Air France Frequence Plus - Premium Voyageur seating, and upgrade opportunities

It's silly, I know, but I'm just giddy about being on the first CDG-NRT flight (AF278 on 16/11) with the new Premium Voyageur class.

Since it's been in service on CDG-JFK for a few days already, has anyone here flown it ? How was it ?

The looks of it are well documented on the AF site, as well as in pictures here, taken at a trade show: http://www.flickr.com/photos/businesstraveller/sets/72157622444342600/

Would have wished for a little more space between rows (where's that advertised "40% more space" I wonder...), but it looks really good, can't wait.

I also wonder what the situation is like for the first row of seats, facing the bulkhead. Where does the folding tray table fold out from then ? From the bulkhead, or from somewhere deep within the armrest. Same for the IFE monitor, and the footrest. My return flight still has bulkhead seats available, but I'd like to make a more informed choice...

Also, since many of us here have been bemoaning the scarcity of op-ups from Y to C on AF, I wonder how the new class will change things. Sure, there is now probably no way that anyone will ever get upgraded fo Y to C anymore, but there might be more opportunities for a Y pax to get a boarding pass for an A seat, and for an A pax to find himself in C. Right ?

Cedric

Also, since many of us here have been bemoaning the scarcity of op-ups from Y to C on AF, I wonder how the new class will change things. Sure, there is now probably no way that anyone will ever get upgraded fo Y to C anymore, but there might be more opportunities for a Y pax to get a boarding pass for an A seat, and for an A pax to find himself in C. Right ?
Cedric

I'm sure you're right. Upgrades will be from Y to A, A to J, J to F. No more Y to J :mad:

those ptv-screens seem rather large for eco, just out of curiosity does anyone know the size?

Sure, there is now probably no way that anyone will ever get upgraded fo Y to C anymore, but there might be more opportunities for a Y pax to get a boarding pass for an A seat, and for an A pax to find himself in C. Right ?

This will only be true if you think that either Y or W will be oversold on a more regular basis. Considering the impressively systematic way AF are trying to torpede every single aspect of their product, I would be surprised if load factors improved. Example, with the planned move to a low cost Y product passengers willing to pay well over €1000 for the extra comfort of the W cabin to JFK will have to want an Easyjet-type connecting flight. Would the people willing to pay more for comfort be willing to take 2h30 of pay-for-your-water class from MAD or VIE to CDG in addition to a 'great' CDG connecting experience? Hmmm... :rolleyes:

those ptv-screens seem rather large for eco, just out of curiosity does anyone know the size?

I think it is 10.4"

Here's a picture I took of it last week on my flight from JFK to CDG. I was in Affaires but was able to grab this quick photo as boarding was commencing. Sorry I didn't get one of the screens, etc.

http://thepremiumexperience.com/pics/af_premium_economy.jpg

The looks of it are well documented on the AF site, as well as in pictures here, taken at a trade show: http://www.flickr.com/photos/businesstraveller/sets/72157622444342600/

Would have wished for a little more space between rows (where's that advertised "40% more space" I wonder...), but it looks really good, can't wait.


Partly beside you.

Y seats are 10 abreast. A seats 8 abreast. That means 25 % more width. Which means you only need 12 % more pitch to get a grand total of 40 % more space.

Here's a picture I took of it last week on my flight from JFK to CDG. I was in Affaires but was able to grab this quick photo as boarding was commencing. Sorry I didn't get one of the screens, etc.

http://thepremiumexperience.com/pics/af_premium_economy.jpg

Ooooo, that does look pretty slick! Like SAS Economy Extra but without the wear and tear. And presumably - thanks to the hard-body - no discomfort when the front seat reciles or (my pet peeve) nobody stabbing you in the back to change channels on the PTV. Thanks for the pic!

Here's a picture I took of it last week on my flight from JFK to CDG. I was in Affaires but was able to grab this quick photo as boarding was commencing. Sorry I didn't get one of the screens, etc.

http://thepremiumexperience.com/pics/af_premium_economy.jpg

I just found out about this new product from an ad on the Times' website. (I really need to spend some time on other parts of FT besides just OMNI).

Anyway, it looks good! And the pricing is fair, IMO... I'll have to try it at some point.

Question: is the catering different than the standard Y catering?

Question: is the catering different than the standard Y catering?

No, standard Y catering (but nice choice of menus, I love the non-veggie Hindu, at least out of Paris...). But you get the same amenities kit, IFE screen size, water bottle and noise-cancelling headphones as in J.

Haven't tried it yet, but I like it already.

Oh, also, it is now available for award bookings, for only 20% over regular Y. Can't wait for those december promo awards...

Oh, also, it is now available for award bookings, for only 20% over regular Y. Can't wait for those december promo awards...

Now that is GOOD news! PV awards could turn out to be pretty decent value even with all the taxes.

Now that is GOOD news! PV awards could turn out to be pretty decent value even with all the taxes.

