Budget Travel - My "10 Euro" Ryanair ticket cost $67!

Yup, that's what I was billed for on a 9.99 Euro fare to Morocco -- and my credit card company only took 1 percent!

The last trick seems to be some sort of currency conversion thing for foreign visitors. It popped up on my screen that my x euros would be converted into y dollars. Nice, after all the other fees. :td:

And now I also have to live with their incredibly stingy baggage requirements.

FWIW, my Easyjet flight back to Spain cost about half this price (I couldn't fly Easyjet outbound because I was starting in Seville).

Ryanair claims their customers are satisfied. I doubt it. I feel a bit like I was pickpocketed. You feel sleazy doing business with them. I will avoid them whenever I can in the future -- and would be willing to pay more (within reason) to fly a competitor.

The last trick seems to be some sort of currency conversion thing for foreign visitors. It popped up on my screen that my x euros would be converted into y dollars. Nice, after all the other fees. :td:

Google "dynamic currency conversion". I've ran across this before in both the U.K. and Ireland where merchants want to charge me in $USD. I'm doing a lot more in cash there these days than with credit cards.

Check this Washington Post article on the topic:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/29/AR2005072900927.html

These forced currency conversions are a real racket. The credit card is going to charge you (unless it is CapOne or a handful of others) a 3% ''foreign usage charge'' no matter what currency it is in, so having a foreign airline make a currency conversion is of absolutely no benefit to you, only an extra and annoying fee for them.

These forced currency conversions are a real racket. The credit card is going to charge you (unless it is CapOne or a handful of others) a 3% ''foreign usage charge'' no matter what currency it is in, so having a foreign airline make a currency conversion is of absolutely no benefit to you, only an extra and annoying fee for them.

Yeah, I intentionally used a USAA mastercard for this one as they charge only 1%. It seems like I'll be charged the 1% on this one -- after Ryanair got through with me. Interestingly, it first showed up on my online credit card statement as the "right amount" in Euros, but now seems to be billed in dollars at the extra amount (3% higher, I believe). It's completely outrageous, especially in light of their other silly fees. And it's "real money" as I was buying tickets for 5 people.

In my case, the only real alternative to flying Ryanair was a train to a ferry to another train. In most cases, though, there is some viable alternative. I will always take it before I book Ryanair again.

There must be some info missing. Are you really saying the Ryanair price was €9.99 and you were charged $67 for the €9.99? I don't want to say, 'I don't believe it' but I don't believe it. :eek: If true, you should complain.

DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion) is an option allowed by Visa and Mastercard BUT the cardholder has to agree - and I never agree.

- http://www.nationwide.co.uk/mediacentre/PDF/Dynamic_Currency_Conversion_Factsheet1105.pdf
- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/29/AR2005072900927.html

In any case, it wouldn't amount to more than the 2% or so mentioned in the WP link, plus any surcharge your bank might add.

Or are you really saying that the Ryanair base price was €9.99, that various charges were added and that you clicked and agreed to a total price higher than €9.99?

Were you sure to remove the insurance which they try and add after you chose your flights? (Dont forget about the 5 Euro, 'you-arent-using-the-correct-card' fee)

On those 1 GBP and 1 euro tickets you pay oodlies of taxes. Did you check include the taxes along with the fees.

MisterNice

Or are you really saying that the Ryanair base price was €9.99, that various charges were added and that you clicked and agreed to a total price higher than €9.99?

Yes, I agreed to a price higher than €9.99. The only fee that's arguably COMPLETELY hidden is the currency conversion fee, which will escape most customers' attention unless they have a calculator handy.

The Ryanair strategy is definitely to advertise a low come-on fare and then keep adding fees and you go through the ticketing process.

My point is not to be lured into flying Ryanair when you see a really cheap fare. I think it's hard to believe that a 10 Euro ticket can come to almost $70 with no optional add-ons. That's pretty crazy (and deceptive), no?

On those 1 GBP and 1 euro tickets you pay oodlies of taxes.No, that's completely wrong. Those fares 'include' taxes and online check in. Any extras are for baggage, non-Electron payment and the like. I have several reservations at 2p (£0.02) round trip all in.

