Southwest Rapid Rewards - RR Vs. Other Programs

Here is the main diff between WN RR and other programs.

WN's is a product that works for infrequent or semi-frequent fliers. It is easy to get the RR award compared to other carriers, especially for someone that doesn't fly every week like many FTers. I was using it with my old job that required less travel. If you don't fly THAT much, you shouldn't bother with other carriers reward programs. Good boarding numbers on A list do not compare in the least with F and Business class upgrades. This only matters to people who rack up 50 thousand miles a year.

However, I have a job now that has me flying twice a week most weeks, and this reduces the value of RR and A-list awards for me due to a few factors:

WN doesn't have a first or business class. Now that I rack up miles quick, first and business upgrades are well within practical range for me, more so when you consider partner programs with car rentals and Amex cards. Now I can sit up front with the comp drinks and the big seats away from the stinking masses in coach. WN does not offer club lounges either.

WN doesn't fly international routes. Although it can take longer to score enough points on other carriers, I can get to Europe by directing my business elsewhere.

WN's A list and BS programs are nice, but only in the context of WN itself. They do not belong to Star Alliance etc. ATA code share to Hawaii no longer exists. West Jet code share is seasonal, and points do not xfer anyhow. Alliance offers more choices.

If WN wants me to put my efforts into their rewards programs, they are going to have to offer more incentives with it, such as A-list/BS assigned seating, a FC section, or a lounge of some kind. Another interesting idea may be to exchange credits for merchandise, as Usairways Dividend miles does with their miles. Develop more of a RR credit "currency" value, outside of extra RR awards for comp. passes.

WN has a good program for infrequent fliers, but when you reach a certain level of frequent flying, the value rapidly diminishes. If and when WN goes international..at least trans North American..the value of RR for the extremely Frequent Flier will shoot up instantly.

Although it might be of little value to some, the Companion Pass is definitely a nice benefit to those who might be flying with their significant others.

WN's is a product that works for infrequent or semi-frequent fliers. It is easy to get the RR award compared to other carriers, especially for someone that doesn't fly every week like many FTers.

Obviously said by someone who does not pay for their own ticket. IMHO, those who pay for their own ticket do not choose an airline based upon a FF program. That is simply a nice side benefit. Free first class and free overseas travel would be wonderful, but they have no bearing on which airline I choose.

Obviously said by someone who does not pay for their own ticket. IMHO, those who pay for their own ticket do not choose an airline based upon a FF program. That is simply a nice side benefit. Free first class and free overseas travel would be wonderful, but they have no bearing on which airline I choose.

USAirways usually matches or beats WN fares these days. Jet Blue and Virgin as well...and their programs offer much more than WN RR.

But the average working class peon who cannot afford tickets of their own more than a few times a year can certainly benefit from WN RR, indeed.

As I said, FF flyers are almost always corporate and do not pay for their own fares..but they get to collect the rewards personally. That's my point. A List cannot compete agressively for those markets.

Ma and Pa Kettle on the otherhand, are unlikely to even collect an RR ticket with their once-every-2-years flights.

Now I can sit up front with the comp drinks and the big seats away from the stinking masses in coach.

...average working class peon who cannot afford tickets of their own more than a few times a year...

Wow. Not sure if your arrogance and condescension are intended to be humorous, but your attitude comes off as a bit elitist, IMHO.

As a business traveler who flies 50 weeks per year, I prefer WN to the competition, and am thrilled about Milwaukee service starting this week. From the well organized boarding process to no-cost refares, I find them much more convenient for frequent travelers.

I have been unimpressed with both United’s RCC and the Delta Sky Club, and would rather sit in the comfortable chairs with accessible power outlets near a WN gate. Many of the things you request (F class cabin, assigned seating, lounge access, and a merchandise catalog) cost money to implement and operate, and are ultimately a distraction from WN’s core competency of efficiently moving passengers and cargo around the country.

Best of luck with the legacies.

Wow. Not sure if your arrogance and condescension are intended to be humorous, but your attitude comes off as a bit elitist, IMHO.

As a business traveler who flies 50 weeks per year, I prefer WN to the competition, and am thrilled about Milwaukee service starting this week. From the well organized boarding process to no-cost refares, I find them much more convenient for frequent travelers.

I have been unimpressed with both United’s RCC and the Delta Sky Club, and would rather sit in the comfortable chairs with accessible power outlets near a WN gate. Many of the things you request (F class cabin, assigned seating, lounge access, and a merchandise catalog) cost money to implement and operate, and are ultimately a distraction from WN’s core competency of efficiently moving passengers and cargo around the country.

Best of luck with the legacies.

If you fly that much, you should seriously run the numbers for other programs. Club Access is much nicer than cushy chairs in the main terminal. So are showers during your layovers, free food (as opposed to the Burger King fast food) and so forth.

Boarding in First or Business is much better than the lightest day on WN, and the ability to pick your own seat when you go online and purchase your tic allows you to have a shot at more comfortable seating. On WN, even BS and A listers can lose out to thru-pax.

