Japan - Our Japan itinerary- any suggestions?

Hi all,

Me and my wife are comming to Japan for 11 days in December.
We are low key, active couple and enjoy seeing lots and don't mind changing places often during travel.
We plan to couchsurf most of the time, but in some cases would enjoy a nice, relaxed place with japaneese spirit.
We love food, especially from street joints and low key places(heard lots of good things on Osaka)

This would be our first trip to Japan-after browsing thru forums and talking to friends we've come up with following itinerary:


Day 1 – 12/12 - arrive NRT arround noon, Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 2 – 13/12 – Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 3 – 14/12 – Tokyo- Nikko- Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 4 – 15/12 – Tokyo-Kyoto (stay Kyoto)
*Day 5 – 16/12 – Kyoto (stay Kyoto)
*Day 6 – 17/12 - Kyoto- Nara – Hiroshima (stay Hiroshima)
*Day 7- 18/12 - Hiroshima – (stay Osaka)
*Day 8 – 19/12 – Osaka (stay Osaka)
*Day 9 – 20/12 – Osaka - Mt Fuji/Hakone/Kamakura (stay Tokyo)
Day 10- 21/12- Tokyo – (stay Tokyo)
Day 11- 22/12 – my wife leaves NRT in the morning, I stay in Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 12 -23/12- I leave from NRT arround noon

Can you share your comments on above plan, maybe recommend sth else(place,food,hostel)?

P.S. * is marked for Japan Rail tickets.
Thanks in advance for any input

T.

Looks ok. Similar to many other itineraries that have been critiqued here in the past.

Day 6 looks a bit packed. Maybe skip Nara. Spend the extra day visiting Miyajima, near Hiroshima.

Same for Day 9. Fuji, Hakone, Kamakura (starting from Osaka) is going to be whistle-stop.

...
Day 1 – 12/12 - arrive NRT arround noon, Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 2 – 13/12 – Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 3 – 14/12 – Tokyo- Nikko- Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 4 – 15/12 – Tokyo-Kyoto (stay Kyoto)
*Day 5 – 16/12 – Kyoto (stay Kyoto)
*Day 6 – 17/12 - Kyoto- Nara – Hiroshima (stay Hiroshima)
*Day 7- 18/12 - Hiroshima – (stay Osaka)
*Day 8 – 19/12 – Osaka (stay Osaka)
*Day 9 – 20/12 – Osaka - Mt Fuji/Hakone/Kamakura (stay Tokyo)
Day 10- 21/12- Tokyo – (stay Tokyo)
Day 11- 22/12 – my wife leaves NRT in the morning, I stay in Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 12 -23/12- I leave from NRT arround noon ...
There are only a couple of things about this that don't thrill me. Others may disagree.

Your Day 9 looks pretty much impossible to actually see anything. You are trying to cover too much ground. In December, Mt. Fuji will be pretty much inaccessible. If you want to experience a Japanese inn (ryokan,) Hakone might be a good place to do that.

I also don't much like staying 2 nights in Kyoto and 2 nights in Osaka. I'd consolidate to stay in one or the other and just use the Rail Pass to commute between the two. They are less than 30 minutes apart by local trains - 14 minutes if you go from ShinOsaka Station to Kyoto on the shinkansen. I'd just daytrip and leave the luggage in the room.

Likewise, Kamakura is a cheap local train ride from Tokyo. You could easily do that on your 10th day after the Rail Pass expires.

Maybe:
Day 1-2 - Tokyo - stay Tokyo
Day 3 - Nikko
Day 4-7 - Kyoto/Osaka/Nara - stay Kyoto or Osaka
Day 8 - Hiroshima/Miyajima - stay Hiroshima
Day 9 - Hakone - stay Hakone - next day local to Tokyo
Day 10 - Kamakura (local train) - stay Tokyo
Day 11-12 - Tokyo

Or, you could skip the stay in Hakone and go on to Tokyo on the Rail Pass. Then do local trains to Kamakura and or Hakone as noted.

Either way, you will be paying for trips to/from NRT. You can save money using the Keisei Line trains to Nippori or Ueno as opposed to the Narita Express to Tokyo or Shinagawa Stations. Depends on where you will be staying in Tokyo.

I second Miyajima. Also, you might consider staying in Hiroshima as well.
If you like oysters, there are a lot of vendors on Miyajima selling it - grilled on the shell. :D I went nuts and ate 8....

Your day 9 is probably not do-able. Or very rushed. You'll have to go all the way from Osaka back to Tokyo to go to Hakone. Or get off at Shin Fuji. And then also Kamakura - which is not on the shinkansen line.

