 - 16 available F

A330/A340 - just 8 F available.

B747 - 4 seats abreast cramped into a 747 upper deck, less spacious than 737. Single aisle, no window seat aisle access. Restricted headroom.

A330/A340 - also 4 abreast. But on a widebody - two aisles, all seats aisle access, plentiful headroom.

Do LH passengers try to get First awards on A330/A340 rather than 747?

EK = 16
SQ = 12
QF = 14
LH = 8

Corrected already. Again:

EK = 14
SQ = 12
QF = 14
AF = 9
LH = 8

Wow, Flyertalkers met the Wolf :D
Yep, hearing the Wolf articulating the word "enhancements" was priceless! ^:D
Joking aside, I think he was very impressive. The highlight of the day.
He also said 744 would have PTV in Economy if he could persuade others in the company.
Nah, this is typical marketing lingo within all corporations. "We are the good guys, we want to offer you stuff but, you know, those bean counters..."
Antinori strongly hinted that F awards might be limited by status.
Actually he sounded pretty determined about it. He (claimed that he) is just trying to find the proper way to implement this. Very correct in its philosophy and fair, IMHO. However, depending on the specific way it will be implemented it may create frictions.

Bottomline is that LH acknowledges the necessity to restore incentives (for flying) through conditioning redemption priority on status and (maybe) bringing back e-vouchers as a function of flying.
I assume that the average M&M customer (status aside) usually books C awards.
I highly doubt this, although it depends on your definition of "typical". Is it average? Median? Wrt time? Number of miles? number of flown miles? By-and-large, IMHO most awards are in Y. That's exactly what makes FFPs profitable. ;)

IMHO most awards are in Y. That's exactly what makes FFPs profitable. ;)
And I thought that at least M&M is profitable because of people who spend their miles for the World Shop or simply let them expire :rolleyes:

And I thought that at least M&M is profitable because of people who spend their miles for the World Shop or simply let them expire :rolleyes:
Those guys too! ;)

BTW, there is a lot of new info from yesterday's meeting with LH's big bosses and it would be unfair to be buried (let alone the fact that it is off-topic) in this thread.

It will be, therefore, much easier for LH (and especially for Mr Antinori who proved that he is a regular reader of this forum) to access this info and check it out.

First itinerary for the A380 is something really minor, compared to the discussions that should start here given all this new info... This is a FF forum, not a plane spotter one.

According to what we learned yesterday, the real average Miles&More customer is spending his miles in the World Shop! As they explained, 80% of their sales are paid with miles, not money. :eek:

Even if it would affect my possibility to book awards - maybe - as I am currently a FTL, I can understand the approach. You can't serve on a "come first - serve first" basis concerning the limited amount of award flights. Antinori is well aware that there are some people who use their credit card turnover and read newspaper to achieve miles and fly on LH First Class.

They have to make sure that they treat their HONs (SENs and maybe even FTLs) better than the so called "Abo-flyer", that's for sure. Antinori in my opinion has to find the middle way for that question, as he shouldn't limit the F award seats to MM status PAX only. By doing this, he would cut out all the other *A frequent flyers - what can not be the spirit of the programme in my eyes.

most customers (who care) will try to get on the newer aircraft, therefore higher demand.

Can this be verified :confused:

Can this be verified :confused:

I remember somebody saying that SQ has a load of 83% on the A380 compared to 72% they have on other aicrafts on the same or similar routes. So it has some attraction, that's for sure.

Why should F on A 380 be more booked than than F on A 340 ? , I rarely had a problem to upgrade on A 340 .


As per an earlier post in this tread it seems like LH upper management is following this forum , and we should IMHO react as we did on lounge " enhancement " on the thoughts LH currently has on number of F seats , upgrade restrictions etc on the A 380.

Nah, this is typical marketing lingo within all corporations. "We are the good guys, we want to offer you stuff but, you know, those bean counters..."
Or at least he is the good guy but unfortunately others in the company are not as caring... :p

Antinori in my opinion has to find the middle way for that question, as he shouldn't limit the F award seats to MM status PAX only. By doing this, he would cut out all the other *A frequent flyers - what can not be the spirit of the programme in my eyes.
Why? Other *A carriers are getting away with it. :rolleyes:

most customers (who care) will try to get on the newer aircraft, therefore higher demand.
Can this be verified :confused:
If you read how some FTers are not aware of the difference between the old and new configurations on LX A333, average customers are unlikely to prefer one or the other. But then more average customers may be aware of the difference between A380 and other products.

