American Express Membership Rewards - Redeeming for Flight to Italy

Hi all,

This is my first post, though I've been reading a lot on the forums which has been very interesting.

Anyway, I'd like to book a trip from NYC to Rome next July. I planned on using my Amex points, which I thought was 50K for European travel. I currently have about 70K Amex points.

I checked the travel section of the Amex website, which was pretty difficult to use and as you know, only shows the amount of points needed until after you've selected the flight (shows dollar value first). Unfortunately, the cheapest non-stop flight was 145,000 points! This was a Delta flight, so I checked the Delta website, and it was 90K points there (I have 40K skymiles, so it would be great to combine).

I guess my question is, since you all seem to find ways to redeem points so masterfully, is there something I'm doing wrong? Should I be doing this on the Amex site or on Delta? Why is it so expensive and why is there such a big discrepancy? And is there a particular time period that's better to book (e.g. a year in advance, month in advance)? I appreciate in advance any advice.

Thanks again!

-Bocconi

Redemption on the Amex website is generally not cost effective. What most of us do is find the reward flights on the appropriate airline (i.e., MR transfer partners and have the flights you want). Hold the flights, then transfer from MR to the airline to "pay" for the flights. You'll have to be a member of that airlines Frequent Flier program before you book... but don't need miles or status.

Some airlines let you do all this online, which does ease things (and reduces booking fees).

I believe there is also a Delta promotion going on right now that provides an additional 20% for the MR that you transfer.

Note: this only works if you have the higher -end MR plan - not the one that comes with the Blue card.

How does 60,000 MR points for RT on LX or LH sound?

Simply open an account with AC Aeroplan, transfer 60,000 points, then book a 60,000 mile award on LX via ZRH or LH via FRA.

If you can scrounge up another 20,000 points, business-class is only 80,000 R/T - and LX has the lie-flat business seats on the 333 from JFK-ZRH.

One option is to transfer AmEx points to ANA. They have a unique award chart (http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/general/e/amc/reference/tokuten/teikeiair_1.html)with redemption levels based on how far you fly.

Direct flights from NYC to Rome would be ~8,500 miles round-trip, so you'd only need 43,000 ANA points for an economy ticket. (Or 68,000 for business class.)

I've been flying JFK (or IAD) - FCO at least once a year for the past 5 years. As I always know my dates waaaaaaaaaaaay in advance, I book as early as Delta allows, having no problem getting business seats for 100k. For my travel end of next August I booked around 3 weeks ago.

Are there other services similar to ANA? I've heard good things about SPG points and the SPG marketplace as well: You earn miles for the flight that you paid with spg poins.

and if you can't "scrounge up" the extra points, you can buy them from AMEX for $500 (20,000 x $0.025).

We flew BA last summer with Starwood point transfer. Friends transferred AMEX points directly to Alitalia and did very well. Always much more expensive to let AMEX buy the tickets with points.

ANA supposedly has very high fees in addition to the points.

How does 60,000 MR points for RT on LX or LH sound?

Simply open an account with AC Aeroplan, transfer 60,000 points, then book a 60,000 mile award on LX via ZRH or LH via FRA.

If you can scrounge up another 20,000 points, business-class is only 80,000 R/T - and LX has the lie-flat business seats on the 333 from JFK-ZRH.

ANA supposedly has very high fees in addition to the points.

Interesting. Good to know. I had not seen much about that, other then they can be significantly less expensive when redeeming miles for a ticket on Virgin Atlantic.

I have used ANA miles for domestic flights within the US, and have only been charged the $5 9/11 fee. I used them this past April for a first-class ticket on LH from JFK-FRA, and was only charged the taxes for the ticket. (I checked and the taxes were identical to what they would have been if I had purchased the ticket directly from LH.)

A downside to ANA is that they will not hold an award ticket, and it takes up to a week for AmEx miles to post.

Are there other services similar to ANA? I've heard good things about SPG points and the SPG marketplace as well: You earn miles for the flight that you paid with spg poins.

SPG give you a 25% bonus when transferring points to AC, so a R/T ticket to Europe in C would be 65,000 SPG points and about $140 in taxes and fees.

You earn miles for the flight that you paid with spg poins.

There are two unrelated ways to redeem Membership Rewards points or Starwood Preferred Guest points for air travel.

One option is to redeem points directly for airline tickets. This means that American Express or Starwood buys the tickets for you. These are not "award" tickets, the flights can earn miles the same as any other paid tickets. The drawback is that the number of points required is based on the price of the ticket, and these are seldom good value.