Of course, they can't really include taxes. FR pays for them and hopes to make up the money in ancillary charges such as baggage and catering.Yes, I agreed to a price higher than €9.99.Ah, so the premise of your first post was wrong. Your fare wasn't €9.99, it was something nearer $70 give or take currency conversion.

At no time did you click on €9.99 expecting to pay €9.99. You must have added other items and then clicked on the price agreeing to pay whatever the total was. If you didn't like it, you didn't need to buy.

Sorry, Ryanair have been around long enough for people to know how their system works. Like them or not, and clearly you don't, they are successful and profitable, and I believe are Europe's biggest airline.

Ah, so the premise of your first post was wrong. Your fare wasn't €9.99, it was something nearer $70 give or take currency conversion.

At no time did you click on €9.99 expecting to pay €9.99. You must have added other items and then clicked on the price agreeing to pay whatever the total was. If you didn't like it, you didn't need to buy.

True enough, but I didn't think I'd be out the door at $67. Given Ryanair's reputation, I guess I expected to pay about $40. If Ryainair's all-in prices had been on kayak (like Easyjet) I would have revisited all other alternatives before engaging in the lengthy booking process (where you are naturally not inclined to abandon and they nickel and dime you from page to page). But you see a 10 Euro fare and you think "I can't beat that" and buy. Ryanair is definitely "tricking" its customers. It's a bad long term business model, and will come back to bite them, IMHO, with dissatisfied customers.

Sorry, Ryanair have been around long enough for people to know how their system works. Like them or not, and clearly you don't, they are successful and profitable, and I believe are Europe's biggest airline.

+1 ^^

True enough, but I didn't think I'd be out the door at $67. Given Ryanair's reputation, I guess I expected to pay about $40. If Ryainair's all-in prices had been on kayak (like Easyjet) I would have revisited all other alternatives before engaging in the lengthy booking process (where you are naturally not inclined to abandon and they nickel and dime you from page to page). But you see a 10 Euro fare and you think "I can't beat that" and buy. Ryanair is definitely "tricking" its customers. It's a bad long term business model, and will come back to bite them, IMHO, with dissatisfied customers.

A list of all the fees Ryanair charges is available on their website (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/faqs.php?sect=CHARGES) prior to booking, so that a customer can do their due diligence.

True enough, but I didn't think I'd be out the door at $67. Given Ryanair's reputation, I guess I expected to pay about $40.
How much did you pay in Euro? I guess somewhere around €40 perhaps?

But you see a 10 Euro fare and you think "I can't beat that" and buy. Ryanair is definitely "tricking" its customers. It's a bad long term business model, and will come back to bite them, IMHO, with dissatisfied customers.All you need to do is follow the rules and that €10 will be €10. It's just that people can't be bothered to spend a few minutes working out the costs.

Ryanair really can work if you know what you are doing.... i personally have flown two times with them paying them 1 pence (or 2 cents), and thats it...

No one seems to object too much when they buy a $1000 advertised fare that actually works out to $1200.

9.99 Euros plus fees (I'm not sure if this includes checked baggage or not) to bring it up to 40-45 Euros is really not bad.

No one seems to object too much when they buy a $1000 advertised fare that actually works out to $1200.Good point. If the OP is in the US - and with two US airport codes as his/her FT handle, that may be possible :p - s/he would be well aware that NO air fares advertised in the US can be bought at the advertised price. That little asterisk diverting you to small print saying that taxes and charges may be payable, really! :rolleyes: :D

OTOH FR promotional prices of £0.01 can be booked - I've booked several :) - and more than 50% of FR tickets are at promotional (= inclusive) fares.

OTOH FR promotional prices of £0.01 can be booked - I've booked several :) - and more than 50% of FR tickets are at promotional (= inclusive) fares.

True enough -- if they're available in your market.

But my point is that many (most?) of the low cost airlines in Europe advertise MOST of their fares at a price much more comparable to what they actually cost. For instance, Easyjet's Spain to Morocco fares initially "appear" to be twice as high as Ryanair's but work out to be half the price (again, assuming you reject all optional add-ons). There is no question that Ryanair's business model relies on come-on pricing and then piling up fees little by little as you book (and then more fees when you actually fly, especially if you're not an expert on their baggage polices).

