TalkBoard Elections/09 - Question 1: Effective Feedback

I'll start this off by asking a familiar question from last years debate:

Question: What do you believe is the most effective way for TalkBoard members to receive feedback in the public forum? Would you seek feedback mostly by reading the comments of the membership, or would you engage in debate with the membership?

As well, explain how you balance public comments against those you receive in private and maybe the most important question of all ... do you think that the vocal will always represent the majority for your input or do you sometime sense that the majority may feel that FlyerTalk is fine the way it is?

Wow, great question.

My tendency is to explain my position (if I have one) and read what members to have to say rather than get in the middle of an argument. Stepping back and watching the discussion helps me to stay informed without biasing my judgment.

Now, I don't alwasy start with a firm position to explain and I may ask a question as I formulate my opinion.

Most subjects are swayed by reasoned argument, rather than popularity, but one can often judge depth of sentiment by the number of people chiming in on a discussion and the number of times the relevant threads are read.

I take input from wherever intelligent discourse can be found, integrate it with my experience, and vote what I believe is in the best interests of Flyertalk.

I must agree with gleff on this, great question.

First of all, I think it is best to come out and state my position (if I have one) on the particular issue. However, many times my initial position is not the position I end up deciding on at the end. Therefore, I believe that a healthy productive discussion can be valuable to making that decision. The end decision should be the one that I feel is in the best interest of Flyertalk as a whole.

Therefore, I think I would use a multi-tiered approach to get a sense of what the membership is thinking about the particular issue. First the comments left by members on the public forums are a great way for the TalkBoard to get a sense of what the community is thinking with respect to a particular issue. However, I do not necessarily believe that the comments left by members on the public forums represents the feelings/beliefs of the membership as a whole. By that I mean an issue in and of itself may not cause a member to feel the need to comment in a public manner on the issue. I tend to believe that those who have the strongest opinions, either for or against, on a particular topic/issue are those who will likely respond and comment on that issue. Those who do not have a strong opinion one way or the other likely will not leave a comment. However, there are other indications (views, posts, unique posters, etc) that may help determine if an issue is one that is of importance or interest to the greater community. These indications can help focus the attention of the TalkBoard on those issues that the community thinks are important. If one is to attempt to get a better understanding of the issue and how the community as a whole feels on the issue, it is incumbent to engage in a dialog with the membership. Therefore, I would ask questions to the membership that would encourage, without biasing, those who haven’t commented on the issue yet to chime in and help me better understand what the community is thinking. My goal would be to try to gather as much information from the membership as a whole to help me make the decision. Once I had gathered this information, I would use it to make the decision that I think is in the best interest of FlyerTalk.

Thanks for the questions Randy.

Having done countless numbers of research projects and focus groups, decades of experience comes with this answer.

Unless you're taking a proper sample of the FT community, TalkBoard members will obviously need to assess things based on both feedback and their own judgment. The most vocal of people does not always mean they are the majority.

Randy's well-thought out reasoning and explanation of an ongoing discussion about whether OMNI should remain open to everyone or open to the original criteria is a great example of my type of thinking.

Randy took into account the comments of people raising concerns. He went fact-finding on those, independently assessed what's going on in OMNI, and got supporting data to directly answer questions and concerns, then presented his case.

My approach would be parallel.

Let's say a topic was about the BA forum, for example. One thing I would do in addition is to find out how much an individual contributes to that forum. Look at the overall amount of posts, see how much was done in the BA forum, and assess whether that individual is a heavy contributor or not to that forum.

However, that's not a foolproof way to gauge usage. Someone could be currently, or have been, a lurker. Doesn't mean that individual won't be heard, but it's a small part of my thought process.

Looking in the forum and doing custom searches about the topic at hand would also be a resource I would regularly use.

There's no magic answer or comment that says "A-ha! That's it!" All comments should be heard. But it's the digging under the hood, getting one's hands dirty and finding out what's going on and executing common sense is the way to assess a situation and/or topic.

Thanks for the questions.

