MilesBuzz! - Zipcar - A company that bills on one card and refunds on another

So there's Zipcar.com in many cities across the US and in London too.

The clever thing about Zipcar is that you can reserve online in advance.

Your profile contains your credit card details and your account is billed instantly.

You can only reserve a maximum of 4 days in a row however there are 52 weeks in the year so there's a lot of days to be reserved.

You can rack up near enought $20k in reservations.

Wait until the transactions post which take a day or two.

THEN.... go back into your profile and switch the credit card or put in a debit card.

Click CANCEL on each of your 52 reservations... the money is then refunded automatically back to your new credit card or if you put a debit card in your profile straight to your bank account.

I know several people who have done this who made their Hilton HH Gold Status with $20k for free and another 10k in US Airways Preferred miles...

One shrewd chap actually used a 0% APR purchase card and booked $15k in bookings... refunded the money to his bank account and then put the cash into a savings account for a few months!

There are not many companies that do this and clearly its a loophole in Zipcars billing system that needs to be exploited!

Verrrry intriguing... Now I regret closing my Zipcar account earlier this year :eek:

Closest ZipCar to me is Miami. :( Not that I couldn't still work this angle. I just would like to use ZipCar since I don't own a car. Thanks for the info. ^

hmmmm.... I could join for $35/yr. I wonder how many times one could do this & refund it to a different card (without ever completing a reservation) before they catch on?

Everyone does realize that Zipcar has to pay per-transaction fees to its merchant bank, and therefore this scheme costs them significant money, right? The percentage fees are often refunded on chargebacks, but the per-transaction fees are not. It may be a loophole, but it's not "victimless" - Zipcar will incur significant costs through exploitation of this loophole.

What happens if they close the loophole before you get stuff refunded?

What happens if they close the loophole before you get stuff refunded?

No sweat. You will still refunded via the original payment method (credit card).

Zipcar is doing great service towards a greener planet. Let's not exploit this loophole if it is going to cost them money. Majority of Zipcar customers are students, low income families, young professionals, etc.

Does this really work?! Perhaps one has to be on a particular plan. We frequently make and cancel Zipcar reservations, but we only get charged after completing the reservations.

Zipcar is doing great service towards a greener planet. Let's not exploit this loophole if it is going to cost them money. Majority of Zipcar customers are students, low income families, young professionals, etc.


+1 however, looking at this I learned some new information about their service and probably will take advantage of it when I'm in Seattle & Houston...

There is a similar thread that may be worth reading here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/648043-i-refunded-my-purchase-still-got-miles-here-how.html

I have my opinions about whether this is ethical or not, but I'll leave it to the individual to figure out whether it's worth it to them or not.

Everyone does realize that Zipcar has to pay per-transaction fees to its merchant bank, and therefore this scheme costs them significant money, right? The percentage fees are often refunded on chargebacks, but the per-transaction fees are not. It may be a loophole, but it's not "victimless" - Zipcar will incur significant costs through exploitation of this loophole.

If I had to guess, I would think they wouldn't get the percentage fees refunded either since it's going back to a different card.

So for someone racking up $20k in charges and doing a refund to a different card you're potentially costing them $500 or more (figure 2% per transaction between their per transaction fee and their percentage fee).

No sweat. You will still refunded via the original payment method (credit card).

Zipcar is doing great service towards a greener planet. Let's not exploit this loophole if it is going to cost them money. Majority of Zipcar customers are students, low income families, young professionals, etc.OK, fair enough.

Does this really work?! Perhaps one has to be on a particular plan. We frequently make and cancel Zipcar reservations, but we only get charged after completing the reservations.

I believe this is the case for me too.

Regardless, zipcar is a great company and doing this trick will hurt their bottom line.

I believe this is the case for me too.

Regardless, zipcar is a great company and doing this trick will hurt their bottom line.

Right. And as we rely on them a lot for car use, I wouldn't want my account closed for abuse, either.

It depends on how your account is set up.

For some their credit card charges as soon as you make a reservation.

For other the billing takes place at the end of the reservation.

Clearly, this little trick only works when you get billed ahead of time!

I am obviously missing something. Unless the refund goes into your bank account, as opposed to another credit card, I don't see how you gain anything. If it goes to another credit card, you then have to spend on the
2nd credit card to make use of the credit, spending that could just as well have been done on the 1st card.

So I ask, how do you benefit unless the refund goes into your bank account?

I have no problem with extracting the maximum number of miles legally possible from banks and credit card companies. IMO they are only one step above loan-sharks. But ZipCar is a different story. Small companies providing a useful service to the community should not get ripped off in our pursuit of FF miles. It gives us a bad name.

I have no problem with extracting the maximum number of miles legally possible from banks and credit card companies. IMO they are only one step above loan-sharks. But ZipCar is a different story. Small companies providing a useful service to the community should not get ripped off in our pursuit of FF miles. It gives us a bad name.

