Southwest Rapid Rewards - Does WN turn planes in 15 minutes?

In this trashy piece (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=09&month=oct&story=pro-en-131009) Ryanair claims that Southwest schedule is to turn planes in 15 minutes. News to me, and search didn't turn anything up. Anyone knows?

I am a bit skeptical of the entire article, as most of the points in it are, well, lies and/or twisted logic. I particularly like #2, which in essence is like saying that McDonald's doesn't like Gallup because when they poll Americans about their favorite restaurant the result doesn't put McDonald's as #1, even though it's the most frequented one. Of course, the dictionary defines favorite as "Liked or preferred above all others; regarded with special favor"...

They are looking for 20-25 minute turns and typically come pretty close.

I think 20 minutes is the minimum scheduled turn around on Southwest. Many are scheduled for 25.

I've seen Southwest turn a plane in 15 minutes, but only with a light load.

Very rare that WN would turn a plane in 15 min unless an extremely light load both inbound and outbound. Takes that long just to unload and load bags.

About the shortest scheduled turn I have seen is 25 min., and ofter 30 min. Still that is quite fast considering all that has to be done.

Then again, what is turn time? Is it time plane docks at gate until it starts backing off? Usually I see plane may be loaded and pax seated, but we do not start backing out for 3-8 min later.

It's standard practice to allow at least 20 minutes of turn time, but I have been involved with turns that have taken 15 minutes or less. At one time Southwest was well known for turning planes in 10 minutes standard. It could still probably be done, but you'd have to get everyone on the same page about it in advance and be ready to rock and roll the minute the plane is chocked in.

Panorama claimed that “O’Leary is a bully” – this is clearly false when the whole world knows that O’Leary is a kind and gentle, caring and thoughtful, sensitive and saintly human being widely beloved by all Ryanair’s 6,500 people and its 66m passengers.

:D:D:D!!!!

Jim Parker's book "Do the Right Thing" describes the origins of the 10 minute turn at SWA. The airline had expanded to 4 airplanes, but was bleeding cash so had to sell one to make payroll. To operate the same schedule, SWA figured out how to reduce turn times.

Also, part of the strategy was to close the door and pushback while pax were still standing and looking for a seat. The pilots were not supposed to taxi with pax standing but some did. Herb fought with the FAA to continue the practice but lost the battle. At least one pilot was violated and fined by the FAA.

It also helped that SWA did not use aircraft cleaners between legs like the OAL's

A captain friend hired in 1976 stated that the elimination of the smoking section and the invention wheels on bags helped to kill the quick turns.

At least one pilot was violated

You may want to edit. :)

It takes 7 minutes to unload passengers from a full plane. It takes longer to load. Turnarounds of 15 minutes are only possible these days with very light loads both inbound and outbound.

I think its neat that they used to push back from the gate sometimes with pax still getting settled. The plane is usually not moving that fast and your more likely to get hurt eg fall down when a city bus pulls out of a bus stop than you are if a plane is moving out of a gate. Also the industry has gotten a lot more cautious eg with having flight attendants stay seated even often with the most miner turbulance.

I am not a fan at all of this crazy safety culture. We talked about it last Christmas with my stepbrothers, and how say in the 60's and 70's "danger" was more appreciated or something. They indicated growing up during this time you did not have this constant overriding quest to be "safe," and you often as a child did very dangerous things.


On one of my first flights in the late 80's it was stormy and nobody even thought for a fleeting moment that the crew would not serve snacks and drinks due to light to moderate chop. I would imagine only in truly severe turbulance would you not serve.

Somehow flying seems funner if we did not have this constant nag of every little thing re safety, eg pulling out of the gate before the last person might be fully settled. Also of course in early days you had the f/as being nurses because there was a real sense of danger and maybe it was somehow more romantic or more of an adventure back then?

A captain friend hired in 1976 stated that the elimination of the smoking section and the invention wheels on bags helped to kill the quick turns.
I can understand the wheeled bag slowing things down based on everyone taking 3 attempts at getting it in the overhead but the elimination of the smoking section? Was it that paxs rushed off the plane to breathe?

I was on a TUS-ABQ-BWI flight earlier this year and we were at the gate in ABQ no more than 15 minutes. As soon as everyone was off and the count was verified, boarding started.

I've also noticed they turn planes very quickly in SFO. ^

I can understand the wheeled bag slowing things down based on everyone taking 3 attempts at getting it in the overhead but the elimination of the smoking section? Was it that paxs rushed off the plane to breathe?

Smoking sections were typically in the rear of the cabin. So in the early days on SWA there was a rush to go the back of the airplane, light up and see how many free bloody mary's you could consume.

Trivia: In the 80's I was on a Japan Airlines flight LAX to Narita. I was in First and noticed that there were only two of us sitting on the left side. It was because the smoking section in F was on the right side. Before takeoff the other person moved to the smoking section so I was the only American on the left side. All the Japanese businessmen were on the right puffing away.

Jim Parker's book "Do the Right Thing" describes the origins of the 10 minute turn at SWA. The airline had expanded to 4 airplanes, but was bleeding cash so had to sell one to make payroll. To operate the same schedule, SWA figured out how to reduce turn times.

I don't have Parker's book handy, but I posted this excerpt from Lamar Muse's book on WN's blog last year:

The late Lamar Muse wrote in his book, "Southwest Passage," about the birth of the ten-minute turn following the court-ordered charter shutdown and deal to sell the fourth 737 to Frontier:

"I had called a staff meeting to inform our supervisors that Southwest [... was] still dead in the water unless we could continue our every-hour flights in the Dallas-Houston market with only a three-aircraft fleet. I explained that the only way we could do that was to fly the airplanes fifty minutes and turn them in ten minutes, as opposed to the twenty-five minutes we were currently scheduling. Their response? We can, and we will! Would you believe that our flight completion and on-time performance factors actually improved after instituting the ten-minute turns into our schedule on May 15, 1972? It was a team effort lead by Bill Franklin [then the VP of Ground Operations, I believe]."

Years ago, especially at airports where there were no jetways, didn't they have the back door open as well as the front door? That would obviously speed things up tremendously.

Years ago, especially at airports where there were no jetways, didn't they have the back door open as well as the front door? That would obviously speed things up tremendously.

Still do at Burbank and there might be others...

And that was the rationale behind the dual boarding jetbridge that was tested at Dallas and Austin. It was sort of a neat contraption where the rear part would swing out over the wing and mate to the back door. It was made by a Swedish/Danish/Norwegian??? company that makes these things for cruise ship boarding. SWA had an exclusive on this for 5 or 7 years or so. But this was pre 09/11 and before winglets.

Hey all....

I came across a flight tomorrow with a scheduled 15 minute turn! I guess it still happens occaissionally!

Flight 3704 on Oct. 30

DAL-ELP 0700-0840
ELP-PHX 0855-1015

(All times central)

Hey all....

I came across a flight tomorrow with a scheduled 15 minute turn! I guess it still happens occaissionally!

Flight 3704 on Oct. 30

DAL-ELP 0700-0840
ELP-PHX 0855-1015

(All times central)I think you could probably find a few more out of DAL, I bet half the passengers or more are typically thrus on that flight.