Flying Blue (Air France & KLM) - New FB@HOME survey concerning catering [on KLM]

I received an invitation to a new survey regarding economy class catering on KLM today. The survey is handled by the new agency InSites and earns 1000 FB points.

Based on the questions, KLM is considering switching to a pay for catering concept on economy class flights within Europe. The questions concern how I as a traveler would react to that. They also want to know what product assortment I would expect in a paid for catering concept and how much I would be prepared to pay for sandwich, a salad, a sushi and a warm meal in pay for catering concept. Be careful about agreeing to pay to much as the following questions will suggest lower prices until the level is agreeable to you. KLM even wants to charge for water and wants to know whether this would influence my view on KLM as a company.

How much would you pay for a pack of Tuc biscuits?

Are they completely nuts? Will they ever learn from others? AUA tried it couple of years back and after loosing out to the LC players realised that also the little difference counts.

What is most anoying is the consideration to pay for water given the security rules on airports. Even AUA in its bad catering times gave it out for free.

I can see what they're playing at...

In the last few weeks a lot of routes have gone from sandwiches to those dreaded TUC things. People have been VERY unhappy, especially those of us who catch connecting flights within Europe.

They've clearly done that so that we will beg them them to re-introduce food - "please please no more TUC biscuits, I'll pay you ANYTHING for a decent sandwich"

There is little enough incentive to fly KLM anyway (I still use them because my home airport is NWI). I think if they start charging for food there will be no reason to fly with them any more at all. I can save money and time by using STN instead of NWI but have so far been reluctant to take the plunge because NWI is a lovely little airport and STN is such a zoo. But I think the food issue will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

If a "full service" airline starts trying to be like a LCC so much then the brand is dead.

What is currently provided costs a few cents. This is totally pathetic and I'm quite sure it will happen.

One wonders if perhaps they should be researching food in the other cabins as well ...

I took what is likely to be my last KLM flight for the foreseeable future on Sunday as I burnt my remaining FB miles in C from YYZ to NWI. I thought, after flying almost exclusively with KLM for 10 years, that I'd be a little sad, but the quality of the food and wine throughout the flight made me rather pleased that I'll shortly take my BD status match and move to Star Alliance.

The wine in the Crown Lounge at YYZ was cheap and nasty and the food predictably sparse. Having said that, the offering on the flight was worse - some utterly inedible starter, the toughest beef I've tried to eat for a long while (I gave up trying to chew my way through it in the end) and a processed, horribly bland egg-based breakfast a few hours later.

You know something's wrong when the silver bag of snacks they offer you on the NWI hop is the highlight of the trip ...

I suspect KLM are cutting back on catering generally, and the downgrade in Europe Economy is just the start of a general decrease in quality levels.

Like Avixtrix, I'll miss the ease of going through NWI as I'll have to move to LHR, but I'll console myself with the hundreds of pounds I'll save on flights to Oceania and the increased mileage earning. I'll be able to fly Premium Economy on Air New Zealand, enjoying a much better seat and business class food and wine (which I'm told is pretty good on that airline) for less money than KLM wants to reach a 100% miles earning fare. It's not bad compensation, is it?

the downward slide continues ....

It will be interesting to see if the French masters downgrade the AF brand as well.. or just ruin (further) the KLM brand? :(

Be very carefull...the survey has manipulative elements. There are questions where you have to choose even if you don't agree at all with anything you can choose.

I remember they used similar techniques in a pre-april fools survey. Many questions are asked as if it is already a fact. And then they will present it as "this is what our clienst asked for in a survey" or something along the lines....

If there is nothing of your liking in specific questions it is safest to stay neutral in such cases.

The biggest dilemma for me is presented where they ask "what you would do if KLM would introduce payed catering". I could just as well fly with an LCC, but that is not an option they provide in the survey...guess that says it all.

I received the same survey but I though it was for AF.

I agree with Zembla that sometimes you had to choose an option even if you did not like any of the alternatives, quite ridicolous.

Naturally I mentioned that having to pay for catering would mean diluting the brand and going the Low cost route, which I will try to avoid as much as posible.

Can you imagine someone not leaving in Paris, paying thousands of euros to fly in La Premiere and having to pay for a glass of water in the connecting flight? :confused:

Ok, I just wrote that OK started offering wine (Portuguese:( ) only if you pay.
Hopefully they still have a decent meal even in Y!

SU is similar but food is not so fine and drinks are not free.

AZ catering is a shame for every Italian and everybody who knows what's food!

KL has been always poor for me...

AF sometimes is so "nouvelle cuisine" to disappoint everybody who knows real French food...

If I have to pay I WOULD NOT pay 1 single penny for ALL these catering and especially KL.
I save my money for a real meal on the airport restaurants (where available) or those in the city where I am going.


But if they continue in a such way I do not know where will be the difference between them and Easyjet or Air Berlin in intra EU flights!

Ok, I just wrote that OK started offering wine (Portuguese:( ) only if you pay.
Hopefully they still have a decent meal even in Y!

SU is similar but food is not so fine and drinks are not free.

AZ catering is a shame for every Italian and everybody who knows what's food!

KL has been always poor for me...