I think the best way to gather feedback is to read, or "listen" to the members for a while, and try to see as many "sides" of the issue at hand as possible. It can often take a while for the discussion to get going, and sometimes how a member says something is equally as important as what he or she actually says in a post. Then again, some people just try to stir things up and stoke the fire if you will--so by reading for a while, you can get a better feel for not only what the opinions are, but how important the issue is to the membership. Also as one of my fellow candidates stated above, we should consider the number of posts and the number of times a particular thread is read if possible in determining how important a particular issue is to the members.

Sometimes a statement or an opinion posted by a person in a leadership or representative role can sway some members who may be on the fence or who may not have formed an opinion on an issue. Therefore it is important to consider that when deciding when the time is right for a Talk Board member or other senior member to make a statement or post a definitive opinion on an issue. Sometimes staying quiet for a while would give us a more accurate picture of how people really feel. If, however, someone was posting something that was false or misleading, I would feel compelled to set the record straight. I would also not hesitate to ask questions, and to encourage participation by ALL members. I believe that in most situations the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Each member on here has a specific comfort level when it comes to stating publicly how they feel about an issue. Some people may be more comfortable sharing their opinion with you via PM or email. Such opinions are just as valuable as those posted in public, and have to be considered with equal weight.

As with many other boards, I think Flyer Talk has what amounts to a "vocal minority"--meaning that those who post the most and post the "loudest" do NOT necessarily reflect the majority opinion of the membership. I think we need to foster an environment where EVERYONE is comfortable stating their opinion.

At the end of the day, I would want as much information, and to be able to read as many varied opinions as possible, from as many members as possible, on all sides of an issue, in order to make as educated and well thought out a decision as possible on the issue. It is very possible that by reading a discussion, my opinon may be swayed, but I would want to be sure I have as many tools as possible at my disposal in order to make a responsible decision which is in the best interest of Flyer Talk.

Let me start out by saying that I am looking forward to this "debate", and all of the forthcoming questions. I never like to engage in politics, so I choose to look at this as more of a discussion than a debate. I have read all of the candidates applications, and I wish we could all be on the TalkBoard. But whoever ends up serving will do a fine job. I apologize upfront if I don't come off sounding like a politician, or someone in a debate :-)

I feel very strongly that someone who is seeking feedback must proactively seek out that feedback. I believe that oftentimes, the people who are vocal with their opinion may not put forth the prevailing opinion. That being said, you cannot assume that those who are not being vocal are the prevailing opinion either! You must make an effort to enquire of the people who are not being vocal.

I am a big fan of soliciting the opinions of as large a sample of people as possible. Tools like surveys, polls, PM, etc. can be extremely useful before making an important decision that affects many people. I understand the purpose of the board, and that FT is not meant to be a full democracy (for example). But I believe that each board member should take the community's opinion into account, and give it the weight they feel it deserves (which for me is very much).

In my short time on TalkBoard, I proposed an initiative to have pre-arranged chats with Flyertalk posters. This received a positive response from members of TalkBoard, but a 50/50 reponse from the members who voted in a poll.

However, if elected to my own term on TB, I would push ahead with this. These chats are done very well between Mods. I think a time when which we can publicise to all members would be start.

We can choose times that work for every member, around the world as we all have difference schedules.

Other feedback must be seeking out comments - DO's, PM, and reaching out to talk to members must all be in the armoury. I'd be interested in starting a short, online, newsletter from the TB. Every three months we could review what votes had been taken, any issues addressed and invite comments from the membership.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks, Randy! I'm excited to be running for TalkBoard. It's my first time running for a public position since my failed bid for student body president in fifth grade. (I knew I should have followed my grandfather's advice to promise free ice cream if I were elected! :D) Even if I'm not picked by the community, I think the whole process of debate, challenge, and public exposure will be good for me as a person. :)

To keep my own views and ideas unbiased by other candidates' answers, and to prevent me from being tempted to just say, "me, too!", I'm going to answer this question before reading the other responses, after which I'll read and, as appropriate, respond to issues brought up by other candidates. We'll see how that style works.