RR only gets you so much, and if you are an extreme FF, you can be getting way more than A list offers.

Elitist? I was trying to be sarcastic. But here is the thing about weekly travel, although I am sure I do not have to explain this to you at 100 flights a year...the crowds of infrequent fliers..the confused, the drunk, the overweight, the terrified, and the babies...can be tolerable if you fly a few times a year..but weekly exposure becomes a problem very quickly and impacts the quality of life and work.

Comfort then becomes very very important. There is no sin in luxury offered as a reward for repeat business. It's not that I am "better" than the throngs, it is that I qualify for extra services not offered by WN.

Democratic, proletarian, and egalitarian ideals are very noble until fatty bombatty gets her muffin top in your lap for 3 hours. Twice a week.

WN is in need of revenue generating marketing concepts because their model is becoming obsolete and fuel hedges will soon be gone. EBCI was such an attempt. But investing in lounges, a fc section, or currency miles/credits might actually generate it by offering incentives to people like us who have 100 flights a year to book. I spend upwards of 40k flying around the country..if WN could loop FF people away from other programs, it might pay for itself.

We all believe that we are not unique or unusual. I believe that there is a significant number of us who fly very regularly and pay for our own tickets. Based upon the number of people who look like business travelers that I see on WN, which is not significantly less than I see on US ( my second most used airline ), I think that there are many in my position - regular business travelers who find WN the best airline for them.

I have no concerns about what RR 2.0 will bring, because I am really not all that much concerned about what RR 1.0 does or does not do. WN works for me because of price and flexibility and any side benefits of a RR program are simply a plus.

WN is in need of revenue generating marketing concepts because their model is becoming obsolete and fuel hedges will soon be gone. EBCI was such an attempt.

Unfortunately, I agree with you here. WN is no longer necessarily the low cost provider, and so is becoming less a part of my airline mix. The problem is that as it becomes more and more like a legacy, it is less and less my airline.

Here is the main diff between WN RR and other programs.

WN's is a product that works for infrequent or semi-frequent fliers. It is easy to get the RR award compared to other carriers, especially for someone that doesn't fly every week like many FTers.

I completely disagree. I think WN is a dreadful program for infrequent fliers. Problem one is that credits expire after 24 months. On most other carriers, miles don't expire as long as the account is kept active. An infrequent flier who takes 3 roundtrips/year, 1000 miles each way, earns a free trip in just over 4 years.

Compare that to Southwest. Without partner credits, our hypothetical flier might well never earn a free ticket, (perpetually having 12 credits, as old ones expire as new ones are earned).

Problem two is that once earned, the rewards are issued automatically and also expire. Now that WN has capacity controls on awards, the infrequent traveler may have trouble using it before expiration. Again, the legacy airlines would allow the award to be used years after it is earned.

For the trip-a-month traveler, WN may work well, but for the infrequent traveler, a legacy is a better choice.

WN doesn't have a first or business class. The greatest luxury for me in airline travel is a non-stop flight, not first or business class. I will take a non-stop flight on any US carrier over first or business with a connection on another carrier. FF program is my third criteria when I buy a ticket, whether for work or personal use, the first two are price and schedule (which it is very hard for a connecting flights on any airline to beat a non-stop flight on another airline). In Kansas City this means I usually fly Southwest because they have the most flights of any airline to the most destinations non-stop, which means even if I connect on them they often offer a better schedule.

If you fly that much, you should seriously run the numbers for other programs. Club Access is much nicer than cushy chairs in the main terminal. So are showers during your layovers, free food (as opposed to the Burger King fast food) and so forth.This is a joke, right? How much cheese and pretzels can you stand to eat? I don't mind nibbling on some of the offersings in airline clubs in the US, but Burger King is a meal, the food offered in most airline clubs in the US definitely is not. If I need to eat a meal, I go to Burger King or some other restaurant, even in an airport where I have lounge access.


WN is in need of revenue generating marketing concepts because their model is becoming obsolete and fuel hedges will soon be gone.This is complete nonsense. WN is buying hedges all the time, and the only reason they will "be gone" is if and when they decide to stop purchasing them. Beyond that incorrect statement, what other basis is there for stating their "model is obsolete"?

..the crowds of infrequent fliers..the confused, the drunk, the overweight, the terrified, and the babies...can be tolerable if you fly a few times a year..but weekly exposure becomes a problem very quickly and impacts the quality of life and work...

Compared to the miserable attitude of the employees at DeltaUSAirUnitedEct, the twisted gotcha rules and regulations, and the hoops to claim a reward ticket, I'll take the friendly SWA employees, simple, clear rules, and usually available awards (and the incomparable Companion Pass) any time.

Thanks for leaving me your seat.

The greatest luxury for me in airline travel is a non-stop flight, not first or business class.

