Flying Blue (Air France & KLM) - Creative Ticketing ?

Now that the UK has implemented significant tax increases, particularly long haul, is there anyway that we can expect KL/AF to be more creative in ticketing ex the UK ? By this, I mean that my wife and I are planning to go to S America later next year...definately Club, but hopefully First. Should we just start ex AMS or CDG, or could the short hop from LHR be included in the one ticket somehow, without attracting the tax increase ? Or should I ask KL to issue seperate connecting tickets and just pay the short hop tax price , (and extra miles.) ?

I don't know what the exact regulations surrounding APD are, but I would imagine KLM have to be able to demonstrate to the UK authorities that the two itineraries are completely separate in order to avoid paying the higher tax rate.

What you're asking KLM to do is effectively create a new class of LON-AMS ticket that says 'this is an economy ticket. It is only available in conjunction with a longhaul premium ticket ex-AMS. KLM will allow passengers to check luggage through to their final destination, and will guarantee connections in the event of irrops. But this isn't an F ticket starting in London. No siree. A separate ticket, like I told you.'

I think that's expecting a level of innovation that KLM just doesn't have...

There are some parallels with Southwest's attempts to get around the Wright Amendment, which severely limited traffic out of their base in Love Field. (The authorities, in their infinite wisdom, were trying to persuade traffic to use DFW so they put all sorts of restrictions on the destinations theat could be served and aircraft that could be used out of DAL - necessitating some very creative ticketing techniques.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Amendment

I see only two serious options to avoid the ludicrous extra APD:

- separate ticket (in Y) LON-AMS(-LON), then award travel from AMS. I imagine an award could include the last AMS-LON, but accept that although that is logical, it could be 'not possible'. Similar strategy for CDG flights.

- Eurostar from London to Paris, then pick up the intercontinental flights from CDG. Again, this could be one way from LON, though return tickets are often cheaper than one-ways.

Either way, you'd be stuck with checking in bags at AMS or CDG.

A few threads have dealt with this question in this forum and others: the basic consensus is that business class fares (at least cheap ones) are so much cheaper ex-UK as compared to, say, ex-France or the Netherlands that it couldn't possibly be worth it to make it cheaper as two tickets unless of course you either find a fare mistake or book fully flex business class which is more or less at the same price from different places. First would probably be similar to that case so you may be better off buying two separate tickets; but if you decide you are happy to pay the outrageous cost of an AF First anyway, i guess the difference will feel rather small.

Yes, ex-AMS/CDG prices are much higher than ex-UK, negating any savings of airport taxes. Will often fly from MAN/LHR instead of AMS/CDG to save some money if not time.

- Eurostar from London to Paris, then pick up the intercontinental flights from CDG. Again, this could be one way from LON, though return tickets are often cheaper than one-ways.

What's the IATA code for St Pancras again - QQS, isn't it? :D Surely AF would never be creative enough to place its code on Eurostar and allow passengers to use this flight on the outbound as part of their long-haul itineraries in premium classes. :confused:

The separate LON-AMS/CDG ticket and Eurostar options come into their own on redemptions where the ludicrous APD applies to ex-UK award bookings as well as revenue bookings.

The downside would mean using more £££ or miles but could be worth it, depending on individual circumstances.What's the IATA code for St Pancras again - QQS, isn't it? :D Surely AF would never be creative enough to place its code on Eurostar and allow passengers to use this flight on the outbound as part of their long-haul itineraries in premium classes. :confused:Not sure the multinational ownership would allow this. OTOH, why not also BA or BD? :p

What's the IATA code for St Pancras again - QQS, isn't it? :D Surely AF would never be creative enough to place its code on Eurostar and allow passengers to use this flight on the outbound as part of their long-haul itineraries in premium classes. :confused:

For once, I don't think it's fair to blame AF - I don't doubt for a second that they would be volunteering to sign with both hands for a carriage and add their code if there were Eurostar trains that went from St Pancras to CDG. The point of AF's codeshares is to replace flights between CDG and various places which are near enough for the train to be more time-efficient than the plane, not to start flying into central Paris. This being said, I don't have the impression that Eurostar is planning to start running such trains (sadly!)

There was some talk of AF-KLM operating their own services through the tunnel

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/air-france-to-launch-quicker-train-to-paris-as-eurostar-monopoly-ends-925578.html

but I don't know whether anything will come of it. I also don't know whether the plan was to run direct services to CDG, or merely to compete with Eurostar to Gare du Nord.

There was some talk of AF-KLM operating their own services through the tunnel

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/air-france-to-launch-quicker-train-to-paris-as-eurostar-monopoly-ends-925578.html

but I don't know whether anything will come of it. I also don't know whether the plan was to run direct services to CDG, or merely to compete with Eurostar to Gare du Nord.

It is indeed still AF's plan to run a parallel high speed train network to major European destinations. My guess is that to be competitive both as point to point and as hub feeder the trains will stop in both CDG and Gare du Nord.

. The point of AF's codeshares is to replace flights between CDG and various places which are near enough for the train to be more time-efficient than the plane,


I'm sure Eurostar would be delighted to offer on behalf of AF a CDG stop for a service to St Pancras , for what is essentially a not too dissimilar distance of say CDG-BRU.Or am i missing something?

I'm sure Eurostar would be delighted to offer on behalf of AF a CDG stop for a service to St Pancras , for what is essentially a not too dissimilar distance of say CDG-BRU.Or am i missing something?

The bit which i think is indeed missing in your comparison is that the 'price to pay' for the Thalys code-share is that AF is not allowed to sell a Brussels-Paris. The code-share is for connections only and of course, AF would not accept to stop selling LON-PAR itineraries.