Hilton HHonors - Hhonor point is really low value

I own both Amex hhonor credit card and Starwood credit card. I get my points majorly from credit card spending. I have just realized that Hhonor point value is really low.

For example, I am looking for a 3-night stay in Whistler, Canada in late November.

There is a Hilton and a Westin just next to each other, right in the middle of the village. The two hotels are pretty much equivalent.

Allow me to just ignore the exchange rate and tax & fee here for a quick comparison.

For the Hilton resort, the lowest room rate is CAD 161 or I can redeem 120,000 points for the room.
161*3/120,000=0.004
0.004*3=0.012
That means when I spend 1 dollar on my Hhonor credit card, I get 0.012 reward. (3 Hhonor points)
(I know hhonor credit card gives 5 points per dollar spent in gas station, drug store, and super market, but I use Chase 5% rebate credit card in these stores)

For Westin resort, the lowest room rate is CAD 167 or I can redeem 12,000 points for the room.
167*3/12,000=0.042
That means when I spend 1 dollar on my Starwood credit card, I get 0.042 reward. (1 Starwood point)

I think I am going to take my hhonor card out of my wallet now.

And to add insult to injury that hotel which now costs you 40K HH points per night will cost 50K when the program devaluation currently being discussed here on FT goes into effect Jan. 2010.

As for your calculations, not sure they are right because you don't assume any status bonuses for either program. Most people here on FT have status which was either achieved via credit card spend or via actual stays.

For Westin resort, the lowest room rate is CAD 167 or I can redeem 12,000 points for the room.
167*3/12,000=0.042
That means when I spend 1 dollar on my Starwood credit card, I get 0.042 reward. (1 Starwood point)

Your math is way off - Westin Whistler is a Category 5 SPG property, so it would be 12,000 - 16,000 points per night, so for a 3-night stay you will need 36,000 - 48,000 SPG points.

167*3/36,000=0.014
167*3/48,000=0.010

In either case, it's a poor value to use points at either property. Paying C$161--167++ per night real money is a much better value.

It's not too difficult finding hotels that are bad values for redeeming points.

Your math is way off - Westin Whistler is a Category 5 SPG property, so it would be 12,000 - 16,000 points per night, so for a 3-night stay you will need 36,000 - 48,000 SPG points.

167*3/36,000=0.014
167*3/48,000=0.010

Exactly. In addition, you get 6 Hilton HHonors points (NOT 5) for using the Hilton Amex at supermarkets, drug stores, gas stations, landline and wireless phone companies, internet service providers, and cable and satellite TV services. And no annual fee for the Hilton Amex, unlike the Starwood Amex.

I guess the OP doesn't know much about the Hilton HHonors program. If he did, he wouldn't waste his points on either Whistler property. Better to use in NYC or London during peak periods when the points are far more valuable.

Your math is way off - Westin Whistler is a Category 5 SPG property, so it would be 12,000 - 16,000 points per night

It's 12,000 -- SPG eliminated peak rates for Cat5 and Cat6 this year.

It's 12,000 -- SPG eliminated peak rates for Cat5 and Cat6 this year.

Good to know, thanks!

That said, the example suggested by the OP still shows that value of a point based on redemption in Whistler, is about the same for SPG or HH. Both represent rather poor value, IMO, for redemption in Whistler.

With such attractive cash rates at both properties, keep your points.

I have traditionally valued SPG:MR:HH at 1:3:4. The HH devaluation making me think roughly 1:3:5 going into 2010.

Or...a nickel per Starpoint, a penny and a half or so per Marriott point, and a penny per HH point.

Eugene, thank you for pointing out my error. I did not notice that the points showing on the Starwood website is per night not per stay.

I saved quite a few Hhonor points but never redeem them before. I figure I better use them before the value goes down. I am gold Hhonor and no status of Starwood. I just got my Starwood credit card less than 2 month ago and accumulated 75,000 points so far. I transferred quite a few points to my airline miles already.

I know a lot people think it is better to use Hhonor points in somewhere expensive such as NYC or Europe. However, for people like me who don't have time to travel a lot, I think it is better to use the points when I have a chance. Otherwise, the points will just sit there for years and finally get devaluated.