Tokyo to Kamakura is only 890 yen. I'll do that on another day.
But there is not much to see in Hakone. So you might want to take a pass on that.

If you're interested in temples and art, I would say not to skip Nara. Some of the best and oldest temples are there, and the museum is also one of the best.

In December, Mt. Fuji is likely to be visible from the north side of the Shinkansen en route from Tokyo to Kyoto. If it isn't clouded over (as it often is in the summer), it will be visible for a good fifteen to twenty minutes, and loom fairly large, especially between Odawara and Shizuoka.

You will therefore have two chances to see it.

In addition, if you go to Enoshima from Kamakura (a short ride on an old-style train), Fuji is visible from the beach there. It may even be visible from the upper floors of your hotel in Tokyo.

(I first saw Fuji in December 1977, when I was a student in Tokyo. I looked out the window of the 8th floor of our university library and noticed that hills and mountains were visible to the north where I had never seen any before. This made me wonder whether Fuji would be visible to the west, and sure enough, it was.)

Looking at your itinerary, I'd say that you need only three hotel bases: Tokyo, Kyoto, and Hiroshima/Miyajima. Everything else is doable as a day trip from one of those, especially Kamakura.

In order to reach Kamakura on the way from Osaka, you would have to get off the train at Odawara, transfer to a local Tokaido mainline train, and then possibly transfer again at Ofuna. It would be much simpler just to take a Kamakura-bound train from Tokyo Station. They run four to five times an hour. If you go on a weekend, students meet the incoming trains at Kamakura Station and practice their English by acting as volunteer guides.

In order to reach Kamakura on the way from Osaka, you would have to get off the train at Odawara, transfer to a local Tokaido mainline train, and then possibly transfer again at Ofuna. It would be much simpler just to take a Kamakura-bound train from Tokyo Station.
Osaka to Kamakura via Odawara isn't the best plan for several reasons... But changing at Shin Yokohama or Shinagawa might be better than going all the way to Tokyo. From Shinagawa it's straight run on the Yokosuka line down to Kamakura.

(Via Shin Yokohama, the trip is a bit shorter but more convoluted - requires a subway trip to Yokohama and then a transfer to the Yokosuka line).

BTW - I'd also recommend that the OP begin exploring Kamakura at Kita Kamakura station (one stop before Kamakura).

Thanks a lot for all ideas- i made some changes to the itinerary- I think we will skip Hakone and enjoy Mt.Fuji views(if weather permits) from the train and rather spend some more time in Hiroshima/Miyajima and Itsukushima.

I would really like to spend 1 night in ryokan/enjoy onsen, but I am afraid it will dramatically drain my pocket- do you have any suggestions on the place?

Day 1 – 12/12 - Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 2 – 13/12 – Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 3 – 14/12 – Tokyo- Nikko- Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 4 – 15/12 – Tokyo-Kyoto (stay Osaka)
*Day 5 – 16/12 – Osaka (stay Osaka)
*Day 6 – 17/12 - Kyoto (stay Osaka)
*Day 7- 18/12 - Osaka- Nara- Kyoto –(stay Osaka)
*Day 8 – 19/12 –Hiroshima/Miyajima – (stay Hiroshima)
*Day 9 – 20/12 – Hiroshima-Himeji-Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 10- 21/12- Tokyo + Kamakura? – (stay Tokyo)
Day 11- 22/12 – my wife leaves NRT in the morning, I stay in Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 12 -23/12- I leave from NRT arround noon

P.S. * is marked for Japan Rail tickets.

We plan to couchsurf most of the time, but in some cases would enjoy a nice, relaxed place with japaneese spirit.

.... I would avoid Osaka completely and spend 4 days in Kyoto or maybe 3 there and 1 night in Nara. Miyajima would be a unique and memorable place to spend a night too. I have only day tripped there.

I also suggest reading the excellent sticky "Japan (Tokyo and beyond) Master Thread" that
jib71 manages. It contains a lot of great info. thanks jib71!
:-)

...
Day 1 – 12/12 - Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 2 – 13/12 – Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 3 – 14/12 – Tokyo- Nikko- Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 4 – 15/12 – Tokyo-Kyoto (stay Osaka)
*Day 5 – 16/12 – Osaka (stay Osaka)
*Day 6 – 17/12 - Kyoto (stay Osaka)
*Day 7- 18/12 - Osaka- Nara- Kyoto –(stay Osaka)
*Day 8 – 19/12 –Hiroshima/Miyajima – (stay Hiroshima)
*Day 9 – 20/12 – Hiroshima-Himeji-Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 10- 21/12- Tokyo + Kamakura? – (stay Tokyo)
Day 11- 22/12 – my wife leaves NRT in the morning, I stay in Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 12 -23/12- I leave from NRT arround noon ...
This looks a lot more manageable.