This type of sales strategy would almost certainly be illegal in the United States. Our DOT has fined airlines for "deceptive" advertising policies that are a lot more straightforward than Ryanair's.

There is no question that Ryanair's business model relies on come-on pricing and then piling up fees little by little as you book (and then more fees when you actually fly, especially if you're not an expert on their baggage polices).This is just plain wrong. There's a legal expression, caveat emptor - 'let the buyer beware'. Any online booking engine requires you to accept their terms and conditions. If you don't, you don't travel. If you accept Ryanair's terms and conditions without reading them, well, what can I say? I've not had the problem you describe.This type of sales strategy would almost certainly be illegal in the United States.What you describe would certainly be illegal in the EU.

I still don't understand why airlines in the US can get away with advertising fares which can NEVER be bought. Things like 'one way based on round trip, taxes and charges may be additional' when one ways can't be bought and tickets can't be bought without taxes and charges. That is DEFINITELY illegal in Europe. Fares must include non-optional charges. Even US airlines in Europe have to comply, so it can be done. :p

Yeah, I wish I could get my hands on that technology Ryanair has that forces people to click the purchase button!

This is just plain wrong. There's a legal expression, caveat emptor - 'let the buyer beware'. Any online booking engine requires you to accept their terms and conditions. If you don't, you don't travel. If you accept Ryanair's terms and conditions without reading them, well, what can I say? I've not had the problem you describe.What you describe would certainly be illegal in the EU.


"Caveat emptor" is not the law in the United States. I doubt it's the law in Europe.

In the US, you cannot deceive customers with come-on pricing that is not actually available for purchase. I believe Ryanair would be severely fined for their sales practices if they flew to the United States. Our closest Ryanair-type airline, Spirit -- which doesn't do a tenth of the nonsense Ryanair does -- recently received a record fine for (among other things) not including all their fees in their advertising.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/travel/news/sfl-spirit-airlines-fine-091709,0,3233299.story

I believe Ryanair would be severely fined for their sales practices if they flew to the United States.
No they wouldn't. Their headline prices are possible - you get a promotional flight, have hand luggage only and use an Electron Card to book. QED.

"Caveat emptor" is not the law in the United States.Oh, dear. :rolleyes: I didn't say it was the law. I said it was a legal expression. There is a difference. I believe Ryanair would be severely fined for their sales practices if they flew to the United States.Others as well as I have explained why you are wrong, most recently alanR who mentions FR's promotional fares. More than 50% of FR tickets are promotional fares.

If you really believe your theory, how do you explain my several confirmed all-in fares of £0.01 per flight?

Given that US airlines NEVER sell tickets at the 'come on' price they advertise and Ryanair CAN and DO sell at their promotional prices, I just don't understand your theory.

In the US, you cannot deceive customers with come-on pricing that is not actually available for purchase. I believe Ryanair would be severely fined for their sales practices if they flew to the United States. Our closest Ryanair-type airline, Spirit -- which doesn't do a tenth of the nonsense Ryanair does -- recently received a record fine for (among other things) not including all their fees in their advertising.

How do you figure that? You got that 10 Euro fare. It's just that there were a lot of taxes and fees on top of it. As others have pointed out, but you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge, pretty much all airlines in the US do this.

How do you figure that? You got that 10 Euro fare. It's just that there were a lot of taxes and fees on top of it. As others have pointed out, but you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge, pretty much all airlines in the US do this.
Other people will have got a genuine €10 fare as explained above. If US law on fares applied in Europe then no-one would get a €10 fare as US fares exclude COMPULSORY extras whereas European fares must include all non-avoidable taxes and charges.

Other people will have got a genuine €10 fare as explained above. If US law on fares applied in Europe then no-one would get a €10 fare as US fares exclude COMPULSORY extras whereas European fares must include all non-avoidable taxes and charges.

If you guys think these sales practices are reasonable, I suggest you call Michael O'Leary and seek employment. :) He could certainly use you in defending against the BBC investigations.

