Qantas Frequent Flyer - How any MEL peeps have to fly out of SYD because of the lack of international flights

Melbourne has a population not that much smaller than Sydney.

Melbourne has a few of the big banks and mining firms such as BHP and RIO.

Melbourne also has a large economic group of wealthy enough people.

So my question is howcome Sydney has so many MORE Qantas and international flights?

How many MEL pax have to go via SYD to get to the world?

I presume you live in MEL?

In any case, SQ and TG seem to love MEL and seem to be doing quite nicely.

SYD has been the long-time hub (and home) of QF. By Default, they like to hub their activities via SYD.

MEL still has plenty of Long Haul from it from QF (MEL-SIN/BKG/HKG/LAX) but you'll always see more from QF in SYD than MEL.

As mentioned, other carriers are quite happy to pickup the slack out of MEL. For me, I don't mind going via SYD. It's a nice way to start a long haul flight in the SYD F Lounge :)

I don't mind departing from SYD, but I'd rather arrive into MEL.

Interesting. I could not get flights off SYD recently (albeit not on QF - I cannot afford to pay nearly double for C class to Europe with QF, compared to TG/SQ/LH) and had to leave from MEL. I prefer to leave ex SYD and arrive to MEL.

Tourism?
Population?
QF's hub?

Lots of factors.... but it is not just QF... Air NZ have more flights to SYD than MEL & BNE as do a fair few other airlines.

Tourism?

Perhaps that's it... if you ask many tourists on their once-a-lifetime holiday to Australia which port they are going to fly into, Sydney always comes out a long way on top.

Now, that in no way negates Melbourne's charms, it simply reflects what many tourists know about Australia before booking their flight here. And QF lay on their flights accordingly.

A lot of tourists don't think there is much more to Australia then Sydney. Heck, I know a lot of Americans who think Australia is smaller then Texas.

A lot of tourists don't think there is much more to Australia then Sydney. Heck, I know a lot of Americans who think Australia is smaller then Texas. That's because they think AUS stands for Austin. :rolleyes:

Dave

Melbourne has a population not that much smaller than Sydney.

Melbourne has a few of the big banks and mining firms such as BHP and RIO.

Melbourne also has a large economic group of wealthy enough people.

So my question is howcome Sydney has so many MORE Qantas and international flights?

How many MEL pax have to go via SYD to get to the world?

There are so many factors which go into this. Why are there so many more flights to LAX compared to SFO? Why are there my orders of magnitude more flights to PVG than to CAN?
I think the three main reasons for this are that SYD is just the biggest city so it gets more than its share worth of traffic at the expense of other cities. And it is the gateway to Australia so a lot of the inbound tourist traffic comes into Sydney.
And at the moment, QF has reduced their network and is just offering ex SYD flights where there were point to point connections in the past.

Sometimes route length also enters into it. For some routes SYD is 400 miles closer and that equates to a significant increase in cargo capacity. QF had to order 744ERs to be able to operate MEL-LAX economically (while 744s were adequate for SYD-LAX). However the prime driver is demand and SYD has the tourism market locked up over MEL. This is unlikely to ever change.

A lot of tourists don't think there is much more to Australia then Sydney. Heck, I know a lot of Americans who think Australia is smaller then Texas.

I also love getting comments from the Yanks (happened in France once too) along the lines of,
"So, where are you from?"
"Sydney"
"Oh, were driving there next month"


lol

I also love getting comments from the Yanks (happened in France once too) along the lines of,
"So, where are you from?"
"Sydney"
"Oh, were driving there next month"


lol

The best one I have ever heard was when visiting professor from somewhere in USA asked me where I was from originally (it did happen here in Hobart) because of my accent. When I said I was born in Czechoslovakia, he asked "where exactly in Spain Czechoslovakia is?":D

Clearly looks like many people choose to waste time, particularly when travelling with QF, at Sydney Airport when flying!

QF has been losing market share to other International airlines for years. As already pointed out, there are plenty of competitors operating out of MEL & providing some REAL choice. They manage to do it profitably or they would pull out. Good on them!

Some airlines such as AC, BA that previously flew into MEL have pulled out or choose to fly only into one port to save $. Others such as KE, MK, UA and some Chinese carriers also stop at SYD en route to their overseas destination. All adds time, but must be for financial reasons.

The transfer bus or train options (often a charge involved) & experience in SYD, when compared to simply walking across to the other terminals MEL, is laughable. Aren't there often ATC delays at SYD too...?

My guess is that QF use SYD as a hub to feed their domestic and international routes. They make a lot more money & control costs & capacity that way. Sure, many uninformed people overseas think that Sydney IS Australia. More choose to travel via SYD as it may be cheaper, suits their travel plans or perhaps they don't know any better.

