KLM Flying Dutchman - 9 hour layover at JNB - KLM lounge or Day Room?

We're flying on points (Business) from JNB to AMS (then onto YYZ) - we arrive at JNB about 3pm and our AMS flight doesn't leave until 00:45am - is the KLM lounge fairly comfortable for that time or alternatively a local B&B has been suggested for the afternoon/early evening (African Dreams Guesthouse).

Comments appreciated.

There is no KLM lounge at JNB anymore - you can use the AF lounge.
However I am not sure it will be open that early?
The first AF flight is around 19:30, but maybe it's open earlier because of other airlines using it?
Better check.
The lounge itself is ok, a bit overrated actually.

Thanks - I just searched for other AF references and have seen mention that it opens at 6am - will check that out...

In the lounge now, so I asked:

10 a.m. - last flight (which currently is KQ to NBO at 00:40).

Johan

There is no KLM lounge at JNB anymore - you can use the AF lounge.
However I am not sure it will be open that early?
The first AF flight is around 19:30, but maybe it's open earlier because of other airlines using it?
Better check.
The lounge itself is ok, a bit overrated actually.

You're right there. Its a terribly sterile kinda place and the staff I have found to be a bit, not rude, but going through the motions? The old AF/KL lounges were grim at JNB but the staff on the desk were top notch in my experience - that seems to have gone. One young lady got a colleague to go and find my suitcase off an SA flight from LAD when I was connecting to a later KL flight as so many didn't make the transfer for reasons unknown. Service was amazing. Now you ask about your case being in the system and they say yes, even when you know they haven't looked. Shame, really.

I have more or less given up and started going for a pint somewhere else in the airport!

I have more or less given up and started going for a pint somewhere else in the airport!It would seem you are not the only one. Yesterday only 3 out of 26 WBC pax bothered to use the lounge.

Johan

It would seem you are not the only one. Yesterday only 3 out of 26 WBC pax bothered to use the lounge.

Johan

Not surprised in the slightest. The atmosphere in that place is just wierd IMHO.

Considering that the lounge is quite new, and that they started with a clean sheet, it is amazing that they managed to build such an uninviting and impractical lounge. The toilets and showers take first prize, they are the worst designed I've ever seen in a lounge, or outside it for that matter.

Johan

Considering that the lounge is quite new, and that they started with a clean sheet, it is amazing that they managed to build such an uninviting and impractical lounge. The toilets and showers take first prize, they are the worst designed I've ever seen in a lounge, or outside it for that matter.

Johan

The funny thing is, at first it looks inviting with its still shiney newishness. Once you get settled in though you realise that actually, its crap. Uncomfortable seating, mediocre food, random rubbish on tvs that can be seen by 10 % of the lounge, staff that would clearly rather be elsewhere and as you rightly say the nonsense toilet / shower scenario. First - two bogs for a room that large is nuts. Second - there is always a sign on a shower room saying its bust. I will give them their drinks selection though, its decent.

The bar round the corner in the new duty free bit at least has a bit of life to it!

And on a brighter note: the ICH (http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/intercontinental/en/gb/locations/johannesburg-ortamboairport)accross the road from the terminal is pretty d*mn good. Call them and ask for a day room.

Why don't you arrange a transfer to Sandton and have a great lunch on Nelson Mandela Square, do some shopping there, enjoy the great Spring weather and then make your way back to the airport?
What a wasted opportunity to sit in a lounge for 9 hours.....

the ICH accross the road from the terminal is pretty d*mn good. And pretty d*mn expensive too. At the rates they are charging, service should be impeccable. It is not, if my one experience is anything to go by. Never again. Can't wait for the new City Lodge that is being constructed on top of the Parkade to open.

On brighter note, the IC Quills restaurant serve the only decent food in or near the airport. Service can be a bit slow though, so allow plenty of time before your flight.

Johan

And pretty d*mn expensive too. At the rates they are charging, service should be impeccable. It is not, if my one experience is anything to go by. Never again. Can't wait for the new City Lodge that is being constructed on top of the Parkade to open.

On brighter note, the IC Quills restaurant serve the only decent food in or near the airport. Service can be a bit slow though, so allow plenty of time before your flight.

Johan


Always the optimist!

