Starwood Preferred Guest - Why is SPG so slightly rewarding for hotel spend?

Spending $2000 shortly for about a week in London at either the Le Meridien Piccadilly or the Trafalgar Hilton. The former accrues 7000 points or 35% of a free night at a near-top Cat 6 while the latter accrues 50000 points or 125% of a free night at the comparable-top Cat 6.

It's certainly possible to frame hotel loyalty programs in reductive terms.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-rewards/1012225-marriott-points-question.html

OK, I'll bite - what am I missing? "Earn 10 HHonors Base points for each eligible U.S. dollar charged to your room". $2000 = 20000 points.

I have hundreds of thousands of SPG and HH points and haven't used an HH point in at least 5 years. Lack of availability, double "anytime" awards, etc. always send me back to SPG. Points aren't worth much if they aren't usable. I've had numerous resort Christmas/New Years week stays with SPG, no problems, no upcharges.

I have hundreds of thousands of SPG and HH points and haven't used an HH point in at least 5 years. Lack of availability, double "anytime" awards, etc. always send me back to SPG. Points aren't worth much if they aren't usable. I've had numerous resort Christmas/New Years week stays with SPG, no problems, no upcharges.

You might want to take a look at Hilton again as they along with Hyatt and Marriott have adopted the No blackouts/any standard room availability practice pioneered by SPG

Spending $2000 shortly for about a week in London at either the Le Meridien Piccadilly or the Trafalgar Hilton. The former accrues 7000 points or 35% of a free night at a near-top Cat 6 while the latter accrues 50000 points or 125% of a free night at the comparable-top Cat 6.

This is a totally flawed way of thinking, IMO. HHonors cat 6's are not comparable to SPG's cat 6 at all, with rare exception. In my experience, most HH cat 6 are much closer in line with SPG cat 4. Besides, the LM Piccadilly is an SPG cat 5. You might as well be asking why $2000 only gets you to about 60% of the way to a free night at the Grand Wailea, which is more in line with a typical SPG cat 6.

Apologies to answer the question by asking a question and thus not answering the question, but at this moment I have not got the time to work out the answer, but will later if no one else beats me to it!

From the question it sounds like whichever hotel they choose the cost will be about $2000. While I am not sure the hotels are comparable to eachother, but as the op considers they are that is what is important. The question i would ask is the points you get for this stay, how much of a free night would you get at that property should you spend your points there and clearly what is your chances of getting a room under free nights at that property.

Comparing Cat to Cat seems a bad idea because as many have already pointed out the cats accross the brands is not the same! The other way of looking at it would be to see how many airline miles it would get you with your favorite airline!

Just my thoughts anyway!

Spending $2000 shortly for about a week in London at either the Le Meridien Piccadilly or the Trafalgar Hilton. The former accrues 7000 points or 35% of a free night at a near-top Cat 6 while the latter accrues 50000 points or 125% of a free night at the comparable-top Cat 6.

Does this equation changes if you stay for only 1 night at both properties and then compare the value of the reward. My opinion is that SPG is more geared for rewarding you for "stays" versus Hilton rewards you for the "nights."

Also, as pointed out my another posted, there must be some type of special bonus here for you from Hilton, otherwise you should be getting only 20K Hilton points for this stay.

Therefore, business traveler who only stays a night or two here and there gets rewarded very well in SPG.

I agree that SPG Cat 5 is most comparably to HH Cat 6. Certainly the case in my example, though I prefer the Trafalgar a good deal more than the LM Piccadilly.

I also calculated the HH earn incorrectly, as I am HH Gold. For a HH Gold, the 2009/Q4 earn rate is 27.5points/USD -- 10 base points, 5 points in lieu of miles, 10 Q4 double points, 2.5 HH gold status points.

So, spending $2000 shortly for about a week in London at either the Le Meridien Piccadilly or the Trafalgar Hilton. The former accrues 7000 points or 58% of a free night at a near-top Cat 5 while the latter accrues 55000 points or 138% of a free night at the comparable-top Cat 6.