AF sometimes is so "nouvelle cuisine" to disappoint everybody who knows real French food...

If I have to pay I WOULD NOT pay 1 single penny for ALL these catering and especially KL.
I save my money for a real meal on the airport restaurants (where available) or those in the city where I am going.


But if they continue in a such way I do not know where will be the difference between them and Easyjet or Air Berlin in intra EU flights!

Although I do agree that KL's catering is probably one of the worst in the industry, let me tell you that Portuguese wines are among the best in the world. There are, of course, good and bad ones – and OK probably chose a bad one.

Portuguese wines are among the best in the world.

Yes - especially from the Douro region. In fact KL had some wine from there a while back in C, and I enjoyed it very much. It is of course where port is produced, and I am partial to a glass or two of port after a meal. The wine from Douro is somewhat neglected because the region is mainly known for port, but that should not deter anyone from trying it. I would recommend it highly, but finding Douro wines in the UK is not always easy.

Although I do agree that KL's catering is probably one of the worst in the industry, let me tell you that Portuguese wines are among the best in the world. There are, of course, good and bad ones – and OK probably chose a bad one.

I agree with you. I do not have anything against portuguese wine but the choice made by OK and the "paying" side made me...:mad:

I'm probably in a minority here but I think that pay-for-catering on KL is a good thing. Let me rationalize this:

- I only use KL for intra-Europe short haul up-to 2hrs per sector.
- I dislike KL deeply and only started flying with them three years ago so I have no memory or nostalgia for the good olde days.
- TucTuc biscuits really piss me off. I dispise being offered that rubbish.
- What can actually be described as "food" is offered only on what KL describe as "meal time" flights. I have still to work out what these are because I think the only time I saw a sandwich was at 5.50am at LBA :confused:

If they go to pay-for-catering:

- I can get some food if I want it.
- Hopefully it will be something edible. I thought the pay for food on BA Connect (RIP) and bmi was/is actually pretty good. I don't pay for it anyway.

I have flown AMS-ATH on KL almost a dozen times the past year. Economy, lowest fare with 25% miles.

First of all: The flight is still expensive. In the summer I have been able to catch a return including taxes for 200 euro, from that point on the lowest has been 330. Quite ridiculous when CSA is at 177 euro for the same trip. So for the extra money i do expect something extra, even in economy. If that isnt offered I will choose a different airline.

The food has..surprised me. Beginning this year it used to be a basic cold meal, but not too bad. Pasta salad for example. Just enough to survive the afternoon if you get a snack in Athens.
Lately though it has gotten worse. They started serving some kind of Crepe-pancakes filled with Cheese/pear and Fish. Yes, raw fish on a flight. I, like many others, was quite disgusted with that. Its like serving Sushi...you know beforehand that 75% will thank for something like that. On the other hand...the alternative is to go hungry for those 3 hrs. Bad choice on KLMs part imho.

I have flown AMS-ATH on KL almost a dozen times the past year. Economy, lowest fare with 25% miles.

First of all: The flight is still expensive. In the summer I have been able to catch a return including taxes for 200 euro, from that point on the lowest has been 330. Quite ridiculous when CSA is at 177 euro for the same trip. So for the extra money i do expect something extra, even in economy. If that isnt offered I will choose a different airline.

Bad choice on KLMs part imho.

Actually, among all ST airlines, I believe CSA is offering the best meals to its Economy passengers. Unfortnately some drinks are now paying.

I also received the survey. Told them I wouldn't pay for airline catering on intra-Europe flights. I'll either shift more of my flights to Lufthansa (free food, and even good complimentary wine, in economy) or, if I must fly AF/KL, bring a sandwich on with me.

Actually, among all ST airlines, I believe CSA is offering the best meals to its Economy passengers. Unfortnately some drinks are now paying.

On Czech Airlines in Y there is free coffee/tea/juice. Beer is 2 EUR, Vodka is 3 EUR and Cognac is 4 EUR, soft drinks 1,5 EUR. Salty and sweet snacks for sale as well. Here you have the comp meal in Economy...

http://nykaledonien.dk/OK-Economy-Class.jpg

See the full report here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-reports/994774-czech-airlines-business-class-pics.html)

Is the survey only available for customers living in Europe? I did not receive any survey. But yeah, with the new Flying Blue program and possible paid food on board on intra-European flights, AF/KL might as well just join Ryanair and make a big LCC company. While they are at it, why don't they just ask people to pay on long-haul flights also? Either way it's a business suicide and if they want to kill themselves, I say die faster rather than lynching themselves for a long period of time. How much would I pay for anything on board? 0 cents. Once the buy on board starts, they best make sure to pay me to get on their airplanes! :td:

Actually, among all ST airlines, I believe CSA is offering the best meals to its Economy passengers. Unfortnately some drinks are now paying.

In flights scheduled =/>2h30 (such as LIS-CDG), AF offers complimentary meals, which are actually good: cold pasta (or something alike, such as couscous), bread, and a dessert (and beverages). I'll post a picture later on.

I had a short flight from AMS to STR today on KL 1877 on the F70 from KLM CityHopper UK.