Gloom and Doom-sayers aside the ICH is perfect. If you don't want to take my word for it, read customer reviews here (http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/intercontinental/en/gb/locations/johannesburg-ortamboairport).

Why don't you arrange a transfer to Sandton.....Should be a cinch once the Gautrain gets moving.


enjoy the great Spring weatherOr the afternoon thundershowers. :D

Off topic, but KL have not exactly been improving their JNB service recently. First they switched from 747s to 777s, and with the upcoming winter schedule the arrival and departure times will change for the worse. I should perhaps thank FB for chasing me into the arms of the competition in good time.

Johan

Always the optimist!

Gloom and Doom-sayers aside the ICH is perfect. If you don't want to take my word for it, read customer reviews here (http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/intercontinental/en/gb/locations/johannesburg-ortamboairport).


I stay here overnight very often and really like it. Rooms are very nice and staff friendly. I can heartily recommend the Springbok burger on the menu in Quills. Superb. Yes, its only a burger but you'll see what I mean when you get one.

Thanks again - will definitely be avoiding the lounge!

Does anyone know if we can check our bags in LVI (Livingstone) with SAA through to YYZ on KLM?

Thanks again - will definitely be avoiding the lounge!

Does anyone know if we can check our bags in LVI (Livingstone) with SAA through to YYZ on KLM?

If on one ticket, this should be OK, SAA and KLM have a through-check agreement.

We're separately ticketed - one paid and one on points - still possible?

We're separately ticketed - one paid and one on points - still possible?

Well, I do that from LAD - JNB - AMS - ABZ often on two separate tickets and Luanda do put the full route on it. I give the luggage tag to transfer desk and they seem to put it on. However, that is usually I time thing. If you have the time, I would pick it up and check in again to be honest. There are horror stories from our company but they could be on the LAD side as much as the JNB.

Gloom and Doom-sayers aside the ICH is perfect. If you don't want to take my word for it, read customer reviews.I guess they must be an accepting and uncritical bunch. :D

Anyhow, perfect means flawless, so my single experience is enough to disqualify them.

When checking in, I was first told that I had canceled one of two rooms booked, which I most definitely had not. Despite documentary proof or reservation, the matter could only be resolved by the duty manager. Needless to say, the second room we were allocated had not been prepared for arriving guests.

Early next morning, I called the number given in the directory for flight information, only to be told to go down to the lobby and check the screen myself! Yeah, right! That's just what I want to get out of bed for, especially at an airport hotel.

Neither incident brought the word "perfect" to mind, nor did the problems with Internet access in the Business Center that could not be resolved (and probably still haven't been years later, as I could see when I walked past a few days ago).

I don't believe in giving service providers a second chance if I can avoid it, and this one I can definitely avoid. Besides, their room rates are outrageous, and based only on location. I'm all for a competitive market economy, so the sooner that advantage is undermined the better. City Lodges provide all I need (a comfortable bed and a clean bathroom) at very reasonable rates.

I can heartily recommend the Springbok burger on the menu in Quills. Superb. Yes, its only a burger but you'll see what I mean when you get one.Yep, I recommend it too. They tend to disappear from the printed menu from time to time, but are always available on request. I've eaten countless Springbok burgers over the years, but back in the good old days they were served with your choice of potato wedges or homemade fries (not the industrial kind you get now) and without the bacon and what South Africans seem to believe is cheese. A Springbok burger should be savored without having its flavor masked by cremated pork.

Their deserts are not bad either, e.g. the Rich Dark Chocolate Marquise I had last Tuesday. Not to mention the Chocolate Hot Pot they served some years ago.

Restaurant prices are not unreasonable, if only service was not so slow they would be . . . what's the word again? Perfect?

Johan

Johan, you do strike me as somebody who is... er... very critical to say the least. I can't recall any positive experiences from you. That makes it less likely that your experiences are objective. Remember the boy who cried wolf?

I have nothing but good experiences there and so do many others, apparently.

I can't recall any positive experiences from you.Try a search, I'm sure you will find one. Maybe even two. :D

so do many others, apparently. "Apparently" is the key word here. Online reviews flourish on the web, I read recently that even some escort services now publish customer reviews on their sites, every single one of which is glowing. Enough said!

Johan

Enough said!

Utter rubbish... Tripadvisor is a very respectable source of independent reviews and I refer to my experiences and those of chunk73 in support.