Well, I tried to book this award this week and it looks like they are only allowing elites to book them (I am currently Gold Medallion with Delta, but the agent still said no, at least paying for this trip I will get back to PM).

Upgrades will be from Y to A, A to J, J to F. No more Y to J :mad:

Hi Goldorak

Why the ":mad:"?

If you want a chance of getting upgraded to J get yourself an A ticket and you will end up in J if any upgrades are handed out (most likely not).

Anyway, any upgrade from one class to another which is of greater value is great so no complaints from me :)

That said, of course it would be nice to get a J seat for the price of a discounted Y seat but what can you do... :p

Hi Goldorak

Why the ":mad:"?
That said, of course it would be nice to get a J seat for the price of a discounted Y seat but what can you do... :p

You understood well :D;), that's why I put the :mad:

Can i book Prem Eco on first leg from Got-Jfk and then Affairs on the return via the website or do i need to call Air France? Trying to go on Dec 17 -29

Thanks

Is there any word on upgrading for points? It would be nice if there was a decent price to go from Economy to Premium Voyageur. SAS allow upgrades to Premium on any Economy ticket for 10.000 points when available, but somehow I doubt Air France will be as permissive?

Is there any word on upgrading for points? It would be nice if there was a decent price to go from Economy to Premium Voyageur. SAS allow upgrades to Premium on any Economy ticket for 10.000 points when available, but somehow I doubt Air France will be as permissive?

Be still my beating heart :) ... this would indeed be excellent, but I'm sure there'll be conditions attached, such as the original fare class.

Or maybe (just maybe) we won't be able to upgrade Y to J anymore, juste Y to A, and A to J. Still, that feels wrong, since a full Y fare will still cost more than a regular, semi-restricted A...

As far as upgrades are concerned one can already upgrade from Y to premium Y with 16,500 miles one way transatlantic, which is OK and is I guess limited to certain fare classes. No word so far about upgrading from Premium Y to C, although one can still upgrade from Y to C.

I flew in Premium Voyageur a few days ago. The seat is good, it gives you enough space and comfort. I was seated next to a very fat whale and still was not disturbed. I could sleep well when I was tired, of course C is much better but Premium Y is what a humane treatment of passengers should be, as opposed to the pathetic cramping of regular Y on 777s nowadays.

There are three rows, row 22 has lots of legroom so it is easy to move around even if one does not seat near the aisle. 23 and 24 have good legroom and a footrest but the aisle passenger will have to get up to let her/his neighbor out. The table in the armrest on row 22 is not very big, it looks better behind, one also has to deal with the screen being in the armrest.

The seat reclines a bit and has a small cushion coming up for leg support. It is easy to operate, there are two manual buttons, one for the seat back and one for the leg rest.

It's nice to be in this small cabin and there is enough space to stowe carry-ons. There is no dedicated bathroom, it would be nice to have one though. I felt bad coming back to economy and passing along the sardines there, they look miserable.

The 777 200 they use is starting to show its age but it is decent.

Exact same amenities as in business as advertised (water bottle, blanket, pillow, amenity kit, Sennheiser noise reduction headphones although they look a tad cheaper), and exact same food as in economy. I was happy not to be tempted with too much food and alcohol but it of course is a matter of taste!

The seats have power, as usual with AF it works so-so, ie the plug tends to be ejected from the socket and the power is weak, barely enough to feed a converter. I had to plug and unplug my PDA a dozen times until the battery charged.

Overall I liked it and believe it is worth paying double the economy fare (on the day I bought my nonrefundable ticket coach was about $700 and premium was $1,400 all included).

I'll second that. My CDG-NRT trip in W was really nice. Much better than Eco+ on BA or UA, more like a mini-business class: same exact IFE, reading lights, power plug, amenity kit, water bottle, slippers and headphones.

Since this was the first flight to Asia with the new cabin, the crew was eager to hear what we thought about it. To sum it up, no disappointment here. The seat works as advertised, is wider than Y, with a J-like central armrest, and a nice chunk of space in front of you, that won't be reclined into... and you actually have to unfold and extend the large tray table to eat your meal, which says a lot. It was comfortable enough for me to sleep a solid six hours sans Ambien.

All in all, I like the value for money (and the 125% FB miles), would love to fly it always. Too bad you can't upgrade to it for 10.000 miles on a TATL or Asia flight. Can't wait to see it on every long-haul, and among the promo awards...

Nice to see you agree Cingrand. Of course I had a nonrefundable fare ("A") so I "only" got 100% of the miles but I thought that I was getting the right product for the right price. This makes two things AF gets right this year for me. Premium Eco and finally a competitive vacation business class fare (99% of my flying is for leisure) last Summer.

It was great time because we have faced many disappointments this year (and overall it still is :td: ) !

Thanks for the updates! Sounds like very good value for money overall (and a much better idea than KLM's "Comfort" variation with standard Economy seats).