Here is another question about how to calculate the hotel point value.
Most people will use the room rate to calculate point value. For me, I will never spend more than $100 on a hotel room. Assume that I can use Priceline to get the same hotel for CAD80; then, should I use $80 or the actually room rate CAD161 to determine the point value?

Thanks :)

Here is another question about how to calculate the hotel point value.
Most people will use the room rate to calculate point value. For me, I will never spend more than $100 on a hotel room. Assume that I can use Priceline to get the same hotel for CAD80; then, should I use $80 or the actually room rate CAD161 to determine the point value?


I tend to do something in the middle. As an HH Gold, you will be treated a lot differently on your award stay than you would on a Priceline stay - even if you got lucky and happened to get assigned the Hilton with your $80 bid.

I tend to look at what a decent room in the city would cost me if I had no points - and maybe add a small premium for breakfast and the desirable room I'll get with Hilton.

Example: next week, I'm doing a GLON2 at Luxor. 150k points. Appears to be $290/nt. for a room with similar cancellation rules to the award. (Also appears to be a $20 pp. "extra guest" charge for the 2nd guest. I can't tell if this is enforced for just two people.) So, roughly $2,000 for the 6 nights assuming a moderate level of taxes/fees.

But...Luxor is full of properties that go for a lot less then the Hilton. Lots of options that appear to be high quality in the $175-200 range. (Plus a horde of sub-$100 hotels - not that I'd book those without a solid firsthand recommendation.)

So, how to value the HH points? In my mind, I'm thinking a penny a point is fair considering that HH Gold will likely net a very nice room, possibly airport transfers for free, a well-reviewed breakfast buffet, etc. If a well-rated resort I've never heard of is in the $160 range, then I think calling the Hilton a little over $200/nt. in "value" is fair. In other words, right around 1 cent per point.

(I don't think you can Priceline Luxor, but even if you could there's no way I'd actually do it.)

I just got my Starwood credit card less than 2 month ago and accumulated 75,000 points so far.

<snip>

I know a lot people think it is better to use Hhonor points in somewhere expensive such as NYC or Europe. However, for people like me who don't have time to travel a lot, I think it is better to use the points when I have a chance. Otherwise, the points will just sit there for years and finally get devaluated.

<snip>

For me, I will never spend more than $100 on a hotel room.

In your case, I would suggest that you reevaluate why you want to collect points in the first place. Redemptions for nights that could be had for under $100 will almost always represent a very poor value for your points, no matter which program.

Perhaps a better deal for you would be a credit card that gives you cash back instead. Do a search, and you will find several that have no annual fee and give you 1% (or more) of your spending back in cash.

As as Gold or Diamond, the value of the complimentary breakfast benefit and lounge access (especially in Europe) should also be factored because it is worth about 30 to 40 euros per day per person for breakfast and even more if you include drinks and afternoon snacks.

In my opinion, the "value" of the stay on points may actually be higher for many high end Hilton properties than for SPG.

... Assume that I can use Priceline to get the same hotel for CAD80; then, should I use $80 or the actually room rate CAD161 to determine the point value?
Let me add some obsvervations to pinnipeds excellent answer:

When I know where to go, I shop for rates and narrow down my options to three properties. Than I have a price range for properties I feel comfortable with in a prefered location. I use this price range for my individual redemption calculation.

As you earn your points per CC this site (http://www.plasticiq.com/) might be for some assistence. However, as he equate the value one night with its price (whether the market is competitive or not), I am not with his assumption, but have a look why he values 1 HH point at 0.43 cents (http://www.plasticiq.com/blog/2009/04/what-is-the-value-of-hilton-honors-points/).