^i agree. we're talking about hundreds of dollars p/ person they could be losing if someone tried to max this out. exploiting banks & CC companies is one thing...but don't do it to small businesses.

I am obviously missing something. Unless the refund goes into your bank account, as opposed to another credit card, I don't see how you gain anything. If it goes to another credit card, you then have to spend on the
2nd credit card to make use of the credit, spending that could just as well have been done on the 1st card.

So I ask, how do you benefit unless the refund goes into your bank account?

Let's say you have a checking account with a $3000 balance. You have a Visa debit card tied to the checking account. All purchases on the card get debited to your checking account and all refunds get credited. Lets say you have a miles-earning credit card as well with a zero balance. The card earns 1 mile for every dollar charged.

1) Spend $1000 using the miles-earning cc.
2) Return the $1000 item but have the refund go to your Visa debit card. Your checking account will now have a balance of $4000.
3) Pay the $1000 balance of your miles-earning cc on-line from your checking account.

You now have $3000 in your checking account; a zero balance on your miles-earning credit card; and 1000 free FF miles.

The loser is the the merchant. You bought something and returned it. That's a wash. But when you bought it the merchant paid a discount fee to the miles-earning cc. Let's say 1%. That would be $10. He kept only $990 from your $1000 purchase. When you returned the item the refund was put on the debit card. You got your $1000 back. The merchant won't get a $10 credit from Visa (assuming a Visa debit card) because the merchant doesn't pay 1% on debit card purchases.

The merchant is out $10. Yet you got 1000 FF that, in essence, the merchant paid for.

If you make a mistake and do this it's just an honest mistake. If you orchestrate doing this just for the miles then, IMO, you are conning the merchant out of money. IMO, no different than if you tricked the cashier into giving you $10 extra in change from a cash purchase.

the biggest issue I see here is the flexable morals people have been expressing about 'ripping off' and taking advantage of companies. If the company where Wal-Mart of Exxon (if you could find a way to return gas) I am guessint the comments here would be different. If ripping off company A is wrong so is ripping off company B.

It amazes me sometimes the lengths some people will go to for points... IMHO this is nothing but fraud, pure and simple..

As an actual, long-time Zipcar member, this thread looks like a lot of nonsense. My credit card is only charged after I have used the car, not at the time the reservation is made, making this scam impossible. I challenge anyone who is an actual Zipcar member to outline how they are able to have their credit card charged at the time of the reservation. Maybe the OP can get one of his "friends" who was able to scam Zipcar to show us how it's done. As I said before: utter nonsense.

As an actual, long-time Zipcar member, this thread looks like a lot of nonsense. My credit card is only charged after I have used the car, not at the time the reservation is made, making this scam impossible. I challenge anyone who is an actual Zipcar member to outline how they are able to have their credit card charged at the time of the reservation. Maybe the OP can get one of his "friends" who was able to scam Zipcar to show us how it's done. As I said before: utter nonsense.

Perhaps we (FTers) are the subject of a marketing experiment or PR stunt. Honestly, I had heard about ZipCar but never looked into it. And I don't own a car! I rent when I am at home.

I will not try to work this angle for free miles. But I am now very interested in ZipCar and looking at how it might save me money when I am on the road for biz. (Can't help me at home because I live in Ft. Laud).

Right now I am looking at how this might save me money on car rentals, parking of rental cars, insurance, etc. Often when I am on a biz trip the car I rent is used once or twice during the week and really only needed for getting me to and from the airport.

Regardless of the validity of the miles scam, this thread has brought to ZipCar a potential customer. My only regret is that I don't have enough time for my application to be approved for my trip next week to downtown Chicago. But I am thinking that the following ORD trip might be different. Thanks OP.

^i agree. we're talking about hundreds of dollars p/ person they could be losing if someone tried to max this out. exploiting banks & CC companies is one thing...but don't do it to small businesses.

I agree. I think the OP should have his head examined. THIS IS JUST WRONG...I WISH THIS THREAD WOULD BE LOCKED AND CLOSED.

Zipcar is not exactly a small business and the ethics of the "charge one card, refund to another" scam can (and have been, ad nauseam) be debated elsewhere. My point is that this can't be done with Zipcar.

Zipcar itself is a great company that has saved me lots of money on car rentals and has meant I don't need to buy/lease a car and deal with the expense and hassle that entails in Brooklyn. Unfortunately, they do not have cars at airports either in NYC or Chicago (or other cities AFAIK).

the biggest issue I see here is the flexable morals people have been expressing about 'ripping off' and taking advantage of companies. If the company where Wal-Mart of Exxon (if you could find a way to return gas) I am guessint the comments here would be different. If ripping off company A is wrong so is ripping off company B.

