bmi diamond club - Cancelled flight - what assistance can I expect?

Here's the score.

I have a redemption flight booked in F/C BKK-LHR-EDI. It is some way in the future. When I booked it, it was all on the same day, leaving BKK at Sunday lunchtime and arriving in EDI on Sunday evening. BD has cancelled the LHR-EDI flight, making it impossible for me to arrive back in EDI that evening using the TG flight. Since I have a business meeting on the Monday in London, I had hoped to go home to EDI, sleep, change into business clothes and do EDI-LHR-EDI on the Monday. I would, of course, earn status and miles on the Monday.

BD Pre-Travel Senior Support has offered me room only for the Sunday night and a flight on the Monday. I said I would consider this if they were prepared to give me the miles and status I would miss by not flying in revenue on the Monday. That's a grand total of 2400 status and 2700 destinations miles. PTS said no way.

OK, I said. In that case perhaps you can reroute me so that I leave the Far East on Sunday and arrive home on the same day. The computer said there was no such route. I replied that I had found a route - KUL-LHR-EDI using MH and BD and this would be acceptable to me. PTS said that they couldn't use MH flights as they were not *A - I could only reroute on flights that showed availability. I replied that I thought the EU Passenger Charter required them to reroute me. PTS replied that because they had given me adequate notice of the cancellation, they were obliged only to offer me hotel/next day flight or a refund.

I have looked at the Charter and as far as I can tell, because I have had more than 2 weeks notice I am not entitled to compensation, but I am still entitled to be offered rerouting.

Does anyone have advice or experience to offer?

MH? Status miles? Not going to happen I'm afraid.

You've already accepted that you COULD stay over in London on the Sunday night so that weakens your negotiating position if you then try to start insisting on home on Sunday or bust.

Not sure on what can be done in practical terms though. You're more likely to get a ticket on the Caledonian Sleeper reimbursed by bmi than a flight on MH or status miles IMO.

I honestly think you may need to align your expectations to what that they really can do for you, as I don't think you are close to it at the moment.

Considering this is 'some way in the future', I think bmi have gone above and beyond in giving you a room for the night seeing they can't get home until the next morning.

...and have you actually booked your EDI-LHR-EDI for the Monday yet?

I'm detecting some hostility. Perhaps I am being unreasonable.

I thought that the Passenger Charter required BD to give me a room for the night along with meals (i.e. not room only). I also thought it required the airline to offer rerouting.

Extracts from Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council

Article 5

Cancellation

1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
(i) they are informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or
(ii) they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or
(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
2. When passengers are informed of the cancellation, an explanation shall be given concerning possible alternative transport.
3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
4. The burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier.

Article 8

Right to reimbursement or re-routing

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,
- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.
2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.
3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.

Article 9

Right to care

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
(b) hotel accommodation in cases
- where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or
- where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).
2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.
3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.

I'm detecting some hostility.

If you think that's hostile, you should check out some of the US airline forums.

If you think that's hostile, you should check out some of the US airline forums.
:D

(and I haven't booked the flights for the Monday but they would be in a flexible, refundable class so that's not really an issue)

Considering this is 'some way in the future', I think bmi have gone above and beyond in giving you a room for the night seeing they can't get home until the next morning.

...and have you actually booked your EDI-LHR-EDI for the Monday yet?BD have not gone above and beyond by offering overnight accommodation as they are required to to so under the Reg, regardless of the length of notice. OTOH, the OP's interpretation of the Reg as implying that he has a right to insist on whatever routing of his own choosing on whichever airline is highly doubtful too.

BD have offered rerouting. This may not be the OP's favourite but they have offered rerouting. I agree with RAPC that it is more sensible for the OP to work with PTS to find a mutually acceptable solution. Perhaps the OP might wish to investigate with PTS on the possibility of leaving a day earlier (i.e. Sat) if the OP wants to back to EDI on the Sunday? Alternatively, ask whether there would be a possibility of cancelling and getting a refund for the LHR-EDI segment of the LHR-EDI-LHR booking assuming it has already been booked?

I certainly am no expert, but while a standalone LHR-EDI flight is covered, given the full ticket originates ex. BKK on TG, surely EC regs do not apply? In short, can you apply EC regs to one sector in the future, part of a multi sector ticket, which originates in a country with a first sector operated by non EU airline, which are not covered.

I certainly am no expert, but while a standalone LHR-EDI flight is covered, given the full ticket originates ex. BKK on TG, surely EC regs do not apply? In short, can you apply EC regs to one sector in the future, part of a multi sector ticket, which originates in a country with a first sector operated by non EU airline, which are not covered.
EC Regs apply for any flight which starts, ends or goes through the EU. The Regs also explicitly say they extend to flights made under frequent flyer schemes. In fact, I can feel a compensation claim coming on for my delayed arrival in Baku a few weeks ago when BD cancelled my reward flight. €600 would help...

EC Regs apply for any flight which starts, ends or goes through the EU.

They most certainly do not.

The protection accorded to passengers departing from an airport located in a Member State should be extended to those leaving an airport located in a third country for one situated in a Member State, when a Community carrier operates the flight.

EC Regs apply for any flight which starts, ends or goes through the EU. The Regs also explicitly say they extend to flights made under frequent flyer schemes. In fact, I can feel a compensation claim coming on for my delayed arrival in Baku a few weeks ago when BD cancelled my reward flight. €600 would help...