Interestingly passenger numbers have continued to rise in MEL over the last few years, even during down turns at other Australian Airports. Melbourne Airport is a cheaper airport for airlines to fly to as the landing fees are less AND there is no night curfew like SYD. Must be why they are expanding the International Terminal? Perhaps why QR have chosen to fly to MEL first or pehaps due to state governmemnt lobbying or lack of available facilities and slots in SYD?

Unfortunately, if you live in MEL & collect or want to burn QF ff points you are often 'routed' literally, in and out of SYD. I have found that even when you try to book a FF ticket on one of the few routes that QF does fly internationally direct from MEL they put you on an alternative flight that operates via SYD.

Don't get me wrong I love Sydney but I don't always want to fly via the place! That's why I choose airlines other than QF...

Clearly looks like many people choose to waste time, particularly when travelling with QF, at Sydney Airport when flying!

QF has been losing market share to other International airlines for years. As already pointed out, there are plenty of competitors operating out of MEL & providing some REAL choice. They manage to do it profitably or they would pull out. Good on them!

Some airlines such as AC, BA that previously flew into MEL have pulled out or choose to fly only into one port to save $. Others such as KE, MK, UA and some Chinese carriers also stop at SYD en route to their overseas destination. All adds time, but must be for financial reasons.

The transfer bus or train options (often a charge involved) & experience in SYD, when compared to simply walking across to the other terminals MEL, is laughable. Aren't there often ATC delays at SYD too...?

My guess is that QF use SYD as a hub to feed their domestic and international routes. They make a lot more money & control costs & capacity that way. Sure, many uninformed people overseas think that Sydney IS Australia. More choose to travel via SYD as it may be cheaper, suits their travel plans or perhaps they don't know any better.

Interestingly passenger numbers have continued to rise in MEL over the last few years, even during down turns at other Australian Airports. Melbourne Airport is a cheaper airport for airlines to fly to as the landing fees are less AND there is no night curfew like SYD. Must be why they are expanding the International Terminal? Perhaps why QR have chosen to fly to MEL first or pehaps due to state governmemnt lobbying or lack of available facilities and slots in SYD?

Unfortunately, if you live in MEL & collect or want to burn QF ff points you are often 'routed' literally, in and out of SYD. I have found that even when you try to book a FF ticket on one of the few routes that QF does fly internationally direct from MEL they put you on an alternative flight that operates via SYD.

Don't get me wrong I love Sydney but I don't always want to fly via the place! That's why I choose airlines other than QF...




As a person who lives in the northern suburbs of Melbourne. I'm lucky because all i have to do is ring up a relative or loved one to come & pick me up once the plane has landed. But when i have family friends or relatives who live in Oakleigh, Dandenong or Frankstown( The south eastern suburbs). I always end up getting a call saying "Can you pick me up from the Airport?". Now people from other cities might ask why? Because Melbourne has no viable public transport to and from the airport only taxi and the skybus which charges $15 at last i heard. So that is also why many people or tourist's prefer Sydney to Melbourne. Just think of the advantage that Melbourne would have if we had a viable public transport service out to the airport.

.... Just think of the advantage that Melbourne would have if we had a viable public transport service out to the airport.MEL and SYD are equivalent in this -- Skybus at MEL costs almost exactly the same as train at SYD, and is slightly more convenient with about the same elapsed time. Of course the shuttle is limited to CBD hotel destinations, making it a tourist rather than local resident service (but the train in SYD can be a nightmare due to commuter loads). In any case I don't think it affects the popularity of SYD one way or the other.

Very interesting.

By 2020 Melbourne will have the bigger population.

How many MEL pax have to go via SYD to get to the world?

Not me, I always fly EK to go "home" and they fly direct to UK via DXB. Even better, I can fly direct to the north of England (BHX or MAN) without having to run the gauntlet of Heathrow or stop off at a European hub.

Is this a case of it all being about the yields? ISTR that's what killed BA's operations to MEL.

What is ISTR?

"I seem to recall".

Just think of the advantage that Melbourne would have if we had a viable public transport service out to the airport.'viable' in what way? A link between airport and CBD or a link between airport and suburbs?

So that is also why many people or tourist's prefer Sydney to Melbourne. Just think of the advantage that Melbourne would have if we had a viable public transport service out to the airport.

I am sorry, but where is the "viable public transport service out to the airport" in Sydney???

The public transport alternatives are:
a) CityRail. An acceptable connection EXCEPT for the price. $15 one-way for a standard train that is packed at peak hours with normal commuters.
b) A public bus (I think the number 400) where (I am sure deliberatly) you will neither find a bus stop or timetable at the airport (at least at the International terminal) and a line that always uses busses that cannot transport luggage.