[QUOTE]If you read how some FTers are not aware of the difference between the old and new configurations on LX A333, average customers are unlikely to prefer one or the other.

Agreed



But then more average customers may be aware of the difference between A380 and other products.

Is anyone aware of this yet ? Except that LH is trying to delay deliveries as much as ever possible , 8? almost non- upgradable seats in F ,a urinal in F WC:D, possibly fully flat C and avod in Y

Antinori also confirmed that New F will have 8 seats.

And not just him but also the people who actually design LH's cabin. I trust them a lot more than any executive :)

How many 380 does LH have on order , what is current delivery schedule ?

How many 380 does LH have on order , what is current delivery schedule ?

Totally 15 on order plus 10 options. According to what I heard on wednesday they should get one each month starting March 2010.

Why? Other *A carriers are getting away with it. :rolleyes:


OK, I guess that sounds blue-eyed now: Because that is not the spirit of Star Alliance.

What these "other *A carriers" are doing is - in my opinion - like "OK, we play the *A game a little bit, but the best we keep for us". I am well aware that we have different service and quality levels within *A. But if they want to create a REAL Alliance, all the members have to contribute. And I think they should not contribute only the basic service they MUST do.

Might be more a wish or an imagination I have about that, but I think if every *A member only is looking to put down the service for other *A customers, the whole system will go down and be even worse than it is now. If they want to be different from others, they have to build up and keep a level *A-wide which is outstanding compared to all other carriers out there.

But that's just my 2 cents. :(

I'd actually appreciate if LH limited F awards to SENs and HONs. At least this would be an incentive to go for SEN instead of crediting to easy *G option like TK, BD, AC etc... (and I have played the BD game a lot!)

How many 380 does LH have on order , what is current delivery schedule ?

Here's a picture of one of them:

http://www.starmegado.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/SBM_1127.jpg

I'd actually appreciate if LH limited F awards to SENs and HONs. At least this would be an incentive to go for SEN instead of crediting to easy *G option like TK, BD, AC etc... (and I have played the BD game a lot!)

Even if I partially understand your point of view, what about yourself using awards on other *A-carrier? Imagine UA giving away F-Awards only to 1Ks. Think of AC or NZ limiting their Executive First or Business to Super Elite respectively Gold Elite? Would you only go where LH flies or sit in Y? Because nobody says that only carriers with 3-class-products would be "allowed" to cut their available award seats down.

Even if I partially understand your point of view, what about yourself using awards on other *A-carrier? Imagine UA giving away F-Awards only to 1Ks. Think of AC or NZ limiting their Executive First or Business to Super Elite respectively Gold Elite? Would you only go where LH flies or sit in Y? Because nobody says that only carriers with 3-class-products would be "allowed" to cut their available award seats down.

Well, SQ already limits their product (C&F!) quite successfully (for them). Also NH does not release that many F seats either.
And only a certifiable lunatic would redeem M&M miles for UA F ! ;)

Here's a picture of one of them:

http://www.starmegado.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/SBM_1127.jpg

The "youngest one" that I know of is D-AIMD (number 4). D-AIMA as you guys know is already in the air but currently in HAM for painting and interior. Shouldn't take that much longer until LH could actually have it but I think they are okay with a later delivery.

The "youngest one" that I know of is D-AIMD (number 4). D-AIMA as you guys know is already in the air but currently in HAM for painting and interior. Shouldn't take that much longer until LH could actually have it but I think they are okay with a later delivery.

The one in the picture is "MC".

The one in the picture is "MC".

Okay cool. I was wondering which one it was. The MD tail is in production or on the way to production as well.

Did you see all the assembly, so would you know if MD is in final assembly or not? Did they say how long it takes to get one bird through final assembly in TLS? To make assumptions how long MC will take...