SPG Flights program is explained here:

http://www.spgflights.com/travel/arc.cfm?tab=a&EM=VTY_SPG_FLIGHTS

The second option is to transfer MR or SPG points to an airline frequent flyer program. MR points usually transfer 1000:1000. SPG points often transfer 20000:25000, but transfers to some airlines (CO, UA, RG, SQ) are unfavorable. You then redeem miles for award tickets, and American Express or Starwood have no further involvement. Award tickets do not earn miles.

Membership Rewards transfer partners are listed here:

http://www.membershiprewards.com/catalog/travel/NewPointsTransfer.aspx?tab=airlines&mrnavlink=topnav:TravelFreqFlyerProg


Starwood transfer partners are listed here:

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/account/starpoints/transfer/airline_partner_list.html

ANA supposedly has very high fees in addition to the points.
I do not believe this to be the case at all.

...Simply open an account with AC Aeroplan, transfer 60,000 points, then book a 60,000 mile award on LX via ZRH or LH via FRA.
...
Book first, transfer later. NEVER transfer first - you may not be able to book what you want.

Are there other services similar to ANA? I've heard good things about SPG points and the SPG marketplace as well: You earn miles for the flight that you paid with spg poins.
Yes, but others will argue that spg points have far more value when used for hotel rooms.

and if you can't "scrounge up" the extra points, you can buy them from AMEX for $500 (20,000 x $0.025).

We flew BA last summer with Starwood point transfer. Friends transferred AMEX points directly to Alitalia and did very well. Always much more expensive to let AMEX buy the tickets with points.

ANA supposedly has very high fees in addition to the points.
If you have a Platinum card you can also borrow 60,000 points against future purchases.

But again, NEVER transfer before you've reserved your flights.

I do not believe this to be the case at all.

My bad.

Someone wrote that to me in a FT Private Message. With their redemption schedule, I've very happy to be wrong about it!

Sorry.

But again, NEVER transfer before you've reserved your flights.

Agreed, to a point. This approach works great for CO, DL and AC where the transfer is instant. It doesn't work for NH where it takes 3-5 days for the points to show up and they won't hold the seat in the mean time. It is a calculated risk you have to consider.

Someone wrote that to me in a FT Private Message. With their redemption schedule, I've very happy to be wrong about it!
And I would be very sad to be wrong about it. :eek:

I'm not positive, but I believe it to be the case. Last time I redeemed with them was over 3 years ago and I know that plenty has changed in that time. I'm pretty sure that they do not charge YQ on the VS rewards from NYC-LON. Maybe they do on NH metal??

But again, NEVER transfer before you've reserved your flights.

Happy to be wrong again but my sense is that not many airlines will still let you make reservations pending transfer. We transferred a load of miles to US Air earlier this summer due to the 50% transfer bonus for our Starwood points. We knew we wanted to fly First to Europe next summer, and the transfer bonus was to end before the flights we wanted would be available.

We took our chances knowing we had at least two airlines in the alliance we could use and stayed on top of it. The day the seats became available, we snatched em.

Could we compile a list of airlines that allow one to make reservations pending point transfer? I know that in terms of Starwood points, Cathay Pacific's AsiaMiles allowed me 30 days. Any others? And if we can get a good list going, I hope we can make it into a "sticky".

Those are helpful options to take into account, thank you very much. Aeroplan didn't have any direct flights (1 stopover on the way there and 2 stopovers on the way home), which I guess I'd consider since the business class is cheaper than Delta coach. ANA had no Rome flights, but did have Florence at 68K business class. Although it says it takes 5-7 days to transfer ANA points - too much of a risk for me.

I'm going to keep checking ANA, AC and Delta regularly. It seems flexibility and creativity is key. Thanks again for providing some cost-effective options.

-Bocconi

Looks to be plenty of availability on Swiss from JFK to Rome in Business Class. Can't book online with ANA but can do so on the phone.

Yes, there's a risk the seats may not be available but right now, every flight I looked at had 8 Business Class seats. Flights are JFK to Zurich to Rome and back.

...Could we compile a list of airlines that allow one to make reservations pending point transfer? I know that in terms of Starwood points, Cathay Pacific's AsiaMiles allowed me 30 days. Any others? And if we can get a good list going, I hope we can make it into a "sticky".

I'd suggest a list including how long you can hold online vs. on the phone, along with time to transfer from MR. It'd be useful to add time to xfer from SPG and others, but that would be off topic for this forum.

Then there is the "Flight finders" program... just stumbled on it while typing this post... seems that for AirTran, HA and Virgin you can book award travel and xfer the points from the Amex MR site.... and room finder with HHonors or Priority club.

To start, I know that CO let's you hold award reservations for 3 days when you book online, and longer pending point transfer if you call. Calling is supposed to result in a $25 charge unless you're CO Platinum elite. Transfer from MR is instantaneous, and can be done from the CO site.