Now, to Randy's question:

I think the existing channels through which TalkBoard members can receive (and respond to) feedback from the public--the TalkBoard Topics forum, in the general discussion forums, via private messages, and, of course, in person--are, in general, perfectly useful and appropriate means of communication, and I plan on utilizing all of them.

What I think is lacking is the "advertising" of these means of communication and even the existence of the TalkBoard itself.

I don't know that anyone would dispute that the general population is less than fully engaged with the FlyerTalk governance structure. While that is often the case in any form of representative government, at least in the political arena (such as a city or a country), people are aware that they have representatives they can contact when they're dissatisfied or have ideas for improvement.

I think that's part of the problem: most people even realize FlyerTalk has such a structure. Most people joining an online forum don't really think of it as a community but rather see it as a faceless corporation. They don't realize there's an accessible group of people behind the board (both TalkBoard, Randy, and staffers at Internet Brands and the House Of Miles).

I think the best way to solicit feedback from FlyerTalk members is to raise the profile of the TalkBoard and advertise the communication channels. Just as most city websites have a prominent picture of the mayor on the home page, perhaps the home FlyerTalk page (which is probably the page most newer/less active members start at) should have a big button that says, "We value your input! Your TalkBoard members want your ideas and feedback," and each forum (and/or the MyFlyerTalk page) should have a link (and not one buried in tiny print at the bottom of the page) to a virtual suggestion/comment box (depending on the technical implementation possible, it could either send PMs to all the TalkBoard members or post a note in a read-only forum, perhaps a sub-forum of the private TalkBoard discussion area).

I like the list of TalkBoard members here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showgroups.php), but it's kind of sad that it took me over five years to come across that link. It's really pretty difficult to see--hidden at the very bottom of only the main FlyerTalk Forum page behind a cryptic "View Forum Leaders" link (which I clicked on thinking it was going to take me to a list of the most prolific posters in each forum). Not only that, the list of TalkBoard members is hidden all the way at the bottom of that page. That's not exactly a way to prominently feature contact methods for a group that is supposed to be highly accessible and represent the entire community! I think more can be done to make it easy for everyone who posts on FlyerTalk to know they have input into what happens here.

As to the second part of Randy's question, I understand that some people are leery of expressing views and opinions in public, and I don't discriminate between people who take a public stand and those who prefer to make private comments and would welcome both public discussion in TalkBoard Topics and private communication. A view is a view, regardless how it was communicated. In my job and in many of my personal interactions, I'm pretty good about bringing all points of view forward for discussion and helping people flesh out their ideas. I'm a fair-minded person who can see merit in most any rational idea or side of an argument, and I would not hesitate to bring any thoughts to the greater body--regardless of my personal feelings in the matter.

At the same time, I understand that the vocal do not always represent the majority. There is truth to the idea that for any complaint or idea, a hundred more feel the same way. But the lack of engagement of FlyerTalk members with the TalkBoard is also representative of the fact that most people are actually quite happy with the status quo. Although I do plan on accepting and bringing all ideas with merit forward to the board, and I'm happy to try any and all new ideas with an optimistic view towards their potential success, I will also be careful before voting to make changes that would disrupt existing activity and habits.

Thanks, Randy, for creating this unique way to engage the community, and thank you to all of the other candidates (both new and those who have served before)--I look forward to the next ten days! :)

I am always open to member feedback, and I am very frequently engaged with large numbers of members every day.

But I also don't think it's a huge problem that TalkBoard isn't front and center. There are hundreds of thousands of members and many many more lurkers, and most of them don't have (or at least realize they have!) needs that are being unmet or a problem that ought to be addressed.

It's worth remember that this is a pretty great place, it's popular and well-populated for a reason, and that meta-dsicussions are useful for improving the community but IMHO ought not to become a distraction from what brings us all here in the first place -- discussing miles, points, and travel.