Even for short stays, HH seems more rewarding in Q4 because HH members can earn 1000 bmi miles per night plus 22.5points/USD, which is better than 1000 SPG per stay bonus plus 3points/USD.

Spending $2000 shortly for about a week in London at either the Le Meridien Piccadilly or the Trafalgar Hilton. The former accrues 7000 points or 35% of a free night at a near-top Cat 6 while the latter accrues 50000 points or 125% of a free night at the comparable-top Cat 6.

There are pros and cons to each program. In my opinion *wood's program is excellent and has many good features. This is not one of them. You can't expect the program to be the best in every area.

I agree that SPG Cat 5 is most comparably to HH Cat 6. Certainly the case in my example, though I prefer the Trafalgar a good deal more than the LM Piccadilly.

I also calculated the HH earn incorrectly, as I am HH Gold. For a HH Gold, the 2009/Q4 earn rate is 27.5points/USD -- 10 base points, 5 points in lieu of miles, 10 Q4 double points, 2.5 HH gold status points.

So, spending $2000 shortly for about a week in London at either the Le Meridien Piccadilly or the Trafalgar Hilton. The former accrues 7000 points or 58% of a free night at a near-top Cat 5 while the latter accrues 55000 points or 138% of a free night at the comparable-top Cat 6.

Even for short stays, HH seems more rewarding in Q4 because HH members can earn 1000 bmi miles per night plus 22.5points/USD, which is better than 1000 SPG per stay bonus plus 3points/USD.

It sounds like due to the Hilton Promo it is a better option for you, although without it the choice points value would be similar. Also I do not think the LeMerdien in participating in the 1000 bonus points promo, although I stand to be corrected on this.

There is a simple reason LeMeridien is not participating in this and also does not seem to participate in the other room offers you can often find as it is my understanding the hotel is and has been operating at nearly full occupancy for many months now!

You might want to take a look at Hilton again as they along with Hyatt and Marriott have adopted the No blackouts/any standard room availability practice pioneered by SPG

I always include them in my search, so I'll see how they pan out next time. I'm curious as to whether they are a real (SPG) no-blackout/last room available or a (Marriott) fake, no blackout but no rooms ever available policy. Good to hear that my points might not just sit there withering away until I need a mid-week, February stay in Iowa.

I agree that any program can be shown to be better than another program with carefully chosen data. And I still don't see explanation for points being 250% over what I see in the earning definition.

OK, I'll bite - what am I missing? "Earn 10 HHonors Base points for each eligible U.S. dollar charged to your room". $2000 = 20000 points.

I have hundreds of thousands of SPG and HH points and haven't used an HH point in at least 5 years. Lack of availability, double "anytime" awards, etc. always send me back to SPG. Points aren't worth much if they aren't usable. I've had numerous resort Christmas/New Years week stays with SPG, no problems, no upcharges.

I must say I find most of this post pretty hard to believe:rolleyes:

If you are HH Diamond as you claim to be there is very little difference between the two programs when comes to reward redemption and that nonsensical comment about about "double anytime awards" must presume that every one else here are idiots when it come to the HH programs because no such animal exists and I find it pretty hard to believe that you do not know that is not true. :rolleyes:

mike

There are pros and cons to each program. In my opinion *wood's program is excellent and has many good features. This is not one of them. You can't expect the program to be the best in every area.

Eaxctly ...one does not acrue masses of points by the paid stays at SPG properties .. most points are received by the tons of promos thrown at members.

Looking back at my last 10 stays the promo points add up more than double the room spend points.

mike

OK, I'll bite - what am I missing? "Earn 10 HHonors Base points for each eligible U.S. dollar charged to your room". $2000 = 20000 points.


Eaxctly ...one does not acrue masses of points by the paid stays at SPG properties .. most points are received by the tons of promos thrown at members.

Looking back at my last 10 stays the promo points add up more than double the room spend points.

mike

Well, you are comparing silver with silver. Hilton = :rolleyes:.