You can make it even easier by putting enough clothes and whatnot into a small overnight bag or rucksack for 2 days before you check out of your hotel in Osaka. Have them ship the rest of your luggage to your next hotel in Tokyo using the excellent takkyubin forwarding service. Mark the tag "Hold for Arrival December xx, 2009." Use the overnight bag for your stay in Hiroshima and have the rest of your stuff waiting when you arrive in Tokyo. It is much easier to find a coin locker at Himeji large enough for a small bag than for large luggage.

This looks a lot more manageable.

You can make it even easier by putting enough clothes and whatnot into a small overnight bag or rucksack for 2 days before you check out of your hotel in Osaka. Have them ship the rest of your luggage to your next hotel in Tokyo using the excellent takkyubin forwarding service. Mark the tag "Hold for Arrival December xx, 2009." Use the overnight bag for your stay in Hiroshima and have the rest of your stuff waiting when you arrive in Tokyo. It is much easier to find a coin locker at Himeji large enough for a small bag than for large luggage.

One comment about the Himeji station lockers. I was there this year in the spring, and there are now a lot more lockers there. It was during cherry blossom time and there were a lot of large lockers available. They cost 400-500 yen. Smaller ones which i used costs 200 yen ( i have a backpack)
My uncle used a 400 yen large locker. I don't think you'll have a problem finding any lockers in December.

As for you staying in Osaka and not in Kyoto at all - personally i think would be a mistake. I don;t know what your budget is, but some of the nicest ryokans are in Kyoto. Osaka is not much different from Tokyo. It's like a mini-Tokyo. The people there are nicer and they speak with an accent but as a gaijin, you wouldn't notice it anyways. Also, there isn't really a lot to see in Osaka.

... As for you staying in Osaka and not in Kyoto at all - personally i think would be a mistake. I don;t know what your budget is, but some of the nicest ryokans are in Kyoto. Osaka is not much different from Tokyo. It's like a mini-Tokyo. The people there are nicer and they speak with an accent but as a gaijin, you wouldn't notice it anyways. Also, there isn't really a lot to see in Osaka.
I agree here. I always enjoy staying in Kyoto. Doing daytrips from the large, efficient Kyoto Station to Nara, Osaka, etc is a snap. It just seems nicer and quieter than Osaka, which is not much different from Tokyo.

In any of these cities (save Miyajima) you can stay at a Welcome Inn ryokan for the same price as a business hotel. You won't have all the bells and whistles of a high-end ryokan, but you'll get the sleeping on futons/communal bath and possibly onsen experience on the cheap.

However, if you are couchsurfing, chances are you'll have much of the low-end ryokan experience right there.

I think your revised itin looks good. I echo some comments that Osaka may not be worth as much of your time, as it is really just a smaller, Kansai-flavored Tokyo to the untrained tourist's eye, as opposed to Kyoto which is dramatically different. I always like to suggest a visit to Kobe as well- not essential to a first time trip to Japan, but a nice coastal city with a different feel from all the others on your list, and right near Osaka and Kyoto on a railpass.

But I think you hit pretty much all the highlights.

I wish we could put a flashing disclaimer on the top of this board that just reads "VISITING MT FUJI IS NOT WORTH YOUR TIME!!!!"
Or we could make a list of Japan travel myths:
1) Mt Fuji is a magical place to visit
2) Touring Japan is extremely expensive
Hmmm, maybe its time for a new thread ;)

I agree with the advice to stay in Kyoto instead of Osaka.

Osaka has its fans, but for the first-time visitor, it looks like just another city. Kyoto looks different from Tokyo and serves as a fine base for visiting the rest of the region.

Just don't expect Kyoto to look like the set of a Kurosawa movie--it has a lot of modern buildings interspersed among the traditional buildings and historic sites. Osaka, which was bombed to smithereens during World War II, has almost nothing old. Even its castle is a reconstruction, complete with elevators.

Bear in mind when planning that the clocks aren't adjusted during the winter in Japan. In mid December, sunrise is typically at 6:45 and the sun will have set by 4:45pm.
As so many sightseeing attractions don't open until 10am (9am if you're lucky) you'll have a very short period in which to view things (i.e. Hakone and Kamakura in the same day would have been a real challenge but Nara and Kyoto in the same day would be similarly difficult)

sunrise & sunset calculator here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=248&month=12&year=2009&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1

I agree with the advice to stay in Kyoto instead of Osaka.
Just don't expect Kyoto to look like the set of a Kurosawa movie ....