We saw 6 A380s in production IIRC (but perhaps it was only 5 ... I was quite tired...): 2-3 (?) x LH, 1 AF, 2 x EK

Is LH putting a new first class in these 380s. The F now is comparable to the nicer J products available.

How's the A380 in Y? It seems like this would be a prime candidate for SFO-JFK on UA in p.s. EUA'd C connecting to JFK-FRA on LH.

Well, SQ already limits their product (C&F!) quite successfully (for them). Also NH does not release that many F seats either.
And only a certifiable lunatic would redeem M&M miles for UA F ! ;)

Just extend my 3 examples to the whole *A-network and pick the carrier you like. I'm just saying that also YOUR travel possibilities in C or F could be significantly reduced if all carriers would do these cuts in available award seats.
And that must not be the intention of *A.

I hope they take the right steps at Lufthansa to secure on the one hand prferred award availability to the HONs but on the other hand keep it available to everybody still. Everything else would - in my eyes - damage the worth of the network siginificantly.

How's the A380 in Y? It seems like this would be a prime candidate for SFO-JFK on UA in p.s. EUA'd C connecting to JFK-FRA on LH.

Even if we did see the possibilities how the A380 COULD be equipped at AIRBUS, I guess nobody knows what Lufthansa really is doing in the end.

At the Q&A with LH CEO Wolf, did anybody ask him when the last was that he spent a flight in Y on a B747, maybe even on a night flight?

At the Q&A with LH CEO Wolf, did anybody ask him when the last was that he spent a flight in Y on a B747, maybe even on a night flight?

IIRC, noone did ask this question! :D
Guess the last time he flew Y is too long ago....

IIRC, noone did ask this question! :D
Guess the last time he flew Y is too long ago....

believe it or not, he is flying Y quiet regularly...

he was definitely on more longhaul Y flights than me in the last three years... :D

I hope they take the right steps at Lufthansa to secure on the one hand prferred award availability to the HONs but on the other hand keep it available to everybody still. Everything else would - in my eyes - damage the worth of the network siginificantly.

HONs already have preferred award availability, though not in F. limiting F awards to their own elites, but releasing seats to others a few days before departure is absolutely ok i think, and is something that many *A carriers already do. try to get an SQ F seat way in advance, almost no chance. not to mention its almost impossible to get a second one...

on top of all that, C awards are widely available all over the *A, even at peak times i never experienced major problems as long as i was a little bit flexible with time and/or date. so its not that you are stuck in Y just because you might not get F... ;)

How does this approach affect C awards? So the customers gets upgraded into F, will the open C spot open as award on short notice as well?
In my cases this year C and Y cabins were terribly overbooked, so definitely no extra C awards on short notice. But this depends...

Just extend my 3 examples to the whole *A-network and pick the carrier you like. I'm just saying that also YOUR travel possibilities in C or F could be significantly reduced if all carriers would do these cuts in available award seats.
And that must not be the intention of *A.

Who cares about all this *A BS? :confused:

Airlines should be for their own customers first. I am absolutely okay, that only SQ elites get SQ F awards, UA elites are preferred on UA and LH/LX is for LH/LX HON and SEN, period. At least for the premium awards.

Who cares about all this *A BS? :confused:


Maybe these people who want to reach destinations their home carrier does not fly to?

Who cares about all this *A BS? :confused:

Airlines should be for their own customers first. I am absolutely okay, that only SQ elites get SQ F awards, UA elites are preferred on UA and LH/LX is for LH/LX HON and SEN, period. At least for the premium awards.

Edit: Never mind.

Corrected already. Again:

EK = 14
SQ = 12
QF = 14
AF = 9
LH = 8

Then the EK A380 Seatguru seat map is wrong as it shows 16 F seats. But doesn't make a difference, LH is still an odd player in terms of F seat numbers.

We saw 6 A380s in production IIRC (but perhaps it was only 5 ... I was quite tired...): 2-3 (?) x LH, 1 AF, 2 x EK

Rambuster, good afternoon.

Airbus A380 tour was very impressive, and I really enjoyed it, like lots of others.There were 5 of them, 2 x EK, 2 x LH and 1 AF, LH MD was on the right hand side when we entered the building, and on left was the EK, tail was sitting next to it, before entering the next fase in assembly.
There was the AF as 1st, LH 2nd (testing the avionics), and the EK with engines almost ready for roll out according to our tourguide.