Really Johan... You should really lighten up a bit. Life is way too short to be so negative all the time.

:D:D:D

Really Johan... You should really lighten up a bit. Life is way too short to be so negative all the time.Since all you think you know about me comes from what you have read on here (and I suspect you have only read a tiny proportion of my many posts, or else you would have come across quite a number of instances where I warmly recommend various hotels), I respectfully suggest that you may want to consider refraining from jumping to conclusions about my personality, let alone giving me advice on how to conduct my life. You have no way of knowing what I am all the time, some of the time, or even none of the time.

Utter rubbish... Tripadvisor is a very respectable source of independent reviews and I refer to my experiences and those of chunk73 in support.Fine, but my experiences differ in this instance, and I prefer to go by my professional judgment (hotel guest services has been my line of business for decades), not what others say. I adhere to the sound principle of taking advice from people I know well enough to be able to trust. The opinions of others I don't take at face value, which is why I have never logged on to any review site. Except those of escort agencies, of course :D

Johan

I agree. I don't know you at all and that is why your sole opinion is of no value to me. However the combined opinion of 400 or so reviews on Tripadvisor has a great statistical likelihood of being correct on average. That is why I linked to it and thank you for making my point.

I did not mean to judge you. You come accross as negative and extremely critical especially towards KLM. If you are not such a person you might want to review your style of communication, since you are once again right that I have nothing to judge you on but the style of your written communication here.

I am sure you are a very nice guy though. (Upon rereading a random selection of your posts it seems your frustration is aimed towards KLM most of all. You are right, I did find positive posts too. Apologies)

Well we certainly went OT on that one... :rolleyes:

Let us know what you chose to do whilst in JNB please.
a) you went to the lounge - how was it
b) you went to the Intercontinental - how was it
c) you found a better option hotel-wise
d) you found a great other way to spend your 9 hours.

Thanks!

I am sure you are a very nice guy though.But of course! You can take it from me, at face value. :D

ApologiesGracoiusly accepted.

Johan

But of course! You can take it from me, at face value. :D


Lets start 'postadvisor' where people can objectively critique and rate individual posts and posters alike... :D

Well we certainly went OT on that one... :rolleyes:

Let us know what you chose to do whilst in JNB please.
a) you went to the lounge - how was it
b) you went to the Intercontinental - how was it
c) you found a better option hotel-wise
d) you found a great other way to spend your 9 hours.

Thanks!

Will do - our trip is March 2010.

Actually, Johan was right about the speed of service sometimes in Quills, but it never really bothers me to be honest. Nice glass of red and they are such a nice bunch working in there usually that the time it takes to get the old 'springy' out passes fast enough. Its the relish that comes with it as well....top notch. ANyway, the only issue I have had with that hotel of late is the sheer cost. It is quite pricey and were it not for an early start the next morning we would probably stay in Rosebank or around Sandton - where high class hotels are cheaper.

To summarize the options:

For those with a long daytime layover

If your are jetlagged or just want to sleep

- if money is no object (or your employer takes a pre-crisis view of travel expenses), the IC is the closest option, just across the street from the terminals. Has a decent restaurant too.

- There is a considerable number of much cheaper hotels a 10-15 minute transfer ride away.

You want to go shopping

East Rand Mall is not as fancy as Sandton, but much closer.

You want to be entertained

The Emperors Palace complex 10 minutes away. Has a halfway decent food court as well.

You want to go sightseeing or visit museums

Johannesburg is not a European capital, but there are a few options. Township tours can be arranged, but Soweto is (fortunately) not the place it used to be (my last Soweto township tour was in 1990). If you want to see a real township, try Diepsloot. If you dare.

You want rest and recreation

The Birchwood is inexpensive, has extensive gardens, a pool, restaurants etc, and is right nextdoor to the East Rand Mall.

You need to spend the night at or near the airport

- if cost is immaterial, drag yourself and your luggage across the street to the IC, and then drag everything to domestic or international departures (quite a distance) next morning.

- book a room at one of the four hotels at the Emperors Palace complex + a limo (only R 150). The chauffeur will meet you in arrivals, carry your bags to the car waiting kerbside, and whisk you off to your hotel, whilst you refresh yourself with mineral water and wet towels. Total cost a fraction of the IC, and at Emperors Palace you will find not only a casino, but also a food court and such practical things as ATMs in a secure complex.