Actually, it looks like the set of Blade Runner, at least around the train station. I remember reading somewhere that this isn't coincidental, that Ridley Scott modeled his future LA after that area of Kyoto.

Lurking replicants or not, if you're depending on public transit, the station area is a good place to stay, since the trains get you most places you will want to go, and the buses stop right out side it (if I remember right the buses will get you to the subway system fairly quickly.) So staying by the station can be convenient and save you some time. I found also that there were a lot of acceptable and cheap (for Tokyo) restaurants in that area, both in the station and around it, including a bunch of take out noodle and sushi places.

Yes, the bus plaza and ticket office are right outside Kyoto Station. You can get a 24-hour pass that's good for the entire system, and it's a bargain if you're going to be doing a lot of sightseeing or traveling out to rural areas like Ohara.

I used to have a map of Kyoto that had all the bus routes marked out. Perhaps it is still available from either the Tourist Information Office or the bus ticket office

I haven't been to Kyoto for a few years, but I believe the subway is connected to the train station by an underground passageway.

In any case, there are hotels in all price ranges in the station area, and you're still within easy walking distance of the two Honganji temples and the little Buddhist paraphernalia shops that serve them.

I remember reading somewhere that this isn't coincidental, that Ridley Scott modeled his future LA after that area of Kyoto.

I heard that his inspiration was the scramble crossing at Shibuya and its environs.

....the subway is indeed connected to the train station by an underground passageway.

http://www.kpic.or.jp/english/ = tourist info (9th floor of Isetan, South Side). Some employees speak excellent english. Internet access too.

1 day bus pass = 500 yen. Buy at convenience stores. Only useful if you have a good map, compass, and sense of direction

Nishi Honganji buddhist temple is 10 minutes north on station on foot

... 1 day bus pass = 500 yen. Buy at convenience stores. Only useful if you have a good map, compass, and sense of direction...
For those who will be in and around Kyoto for more than 1 day, the prepaid bus/subway card is probably a better deal. In either 1000y or 3000y denominations, it works on buses and the subway and is good for as long as the prepaid money lasts. Purchase at the bus transit office right outside the Karasuma exit of Kyoto Station between the bus stops and the taxi stands.

The TIC on the 9th floor of Kyoto Station (not in the Isetan store but across the breezeway) gives out a free tourist map that has a very good bus route guide. Most tourist sites are on the "pink" tourist routes, #100, 101 and 102. There are several regular city lines that get to all the sites too but you need to know which and where.

While applying for permission is a bother and the tours are escorted, perfunctory and short, the old imperial family's teahouse style (sukiyazukuri) summer villa outside Kyoto will sum up a uniquely Japanese aesthetic in one visit. Korea and China haven't come in this direction architecturally, despite the tea culture in Japan having originated in China (like almost everything there, which makes the current Japanese disaffection for Chinese rather ironic) - so this is a truly unique Japanese building and the gardens, while tended to prissy overkill, are considered among the finest in the country. The Shokintei teahouse on the grounds is a superb sample of a classical teahouse.

If you have the time and inclination, here's how to apply:

http://www.japanvisitor.com/index.php?cID=359&pID=1580

Just as an aside, and for your reference (for lulls in cocktail party conversation), in Kyoto, one famous way to convey you want your guests to leave is to offer them ochazuke (green tea over steamed white rice with condiments). Such is the role of semantics in the history of cultural misunderstandings.

despite the tea culture in Japan having originated in China (like almost everything there, which makes the current Japanese disaffection for Chinese rather ironic)
Ah yeah. The Japanese disaffection for Chinese. That's what this thread should really be about, eh?

Give it up, already.

I forgot to suggest you also ask in Tokyo about applying for permission to visit Katsura; the Kunaicho (Imperial Household Agency) there may also be able to issue you the permission more easily if the online application is confusing, perhaps when you are in Tokyo. Your hotel concierge can verify where to inquire. I wonder what they mean about a lottery?

It truly is a quintessential Japanese place and well worth the bureaucratic hassles to get in. Winter may be a bit bleak - I've only been in summer, spring and fall, years ago, but I imagine even winter there will regale your sensibilities if you have any interest at all in traditional architecture and the sukiyazukuri style, which as I said is uniquely Japanese.

Actually, it looks like the set of Blade Runner, at least around the train station. I remember reading somewhere that this isn't coincidental, that Ridley Scott modeled his future LA after that area of Kyoto.