Jackal raised the point, "Just as most city websites have a prominent picture of the mayor on the home page.." I'm not sure whether that would be Randy, or having served as TalkBoard President, me? Hopefully the former, he's better looking than I am! Pre-Julie, I seem to remember that a women's magazine name him one of the country's most eligible bachelor's...? :D

Jackal raised the point, "Just as most city websites have a prominent picture of the mayor on the home page.." I'm not sure whether that would be Randy, or having served as TalkBoard President, me? Hopefully the former, he's better looking than I am! Pre-Julie, I seem to remember that a women's magazine name him one of the country's most eligible bachelor's...? :D

Y'know, I knew someone was going to raise that point. You've got a certain profile picture ;) that looks very much like a governor's portrait, but now that we've got him in our very own movie, perhaps we can put up one of George Clooney? :D

Anyway, I don't propose making TalkBoard a distraction from the normal business of FlyerTalk. I'm not in favor of gaudy logos and animated GIFs. But I think that there's value in at least making TalkBoard and the governance structure of FlyerTalk more noticeable and accessible. After all, even you admit (emphasis mine):

There are hundreds of thousands of members and many many more lurkers, and most of them don't have (or at least realize they have!) needs that are being unmet or a problem that ought to be addressed.

I'd like to seek out those who may have constructive input but don't realize it. :)

Obviously, none of us, "Talkboarders to be", FT regular posters, or the "Silent Majority" out there, those who read regularly and post rarely, and then with specific questions, can ever be totally unbiased.

My (and most of your) preconceptions and misconceptions are formed by environment and experience.

I'll venture that many of the questions and topics to be addressed were I elected would involve matters which would bring a "been there, done that" initial response from me. In 70 years of "experience", a half century of it involving regular travel, I cannot help bu have formed perspectives which produce reactions.

But then there's my time to date reading and posting to FT. Many of my old impressions and opinions have been greatly altered by the posts of both greatly experienced and novice, even first time posters. I have learned. I promise, if elected, to KEEP ON LEARNING!

To do so, I commit to read and attempt to absorb public and private posts (and not to automatically accord lesser weight to the private ones), to decide fairly, and not to allow histrionics, exaggeration and the skillful use of emotional triggers to sway my attempts at objective determination and responses. Above all, I hope to help keep FT as a place regulars and newcomers want to visit regularly, where they feel equally desirous of asking and answering questions, as well as recounting experiences worth sharing.

Where else but FT can be found, in constant dialogue on a wide range of subjects, ever-dynamic in a rainbow of perspectives, laden with positive advice, just as it is with horrific tales of woe and misadventure, the voices of men and women from every corner of the world and the US, putting in their "Two Cents". Brave souls they are, because even behind their screen names, they know that their words may excite a hailstorm of criticism and disagreement.

How fortunate we are! Elect me, and I'll try to keep it that way.

Incidentally, for those without Spanish or Spanish dictionaries (or not viewing it as worth looking), my screen name best translates as "Bald Shameless rascal" or words to that effect.

I'd like to seek out those who may have constructive input but don't realize it. :)I think you've hit on a campaign slogan! :D

What makes FlyerTalk unique and special to me is the opportunity for the membership to raise a question or issue and discuss it in an open environment with other members. I have seen numerous situations (both on FlyerTalk and off) where a question or concern comes up that could use the involvement of a moderator or board members, but this involvement ends up not being necessary because the memership is able to arrive at a consensus on their own. This is the conversation I most support.

I do, however, think it's important that moderators and board members pay attention to the conversation so that they are able to become involved if needed. If elected, we're making this commitment -- to remain involved and active -- and I would always be available to engage with members (either via private messages or public forums).

Look forward to a healthy dialogue.

FlyerTalk has a silent majority of users who have plenty to give to the community but are often stifled, discouraged, attacked or simply made to feel unwelcome. These potential contributions are then lost to the community. We need to re-engage with this userbase and encourage them to participate in the community at a level that better reflects their willingness to contribute.

One of the fundamental tents of my platform is to give voice to what may otherwise have gone unspoken. To this end, I will actively seek out the minority opinion and ensure that its input is heard and considered, even though the majority views may eventually previal.