^^^

I travel 20+ times a year, all leisure, most with my wife. Her companion pass saves me thousands of dollars.

Don't underestimate the benefit of the companion pass.

I have a Priority Pass, don't need WN to give me lounges, I will leech off the legacy ones! I have never seen food at a lounge that would substitute for a meal nor have time to shower (since I always fly direct), but I could see how those items may have value to some.

As for points and usage, my coworker flies CO only and I fly WN only and we were comparing notes last week. We mainly fly the same amount (80+ segments per year), I have a CP and he is a Gold Elite. He has about 100K miles and I have about 94 RRs. So he can fly 4 domestic rounds or maybe a trip or two accross the pond and I can fly about 6 domestic rounds and no where else. The difference to me is that when we fly with our wives, he really only has 2 domestic rounds (2 awards per trip) and I have a full 6 (1 award per trip, use CP for wife). His other problem is that he flies a lot of routes that CO has switched to Embraers with no first class.

I think it really depends on your situation in the end. It sounds like legacy carriers are better for you so enjoy them. I still perfer WN for the close in airports, no change fees, and CP system. I do wish they would change the international situation and I think in time they will. Until then I will just keep having to apply for 3 AA credit cards per year (now going for 4 years straight) and flying to Europe in First Class for free :D. I know, I know, life is unfair!

I travel 20+ times a year, all leisure, most with my wife. Her companion pass saves me thousands of dollars.

Don't underestimate the benefit of the companion pass.

We have saved about $3000 since July with the CP!! I keep a spreadsheet with the price I paid or the going rate if I used an award to keep track of this. That is real money that we would have paid to travel. It also encourages us to go more places and see our friends as often as we would like.

I still cannot believe how easy it is to use the CP as well. I have never had one problem getting a CP ticket. If I am able to book a flight for myself, I have always been able to book the CP too.

I have a Priority Pass, don't need WN to give me lounges, I will leech off the legacy ones! I have never seen food at a lounge that would substitute for a meal nor have time to shower (since I always fly direct), but I could see how those items may have value to some.

As for points and usage, my coworker flies CO only and I fly WN only and we were comparing notes last week. We mainly fly the same amount (80+ segments per year), I have a CP and he is a Gold Elite. He has about 100K miles and I have about 94 RRs. So he can fly 4 domestic rounds or maybe a trip or two accross the pond and I can fly about 6 domestic rounds and no where else. The difference to me is that when we fly with our wives, he really only has 2 domestic rounds (2 awards per trip) and I have a full 6 (1 award per trip, use CP for wife). His other problem is that he flies a lot of routes that CO has switched to Embraers with no first class.

I think it really depends on your situation in the end. It sounds like legacy carriers are better for you so enjoy them. I still perfer WN for the close in airports, no change fees, and CP system. I do wish they would change the international situation and I think in time they will. Until then I will just keep having to apply for 3 AA credit cards per year (now going for 4 years straight) and flying to Europe in First Class for free :D. I know, I know, life is unfair!

USAirways dividend miles, at the silver level (25,000 miles) eliminates bag fees and most change fees as well as provides Companion benefits for upgrades and "choice seating". INCLUDING companion benefits of the security lines.

USAirways dividend miles, at the silver level (25,000 miles) eliminates bag fees and most change fees as well as provides Companion benefits for upgrades and "choice seating". INCLUDING companion benefits of the security lines.

And they let the companion fly for free? I am not really sure I care if my companion can upgrade if I have to actually pay for their ticket.

I also like the fact that anyone on WN gets free bags and no change fees.

So in this scenario, the only benefit is companion upgrade and security??? I can see how those have some worth, but I paid $5 bucks for my companion to fly accross the country with me. That is a benefit worth its weight in gold!

I travel 20+ times a year, all leisure, most with my wife. Her companion pass saves me thousands of dollars.

Don't underestimate the benefit of the companion pass.

Exact same deal for me; it's worth thousands of tax-free dollars. Best perk in the airline business BY FAR, which is why I imagine it will be gutted in RR 2.0.

Lounges? A joke.

The 24-month expiration argument is for uncreative people. Get a WN Visa and put some on there. Rent a few cars for $18 a day and a quad bonus. Jump on the extra credit offers. Put in a few nights at Choice or somewhere. Figure out Amtrak. Get a 50K Amex Membership Rewards bonus for signing up and convert at 1500 per.

Problem trivially solved.

If you don't fly enough in 24 months to get a free ticket, how is switching to some mileage-based airline that gives perhaps 500-1500 miles a flight going to help you? DL more and more takes 50K to find a seat.

My dilemma is RR credits coming in TOO FAST. I have about 9 RR tickets piled up and I'm not using them quickly enough. My CP renews at the end of April and I am already up near 85 credits. I can only imagine my situation if I traveled for business.

Some of you guys are going to have to bring better arguments if you come in this forum with that stuff.

