bmi diamond club - BD598 LHR-MAN (29OCT) zeroed out - is this the sign of a cancellation?

I have a relative booked on the BD598 LHR-MAN on Thursday (29th October).

I was just curiously checking how much the seats were pricing up at compared to when we booked and to my suprise, it wasn't showing up as an option.

Knowing that the departure was 1510, I thought perhaps that it had been rescheduled and I hadn't noticed. However I have accessed the booking on CMT and it seems nothing has changed.

Looking at seatcounter shows that the flight has been completely zeroed out.

Now I cannot believe that BD has sold all seats on that flight (or any flight come to think of it) - they can barely fill half a plane on any given day.

My fear now is that the flight is due to be cancelled and he won't find out until on the day. Does anyone share my pessimism or am I thinking too much into it? :D

I have a relative booked on the BD598 LHR-MAN on Thursday (29th October).

I was just curiously checking how much the seats were pricing up at compared to when we booked and to my suprise, it wasn't showing up as an option.

Knowing that the departure was 1510, I thought perhaps that it had been rescheduled and I hadn't noticed. However I have accessed the booking on CMT and it seems nothing has changed.

Looking at seatcounter shows that the flight has been completely zeroed out.

Now I cannot believe that BD has sold all seats on that flight (or any flight come to think of it) - they can barely fill half a plane on any given day.

My fear now is that the flight is due to be cancelled and he won't find out until on the day. Does anyone share my pessimism or am I thinking too much into it? :D

It's going to be cancelled. I've had exactly the same thing happen to me on a MAN-LHR flight.

Wonder how they know of these 'technical issues' days in advance.

No insight into the flight you mention, but I was recently surprised at the loads on MAN-LHR-MAN flights in the afternoon. About 85% full on an A320 the way down and only 2 free seats on an A319 on the way back.

Not a big data point to work from, but I was pretty surprised as our last domestic flights had very light loads compared to this.

Talking of surprised, I was looking into some LHR-MAN flights in December, and on certain days, there are 10 flights scheduled on this route! Three between 7am and 9am, three between 7pm and 9pm, and two within 25 minutes of each other in the late morning

What's the betting that this is to give the appearance of slot utilisation and that if I book on any given flight, there will be a 50:50 chance of it being cancelled for "technical reasons" a few days before the event???

There are an absolutely absurd number of MAN-LHR-MAN shuttles in the winter timetable. The number of seats available far outstrips demand.

Back to the BD598 flight in question, it would appear that the aircraft operating that flight would return to LHR as BD591 which still has seats available.

I am not convinced however that the 598 flight will operate. Think I'll prepare my EU261 letter in advance. :D

Dear Henry,

I have checked our systems and do see that the BD598 for the 29th October is definitely operational as scheduled. The flight however is sold out and therefore there are no seats available to book.

Incase there is schedule change to be expected on the flight Mr Boddingtons would be certainly notified well in advance. I hope the information helps to clarify any doubts.


Kind Regards,
bmi Helpdesk

Well to my complete suprise, it would seem that there's quite a demand for the afternoon domestics after all :eek:!

If there is an event on in the evening in Manchester this can be reason for all the 0s as well e.g. Manchester Albion or whatever the team there is called might be playing? I've had this on Saturday flights before.

BD596 cancelled this evening, although the 590 was full and the 593 almost empty.

I see Mr Turner is enthusing in this month's Voyager magazine about the winter schedule for MAN, which is a sure sign that it is a bad idea.

It looks like the 598 is operating tomorrow (29th), so your relatives should be ok.

At the moment, it's scheduled to be an ex Bmed A320, so prebook the seats if possible as it's an all economy service.

It looks like the 598 is operating tomorrow (29th), so your relatives should be ok.

At the moment, it's scheduled to be an ex Bmed A320, so prebook the seats if possible as it's an all economy service.

Yes, noticed it on expertflyer the other day. Checked him in at 1510 yesterday afternoon and bagged him one of the business seats.

I'll be fooked if I can work out what they are doing with the MAN flights. Not long ago you had to be in LHR before 8am or forget connecting with anything ex-LHR until late afternoon. Now we've got a shuttle service.