FlyerTalk is not perfect but then again neither is democracy. The fact that we are even having a debate as to how best to obtain feedback from the userbase of an internet forum is a credit to the FlyerTalk community.

Greetings all. This is going to be a fun exercise and I'm excited to be a part of adding to this community in another capacity other than posting perhaps. Being relatively new to the the community compared to all the original members and long time posters, I have made FT my home website and certainly am happy I have invested my time here. The knowledge collectively shared here has proved invaluable to myself and obviously thousands of others as the active membership numbers support.

I see this TB as an opportunity to volunteer some of my time to help the community, not as a way to gain power to rock the boat. I don't view this election or "debate" as a competition but rather a bunch of people who simply want to help out and allow the site to continue to run as efficiently as it has in the past. Thanks to all who have served in the previous years for it is a time commitment which is motivated by a spirit of giving back to the community. ^

In regards to the question I have a couple thoughts.

1. I didn't until recently know what the TB did or even who was a part of it. When I learned about it's function I realized that most probably don't even know it exists. Of those that do, they probably aren't sure how the TB can help them make their experience here a better one.

Proposed solution - Have a button similar to the report a bad post button (but unique in appearance) on every post that would send a PM to all TB members with whatever message that poster wants to send. I often feel the mod's are more well known on the board for their presence is advertised more with the report a bad post button. I don't know the IT feasibility of this idea but it would give people a way of contacting the TB members instantly. They wouldn't even have to know who the TB members are (to seek them out for a PM), but they know their message would be going to a group of people empowered to help facilitate a solution.

2. The above addresses access to the TB, I also want to acknowledge that some members don't want to post publicly their views on certain issues. It will require them to get outside their comfort zone and personality in dealing with other posters who have no problem being obnoxious and relentless. I want to respect some peoples decision to remain silent as many aren't posting here to right the wrongs of the site or to change the way of the world in any way.

Proposed solution -Having said this as a disclaimer this is one reason why the TB exists (as well as any other representative body) to use their own judgment on issues without having an election or poll of members for us to exercise it. People don't want to deal with political housekeeping issues of a site and simply want to gain valuable travel related information. Let the TB deal with the issues most don't sound off about.

I would do 3 things in arming myself with information to make a decision on a topic:

a. read the posts of interest to get a feel for parties involved and the issues raised.
b. read through any PM's sent using the soliciting TB button I proposed, or simply any PM's sent via other means.
c. discuss the issue with the TB itself as these people were already elected by the community and brainstorming the issues and solutions with this group would prove fruitful after a & b.

I didn't think I would be as long winded as I have been with this first issue, if you are still reading, sorry if you think it was a waste of time. :D

I would love to use the "I'm on vacation and don't have time to respond" excuse, but this is FlyerTalk. Besides, my wife's in the shower, which gives me adequate time to write something up. :D

I think that as a member of TalkBoard, my role is much different than the role I've taken on in the past -- interested, vocal, opinionated outsider. I recognize that and embrace that.

We need to make people feel welcome and also need to recognize that not everyone who participates heavily (or less heavily or even just lurks) is interested or willing to come to the TalkBoard Topics forum and get into a spirited exchange over which forums to add or remove or how to help FlyerTalk continue forward.

When proposals are put forth by members in the TalkBoard Topics forum, I (as a TalkBoard Member) will probably not respond publicly or give my opinion right away -- I would prefer to let other FT members give their opinions while I listen and formulate my own opinion on the proposal. As an extension, I promise *not to vote* until the end of a voting period or until people stop giving their opinions. I also promise that I will always tell everyone, via the public forum, why I casted my vote a particular way without being prompted to ask and I will encourage feedback to my votes, as well.

Regardless of the "official" FlyerTalk mantra where TalkBoard member (or moderators, for that matter) are members first and foremost, the truth is that a TalkBoard member making an opinionated stand in the public forum early in the process can stifle discussion and that's the last thing (as an opinionated, vocal member myself) would want.