Edwin;)

Tired but very happy

Rambuster, good afternoon.

Airbus A380 tour was very impressive, and I really enjoyed it, like lots of others.There were 5 of them, 2 x EK, 2 x LH and 1 AF, LH MD was on the right hand side when we entered the building, and on left was the EK, tail was sitting next to it, before entering the next fase in assembly.
There was the AF as 1st, LH 2nd (testing the avionics), and the EK with engines almost ready for roll out according to our tourguide.

Edwin;)

Tired but very happy

You are correct ! Now I remember too. Thanks for jogging my memory !

Then the EK A380 Seatguru seat map is wrong as it shows 16 F seats.
While the picture shows 16, the accompanying text says 14.
But doesn't make a difference, LH is still an odd player in terms of F seat numbers.
With 9 AF F seats, not so odd.

Maybe these people who want to reach destinations their home carrier does not fly to?
Bad luck. :p

Maybe these people who want to reach destinations their home carrier does not fly to?Bad luck. :p
I'm sure there are revenue tix one can buy to those destinations regardless of the status. :p;)

I'm sure there are revenue tix one can buy to those destinations regardless of the status. :p;)
This is, what I always do. I stopped caring about this *A total nonsense years ago and go with the carrier of my choice. Just made the *A mistake once again last year with a UA domestinc connection, and :mad::td::confused::mad:

This *A is a marketing gimmick, that's it. IMHO, *A RIP. :p

This is, what I always do. I stopped caring about this *A total nonsense years ago and go with the carrier of my choice. Just made the *A mistake once again last year with a UA domestinc connection, and :mad::td::confused::mad:

This *A is a marketing gimmick, that's it. IMHO, *A RIP. :p

With 27 or 28 airlines in Star it really is becoming a joke. It is a marketing cooperation at the lowest common denominator - this denominator being they all operate flights ! :D

With 27 or 28 airlines in Star it really is becoming a joke. It is a marketing cooperation at the lowest common denomenator - this denominator being they all operate flights ! :D

Yeah. Told this the *A guys at the do in FRA and strangely enough they actually seemed genuinely surprised about it. Guess they don't actually fly much and if they do you don't notice all that when on a jumpseat..

Rambuster and SoG, what you are saying is exactly proving my point of view. :D

If *A wants to be more than just a "marketing gag" they are surely not achieving that by putting up borders between the member airlines. I have no idea what Mr. Antinori's vision of *A is, but a REAL alliance could never be build without contribution from the members.

So I see no way for each and every airline picking their raisins out of the network (fine if my SQ elite whatever members can fly F on miles at LH, UA, LX an all the others, but I will not give any F seats to other *A-customers).

I am curious what answer they will find to that. Wouldn't be surprised if the rule would be that only Y and C are available *A-wide. If thats a rule for the common network, why not?

Every other special-solution of the airlines putting up restrictions just how they like is not the way this alliance should go.

Hi there!

This is a friendly reminder to stay on topic: The inaugural LH A380 flight. If you want to discuss the advantages and (probably even more so) disadvantages of *A please start a new thread either in this forum or the *A forum.

Take care!

totti
M&M moderator

Is LH putting a new first class in these 380s. The F now is comparable to the nicer J products available.

Anyone know the answer to this one? :)

Anyone know the answer to this one? :)

Yes, LH is putting a new F into the A380 and potentially looks at retrofitting the Airbuses. A search will bring up the threads with all the details we "know" so far.

Yes, LH is putting a new F into the A380 and potentially looks at retrofitting the Airbuses. A search will bring up the threads with all the details we "know" so far.
The information/rumors on new F can be found in the M&M guide sticky in this forum as well (Post #3 IIRC).

Well... I'm booked in First on Lufthansa 400/401 connecting in FRA to 740/741 to KIX. Hopefully I'll get lucky. :D ^

Well... I'm booked in First on Lufthansa 400/401 connecting in FRA to 740/741 to KIX. Hopefully I'll get lucky. :D ^

Delivery of the first A380 is now scheduled for May 31, 2010. If your travel date is past that date, you might be lucky... :cool:

Delivery of the first A380 is now scheduled for May 31, 2010. If your travel date is past that date, you might be lucky... :cool:

September 2010. :cool:

Any possibility for NRT route?
I have F award for LH710 next August.. hope something wonderful happens!

