Southwest Rapid Rewards - So PO'd at SW Cust. Svc!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called last Friday to ask for some help figuring out a problem I was having when searching for my TTFs on the website.
I have 4 or 5 confirmation #s that I'm certain have significant funds on them and when I search them on the website, I get wrong amounts or messages about funds not found or expired. All expire on either 1/03/10 or 3/10/10.

The rep I spoke to on Fri. definitely saw a problem and said that it looked like something to do with "a changeover to a new system awhile back". Since I'd had a similar problem that required a search by a specialist back in April, I wasn' surprised when she said that she would probably need until Mon. to get the answers.

Monday came and went, so I called back today. New rep finds no notes regarding my initial call. Takes all the info again and then tells me to E-MAIL THRU THE WEBSITE. Now, I've NEVER been given an e-mail option--in fact, I've requested it and been firmly refused.

I checked the website and found no option to open a search on TTFs--only the option to compliment or complain.

I called back immediately, begin a conversation with yet another rep and the phone system cuts me off summarily. I call back and get a message that they're in a meeting for 90 mins.

I have to say, I pity the next rep I get on the phone......I am so pissed off right now. I'll start out by apologizing for my behavior, but someone has to take the heat for this mess.

I want answers and I want them NOW! I've been very patient and it's worn thin. SWA broke the system when they changed it and now they're making it my problem--and probably my loss in the end because no matter what I say, I'm sure that whatever they're @#$%^& &* system tells them, they'll believe.

Thanks for reading my vent!

Seems like a handle change is in order.

Keep in mind WN makes TTF traceability tough for a reason - they want you to lose the funds or forget about them.

I have used the web email option to have them research TTF for me in the past. I think their are three options in that list for email types: Complaint, Compliment, and Comment / Question. I doubt it makes much of a difference, but I always choose the Comment / Question option and then explain which TTF I want more info on. Usually get a response in a week. They do keep track of these emails very well in their system, as I have seen them refer to past emails while talking to them. However, with the recent changes to their system, it seems like there are no guarantees for service :(

Keep in mind WN makes TTF traceability tough for a reason - they want you to lose the funds or forget about them.

Do you have a source for that assertion or are you a mind reader?

I called last Friday to ask for some help figuring out a problem I was having when searching for my TTFs on the website.
I have 4 or 5 confirmation #s that I'm certain have significant funds on them and when I search them on the website, I get wrong amounts or messages about funds not found or expired. All expire on either 1/03/10 or 3/10/10.

The rep I spoke to on Fri. definitely saw a problem and said that it looked like something to do with "a changeover to a new system awhile back". Since I'd had a similar problem that required a search by a specialist back in April, I wasn' surprised when she said that she would probably need until Mon. to get the answers.

Monday came and went, so I called back today. New rep finds no notes regarding my initial call. Takes all the info again and then tells me to E-MAIL THRU THE WEBSITE. Now, I've NEVER been given an e-mail option--in fact, I've requested it and been firmly refused.

I checked the website and found no option to open a search on TTFs--only the option to compliment or complain.

I called back immediately, begin a conversation with yet another rep and the phone system cuts me off summarily. I call back and get a message that they're in a meeting for 90 mins.

I have to say, I pity the next rep I get on the phone......I am so pissed off right now. I'll start out by apologizing for my behavior, but someone has to take the heat for this mess.

I want answers and I want them NOW! I've been very patient and it's worn thin. SWA broke the system when they changed it and now they're making it my problem--and probably my loss in the end because no matter what I say, I'm sure that whatever they're @#$%^& &* system tells them, they'll believe.

Thanks for reading my vent!

swaluvr -

I'm sorry to hear that you have gone through so much and still have no answers to your questions.

Please PM me with your confirmation numbers and I will see what I can find out for you.

SWAVictor

Seems like a handle change is in order.

Keep in mind WN makes TTF traceability tough for a reason - they want you to lose the funds or forget about them.

Wrong. The reason is that Southwest doesn't want to spend the money and staff time to make it easier.

Wrong. The reason is that Southwest doesn't want to spend the money and staff time to make it easier.

Flip side of same coin. I'm speaking as the customer, you as the company. Of course they won't say they want to make things difficult. It just happens to fall short on their priorities...

Flip side of same coin. I'm speaking as the customer, you as the company. Of course they won't say they want to make things difficult. It just happens to fall short on their priorities...

It's the flip side of the coin if one side is belief that the company routinely tells you the truth and the other side is belief that the company routinely lies to you. Some companies fit very neatly into the latter category, but Southwest is firmly in the former category. And I'm a customer, not an employee.

It's the flip side of the coin if one side is belief that the company routinely tells you the truth and the other side is belief that the company routinely lies to you. Some companies fit very neatly into the latter category, but Southwest is firmly in the former category. And I'm a customer, not an employee.