Every time I have friends visiting me from Europe they are absolutly shocked by Sydney airport's not-viable public transport connection (and the extreme number of shops and the taxi queues). The idea that airports need viable public transport connections is sadly not widly accepted in Australia :(

Direct international flights from Melbourne are increasing. Etihad and Emirates fly out of MEL, and Qatar are on the way with a ridiculously low J class fare of $3890+tax to Europe. This can only mean more positive things for those who live there.

As for the transport. Do they employ the most incompetent people to manage the taxi queue (at SYD and MEL). Personally I have been using Qantas valet parking, and it saves you the time and stress of wasting 45 mins+ in a never ending queue on a Friday evening.

Whilst CityRail is not cheap (because the line is private), it is still convenient because I can catch it from say Central to International Airport in 15 mins or less, without having to worry about peak hour traffic! it is great when trying to catch the plane after work in the city!

However, when I go home from SYD though, since I live in Hills district, I always ended up hiring car from Hertz for 1 day, as it works out cheaper and more convenient than trying to catch train/Hillsbus/taxi/private airport buses, not to mention earning points :p

The only real issue I have right now with SYD is hideous Macquarie fees. Also, whilst I would love to at least have curfew shortened to say from 11pm to say 5am, I doubt it will ever happen.

As a person who lives in the northern suburbs of Melbourne. I'm lucky because all i have to do is ring up a relative or loved one to come & pick me up once the plane has landed. But when i have family friends or relatives who live in Oakleigh, Dandenong or Frankstown( The south eastern suburbs). I always end up getting a call saying "Can you pick me up from the Airport?". Now people from other cities might ask why? Because Melbourne has no viable public transport to and from the airport only taxi and the skybus which charges $15 at last i heard. So that is also why many people or tourist's prefer Sydney to Melbourne. Just think of the advantage that Melbourne would have if we had a viable public transport service out to the airport.

Skybus provides an excellent service for $26 return (to Southern Cross Station) or $16 one way. The return is 2 x 1 way trips to or from the airport, valid for 3 months.

Melbourne's rail system from the south east around Frankston and the like into Southern cross is excellent.

If you live in Penrith in NSW you can get a train all the way to the Airport and it'll end up costing you around the same as Skybus and a train would here in Melbourne.

Having done both the Skybus and the Train in NSW (many many times as I lived next to Central station), Skybus beats it hands down. It drops you off at the door without the vast walk like in SYD, and it's far more regular with plenty of space for luggage. If you're staying in a CBD hotel, skybus also has hotel transfer shuttles available for you to use.

As an airport, MEL is much nicer to leave (if you have access to the F Lounge) and arrive from. I have no objection to breaking a 14-15 hour flight up into a 1 hour segment then 13-14 hours (MEL-SYD-LAX/SFO) but each to their own of course:)

Very interesting.

By 2020 Melbourne will have the bigger population.

No.
Pick any date until 2051 and the ABS says SYD population will exceed MEL.
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/mediareleasesbyReleaseDate/F4A2F9DD7183EE99CA256D9500046E75?OpenDocument

No.
Pick any date until 2051 and the ABS says SYD population will exceed MEL.
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/mediareleasesbyReleaseDate/F4A2F9DD7183EE99CA256D9500046E75?OpenDocument

That is not what the demographic statistics I got from 2 of the big 4 audit firms said. There is also substantial and valid criticism of the way in which the government handles population measurement and figures.

The Age newspaper published a piece which said that melbournes population is in excess of 4 million - a few hundred thousand people more than the government admits. They also provided some very good rebuttles to how the government collects its data, illustrating how wrong the governments methods are.

And think of poor Qantas punters leaving Brisbane.

Average F and J lounge at the Intl airport, no F service by Qantas.

Both Adelaide and Perth are similar to an extent.

Qantas is Sydney Centric - that will not really change in the near future.

Qantas is Sydney Centric - that will not really change in the near future.

Speaking as a MELburnian ..

1) Yes MEL is underserviced by QF compared to SYD, but if you look at comparable city pairs round the world, MEL is reasonably well served in terms of intercontinental flights by QF, and exceptionally well serviced by other carriers (the comparisons I'm thinking are MAD/BCN, NRT/KIX, JNB/CPT, GRU/GIG, YYZ/YUL, MOW/LED).
2) OW fliers are well serviced by CX, but for those chasing status, transits through SYD may indeed be an upside ;)
3) QF offers two alternative times of day for LON-bound pax ex-MEL (afternoon and midnight) whereas they (can) only offer essentially afternoon flights ex-SYD,
4) There are a significant range of flights and end destinations/hubs offered by other carriers, and in the last five years this has expanded considerably in terms of frequency of carriers that had already served MEL and/or new carriers.
5) International destinations you can fly to non-stop from MEL include SIN, KUL, DPS, CGK, BKK, CAN, HKG, MNL, SGN, PEK, LAX, AUH, DXB, AKL, WLG, CHC, NAN, Port Vila, with HKT, JNB, Macau & Doha soon to come. Probably the big one missing from the list is NRT.