September is good for New York - I keep my fingers crossed!

I wouldn't hold my breath for August and Tokyo...

The second and third destinations are rumoured to be JHB and PVG.

EXPO in Shanghai starts May 1, World Cup in S.A. starts in June with finals in July.

Delivery dates for the LH A380s in 2010 are:

D-AIMA 038 31.05.10
D-AIMB 041 30.06.10
D-AIMC 044 31.07.10
D-AIMD 048 30.09.10

Mr Mayrhuber confirmed that the first bird will fly to JFK. That might gonna happen in June. Next bird in July could fly to JNB. Third destination might be PVG. NRT might go A380 in March 2011...

I wouldn't hold my breath for August and Tokyo...

The second and third destinations are rumoured to be JHB and PVG.

EXPO in Shanghai starts May 1, World Cup in S.A. starts in June with finals in July.
Mr Mayrhuber confirmed that the first bird will fly to JFK. That might gonna happen in June. Next bird in July could fly to JNB. Third destination might be PVG. NRT might go A380 in March 2011...
FWIW Mr Mayrhuber mentioned NRT and PVG before JNB during the MegaDo.

FWIW Mr Mayrhuber mentioned NRT and PVG before JNB during the MegaDo.
They can't send the second bird to JNB, because one bird is not enough for this route. The third bird comes too late for the world cup and other than the world cup it is low (winter) season on South Africa.

PVG having the Expo makes much more sense to me as a summer destination.

They can't send the second bird to JNB, because one bird is not enough for this route.
The same applies to NRT and PVG.

The same applies to NRT and PVG.

But dont you see it feasable to mix the metal?

The same applies to NRT and PVG.
Of course. :o

But the third bird is scheduled end of July. The world cup will be history then, the Expo not. :rolleyes: In particular August and September are most popular travel month.

The same applies to NRT and PVG.

Yes, but the NRT and PVG routes see the aircraft turned around in about two hours, so 1 aircraft is not enough by only a few hours per day (and once you have two, you can alternate them between JFK and NRT/PVG to make up the extra time). The flight to NRT leaves at 13:35 and the aircraft is scheduled to be back in FRA at 14:15 the next day, just under 25 hours later. That's not too bad.

At JNB, the aircraft spends an entire day sitting on the tarmac. After a 22:35 departure at FRA, arrival at JNB is around 10am, the flight back to FRA departs at 20:00, arriving FRA at 05:25. That is almost 31 hours, which is too much for it to be combined with a daily JFK roundtrip.

Given this, I could see LH going with this schedule once the second aircraft arrives:

Day 1:

Aircraft 1: LH710 FRA-NRT 13:35 - 07:30+1
Aircraft 2: LH404 FRA-JFK 17:00 - 19:35
Aircraft 2: LH405 JFK-FRA 21:35 - 11:35+1

Day 2:

Aircraft 1: LH711 NRT-FRA 09:35 - 14:15
Aircraft 2: LH710 FRA-NRT 13:35 - 07:30+1
Aircraft 1: LH404 FRA-JFK 17:00 - 19:35
Aircraft 1: LH405 JFK-FRA 21:35 - 11:35+1

Day 3:

Aircraft 2: LH711 NRT-FRA 09:35 - 14:15
Aircraft 1: LH710 FRA-NRT 13:35 - 07:30+1
Aircraft 2: LH404 FRA-JFK 17:00 - 19:35
Aircraft 2: LH405 JFK-FRA 21:35 - 11:35+1

And so on, basically a ping-pong FRA-NRT-FRA-JFK-FRA-NRT-FRA-JFK-FRA... for each aircraft. It's a little tight in terms of turnarounds for the NRT flight, but for a few weeks it should be sustainable.

Obviously, one of the flights cannot be daily A380 service, because the aircraft will have to go in for maintenance at some point. But I think this is a decent base to start from.