^

It's the flip side of the coin if one side is belief that the company routinely tells you the truth and the other side is belief that the company routinely lies to you. Some companies fit very neatly into the latter category, but Southwest is firmly in the former category. And I'm a customer, not an employee.

This is a math question, not a philosophy question. The company had no problems programming in inventory controls on awards, adding more high-fare buckets, early boarding fees, and a very recent redesign of the entire website booking engine.

Of course the customer's ability to keep track of money fell low on the zbb list. Let's be realistic - the accountant-led airline chose revenue enhancement every step of the way.

Maybe folks don't like how I summarized it in post #2, but that is the real perception to folks like the OP. When it comes to managing TTF, you're on your own.

By the way, that is the same story on other airlines. Same math.

And if we want to consider "lie" v. "truth" - has WN even given an official reason for either limiting # of TTF applied to a reservation or not providing ability to keep track of all of them?

I'm a customer too.

And if we want to consider "lie" v. "truth" - has WN even given an official reason for either limiting # of TTF applied to a reservation .

Yes they have. I don't feel like digging up the answer, but it had to do with the ability to connect with the codeshare of ATA and other airlines, I believe.

has WN even given an official reason for either limiting # of TTF applied to a reservation

As for M = 4+2T vs. M = 20, the new system is just hard-coded that way and there was little choice in the matter.

or not providing ability to keep track of all of them?

SWABrian said last year (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/9992895-post17.html) that he felt it was something folks should track themselves, but posted later (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/9993073-post21.html) in the same thread that he thought funds tracking would be part of the new system. Perhaps he can provide an update on that when he returns.

swaluvr -

I'm sorry to hear that you have gone through so much and still have no answers to your questions.

Please PM me with your confirmation numbers and I will see what I can find out for you.

SWAVictor


Thanks so much for your kind offer, SWAVictor.

I called yet again and was told by rep, Nick, that a file had been opened (by which rep, I don't know). He also called me later to say that he was able to unravel the trail on one of the funds. He's going to research the others and call me back. He was the first one to take the bull by the horns and to follow up. I'm going to let him continue to work on it.

I'll take you up on the offer if I hit another roadblock.

SWABrian said last year (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/9992895-post17.html) that he felt it was something folks should track themselves, but posted later (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/9993073-post21.html) in the same thread that he thought funds tracking would be part of the new system. Perhaps he can provide an update on that when he returns.
^ Good idea. Keep in mind if WN fixes this, they would be the only one to my knowledge that does this.
Thanks so much for your kind offer, SWAVictor.

I called yet again and was told by rep, Nick, that a file had been opened (by which rep, I don't know). He also called me later to say that he was able to unravel the trail on one of the funds. He's going to research the others and call me back. He was the first one to take the bull by the horns and to follow up. I'm going to let him continue to work on it.

I'll take you up on the offer if I hit another roadblock.

^^

I have to side with uastarflyer on this one. It is terrible that WN does not have a better system to allow customers to track their funds. The info is in the computer -- should be easy to inquire by RR#. I know there are some that do not have that, but few that use TTF.

Maybe WN should not let you find Awards -- just make you keep track of the Award numbers that you have? Similar concept.

I have to side with uastarflyer on this one. It is terrible that WN does not have a better system to allow customers to track their funds. The info is in the computer -- should be easy to inquire by RR#. I know there are some that do not have that, but few that use TTF.

Maybe WN should not let you find Awards -- just make you keep track of the Award numbers that you have? Similar concept.

I agree that it would be great to have funds tracking on the website. I disagree with uastarflyer's assertion that Southwest is lying about the reason this function has not been added.

Imagine you have a limited website development staff and budget. You have to develop the highest-value changes. In evaluating funds tracking functionality you might ask some of the following questions:

Do competitors offer this? No. Competitors let you track miles/credits/awards, but not travel funds.

Will it bring extra revenue to Southwest? Perhaps a little, but not in any amount that anyone could measure.

Do I have anything else that needs to be done with my limited resources? Hell, yes!

If I ask management to approve this project, might they instead decide to eliminate funds re-use entirely?

It's the last question that concerns me, and SWABrian has hinted at it here. If we seem happy with the lack of funds tracking, it's mostly that we don't want to force the end of a good thing.

It's the flip side of the coin if one side is belief that the company routinely tells you the truth and the other side is belief that the company routinely lies to you. Some companies fit very neatly into the latter category, but Southwest is firmly in the former category. And I'm a customer, not an employee.

It's all about semantics. Clearly, WN has no motivation to make TTF any easier to use. They've invested enough to have a competitive advantage over other carriers. However, there is no incentive to make tracking the funds (and, hence, USING the funds) any easier.