Net morning you will be dropped off at the departure hall of your choice.

For those arriving on the late KL and KQ flights from AMS and NBO respectively, the choice should be a no-brainer, in my humble opinion.

Johan

Last time I went to Emperors Palace ( a few months ago admittedly) there was a lot of contruction going on around the faux shopping food area - maybe thats done now?

I did the Soweto tour last December and its still pretty interesing. Well worth it IMHO.

Last time I went to Emperors Palace ( a few months ago admittedly) there was a lot of contruction going on around the faux shopping food area - maybe that's done now?I walked through it early one morning a few weeks ago, and one or two outlets still looked like empty shells.

Johan

The Emperors Palace... Now that must be the most ridiculous place I have ever seen! That totally failed imitation of The Venecian... There are often parties or functions there which can cause a lot of noise. Not my cup of tea but fun on some level. :D

We arrived JNB 5 hours early and found that Delta did not open until 2.5 hours before flight time so we could not get to where lounges were. Went over to nearby hotel for a bite and found it had lounges for several airlines, not Delta. My Priority Pass got me lounge access and they looked the other way and allowed my wife in with charging. Lounge was nice. We got back to airport around 3 hours early and cleared security with about 2 hours to go. There was so much to see in the airport we never did make the lounge there - it was a looong way from the gate anyway.

The Emperors Palace... Now that must be the most ridiculous place I have ever seen!It is the epitome of kitsch, but I find the casino really dispiriting. I walked through it out of curiosity round 8 a.m. one Saturday morning, and found a mixture of hardcore gamblers and very sad people in wheelchairs or just down on their luck who figured that winning at the tables was the only chance of brightening their future.

Johan

I also thought it was a sad kinda place and have no great urge to revisit it. The other classic faux Venetian kinda place in Johannesburg is better but still slightly deranged. Montecasino was it? Can't remember.

What about those with a long evening layover? I land around 5pm and fly out just after midnight. I expect it's not worth getting a hotel by the time immigration and check-in times are taken into account. Any suggestions about what to do for the evening? Or would I be better off just hanging around the airport? I'm female, and travelling solo, so safety is a concern if I were to venture out.

Any suggestions about what to do for the evening?Pop over to the IC, have a drink at the bar, and then dinner in the Quills restaurant. Pretty good food at decent prices.

Johan

Pop over to the IC, have a drink at the bar, and then dinner in the Quills restaurant. Pretty good food at decent prices.

Johan

Softening up Mr Rebel? :D

I, for one, love reading your (re)views on hotels and air travel in general so please don't ever stop ^

Regarding Oliver Tambo airport; last time I was there it was called the Jan Smuts International Airport and it was back in the mid 80's. A very cold and almost Stalinist look over the place and SAA/SAL was not allowed to fly over Africa so flight to Europe easily became a 15 hour trip on 747SP's via Cape Verde for refuelling on certain routes...

Softening up Mr Rebel?...Not really, but there is just no denying Quills is the only quality dining venue at or near ORTIA.

Regarding Oliver Tambo airport; last time I was there it was called the Jan Smuts International Airport and it was back in the mid 80's. A very cold and almost Stalinist look over the place and SAA/SAL was not allowed to fly over Africa so flight to Europe easily became a 15 hour trip on 747SP's via Cape Verde for refuelling on certain routes...Yep, remember those long flights (the alternative was KL with a stop in NBO in the middle of the night), as well as Jan Smuts, where international departures consisted of Hall A and Hall B. The term "hall" was very apt!

Johan

Yep, remember those long flights (the alternative was KL with a stop in NBO in the middle of the night), as well as Jan Smuts, where international departures consisted of Hall A and Hall B. The term "hall" was very apt!

Johan

Did the KLM flight as well (CPH-AMS-NBO-JNB) before jumping on a local air company called "United Air" for Gabs; Was taken to the far end of the airport in a bus where a DC3 was awaiting our arrival. Sat in row 2, saw oil (or a brown/black liquid) leaking from the wing, no table as this had either been stolen or fallen off, was served green, red or yellow squash and that was it :-)

But nothing beats the trip when SAS used DC-10's, also via NBO, and where we had to disembark for one reason or the other :-) C class was very different in those days compared to what you get today :eek:

Got off topic here... My apologies