Thanks, alex0683de. This was going to be my next project but you've done the work for me. ;) I've certainly noticed the FRA-NRT-FRA-JFK-FRA rotation in the past.

AFAIK LH401 is more popular than LH405, though. Not sure about LH400 vs LH404. Will LH try to attract more pax to fly LH404/405 by introducing A380?

From a marketing point of view would it not make sense to use the A380 for the duration of the worldcup to Jo'burg? The demand would certainly be there.

Thanks, alex0683de. This was going to be my next project but you've done the work for me. ;) I've certainly noticed the FRA-NRT-FRA-JFK-FRA rotation in the past.

AFAIK LH401 is more popular than LH405, though. Not sure about LH400 vs LH404. Will LH try to attract more pax to fly LH404/405 by introducing A380?

You're welcome.

I also think LH400/LH401 would make a better prospect if seen on its own, but the timings do not work as well with other longhaul destinations once more aircraft arrive.

We'll see what LH decides. The timetable above is just a guess on my part.

Perhaps at some point in the future LH will even go double-daily A380 to JFK, especially if they manage to actually do something with that JetBlue investment they hold. Time will tell.

From a marketing point of view would it not make sense to use the A380 for the duration of the worldcup to Jo'burg? The demand would certainly be there.

In theory, yes, but with only one aircraft they could only do it every other day, not daily.

Day 1: FRA-JNB 22:35 - 10:00+1

Day 2: JNB-FRA 20:00 - 05:25+1

Day 3: FRA-JNB 22:35 - 10:00+1

Day 4: JNB-FRA 20:00 - 05:25+1

and so on...

The JNB route is terrible in terms of aircraft utilisation. At least during the long FRA layovers, you could theoretically send the aircraft on a quick TLV roundtrip (departing FRA 10:15, back in FRA 20:00, works in terms of time but the A380 may be too big for the route), but the time in JNB is definitely lost.

Even with a straight turnaround and a daylight flight one way, the JNB route is simply too long to do it in one 24-hour day. Therefore it cannot be operated with only one aircraft available.

I really don't see JNB happening until the A380 fleet gets a bit bigger, maybe once the fourth aircraft arrives or something.

In terms of marketing, I think it would be better if LH could reliably offer daily A380 service, for which New York is a good fit. It's similar to what SQ did with debuting the A380 on a daily SIN-SYD-SIN rotation (which is of a similar length as FRA-JFK-FRA) rather than three weekly to LHR or something.

....but the A380 may be too big for the route), but the time in JNB is definitely lost.

Exactly. The aircraft would be sitting idle for most of the time which is not great for such an expensive plane. QF has a similar problem with flights to LAX where the planes sit there for most of the day and they were never able to come up with a good solution for this.

Hmmm I will be flying out of NRT on F award at the very end of August. My original plan was NRT-ICN-HKG(OZ F) stopover then fly LX F to FRA via ZRH. Now I am wondering if it is worth skipping a taste of OZ F, stopover in HKG and The Wing for a chance at getting the A380 and new F to FRA :rolleyes:
I could go via PVG or just direct from NRT. I really would not like to swap my planned itinerary for LH's current F seat :td: but I wonder what the chance is of me picking either PVG or NRT and getting it?
Do you reckon LH will make any announcements in the next few months about destinations for 2nd and 3rd A380's without zeroing out F award availability??

Hmmm I will be flying out of NRT on F award at the very end of August. My original plan was NRT-ICN-HKG(OZ F) stopover then fly LX F to FRA via ZRH. Now I am wondering if it is worth skipping a taste of OZ F, stopover in HKG and The Wing for a chance at getting the A380 and new F to FRA :rolleyes:
I could go via PVG or just direct from NRT. I really would not like to swap my planned itinerary for LH's current F seat :td: but I wonder what the chance is of me picking either PVG or NRT and getting it?
Do you reckon LH will make any announcements in the next few months about destinations for 2nd and 3rd A380's without zeroing out F award availability??

The second and third destinations are rumoured to be JNB and PVG. My guess is that NRT will only get the A380 in 2011. Why don't you take advantage of the current US Airways Promotion and book a second F ticket for around 1.000 EUR all-in via PVG? Worst case you have to pay 250 USD to cancel that ticket...