I didn't even realise we had two late evening flights leaving at exactly the same time until this week on the way back from BKK. I went to the *A lounge first then made my way over to gate 8 half hour before departure. I popped in to DC lounge to see if they had called it:

'Have you called the Manchester flight yet ?'
'Which one ?'
'The five to nine'
'Which one ?'

I haven't had anyone in the same row as me this year either way so I do fear for the route. Glad to hear some are seeing good loads.

Insane.

Is it possible that they are intending to cancel one of these late evening super-high-frequency shuttle services to MAN on a regular basis, but not the same one each time? This would allow them to operate enough flights over each week to keep each slot pair alive while having enough flexibility to reaccomodate the pax from the cancelled service.

Or am I being cynical?

Insane.

Is it possible that they are intending to cancel one of these late evening super-high-frequency shuttle services to MAN on a regular basis, but not the same one each time? This would allow them to operate enough flights over each week to keep each slot pair alive while having enough flexibility to reaccomodate the pax from the cancelled service.

Or am I being cynical?

That sounds like quite a good idea actually

Insane.

Is it possible that they are intending to cancel one of these late evening super-high-frequency shuttle services to MAN on a regular basis, but not the same one each time? This would allow them to operate enough flights over each week to keep each slot pair alive while having enough flexibility to reaccomodate the pax from the cancelled service.

Or am I being cynical?

They quite often operate both together. Typically an A319 and then an EMB. More often than not they both fly.

Actually it seems to be an A321 followed by an A319 on some dates. On Wednesday 2 December there are 10 flights each way at preposterous intervals:

Departing LHR to MAN:
07:10 (A319)
08:00 (A319)
08:55 (A320-100/200)
10:50 (A319)
11:35 (A319)
15:10 (A319)
16:55 (A319)
19:30 (A319)
20:55 (A321)
21:00 (A319)

Departing MAN to LHR:
06:40 (A319)
08:55 (A319)
11:00 (A320-100/200)
13:25 (A320-100/200)
13:50 (A319)
13:55 (A319)
14:55 (A319)
16:50 (A319)
18:55 (A319)
21:10 (A319)

Meanwhile BRU is being served by Embraers and you can't fly north of Cheshire after 6.30pm (except to Aberdeen, for now). This is fishier than Friday lunchtime at Billingsgate. What's going on? Charter positioning?

Departing MAN to LHR:
...
13:25 (A320-100/200)
13:50 (A319)
13:55 (A319)
...



The above grouping of flights is particularly bizarre. On the day I fly the equipment is listed as:

13:25 (A321)
13:50 (A320)
13:55 (A319)

I'm slightly peeved as I'm booked on the latest of the three - the only one scheduled when booking last month - so not much chance of a comfy seat at the front for me :(

Not much chance of the flight actually operating, either ;)

Meanwhile, I spied an Airbus parked at a gate in AMS yesterday ready to operate a flight to LHR at around 15:45.

This was at 9:30 in the morning!

Some crazy utilization of resources going on!

Meanwhile, I spied an Airbus parked at a gate in AMS yesterday ready to operate a flight to LHR at around 15:45.

This was at 9:30 in the morning!

Some crazy utilization of resources going on!

bmi is doing a lot of W and H patterns - without looking in to this situation in particular - that Airbus could have popped down to BRU to do a rotation or two before/if even returning. You wouldn't know.

I'd be very surprised if a craft was sitting idle (ie not making money by flying) for 6 and a bit hours.

Someone who has a bit of time on their hands and understands ACARS could answer this question fairly easily.

Someone who has a bit of time on their hands and understands ACARS could answer this question fairly easily.

Paging Oxon Flyer ;)

They quite often operate both together. Typically an A319 and then an EMB. More often than not they both fly.

We were on a 319 (BD594) and I saw a 321 land right behind us at MAN. It had an all white livery so presume an ex-Bmed bird. Our flight was about half full.

We were on a 319 (BD594) and I saw a 321 land right behind us at MAN. It had an all white livery so presume an ex-Bmed bird. Our flight was about half full.

On my flights it was a full A320 followed by a half empty (judging by the gate) EMB-145.