They don't apply to any flight in the way that you say. I flew IAD-LHR earlier this year on UA. It was delayed by 12 hours, but because it was operated by a US carrier and commenced out of the EU, the EU regs most certainly didn't apply as I found out when I looked into it. I incorrectly thought the same as you to be fair, so was a bit disappointed when the truth came out. The only compo for the delay were some meal vouchers at IAD that I had to argue for.

I genuinely hadn't realized that it applied to all airlines flying out of the EU but only to EU airlines flying into the EU. In that case, in my present situation, it probably does only cover the LHR-EDI bit. Still, I have persuaded myself that I am due some compensation for the cancellation of the GYD flight.

I genuinely hadn't realized that it applied to all airlines flying out of the EU but only to EU airlines flying into the EU. In that case, in my present situation, it probably does only cover the LHR-EDI bit. Still, I have persuaded myself that I am due some compensation for the cancellation of the GYD flight.

As for persuading yourself for the GYD flight, that is the easy bit. Persuading bmi is another matter. ;) Have you used the online service at EU Claim to see if they believe your circumstances are compensation eligible? Might save you some wasted time checking if it is first.

As for persuading yourself for the GYD flight, that is the easy bit. Persuading bmi is another matter. ;) Have you used the online service at EU Claim to see if they believe your circumstances are compensation eligible? Might save you some wasted time checking if it is first.
Thanks - I have just checked. They say that I am eligible to claim so I shall do that. Their fees are steep, so I'll do it myself.

BD have not gone above and beyond by offering overnight accommodation as they are required to to so under the Reg, regardless of the length of notice. OTOH, the OP's interpretation of the Reg as implying that he has a right to insist on whatever routing of his own choosing on whichever airline is highly doubtful too.

BD have offered rerouting. This may not be the OP's favourite but they have offered rerouting. I agree with RAPC that it is more sensible for the OP to work with PTS to find a mutually acceptable solution. Perhaps the OP might wish to investigate with PTS on the possibility of leaving a day earlier (i.e. Sat) if the OP wants to back to EDI on the Sunday?

Agree with this. C'mon, it's a redemption booking, so don't push your luck - since when did schedule changes mean you could be re-routed on any airline you liked? (And why are bmi redemptions about the only place on FT where the EC rule book gets thrown around so liberally?)

There are a number of *A flights leaving BKK in the early hours of Sunday that will get you EDI by early afternoon. Are you departing from KUL? There's always the MS flight leaving KUL at 01:30, getting you to EDI for 1535; that would be *A and mean you wouldn't miss out on dinner in KL before your flight... Acceptable?

Alternatively, take the PTS hotel offer, ask for meals (...yeah, as if you'll be gorging yourself on the Holiday Inn buffet...), and use the dosh saved from your EDI-LHR-EDI trip to do a mileage run of your choice

Unfortunately, the money saved on EDI-LHR-EDI will benefit my employer rather than me. However, I will have toexplain why I have turned uo for a business meeting wearing SE Asia backpacking gear rather than proper business clothes.

Leaving the night before is not acceptable to me - the point of my holiday is to spend time with someone I care for and losing the last night of the holiday is the very last thing I want.

As for why people discuss the EU Passenger Rights Charter, I guess it's because we want to secure our rights under it when airlines seem determined not to give us what we are entitled to. Redemption flights are covered by the charter to just the same extent as flights paid for with cash.

I'm really not fussy about carriers or routes - I had hoped to leave SE Asia and arrive the same day on daytime flights. As a non-sleeper on aircraft, it makes a big difference to me. But as others have pointed out, I'm probably not entitled to such a drastic rerouting.

The wider issue, as has been explained on other threads, is that the cancellation of the later flights to EDI, GLA and other destinations leaves people unable to get home from a whole range of international destinations without an overnight in London.

Surely the compromise solution is to accept the PTS offer on the condition they build a longer stopover into the LHR stay. This way you could nest a revenue ticket LHR to EDI return, chargeable to your employer, that would allow you the same travel plan if that is what is important to you. If your employer won't accept a ticket departing LHR, just break the revenue into two oneways and charge them the sector that departs EDI while soaking up the cost of the other.

Personally I would be more worried about making it into LHR in time for the business meeting on the right day; there seems to be an awful lot riding on the BKK flight being on time.

I honestly think you may need to align your expectations to what that they really can do for you, as I don't think you are close to it at the moment.

I'm detecting some hostility. Perhaps I am being unreasonable.


If you think that's hostile, you should check out some of the US airline forums.

IMHO OP has somewhat unrealistic expectations what an airline would do in a situation like this. Schedules change and flights get dropped/added. That's the way of life.

Surely the compromise solution is to accept the PTS offer on the condition they build a longer stopover into the LHR stay. This way you could nest a revenue ticket LHR to EDI return, chargeable to your employer, that would allow you the same travel plan if that is what is important to you. If your employer won't accept a ticket departing LHR, just break the revenue into two oneways and charge them the sector that departs EDI while soaking up the cost of the other.
That's a constructive idea - I'll see how that works.

Personally I would be more worried about making it into LHR in time for the business meeting on the right day; there seems to be an awful lot riding on the BKK flight being on time.
The TG flight arrives Sunday evening; the meeting is late morning on the Monday. I shouldn't have any difficulty - although I do seem to have had some bad luck with redemptions.

IMHO OP has somewhat unrealistic expectations what an airline would do in a situation like this.
To be fair, this was a point which was well made and which I accepted with good grace some time ago. Part of the reason for posting the thread was to test my ideas out on dispassionate people and see whether I was being brilliantly creative or simply unreasonable. I have my answer.