And pinworm, there's nothing saying that you can't go for CP on WN and also get top status on a legacy, if you fly that much. Thereafter, you could fly whichever one worked for that specific trip. Nonstop, first class, Companion, 737 vs. RJ, time of departure, availability, bonus offers, whatever you valued most. Best of both worlds.

USAirways dividend miles, at the silver level (25,000 miles) eliminates bag fees and most change fees as well as provides Companion benefits for upgrades and "choice seating". INCLUDING companion benefits of the security lines.

Ok, I have to call BULL here. Don't EVEN begin to compare US Air with SWA. I was US Air Gold for 5 years, and the wife was Silver. Free tix? very tough to get, and forget about online.

Gate lice, Cattle call, the boarding process there was insane. To board when they called Gold flyers, I had to run a gauntlet to get to the gate.

The service, horrendous. The attitude, cold and unfriendly. The FA's would huddle in the galley after making their one pass through the cabin. They were cowed and beaten by upper management. And that is the service in First. So they gave me a 2 across leather seat instead of three across. It was FILTHY! And, a direct flight? not so much. Customer Service was brutal. Long wait times, and rarely a positive resolution.

I was involved in a consumer group that tried to communicate with and offer suggestions to the US Air brass. Does the word cockroach ring a bell?

I walked away from thousands of US Air miles and status 5 years ago, rather that ever fly them again.

Yeah, go ahead, tell me they have improved in the past 5 years with the mergers and cutbacks. HA!

Count me in the group that's currently L'ing OL that we've chosen US Airways as our beacon of legacy-carrier greatness. :D

People go way too far in trying to compare WN to one of the major global-alliance carriers. Their business models and purposes are completely different.

My $0.02: a smart traveler who lives in a U.S. city well-covered by WN is probably best served by learning the WN system and understanding when it delivers greater value then your favorite legacy carrier. I've always held one or two elite statuses and I still fly WN four or five times a year.

The whole take that it's "Walmart in the air", "Greyhound with wings", or somehow dirtier than other airlines is total misinformation, frequently extended into hyperbole on these boards.

As I said, FF flyers are almost always corporate and do not pay for their own fares..but they get to collect the rewards personally. That's my point. A List cannot compete agressively for those markets.


I'm a corporate traveler and fly WN most of the time. Plentiful award inventory, lots of direct flights, no fees for changes, and a fast & orderly boarding process are the best benefits for me.

My dilemma is RR credits coming in TOO FAST. I have about 9 RR tickets piled up and I'm not using them quickly enough. My CP renews at the end of April and I am already up near 85 credits. I can only imagine my situation if I traveled for business.



FWIW, I successfully negotiated with my employer (who pays for my tickets) to compensate me the value of the tickets when I travel on an award... (Granted I have to prove the value, based on THE booking I'm using it for, but a small thing really...)

This doesn't help, of course, when you're only traveling enough to just earn a CP, but when you're over it for the year, not having those segments go to waste and still not losing their value = a good thing... (This won't actually benefit me until next year, because I'm earning my first CP in the first week of December this year... )

I completely disagree. I think WN is a dreadful program for infrequent fliers. Problem one is that credits expire after 24 months. On most other carriers, miles don't expire as long as the account is kept active. An infrequent flier who takes 3 roundtrips/year, 1000 miles each way, earns a free trip in just over 4 years.

Compare that to Southwest. Without partner credits, our hypothetical flier might well never earn a free ticket, (perpetually having 12 credits, as old ones expire as new ones are earned).

Problem two is that once earned, the rewards are issued automatically and also expire. Now that WN has capacity controls on awards, the infrequent traveler may have trouble using it before expiration. Again, the legacy airlines would allow the award to be used years after it is earned.

For the trip-a-month traveler, WN may work well, but for the infrequent traveler, a legacy is a better choice.

In the past 12 months, I've made a total of 8 round trip flights (7 personal, one business). In the past 365 days, I've earned three round trip standard awards, and will have another when my Chase statement closes later this week.

I don't think I'm a particularly frequent flier, but RR seems to serve me pretty dang well.

I'll add one: WN is the best program out there for someone who does a lot of short car rentals.

Heck, even if you don't like WN for your normal business travel, if you follow rental car promos closely you can rack some serious credits. I tend to stick with National during their 1-2-Free periods, but outside of that I'll go wherever the current 3x or 4x RR credit promo is.

Exception to this rule is usually the 1-day rental. In that case, the 3x-4x promos generally don't work, leaving BD, VS, or perhaps Marriott more attractive rental car earning options.

WN's is a product that works for infrequent or semi-frequent fliers....

...and for those who fly predominantly between NorCal and SoCal (with maybe a little LAS and PHX thrown in). We don't particularly care to fly in those silly little Barbie jets driven by more junior air staff.

WN doesn't have a first or business class. Now that I rack up miles quick, first and business upgrades....


F and J are largely irrelevant for flights that are 2 hours or less....unless you're significantly too large for the narrow seats.