SQ, TG and EK all do rather well out of MEL, and really the circa midnight flights are fast becoming MEL's "peak" and something SYD can't offer!

SQ, TG and EK all do rather well out of MEL, and really the circa midnight flights are fast becoming MEL's "peak" and something SYD can't offer!

Part of this is a very good job the CEO of Melbourne Airport has done in improving relationships with airlines to get extra traffic. Air Asia X still has no agreement with MacBank over flights to SYD.

Skybus provides an excellent service for $26 return (to Southern Cross Station) or $16 one way. The return is 2 x 1 way trips to or from the airport, valid for 3 months.

Melbourne's rail system from the south east around Frankston and the like into Southern cross is excellent.

If you live in Penrith in NSW you can get a train all the way to the Airport and it'll end up costing you around the same as Skybus and a train would here in Melbourne.

Having done both the Skybus and the Train in NSW (many many times as I lived next to Central station), Skybus beats it hands down. It drops you off at the door without the vast walk like in SYD, and it's far more regular with plenty of space for luggage. If you're staying in a CBD hotel, skybus also has hotel transfer shuttles available for you to use. ...A 10 trip Skybus ticket costs $120 - I go through about 4 per year.

Also, do not discount the public transport bus services that are little advertised and can be used for the cost of a Metcard (Zone2 or Zone 1&2) and ½ to 1 hour extra travel time (when compared to SkyBus).

These are the 478/479 bus between Airport West and MEL and the 500 bus between Broadmeadows and MEL. These service are approx. hourly and operate during daylight hours.

More here:


478 - Moonee Ponds - Melbourne Airport via Essendon, Airport West, Niddrie (http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/route/view/830)
479 - Sunbury - Moonee Ponds via Melbourne Airport, Airport West (http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/route/view/831)
500 - Broadmeadows - Victoria University via Gladstone Park, Tullamarine, Sunbury (http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/route/view/840)

Because Melbourne has no viable public transport to and from the airport only taxi and the skybus which charges $15

This topic comes up often. Don't fool yourself into thinking that any rail or tram link to the airport is going to be ticketed like normal Melbourne public transport, evidence (BNE, SYD) suggests it will be heavily surcharged and therefore probably costs as much as the SKybus currently does.

Also Skybus is probably going to quicker to get to Southern Cross than any train that uses the current network (eg one that joined the craigeburn line near broadmeadows), and certainly way quicker than a tram if they extended the airport west line to the airport.

And lastly where would they put the train station? Again using SYD/BNE as examples it would probably be a much longer walk from the terminal to a train station than skybus is, which are literally steps from the baggage carousels.

Heck, I know a lot of Americans who think Australia is smaller then Texas.Population-wise, it is!

Another vote here for Skybus 10 pack. (Counter purchased, as required.) I always tend to have one in my wallet. The service is frequent and efficient. The buses are comfortable, modern, clean & non-stop. Plus, the atmosphere, design & ease of use of Southern Cross Station, beats Sydney's Central hands down.

'How many MEL peeps have to fly out of SYD because of the lack of international flights...'

I know a few MEL peeps that fly out of SYD to get those few extra SCs...

Its a shame that BA no longer fly out of MEL because SYD-MEL-SIN etc was a nice way to get a few extra SCs when WT+ was worth paying for.

'How many MEL peeps have to fly out of SYD because of the lack of international flights...'

I know a few MEL peeps that fly out of SYD to get those few extra SCs...

*hands up*

Guilty of that one. Also, the extra ~ never hurts (just in case, that said, i've done around 30-35 DOM flights on QF this year so it' pretty moot, but with my forward plans to move O/S, anything via SYD from O/S makes the 4 ~'s a doddle to get)

Its a shame that BA no longer fly out of MEL because SYD-MEL-SIN etc was a nice way to get a few extra SCs when WT+ was worth paying for.

And MEL-SIN-MEL in WT+ achieved the AA Plat Challenge.

Not possible on two counts now, obviously BA don't fly to MEL, and AA now insists on AA flight numbers for the challenge.

These are the 478/479 bus between Airport West and MEL and the 500 bus between Broadmeadows and MEL. These service are approx. hourly and operate during daylight hours.

What a flash back. I used to catch the 478 to high school - Tullamarine to Niddrie :)