Having looked at the winter timetable it does look rather heavy on the 319/320s on these flights.

Some very bizarre goings on.

Sort of blows the we didn't have enough slots to run Tees and Leeds out of the window! (And the fact that Flymaybe are running lots of flights a day to LGW from LBA). Turner, you were possibly one of the worlds worst bean counters turned CEO's.

Having read the Q3 report to investors by LH and don't think they know what to do in the short term.

Completely as an aside. I've been twice TATL on LH in C recently andit was packed. Can't believe that things aren't picking back up a little. In-fact, virtually every flight i've been on recently has been 90% full or better.

Capacities are much reduced on last year - just remember that - fewer passengers perhaps, but also fewer flights and smaller planes...

And lower yields on those fares (although possibly offset by cost cutting by the airlines....and soon to be discounted ATC charges).

...Completely as an aside. I've been twice TATL on LH in C recently andit was packed. Can't believe that things aren't picking back up a little. In-fact, virtually every flight i've been on recently has been 90% full or better.

General consensus on M&M board is that LH are really heavy overbooking Y cabin and dishing out op-ups a plenty for status pax.

Just away to book a flight from MAN to LHR and found a flight departing 05.30

I presume if you check in at 04.30 the lounge isnt open?



Tuesday 1st December 2009

05:30MAN 06:40LHR BD583 Airbus Industrie A319
06:40MAN 07:50LHR BD581 Airbus Industrie A319
08:55MAN 10:05LHR BD585 Airbus Industrie A319
11:00MAN 12:05LHR BD587 Airbus Industrie A319
13:25MAN 14:35LHR BD571 Airbus Industrie A320-100/200
13:50MAN 15:00LHR BD597 Airbus Industrie A320-100/200
13:55MAN 15:00LHR BD589 Airbus Industrie A319
14:55MAN 16:05LHR BD573 Airbus Industrie A319
16:50MAN 17:55LHR BD591 Airbus Industrie A319
18:55MAN 20:00LHR BD593 Airbus Industrie A319
21:10MAN 22:20LHR BD595 Airbus Industrie A319

Just away to book a flight from MAN to LHR and found a flight departing 05.30

I presume if you check in at 04.30 the lounge isnt open?



Tuesday 1st December 2009

05:30MAN 06:40LHR BD583 Airbus Industrie A319
06:40MAN 07:50LHR BD581 Airbus Industrie A319
08:55MAN 10:05LHR BD585 Airbus Industrie A319
11:00MAN 12:05LHR BD587 Airbus Industrie A319
13:25MAN 14:35LHR BD571 Airbus Industrie A320-100/200
13:50MAN 15:00LHR BD597 Airbus Industrie A320-100/200
13:55MAN 15:00LHR BD589 Airbus Industrie A319
14:55MAN 16:05LHR BD573 Airbus Industrie A319
16:50MAN 17:55LHR BD591 Airbus Industrie A319
18:55MAN 20:00LHR BD593 Airbus Industrie A319
21:10MAN 22:20LHR BD595 Airbus Industrie A319

How many flights exactly do they need in a day?

How many flights exactly do they need in a day?

Let me assist you with that - looks like 11 :D

I'm glad to see I'm well covered at lunchtime. It's nice to have a choice of the 13:25, 13:50 and 13:55 as I'd hate to wait more than 30 minutes.

Could Mr AIRBUS215 perhaps proffer an explanation as to what on earth is going with this absurd winter schedule?

Slot sitting? From where though?

Wasn't there lots of chatter last year about LH wanting to make MAN a hub? I expect we'll begin to see flights to MUC and FRA appear at familiar looking times. ;)

Wasn't there lots of chatter last year about LH wanting to make MAN a hub? I expect we'll begin to see flights to MUC and FRA appear at familiar looking times. ;)

Well they've already upsized the planes to FRA and MUC for the winter timetable, so I suspect there is still going to be a fair bit of traffic heading ex-MAN via Germany for a while.

If the availability in the reservation system is being Zero'd out within 7 days of departure, it usually means the flight is fully booked.

If the availability is being Zero'd out minimum 1 week before departure, one can pretty much assume it is being cancelled.