I've been racking up AA miles easily without any BIS...and yeah, it sure was quite a treat to redeem them for TransPac J seats....on CX. :D

Elitist? I was trying to be sarcastic. But here is the thing about weekly travel, although I am sure I do not have to explain this to you at 100 flights a year...the crowds of infrequent fliers..the confused, the drunk, the overweight, the terrified, and the babies...can be tolerable if you fly a few times a year..but weekly exposure becomes a problem very quickly and impacts the quality of life and work.


I do about 75-100 segments per year...using my own money. I've gotten used to seeing and/or having to deal with the crowds of infrequent fliers. I actually get more annoyed at DYKWIA types.

1. Fly 100 o/w on WN - 6 domestic r/t & CP - $1800 plus $3000 - total $4800
2. Fly 100 o/w on UA, AA - 200k miles (since you elite) and 6/8 SWU - $3000 plus $2500 - total $5500

No change fees on WN - FC on AA, UA, Skykits (ofter $100/ $150 per every second/ third flight) on UA.

Pretty close. Still for 100 flights a year UA, AA are a little better then WN. May be very different for you if you don't need CP or SWU.

1. Fly 100 o/w on WN - 6 domestic r/t & CP - $1800 plus $3000 - total $4800
2. Fly 100 o/w on UA, AA - 200k miles (since you elite) and 6/8 SWU - $3000 plus $2500 - total $5500

No change fees on WN - FC on AA, UA, Skykits (ofter $100/ $150 per every second/ third flight) on UA.

Pretty close. Still for 100 flights a year UA, AA are a little better then WN. May be very different for you if you don't need CP or SWU.

You value UA miles at 1.5 cents each? You want to buy some?

Skykits (ofter $100/ $150 per every second/ third flight) on UA.Are those Skykits received for the great service UA delivers? I'm not sure how on earth you could classify receiving a Skykit every second or third flight as being a benefit in any way.

Are those Skykits received for the great service UA delivers? I'm not sure how on earth you could classify receiving a Skykit every second or third flight as being a benefit in any way.

If my flight is 20-30 min late, I will get $100-$200. Try it on WN. Or WN is never late? Come on! There are benefits and negatives in all of them. No perfect airline in this world.

You value UA miles at 1.5 cents each? You want to buy some?

How much will you pay for a flight to Europe? What about in J to Europe? If you need to go there, it's worth much more then 1,5 cents a mile. if you don't fly anywhere outside US, then it might be worth nothing to you.

Even in US, I can get a domestic ticket in US for TODAY to fly on UA for 25k miles plus $5 tax. No other fees. Look up the price in cash.

As i already said, there are benefits and downside to each of them.

You value UA miles at 1.5 cents each? You want to buy some?

1.5c is kind of a typical average valuation for FF miles around here. Actually, I usually try to get closer to 2 cents for a "hard value" award. (A coach award I'd otherwise have to buy with cash.)

I'd never buy them for that, but on the value side that's where I'd put 'em. I value one RR award at about $300. I just redeemed a bunch of them for an upcoming trip that would have been $158 each way.

If I actually had 100 very short domestic one-way segments on which WN and UA/AA were truly a head-to-head dead-even option, I'd probably do them on WN. (A mid- or high-tier elite would receive 100k miles for doing this, not the 200k in the example above.)

My logic is this: if I'm traveling that much, I'm probably going to rack a fat pile of Marriott points, which means I can always generate AA miles to handle international award travel. I'd lose *G but always have OW low-tier, so I'd at least have one alliance on which I could continue to fly Y if necessary.

How much will you pay for a flight to Europe? What about in J to Europe? If you need to go there, it's worth much more then 1,5 cents a mile. if you don't fly anywhere outside US, then it might be worth nothing to you.

Even in US, I can get a domestic ticket in US for TODAY to fly on UA for 25k miles plus $5 tax. No other fees. Look up the price in cash.

As i already said, there are benefits and downside to each of them.

The only catch there is that the most expensive flights today aren't going to have XY seats. So you'll probably be spending 50k to get the seat.

Still, if you absolutely have to fly, it can be worth it. I've redeemed rulebuster coach awards a few times in my life. I'll gladly turn over 50k miles to keep $1000 in real cash in my pocket.

I don't ordinarily buy int'l C/F with my own money, so I don't really obsess about the value per mile. I redeemed an 11-segment F trip to Europe a couple years ago (mostly on LH metal) for 120k UA and $100 or so in taxes. For kicks, I built it in Orbitz and got an $18,000 price tag. :D Of course, nobody pays $18k - even the companies who actually fly their top execs in int'l F are getting very large discounts to do so. But what if LH had come to me and said "We'll sell you this itin for $2,500"? Would I have bought it? I don't know...maybe. So for me, it still felt like a good use of miles...

If my flight is 20-30 min late, I will get $100-$200. Try it on WN. Or WN is never late? Come on! There are benefits and negatives in all of them. No perfect airline in this world.Even counting flights that are late on WN as a "problem", I don't have a problem with them every second or third flight.