Now let's talk about Platinum: Hyatt

$2000 = 13000 points for a Diamond on spend alone.
Don't forget about the G bonus: 1000-3000 per stay
Then Diamond welcome amenity 1000
FFN, mastercard, and other promos

So $2000 = 1 cat 5 award (highest level) which means any night at a upscale Park Hyatt. Park Hyatt Zurich? No problem...avg rate a night = Euro500.

Then, there's the free breakfast for 2 daily, free internet, and free confirmed upgrades. But...I won't go there.

Well, you are comparing silver with silver. Hilton = :rolleyes:.

Now let's talk about Platinum: Hyatt

Then, there's the free breakfast for 2 daily, free internet, and free confirmed upgrades. But...I won't go there.For the OP, it looks like we are comparing base level for SPG earning to Gold at HH. So Plat Hyatt benefits may not help the OP much. (Of course if the OP is a higher level SPG elite member, that could possibly change the earning potential and possibly room upgrades, etc.)

Your point about free breakfast and internet access though may be of interest depending on whether a Gold HH gets either of them.

If a free breakfast or internet is provided for an HH Gold member (and I'm not familiar enough with HH to know exactly when it is provided and when not), that could possibly translate into a sizable savings over the week (given breakfast costs in London). The breakfast savings alone could possibly pay for a night or two for some future hotel stay. Also, does Gold provide any appreciable room upgrade? That might be of interest as well.

Eaxctly ...one does not acrue masses of points by the paid stays at SPG properties .. most points are received by the tons of promos thrown at members.

Looking back at my last 10 stays the promo points add up more than double the room spend points.

mike

Yup! As one who keeps meticulous spreadsheets of everything and who usually stays at properties that cost < $150/night, here is my tally for 2009:

Base points - 6842 pts
Elite bonus - 3421 pts
All other bonuses - 56,250 pts

This is for 25 paid stays. Since I am expected to stay at relatively inexpensive properties, I am glad the big rewards are in the bonuses!

So there are at least two people on this thread who have Gold HHonors status but have a lot to learn (to put it mildly) about HHonors points earning. :eek:

Here is how $2,000 hotel spend at Hilton brand could turn into 50,000 HH points (or more):

10 points/dollar = 20,000 base points

Gold 25% bonus on base points = 5,000 points

"Double dip" earnings style of "points + points" gives an additional 5 points per dollar (if chosen by member instead of airline miles) = 10,000 points

Double base points promo (if chosen & registered by member; 10/5/09 thru 12/31/09) = 20,000 points

On-property VIP benefit (if chosen by member instead of "space-available room upgrade, including breakfast") = 1,000 points

Total = 56,000 points possible for a Gold member (just from hotel room rate --doesn't include on-property spend or credit card bonus points)

(Now, if the $2,000 includes tax, this total would be somewhat reduced, but still....)

Also, if Diamond, there is a 50% bonus on base points (instead of the Gold 25%), so add 5,000 more = at least 61,000 points. (Don't recall if the on-property VIP benefit is higher for Diamond also.)

OP -- is this how you did the calculation? I.e., you included promo bonuses (in this case, the current double base points limited-time promo)?

Whilst I generally like Starwoods far more than equivalent Hiltons, but looking at this purely in terms of points accrual and London, Hilton has by far the better offer. The Hilton London properties are leaps and bounds above the Starwood equivalents and I would pick the Trafalgar in a heartbeat over the Meridien Piccadilly (where I haven't received a suite upgrade on my last 3 stays). All the SPG properties in London have some serious flaws whereas many of the HH properties are very good indeed (e.g. Canary Wharf, Tower Bridge, Trafalgar, Paddington etc.).

The current HH promo does rather bias things but even without this it seems rather an easy choice. HH does reward spend far more than SPG. I personally think this is a good thing but I can see how others without my travel patterns would not. The only area where SPG wins in London is Heathrow with good value better quality properties than the Hilton T4.