Hilton HHonors Category Change in 2010 and Redemption Guide (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/loyaltytraveler/2009/10/21/hilton-hhonors-category-change-in-2010-and-redemption-guide/)
Spending HHonors Points – a Qualitative Analysis, part 2 (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/loyaltytraveler/2009/10/22/spending-hhonors-points-%e2%80%93-a-qualitative-analysis-part-2/)
Spending HHonors Points – a Qualitative Analysis, part 3 (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/loyaltytraveler/2009/10/22/spending-hhonors-points-a-qualitative-analysis-part-3/)

Two other random thoughts:

- Don't get too carried away with what hotels list as their retail breakfast costs. There have been threads on various boards here about why hotels have decided to list their breakfast costs at five to ten times higher than street value - most agree that a large enough volume of business travelers can buy a hotel breakfast and expense it without any problems, making 30 or 40 Euros actually the optimal price for the hotel. For award purposes, I tend to allow 5 or 10 dollars per person per day in "value" for the breakfast. Even in Paris or London, I don't think I've actually ever spent more than 5 quid/Euros for breakfast on the street.

- The weak dollar actually helps us out a bit on our point valuations, ironically enough. I earn points based on USD spend on a credit card or at the hotel, but then I redeem the points in places where the dollar is very weak. Of course, when the dollar gets TOO weak, the program has to reset the categories since the system itself is inherently based on dollars. But for now...if you can redeem ahead of the HH devaluation...some good values are out there.

The OP's error is in picking a single example and overgeneralizing from that to the whole system.

In fact, actual point redemption values vary HUGELY. I.e., sometimes, points redemption is a bad value, sometimes it is an OK value, and sometimes it is a bargain. Those who are aware of this usually try to benefit from the opportunities to arbitrage the difference between the cash price and the points price for a hotel room -- i.e., to maximize point value.

I imagine two piles.

A pile of money
A pile of points

I look and see which one I have more of and which I am most comfortable using at the time. It's not just about assigning a dollar value to each point, it's about which one I have or don't have too.

I would never estimate breakfast to be worth 30 or 40 euros just because that's what the hotel charges for it. Decent meals can be had for less money usually then you would have to leave for a tip at breakfast.

If everybody had both unlimited points and unlimited money, it would make sense to make a decision based just on points per penny or whatever. But in reality, most of us have to balance which we have more of at the time, be it a good value or a bad one.

I have lots of money, but I wish I had more points. :)

I imagine two piles.

A pile of money
A pile of points

I look and see which one I have more of and which I am most comfortable using at the time. It's not just about assigning a dollar value to each point, it's about which one I have or don't have too.

I would never estimate breakfast to be worth 30 or 40 euros just because that's what the hotel charges for it. Decent meals can be had for less money usually then you would have to leave for a tip at breakfast.

If everybody had both unlimited points and unlimited money, it would make sense to make a decision based just on points per penny or whatever. But in reality, most of us have to balance which we have more of at the time, be it a good value or a bad one.

Actually, I agree with you. I am certainly not a "pure arbitrageur" when it comes to points/miles vs. money! Far from it.

I think you missed my point- if you are comparing the "value" of a stay at a Hilton with a great breakfast and lounge, vs a Starwood without, the Hilton benefit needs to be considered.

If I am on vacation and at a resort hotel, or in a major european city, I have no desire to go on the street for a 5 - 6 euro breakfast, especially when such a wonderful, ample breakfast comes as a benefit of being a gold or platinum. Drinks are easily worth $10-20 USD per day as well.

Have you been to the Hilton in Cabo? First, there is no easy place to leave for breakfast (or any other meal) but why would you ever want to go someplace else when the breakfast is so wonderful with live music and the incredible view? So, if comparing a stay at the Westin without benefits to the Hilton with benefits, I think the Hilton is a better use of points (and is a nicer hotel as well....)

When the Langham in London was a Hilton, the breakfast was over the top with more silverware and tea/coffee service on the table than I think we even own!

If I am on vacation and at a resort hotel, or in a major european city, I have no desire to go on the street for a 5 - 6 euro breakfast, especially when such a wonderful, ample breakfast comes as a benefit of being a gold or platinum.

As with everything, YMMV. I have very little desire to eat a huge meal first thing in the morning -- and hate to take the time for a sit down meal when on vacation -- so the hotel breakfast is worth much less to me.

I think what pinniped was saying is that you need to look not at the cost of the breakfast, but at what you would spend if you didn't have it. If you think you'd spring for the big breakfast, then perhaps it is worth $30-40 for you. For others, a croissant and a cup of coffee would make them just as happy; in that case the value is not $30-40.