I am a little surprised you would get that much for so little because when a UA flight I was on was diverted to MKE from ORD a few months ago and I complained about them taking four hours to turn the plane around back to ORD they sent me just $150, but maybe I shouldn't be surprised they are so inconsistent.

For what it's worth, UA doesn't issue Skykits for every 20-30 minute delay.

Landing at a nearby airport (MKE instead of ORD)...I can see that resulting in a $150 voucher because of the PITA factor. I received a $350 goodwill voucher for a 7-hour mechanical delay.

Standard 20-30 minute delays do not result in Skykits.

For what it's worth, UA doesn't issue Skykits for every 20-30 minute delay.

Landing at a nearby airport (MKE instead of ORD)...I can see that resulting in a $150 voucher because of the PITA factor. I received a $350 goodwill voucher for a 7-hour mechanical delay.

Standard 20-30 minute delays do not result in Skykits.

Just follow this thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileage-plus/749110-why-were-you-compensated-what-did-you-get-merged-threads.html

Also, there is a difference when they sent it or give it on board on their own and when you are writing 1k voice after the fact.

Yeah, I read that thread from time to time - I think I've even posted my own Skykits/vouchers in there.

I received a $150 voucher for a minor FA water spill about two years ago. This year, the aforementioned $350 per person for a 7 hour MX.

I can't imagine actually writing 1Kvoice about a 30 minute delay. Obviously you've done it and it has worked. I just can't see myself doing it, and UA definitely does not send miles or vouchers to non-complainers after routine, minor delays.

If the 30 minutes causes me to misconnect and I feel like the employee rebooking me isn't using client-focused problem solving skills, then yes...I'm busting an email to 1Kvoice. That's different.

I'm glad to see they've been doing some proactive compensation for things like nearby diversions or long MX delays. That's a different story and perhaps one area where UA truly is doing something better than AA or DL. I for one appreciated the fact that my Goodwill Voucher was handed to me when I deplaned after the 7 hour late arrival.

I completely disagree. I think WN is a dreadful program for infrequent fliers. Problem one is that credits expire after 24 months. On most other carriers, miles don't expire as long as the account is kept active. An infrequent flier who takes 3 roundtrips/year, 1000 miles each way, earns a free trip in just over 4 years.

Compare that to Southwest. Without partner credits, our hypothetical flier might well never earn a free ticket, (perpetually having 12 credits, as old ones expire as new ones are earned).

Problem two is that once earned, the rewards are issued automatically and also expire. Now that WN has capacity controls on awards, the infrequent traveler may have trouble using it before expiration. Again, the legacy airlines would allow the award to be used years after it is earned.

For the trip-a-month traveler, WN may work well, but for the infrequent traveler, a legacy is a better choice.

Absolutely. It's not even a contest here.

I received a $150 voucher for a minor FA water spill about two years ago. This year, the aforementioned $350 per person for a 7 hour MX.
I can't imagine actually writing 1Kvoice about a 30 minute delay.

How about $150 for missing hangers in F? :) I would not do it, but people did (look in that thread). Compare to it, 30 min. delay is just very fair complaint ;)

AA is more generous when it comes to SWU and their miles are better, but Skykits make me loyal to UA.

but I paid $5 bucks for my companion to fly accross the country with me. That is a benefit worth its weight in gold!

No kidding! Comparative costs for a funeral run to STL this past Sunday & Monday:

WN: 1 RR trip + $10 + 1 companion fare + $10

DL/NW: 50K miles + $310

Guess who got the business?

Between bump vouchers, companion fares, and competitive fares to MDW & STL, we basically are flying free right now except when I need to charge security fees.

And pinworm, there's nothing saying that you can't go for CP on WN and also get top status on a legacy, if you fly that much. ... Best of both worlds.

This is probably a lot more common than many people think. Even without business travel we have a WN CP and are both CO Plats (and DL/NW Golds but that will end Feb 28). So far in 2009 we've earned 350K miles in our CO & DL/NW accounts.

You can have it both way. :)

This is probably a lot more common than many people think. Even without business travel we have a WN CP and are both CO Plats (and DL/NW Golds but that will end Feb 28). So far in 2009 we've earned 350K miles in our CO & DL/NW accounts.
You can have it both way. :)

If you are really need it, you can get CP without any flying on WN at all.
Its just that most business travelers rarely flying with the same companion, unless on vacation (and a lot of vacations are where WN does not fly)

I have always recommended WN over the legacies to anyone who is an infrequent traveler - I'm obviously 180 degrees in disagreement with some people on this.

To me, the basic traveling experience as a non-elite on the legacies is awful. Abysmal customer service at every possible touch point - it's a system purposely designed to discourage infrequent travelers. Even in the best possible case - an RJ with no F cabin and you have no checked baggage - the non-elite traveling experience is still pretty lousy.