That said, I recognize that it would be far to easy to give inordinate weight to vocal minorities, so it seems like it would make sense to do a little "traveling" around some of the more popular miles/points forums and perhaps encourage some of those members to provide feedback (solicit feedback publicly, but take feedback either publicly or by private message). While I'm only active on 3-4 points/miles forums (I really believe in *loyalty* and only stay at SPG properties and fly NW/DL), I see a lot of active people there who never have gotten involved in any TB discussions. Sometimes I wonder if they're not interested or perhaps they are blissfully unaware -- someone should be asking that question.

That's what I would like to do that as one of my first tasks as a TB member -- go out and try to get some people who have ben active yet not providing feedback the chance to have their voices heard (or to tell me they're quite happy the way everything is).

First of all, sorry for the late response. I just got back from London last night, so am trying to catch up. I believe I actually asked this question last year, and it swayed my vote towards a candidate, actually.

My approach to feedback is similar to gleff’s. I don’t always have a strong opinion about a subject to start with, which is why the TalkBoard Topics forum is crucial. I don’t think there’s a single post I haven’t read in the TalkBoard Topics forum in the past two years, even if I didn’t make an actual post in a thread. The TalkBoard Topics forum is a great place to ask questions and try to understand what the majority is thinking, based both on the amount of passion regarding the subject along with the sheer number of people voicing their opinions. At the same time, I typically don’t engage in “debate” in the public forum, because frankly I’m not trying to convince members of my opinion, but instead am trying to represent their opinions. I think the function of the TalkBoard is to represent the best interests of the members, and often the most practical way to do that is to just observe.

Great my first question and I feel like I'm back in French Class giving the 1,000 yard stare.

For the first question I think the answer comes back to the idea of followup. If a policy is implimented I'd like to return to the debate later and feel how people feel now. Or, if the policy is not enacted, I'd like to return to the issue later and see if a larger portion of people wanted a change.

The second question is hard to answer. The issue of privacy means that I wouldn't always be able to air what people tell me in confidence in a public forum. However, I'd be naive if I thought that the vocal ones were always the majority. I think the only way to be effective would be to let people know my ears and mind were always open and that all concerns would be given equal weight.

I'm sorry if these answers weren't as correct as what you were looking for.

First off, I'm excited to share this opportunity to support community in a new way. Online communities like FT have a 90/10 rule with far more visitors than posters, and within the minority of visitors who post an even smaller fraction regularly engage the community. Consequently it is important to listen to the most passionate members of the community, while at the same time thinking about how changes affect everyone else. I feel that the role of TalkBoard is to synthesize feedback from the entire community to make decisions that support the entire community. Most of the time this means reading what other people have to say, sometimes it means sharing my own thoughts publicly or privately. At the end of the day: FT is a highly successful community and we should not fix what is not broken.

What people post and what people write in private can vary dramatically. One needs to know when to take it off line and go directly to the source. Reading the comments of the membership does give a large indication of a members satisfaction level and, as we are all aware from the many forums, people do tend to point out their dislikes much easier than their likes and sometimes it is harder to elicit the positives - which opens the door for direct engagement.

The majority is represented by those who are most vocal but sometimes we have to take actions that the majority will not like. There is the here and now and then there is doing the unpopular to serve a greater need. Sometimes you have to go against the majority in order to get to a goal.

Rolls the sleeves up and sites backs, has cold beer at my table...ready to go...

Well feedback in any group, company or organisation is very important be it from employees, members or customers. Without feedback you cannot really improve things and there is nothing worse that the silent folk who think things are wrong but never say anything about it.

Folk should be able to give feedback openly and privately (some folk dont like to post their views on the forums). As for the vocal folk, well there will also be folk that are vocal but its not a case the louder they shout the more you listen, it can put people off and also shouting will not get their message across.

So we do need folk to post openly and privately, we should encourage feedback all the time be it negative or positive or just well its OK type stuff.

Silence does not mean that your doing a good job at running things, I would be more concerned if I did not receive any feedback.

J