I guess that would be true in Smidgen's world, where time can run backwards. Blade Runner is from 1982. The "spaceship" Kyoto Station wasn't built until the late 90's.

I guess that would be true in Smidgen's world, where time can run backwards. Blade Runner is from 1982. The "spaceship" Kyoto Station wasn't built until the late 90's.

I didn't mean the station looked like Bladerunner, I said the neighborhood around it did, which is true.

I didn't mean the station looked like Bladerunner, I said the neighborhood around it did, which is true.

No it doesn't, and no, it didn't.

The station architecture is supposed to symbolize a temple gate, if I am not mistaken. South of the station is the ghetto area of Kyoto, north indescript urbanity for several blocks.

The station architecture is supposed to symbolize a temple gate, if I am not mistaken. South of the station is the ghetto area of Kyoto, north indescript urbanity for several blocks.

"Temple gate" might be a rationalization that someone provided after the fact. I don't see it myself. I believe that one of the rejected proposals for the station building had a more obvious reference to temple gate and would have allowed North-South traffic to pass through - rather than being diverted around.

Day 1 – 12/12 - Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 2 – 13/12 – Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 3 – 14/12 – Tokyo- Nikko- Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
*Day 4 – 15/12 – Tokyo-Kyoto (stay Osaka)
*Day 5 – 16/12 – Osaka (stay Osaka)
*Day 6 – 17/12 - Kyoto (stay Osaka)
*Day 7- 18/12 - Osaka- Nara- Kyoto –(stay Osaka)
*Day 8 – 19/12 –Hiroshima/Miyajima – (stay Hiroshima)
*Day 9 – 20/12 – Hiroshima-Himeji-Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 10- 21/12- Tokyo + Kamakura? – (stay Tokyo)
Day 11- 22/12 – my wife leaves NRT in the morning, I stay in Tokyo (stay Tokyo)
Day 12 -23/12- I leave from NRT arround noon ...

Nikko is very beautiful and staying overnight in an onsen is a must-have experience if you come to Japan. A little out of the way is Honke Bankyu Bankyu Ryokan. Good price for onsen and highly recommended. You get to eat in a 300 plus year old building. There is lots to actually see in Nikko as well. All the temples, the bridge and of course don't forget the Nikko brewery. Japanese beer is amazing. You can also drive up along the lake and then go visit the many waterfalls around the area.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g298182-d1094398-Reviews-Honke_Bankyu_Bankyu_Ryokan-Nikko_Tochigi_Prefecture_Kanto.html

I would say skip Kamakura and go to Fuji/Hakone instead.

When you are in Tokyo itself, a good siteseeing trip is go to Meiji Shrine, and then walk down Takeshita dori in Harajuku to check out all the fashionable young kids. Then walk down to Omotesando, to the fashion district.

I live in Tokyo and I take people around all the time and this is one of their fav areas.

Good Luck!
h

which as I said is uniquely Japanese.

Yes... as you mentioned three times. It seems like such a neutral comment when separated from your previous aside that almost everything in Japan originated in China, "which makes the current Japanese disaffection for Chinese rather ironic". However, when presented in that context, it becomes a statement with an agenda. It's a transparent attempt to antagonize.

However, you're not going to get any sympathy for your point of view with such a gauche approach - This isn't a thread about whether or not Japanese culture is unique or derivative. This isn't a thread about whether Japanese people like and respect people from the rest of Asia. This is a thread to help someone who wants to know if he has a realistic itinerary for his holiday in Japan. So give it up.

I had a few conversations like this with a manager at a Korean supplier that I was doing business with in the 1990s: "How ironic that Japan writes such horrible lies about us, since Japanese people's ability to write was imported from us," and "I guess I should take a holiday on the Japanese emperor's birthday too, since their imperial family came from Korea, like everything else in Japan". etc.

Eventually, over time, he realized that the people he was dealing with didn't hate him or his country, but they just found his thinly disguised attempts to cause angst to be very dull. So he quit. (I mean he quit grumbling. He didn't quit his job supplying stuff to Japanese clients. That would have required genuine pride rather than posturing).

We've gotten sidetracked somewhat, but offering my own two cents, I like the vast flight of stairs that go nowhere in Kyoto Station, reminsecent of that staircase at that TV station next to the former Meridien in Odaiba in Tokyo, which is also huge and doesn't really lead anywhere.

If we're talking about futuristic landscapes, I found the experience of riding Osaka's Kanjo loop line surreal in spots. There are stretches where you're riding on elevated rails between apartment buildings and can look right into people's living rooms.

I rather like Kyoto Station with its amazing escalators to infinity.