If we're talking WN vs. another non-legacy, then there are likely some pros and cons to consider. Even non-legacies that try to recognize an elite status generally don't do it in such a way that makes non-elite travel nearly impossible. For example, out of MCI we have a few routes operated by both YX and WN. I view YX as a tolerable travel experience (though nothing like it was a few years ago),

In either case, an infrequent traveler is on a long slow grind to achieve meaningful awards. The infrequent traveler who actually pays attention and cares about awards is going to want to use partners in either case. WN seems to be in the middle in terms of partner earning abilities...not quite AA or UA but better than most non-legacies.

If you are really need it, you can get CP without any flying on WN at all.
Its just that most business travelers rarely flying with the same companion, unless on vacation (and a lot of vacations are where WN does not fly)

But like legacy miles the reward trips generally are used for personal travel, where the companion usually is the same person.

& with an annual accumulation of 350K miles on other airlines, we can go just about anywhere we want, whether WN goes there or not.

Even non-legacies that try to recognize an elite status generally don't do it in such a way that makes non-elite travel nearly impossible.

Are you saying that the greatest strength of legacy elite programs is that their non-elite travel experience is so horrible? :eek:

If so, I hope that's not the future of air travel. Because one of these years, my travel will drop to the non-elite level.

You value UA miles at 1.5 cents each? Yes [/quote]You want to buy some?
I did buy a few (maybe $150?) to complete a 3rd award ticket to Asia. Is that something bad? :confused:

Are you saying that the greatest strength of legacy elite programs is that their non-elite travel experience is so horrible? :eek:

For a low-tier status, yes. The primary benefit of Lifetime AA Gold status is that non-elite status is horrible. AA Gold usually yields passable customer service. If I had to give it a grade, I'd probably give it a C- or so. Non-elite customer service is so deep in F territory and getting worse as time passes.

Mid-tier gets better. Customer service improves a tad and the travel benefits become more meaningful. Top-tier status has great value if your program offers SWU's usable on reasonable coach fares. Customer service at the top-tier is usually in the B range, IMHO, with occasional flashes of A service (genuine thinking, improvisation, problem solving, client-centric attitude).

If so, I hope that's not the future of air travel. Because one of these years, my travel will drop to the non-elite level.

It's not the future, it's now.

Avoid dropping to non-elite if at all possible. It's painful. At a minimum, snag Lifetime AA Gold and hope they stay in business. At least then you'll have access to a pretty good alliance. It's the only one you can backdoor into without actually flying. (I think...)

As a regular flier on both Alaska Air (as an MVP Gold) and Southwest (no status yet), I wanted to point out that both airlines have their pros and cons, as does comparing Southwest with any other airline. There is no worse or better airline.....it just depends on your individual needs.

Southwest Pros:
1) They are always cheaper than Alaska Air, especially Southwests Ding fares;
2) They turn around a plane faster than any other airline.
3) The booze is free when you fly enough to get a free ticket.
4) You get free tickets faster than on legacy carriers (and Alaska Air)

Alaska Pros:
1) Much better frequent flier program. For example, you can use miles earned towards international travel, 50% fare discounts on all flights, and first class upgrades.
2) Assigned seats (and no need to check-in 24 hours ahead of time to get a decent seat!).
3) Great service when you're on their 737's (especially if you're an MVP Gold). And most of their 737's have first class seating.
4) Free booze for every passenger on every flight, but only when flying on Horizon flights. Alaska flights in coach only give free booze to MVP Golds.
5) Service to the states of Alaska, Hawaii, as well as Mexico and Canada

No difference between the two:
1) Ontime performance. Both tend to be frequently late in my experience, especially towards the end of the day. Alaska Air flights which are operated by Horizon are especially late a lot of the time.
2) Inflight service when you compare Horizon flights with Southwest; they're all pretty much the same.
3) Ground staff. Both airlines are just about the same....I have had great staff at both, and awful staff at both. But both Alaska Air and Southwest are leaps and bounds ahead of Delta and American when it comes to both ground and inflight staff.
4) Websites. Both are very different but both are just as easy to navigate, and better than the websites of the competition.
5) Flight schedules. Some times of the year Alaska has better flight schedules; other times of the year Southwest has better flight schedules. They change all the time.

So when comparing airlines, there is no better or worse. It just depends on the individual needs and likes of the person, and the past experience they're had on other airlines.

There is no worse or better airline.....it just depends on your individual needs.

That's pretty much the alpha and omega....however, it isn't conducive to lively discussion. ;)



Alaska Pros:
....

5) Service to the states of Alaska, Hawaii, as well as Mexico and Canada

One of my liquid reveries is for WN to join oneworld. Sigh.

I forgot about that one: WN is effectively a Free Booze airline for me. Since I redeemed a Marriott Travel Package for my CP last year (as opposed to flying 100 segments), I have enough WN booze coming my way to choke a horse. :cool:

I also have a bunch of UA 1K drink chits, but those things expire eventually. WN's don't. ^

AS offers a $50 companion certificate with its Visa card. This is ideally suited to a paid trip in F booked late in the game when coach prices are at near-F levels.