Wait! What if WN charged $x per year to track your funds and send email alerts???

Interesting how some of the posters who have status with other airlines are claiming Southwest makes it difficult to track funds in efforts to steal customer money, when oftentimes customers are reusing amounts of $50 here, $75 there; in otherwords, money that would be completely lost on legacy carriers after the $100-$150 reissue fee is levied.

Interesting how some of the posters who have status with other airlines are claiming Southwest makes it difficult to track funds in efforts to steal customer money, when oftentimes customers are reusing amounts of $50 here, $75 there; in otherwords, money that would be completely lost on legacy carriers after the $100-$150 reissue fee is levied.

I hope that you're not referring to me. I was just pointing out that ALL airlines are a BUSINESS. None of the airlines are motivated to make it any easier to track leftover funds. AFAIK, WN is the best at letting passengers re-use funds without a penalty fee. However, there is NO business motivation for WN to make it easier to track funds (unless they could charge for it -- as I suggested in my last post).

I hope that you're not referring to me. I was just pointing out that ALL airlines are a BUSINESS. None of the airlines are motivated to make it any easier to track leftover funds. AFAIK, WN is the best at letting passengers re-use funds without a penalty fee. However, there is NO business motivation for WN to make it easier to track funds (unless they could charge for it -- as I suggested in my last post).

Exactly.

Guys, it doesn't sound like the lack of a funds tracking system as at the root of swaluvr's problem. It sounds like some sort of other technology problem - perhaps with the conversion of the system or whatever.

I keep track of my own WN funds. (I am nowhere near as frequent a WN flier as a lot of you so my tracking is pretty easy.) Overall I don't have too many usability issues with the site so I can live with having to track my own TTF's. I manually track of unused tickets on other airlines as well (even ones where there is a change fee involved) - many airline sites don't always show past/canceled itineraries seamlessly when you log in.

Interesting how some of the posters who have status with other airlines are claiming Southwest makes it difficult to track funds in efforts to steal customer money, when oftentimes customers are reusing amounts of $50 here, $75 there; in otherwords, money that would be completely lost on legacy carriers after the $100-$150 reissue fee is levied.

Relevance? :confused: What do legacy carrier change fees have to do with WN TTF tracking?

Relevance? :confused: What do legacy carrier change fees have to do with WN TTF tracking?

The point is the comparison - when one brings up that WN might benefit from making it more difficult for passengers to find their finds, I might also point out that legacy carriers don't make it any easier to find missing funds *and* they tack on a fee to exchange them. Advantage Southwest. It's unfortunate the OP is having problems with funds due to Southwest's technology issues, which are a concession on Southwest's part to move to a more common tech platform for ticketing; thank the powers that be that Southwest has chosen to attempt to make the system fit their customer-friendly policies, rather than accepting the constraints of the system, which was originally designed for carriers that generally do not allow transferability or combination of unused travel funds.

The point is the comparison - when one brings up that WN might benefit from making it more difficult for passengers to find their finds, I might also point out that legacy carriers don't make it any easier to find missing funds *and* they tack on a fee to exchange them. Advantage Southwest.

I don't think you can make a blanket statement that it's advantage one way or another.

Just this morning, I priced a one-way trip to Chicago from Kansas City. This is a route where I always consider all of AA, UA, and WN since my end destination is downtown. For me, it's a good test because it's one of the rare cases where I'm comparing WN directly against other airlines: most of my other trips are either definitely WN or definitely *A without a head-to-head comparison between the two.

Three flights departing roughly the same time from MCI: UA $81 all in, AA $121 all in, WN $141 all in. So I eliminate AA and consider the pros/cons of UA vs. WN. Even setting aside UA-specific things like upgrades and E+, is it worth $60 to buy "insurance" on my $81 ticket? Probably not.

If I held no UA status and only AA Gold status, would I pay $20 "insurance" on a $121 ticket? Perhaps yes - if I felt like I had any reasonable chance of wanting to change the segment. (If I held no status on either UA or AA, then I'm buying the $141 WN seat regardless of the change probability.)

Anyway, perhaps straying from the topic a bit, but the lack of change fees is a refreshingly different business model that I appreciate on my WN trips. But it isn't always "free" and it isn't necessarily better than taking a gamble on a lower fare with change fees. A lot depends on the individual traveler's tolerance for risk compared with the likelihood that he/she will really need to cancel/change the trip.

The point is the comparison - when one brings up that WN might benefit from making it more difficult for passengers to find their finds, I might also point out that legacy carriers don't make it any easier to find missing funds *and* they tack on a fee to exchange them. No one is disputing this. This is the WN forum, so the focus is on WN. Saying "WN is less bad" isn't much of a compliment.

pinniped has a good example and choice of word "insurance". Of course the real test is what if the prices were exactly the same?