Other people will have got a genuine €10 fare as explained above. If US law on fares applied in Europe then no-one would get a €10 fare as US fares exclude COMPULSORY extras whereas European fares must include all non-avoidable taxes and charges.

If you guys think these sales practices are reasonable, I suggest you call Michael O'Leary and seek employment. :) He could certainly use you in defending against the BBC investigations.

BTW, what you Europeans are missing is that the extra charges leveled on US fares are almost exclusively mandatory taxes. Very few of Ryanair's extra fees are mandated. The company simply pockets the money.

..and? Did they somehow not make you aware of all of that before you pressed "PURCHASE NOW"?

Anytime I've purchased a flight there, the end price looked pretty obvious..

I recently bought a one-way on Cebu Pacific denominated in Philippine pesos and they offered a currency conversion that I declined. The wording was a bit ambiguous, though, and it'd look to many people like they were canceling the transaction rather than just declining to have it put through in dollars rather than pesos.

I've never flown Ryanair, but they've definitely been a template for others. The closest ones to follow in their footsteps that I've flown are Air Asia, Spirit, and Allegiant. All have their quirks and pitfalls, and avoiding as many fees as possible gets to be something of a science. But being a frequent bottom-feeder on some deals is atypical of the general public, which doesn't travel as frequently and may not want to try to keep up with all the changes.

The big winner from all of it might be the car (i.e. car-based vacations).

If you guys think these sales practices are reasonable, I suggest you call Michael O'Leary and seek employment. :) He could certainly use you in defending against the BBC investigations.

BTW, what you Europeans are missing is that the extra charges leveled on US fares are almost exclusively mandatory taxes. Very few of Ryanair's extra fees are mandated. The company simply pockets the money.
But headline prices in the EU include compulsory "taxes". MO'L would love to have a situation like in the US where compulsory items don't have to be mentioned in the headline prices.

As for Very few of Ryanair's extra fees are mandated, it also means they are avoidable - and many millions of Ryanair flyers DON'T pay them.

What is unreasonable is getting a price of $10 then finding that everyone has to pay another $50 on top of it.

I can also confirm that I have had multiple 2p return journeys, along with two 30p return journeys. I have also paid over £100 for a return flight with Ryanair on multiple occasions. If you are not happy with the fare, don't buy it.

I rarely find easyJet is cheaper, even after certain Ryanair fees - and $67 for a flight is hardly outrageous.

There seem to be a lot of people like yourself, sounding off about Ryanair being "unfair" or "illegal". Yet you still buy tickets....which I find hard to understand.

There seem to be a lot of people like yourself, sounding off about Ryanair being "unfair" or "illegal". Yet you still buy tickets....which I find hard to understand.
pre-tax profit of £376m in the first six months of this year. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8337340.stm)

But headline prices in the EU include compulsory "taxes". MO'L would love to have a situation like in the US where compulsory items don't have to be mentioned in the headline prices.

As for Very few of Ryanair's extra fees are mandated, it also means they are avoidable - and many millions of Ryanair flyers DON'T pay them.

What is unreasonable is getting a price of $10 then finding that everyone has to pay another $50 on top of it.

You have to make a distinction between taxes and fees. Taxes go to the gov't agencies. Fees (typically) go to airline, and the airline ones are generally avoidable. May not be pleasant, but you have the option. Like the infamous checked bag fee. Don't like the fee, don't check a bag.

And unreasonable may not be illegal.

Thus having "taxes" in double quotes. Unavoidable charges - whether government or airline made - must be included in the headline price of airline tickets. If they are avoidable they don't have to be.

Now contrast that with the US situation where "taxes" (ie taxes, fees, charges) do not have to be shown "up front" but are added on after the mark - sorry passenger - has already been hooked.

I have little sympathy for the original poster.

Less than 70 dollars for a flight to Morocco (from?) and he/she is complaining?

From the original post it's unclear which country's dollars he/she paid in. Let's assume it's the USA (since it's most likely that Americans will think that "dollar" has to refer to their currency and forget that it's also other countries' currencies). I think you'd be hard pressed to find such value from a US carrier. In my (limited) experience, "low cost" in the US is nothing like as low as Ryanair.