I completely disagree. I think WN is a dreadful program for infrequent fliers. Problem one is that credits expire after 24 months. On most other carriers, miles don't expire as long as the account is kept active. An infrequent flier who takes 3 roundtrips/year, 1000 miles each way, earns a free trip in just over 4 years.

It is a major drawback, particularly for families. Our toddler already lost the 8 signup credits, and Mrs. B has lost a few too. Admittedly we are flying less given the cost of driving SF-LA v. flying, but definitely a drawback compared with UA, AA, DL, AS where it is relatively easy to preserve my miles.

Problem two is that once earned, the rewards are issued automatically and also expire. Now that WN has capacity controls on awards, the infrequent traveler may have trouble using it before expiration. Again, the legacy airlines would allow the award to be used years after it is earned.


Another drawback, in fact we ended up paying to extend 2 RR last year and then burning them on a leisure junket as were loathe to lose them. Might have been worth $500 each for a trip to MCO next year, but no dice (to be fair there's no inventory on AA, UA for that trip :rolleyes: )

I have no concerns about what RR 2.0 will bring, because I am really not all that much concerned about what RR 1.0 does or does not do. WN works for me because of price and flexibility and any side benefits of a RR program are simply a plus.

I am pretty much in agreement. As long as WN advance purchase prices are relatively competitive with no change fee and no baggage fee I'll be buying WN (shhh, don't tell Gary ;)).


This is probably a lot more common than many people think. Even without business travel we have a WN CP and are both CO Plats (and DL/NW Golds but that will end Feb 28). So far in 2009 we've earned 350K miles in our CO & DL/NW accounts.

You can have it both way. :)

A rather obvious point that OP missed - most of us who fly WN have it both ways - status with a legacy carrier for international and/or premium needs and WN for efficient and cheap short haul and family trips. :cool:


WN doesn't have a first or business class. Now that I rack up miles quick, first and business upgrades are well within practical range for me, more so when you consider partner programs with car rentals and Amex cards. Now I can sit up front with the comp drinks and the big seats away from the stinking masses in coach. WN does not offer club lounges either.

No question if you require F then WN is not your carrier.


WN doesn't fly international routes. Although it can take longer to score enough points on other carriers, I can get to Europe by directing my business elsewhere.

Ditto, and again nothing new there. However if you fly UA you may find it very hard to redeem for saver international premium seats thanks to *A blocking (and DL and CO are reputed to be even worse with inventory).

If WN wants me to put my efforts into their rewards programs, they are going to have to offer more incentives with it, such as A-list/BS assigned seating, a FC section, or a lounge of some kind. Another interesting idea may be to exchange credits for merchandise, as Usairways Dividend miles does with their miles. Develop more of a RR credit "currency" value, outside of extra RR awards for comp. passes.

The only thing I'd like to see from that list is pay-per-use lounges (and maybe free to BS) at some of the "hubs", i.e. OAK, MDW, LAS, etc. Would be less of a problem if WN airports had better priority pass coverage :(

I fly from BOS to Washington 2-3 a month. WN's fares and no change fee policies are much less expensive than US. I checked for example for tomorrow and I can fly on WN BOS to BWI for about $220, and US wants for BOS to DCA about $1,200.

For advance purchase trips I just paid all in $71.20 for a bunch of BOS BWI trips. US would charge $300-$400 for an advance purchase restricted fare BOS to DCA. For that price difference I can stay in a hotel and extra night and even take a taxi from Washington to BWI.

But no change fees is huge! Also WN doesn't charge fees on award tickets, and you can freely make changes and redeposit for free.

As a brand and company I feel a lot better about WN than say US.

I get a drink in a plastic cup in first class on US just like on WN. On US I don't get a snack in coach and on WN I get peanuts.

There are some conveniences of US (upgrades, coat closet, assigned seats) but they are not worht a several hundred dollar premium per trip. Maybe a $20-$50 premium but not $300 or $1,000.

I've flown 13 WN flights since about 10/10/09 and have been impressed overall, and I'm saving thousands of dollars and hassles. I've always been good at talking my way out of the legacys fees in person but with WN I don't even have to hassle with that for flight changes.

I recently missed my WN flight because I wanted to sleep later and have breakfast and they let me standby on the next available flight.

In 13 flights I've always gotten an aisle or window.

I'm looking forward to their launch of WiFi systemwide.

I like reading the WN blog, Twitter, and the Red Belly radio podcast.

I haven't noticed that the pax on WN are any different than on any legacy, and I do see business travelers.

I feel that WN, unlike US, is not out to gouge me or take advantage of me.

I rarely check bags or call to book my flights but I like that WN does not charge for these services.

I really think though that the public and media misses the mark on underreporting the huge benefit of no change fees, and WN's simple fares and web site including the flight change and cancel process.