Agree completely. Does not matter if it is a small "Mom and Pop" store or Costco, it is all the same.

I have no problem with extracting the maximum number of miles legally possible from banks and credit card companies. IMO they are only one step above loan-sharks. But ZipCar is a different story. Small companies providing a useful service to the community should not get ripped off in our pursuit of FF miles. It gives us a bad name.

Wait, so ripping off a big company is more acceptable than ripping off a small company? I'm lost...

If an institution allows for "extracting the maximum number of miles" through the various systems they have set up, it is completely legal. However, legal does not always imply ethical.

On the same hand, maybe credit card companies get something out of issuing new cards or the mint somehow benefits from sending out tons of coins ... I don't know. If "churning" or whatever one may do to maximize miles is so completely detrimental to a company, you would think they would know about it and change their model. If they don't know about it, well they need to get better at their business. If they know about it and don't change it, that's the same as condoning the practice.

Perhaps we (FTers) are the subject of a marketing experiment or PR stunt. Honestly, I had heard about ZipCar but never looked into it.

BINGO! What better way to get exposure to the most dedicated of travelers than to post with an offer of free miles!?!

One question for those who might know: how is this company much different from a regular rental car company? I can think of two minor ways: they let you rent on an hourly basis, and there is no attendant to hand you the keys to the car. Other than that, I see no difference.

Also, on their website it says one of the reasons they started this company was because they're serious about saving the planet. What??? They're providing cars, yet they're serious about saving the planet? Doesn't make much sense. If they really cared, they would try to get as many cars off the road and encourage people to take public transportation.The premise of one renting a car, thus not needing to OWN one, how does that save the planet?

BINGO! What better way to get exposure to the most dedicated of travelers than to post with an offer of free miles!?!

One question for those who might know: how is this company much different from a regular rental car company? I can think of two minor ways: they let you rent on an hourly basis, and there is no attendant to hand you the keys to the car. Other than that, I see no difference.

From what I gathered from ZipCar.com...

* You needn't fill the tank when you return it using your own money. Just fill the tank with the ZipCar provided cc when the tank gets to 1/4 full. Go in essence, gas is included. Awesome.
* Insurance is part of the hourly rate - not an add-on and not the responsibility of the driver. Wonderful.
* 1 day and 1 hour of use is .... 25 hours... not 2 days as many rental car companies see it. Great.
* No waiting in line for a counter agent to spend 15 minutes fiddling with computer screens and printers for a normal transaction that they have performed countless times but for some reason you'd swear they were doing this for the first time... yet again. (Honestly, I entered all my address information on line, yet when I get to the counter the agent has to type it in all again... WTH ! ? !) Innovative!
* No waiting in line to return the car only to find the amount is more than you were told because of all the extra fees and taxes. Really?!

I'm sold. I am going to use it I am sure.

Wait, so ripping off a big company is more acceptable than ripping off a small company? I'm lost...


IMO there is a big difference between applying for a credit card in order to get FF miles and the ZipCar scam. The former is an enticement by the bank to get you to use their credit card. The bank will make money on merchant fees for items that you charge. Not to mention extortionate late fees if you happen to forget a payment. The latter is basically fraud - you are deliberately causing an unsuspecting merchant to lose money.

As an actual, long-time Zipcar member, this thread looks like a lot of nonsense. My credit card is only charged after I have used the car, not at the time the reservation is made, making this scam impossible.

Actually it is not impossible as I have also garnered a few thousand miles from this very process.

As it happens it was completely inadvertent in that I had made some reservations and then cancelled them shortly afterwards.

In between I had also changed my credit card and the refunds were posted to the new credit cards rather than the original one.

It also depends how your account it set up. Some are set up to be billed after the reservation is over... others are billed ahead of time.

You can ask them to alter your billing preferences.

Essentially this is a loophole in Zipcar's billing procedures.

FT'ers love to exploit such loopholes and grab them whilst they're still open.

And when Zipcar change their computer system so that refunds are posted back to the original credit card then the party will be over ...but until that time!

but until that time!Until that time, you're essentially stealing from the company. If you left your front door unlocked by mistake, would you feel that it was somehow OK for people to walk in and steal your stuff, just because you forgot to lock the door? Just because someone leaves themselves open to exploitation does not make it acceptable to exploit them.

One question for those who might know: how is this company much different from a regular rental car company? I can think of two minor ways: they let you rent on an hourly basis, and there is no attendant to hand you the keys to the car. Other than that, I see no difference.

Also, on their website it says one of the reasons they started this company was because they're serious about saving the planet. What??? They're providing cars, yet they're serious about saving the planet? Doesn't make much sense. If they really cared, they would try to get as many cars off the road and encourage people to take public transportation.The premise of one renting a car, thus not needing to OWN one, how does that save the planet?