I only ever fly on Ryanair for peanuts, once for nothing. From memory, recent round trips from the UK to Spain have cost £2, £8, £10 and £35.

The only legitimate complaint concerns the "compulsory" conversion fee. When buying tickets in euros I'd prefer my card to be billed in euros but Ryanair insists in converting it to sterling. As the fares are so cheap I'm not prepared to make an issue of it.

I take the view that it's only the final amount which matters. So what if a £9.99 fare becomes £49.99, say, if you're still paying less than airline employees do for staff travel on legacy carriers?

So, my message to the original poster is: "Quit moaning!".

I have little sympathy for the original poster.

Less than 70 dollars for a flight to Morocco (from?) and he/she is complaining?

So, my message to the original poster is: "Quit moaning!".

Not complaining about the price -- although the flight is less than 500 miles and this is the most expensive intra-European airfare I'm currently holding (out of more than a dozen rezzies).

I'm complaining about the sales practices. If everyone did business like this, buying ANYTHING on the internet would be a nightmare.

I'm amazed at how many folks condone these practices. It's more than just about price. You need to do business responsibly.

You need to do business responsibly.

The point is, they are. You're not forced to purchase the flight if you don't like the end price, and as has been stated, the breakdown is there to be examined. If you like it, buy it, if you don't: walk away.

I'm complaining about the sales practices. If everyone did business like this, buying ANYTHING on the internet would be a nightmare.
If we adopted the US system then O'Leary would (as he used to do) have headline prices of 1p to which he would then add £50 work of compulsory extras.

So, what was the actual conversion rate used?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/budget-travel/1014371-ryanair-financial-result.html

Thus having "taxes" in double quotes. Unavoidable charges - whether government or airline made - must be included in the headline price of airline tickets. If they are avoidable they don't have to be.

Now contrast that with the US situation where "taxes" (ie taxes, fees, charges) do not have to be shown "up front" but are added on after the mark - sorry passenger - has already been hooked.

They don't have to include them but if you use kayak.com they show the total fare. of course bags can be extra$. Many nonstops I take only cost like $15 for tax and fees.

They don't have to include them but if you use kayak.com they show the total fare. of course bags can be extra$. Many nonstops I take only cost like $15 for tax and fees.

I was going to book a 9.96Euro fare from Madrid to Alicante, but the credit card fee was $15.41Euro... so I'm still contemplating if I should try someone else.

Their 0.99Euro fare on the same route comes out to about 26Euro before the credit card fees... somehow the first one has less taxes than the second.

I was a little confused by the card charge (was it dollars or Euros?), so I made a dummy booking MAD-ALC-MAD for 18-20 January 2010.

Cost was €1 each way for the flights (€0.93 for the flight plus €0.07 for 'taxes') plus €5 each way for credit/debit card payment, so €6 each way including online check-in and hand baggage. The payment fee would have been €0 with a Visa Electron card. Cabin baggage costs extra.

Prices fluctuate, so your dates are different. The answer is: if it looks good, after you have checked all the extras, book it. Or book IB at €47 return.

I was going to book a 9.96Euro fare from Madrid to Alicante, but the credit card fee was $15.41Euro... so I'm still contemplating if I should try someone else.

Their 0.99Euro fare on the same route comes out to about 26Euro before the credit card fees... somehow the first one has less taxes than the second.

"Should I try someone else".

You're kidding, right?

Have you seen what Iberia and Spanair charge on this route?

(I'm very familiar with this route and am exceptionally pleased that Ryanair has decided to put an end to the Iberia/Spanair high fares duopoly. If you do see an Iberia low fare it's only a spoiler which definitely wouldn't have been there if it didn't have to compete with Ryanair. And one more thing: the last time I flew on this route on Iberia there was a 2 hour delay - for a 35 minute flight! - and I missed an appointment for dinner in Madrid. When I wrote to complain - no response! I later heard from someone who works for Iberia that this particular flight was often delayed and that staff avoided travelling on it, and yet (if true) Iberia management allowed this to continue.)