Unlike the major rental companies, ZipCar doesn't have a single centralized location only at a major airport. They don't even have smatterings of suburban rental offices. Instead, they have (in areas where they have good coverage) many, many (several dozen or more) small rental lots--sometimes just a couple of parking stalls or spots on a curb--blanketing the whole city.

This allows someone to live a car-free lifestyle in areas with good public transit but who would occasionally need a car to run an errand or something or who needs to go off the transit grid. In some instances--where the coverage allows--it can even allow someone to commute to a workplace that's not near transit: they can take the train to a station with a ZipCar lot and then drive to work, leaving the car in another ZipCar lot nearby (so you don't have to pay for it the whole time you're at work) and reversing that at the end of the workday.

I think that's why they make the claim about being green: they enable transit usage where it's not otherwise feasible.

Unlike the major rental companies, ZipCar doesn't have a single centralized location only at a major airport. They don't even have smatterings of suburban rental offices. Instead, they have (in areas where they have good coverage) many, many (several dozen or more) small rental lots--sometimes just a couple of parking stalls or spots on a curb--blanketing the whole city.

This allows someone to live a car-free lifestyle in areas with good public transit but who would occasionally need a car to run an errand or something or who needs to go off the transit grid. In some instances--where the coverage allows--it can even allow someone to commute to a workplace that's not near transit: they can take the train to a station with a ZipCar lot and then drive to work, leaving the car in another ZipCar lot nearby (so you don't have to pay for it the whole time you're at work) and reversing that at the end of the workday.

I think that's why they make the claim about being green: they enable transit usage where it's not otherwise feasible.

Also, if many people are sharing cars that means less cars actually manufactured. If 20 cars serve the needs of 100 people that means 80 less cars than 100 cars serving the needs of 100 people.

Also, if many people are sharing cars that means less cars actually manufactured. If 20 cars serve the needs of 100 people that means 80 less cars than 100 cars serving the needs of 100 people.
Right--think about it: most peoples' cars sit idle for 10+ hours in a garage at night and 8 hours during the day at work. While late-night and mid-day demand will always be less than peak commute times, car sharing increases the potential utilization of existing cars.

This isn't true. Zipcars need to be returned to the same spot where they were rented. I have a zipcar account and use it about five or six times a year.

Renting a car to run errands is helpful, however zip car is a bit expensive. one hour in a typical car can cost about $8-9. So after 3 hours you could probably get a car from a traditional rental agency for an entire day. Sure zip car includes gas, but how much gas will you actually use going to Ikea or Costco? as for longer trips you are limited to 160 free miles a day, if you go over that you'll pay at least $0.45/mile. Sure it includes insurance, but you still have a $500 deductible. Yet a lot of credit cards include free insurance when you rent with the card. So from my perspective the insurance is worthless.

I also seriously question the idea that zipcar takes cares off the road. If zip car wasn't available, i wouldn't go out and buy a car. It is just to expensive and like many young members, I move around a lot. I have been in China the past few months, so buying a car just doesn't make sense. As i only need one a few times a year. If zip car wasn't available, i would probably have taken public transit, borrowed a friends car, ordered Safeway delivery instead of going to the store ect. So for me, zip car as resulted in more driving not less.

Zipcar also has very expensive fees for returning a car late, even if it is only one minute. I can understand the fee if another member has the car after you. However the fee applies even if no one else has the car after you. If there is no car there when you have a reservation don't expect zipcar to pass any part of the $50 fee they charged another member your way.


This allows someone to live a car-free lifestyle in areas with good public transit but who would occasionally need a car to run an errand or something or who needs to go off the transit grid. In some instances--where the coverage allows--it can even allow someone to commute to a workplace that's not near transit: they can take the train to a station with a ZipCar lot and then drive to work, leaving the car in another ZipCar lot nearby (so you don't have to pay for it the whole time you're at work) and reversing that at the end of the workday.

I think that's why they make the claim about being green: they enable transit usage where it's not otherwise feasible.

This isn't true. Zipcars need to be returned to the same spot where they were rented. I have a zipcar account and use it about five or six times a year.

Wow. I was unaware of this. That makes Zipcar much less appealing.

Are there other car sharing companies that allow one-way drops?

I think there may be some companies testing the idea in the Netherlands. I do not know of any company in the US that allows it.

If you live in a zipcar city and a car is on your block it is very convenient. However, I don't accept the notion that people put off buying a car because of zip car. Everyone I know who has zip car uses it for dates, shopping, picking friends up at the airport ect. All things you would otherwise have to take public transit, order for delivery ect.

and as i said before, what ever you do, make sure you don't return the car late.

Wow. I was unaware of this. That makes Zipcar much less appealing.

Are there other car sharing companies that allow one-way drops?

As it seems that there's nothing left to say about mileage here, I'm closing this thread.