I had the distinct feeling they were gently introducing the new KLM no frills scheme. Since July I must have done about 12 of these flights, leaving AMS at around 16:30 and arriving in STR at either 17:45 or at 20:00 if going via CDG. Each time the In-Flight-Meal was of the snack variety: 8 pieces of salted Tuc Crackers and one chocolate covered cookie plus something to drink...

This time however the cabin crew asked the pax whether they wanted sweet or savoury. On inquiring about the difference the crew member explained that sweet would be a chocolate cookie and savoury would be the cracker.
I declined but made my confusion known about this change because normally I was offered both. According to her, she doesn't make the rules but this is the normal procedure.

Have I been exceptionally lucky the last months to be offered both or did I just miss the memo that I'm not flying KLM CityHopper but KLM LCC now?

Can someone post the link for the questionnaire? I never received it... and the mrs could use 1000 miles ^

Have I been exceptionally lucky the last months to be offered bothPersonally, I would consider myself unlucky instead, as both are inedible in my opinion.

Johan

Personally, I would consider myself unlucky instead, as both are inedible in my opinion.

Johan

I did think about answering that paid catering was such a brilliant idea and I would probably be willing to pay, say €1.5 million for a packet of TUC but I decided that 2nd degree was probably too risky with AF and KL and they might use my figure to calculate an absurd average acceptable price! :rolleyes:

Personally, I would consider myself unlucky instead, as both are inedible in my opinion.

*grin*

I actually like TUC crackers as well as these chocolate cookies. I just think they are a bad meal/snack offering on a flight.

But say, I am still wondering. Have I been exceptionally (un)lucky or does this call for a complaint?

cheers

Can someone post the link for the questionnaire? I never received it... and the mrs could use 1000 miles ^

Sorry, they're by invitation only. The questionnaire invitation comes to you in an e-mail, with the "payment" coded to you/your account personally.

*grin*

But say, I am still wondering. Have I been exceptionally (un)lucky or does this call for a complaint?

cheers

Rather exceptionally lucky? For several months, I was almost always offered the 'sweet OR salty' option. I only got both on a few occasions when the flights were pretty empty...

Rather exceptionally lucky? For several months, I was almost always offered the 'sweet OR salty' option. I only got both on a few occasions when the flights were pretty empty...

I have only been offered a choice, but most of my flights are on quite full flights to LHR.

I have only been offered a choice, but most of my flights are on quite full flights to LHR.

Typical KL consistency.

The rule is 'sweet OR savoury' but many FAs offer both, or even two sweet or two savoury. Perhaps they remember the days when KL used to offer something better and want to avoid too many passenger complaints.

If you like both and have been offered both, you're lucky. I have to side with Johan though, although it always gives me more pleasure rejecting both than just one of the offers.

If you like both and have been offered both, you're lucky. I have to side with Johan though, although it always gives me more pleasure rejecting both than just one of the offers.

I'm usually too hungry to say no and they don't understand second degree anyway but I'm with you in spirit! ;) Wish they replaced the disgusting prince by the Dutch cookies they serve at meal time on longer flights after the semi-disgusting sandwiches...

On Czech Airlines in Y there is free coffee/tea/juice. Beer is 2 EUR, Vodka is 3 EUR and Cognac is 4 EUR, soft drinks 1,5 EUR. Salty and sweet snacks for sale as well. Here you have the comp meal in Economy...

http://nykaledonien.dk/OK-Economy-Class.jpg

See the full report here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-reports/994774-czech-airlines-business-class-pics.html)

I just did AMS-PRG-ATH on CSA in Y, it wasnt bad either.
At first I got worried with only 40 minutes transfer in PRG and we left AMS with almost 30 minutes delay due a no-show....but it turned out to be fine. Arriving in PRG we docked at the non-shengen terminal and were forced to take a bus to the Shengen area. Some more delay. But when I arrived at the Athens gate boarding was just about to start.

Food wise I got the same sandwich and a free coffee on AMS-PRG on their A320. Was fine for such a short flight (1.05h). Going onwards from PRG on an old 737 we were served two traditional triangle sandwiches. Forgot to make a pic but they were quite rich with roasted red peppers and what seemed to be Feta cheese with some actual flavour (not the german fake feta crap).

Biggest issue with this flight was that online check-in did not work. It kept coming up with an error saying that my ticket would restrict online checkin for PRG-ATH while the other AMS-PRG leg worked fine. (?!) This resulted in me checking in at AMS Schiphol and got a seat in row 15 :( I usually prefer to sit more in the front, especially with the noisy 737's.

Still, for only half the price of a KLM ticket..and only one hour more flying time...i dont complain :P

I'm just back from an adventurous trip with CSA.
The first flight was cancelled without any advice to me and then I was re-routed with LH... when I was back they didn't wait 5mn and closed the gates even if they were advised about my late arrival (connection time was 40mn but in PRG it works usually!). And, last, because of the winter changes (CRAZY changes!) I had to wait 24 hours for the return.
The good news was: I got Marriott and meals and I was in PRAGUE!
Which is better than any other hub in Europe when you have few time....

But this time I got an horrible sandwich...still better than AZ or KL but lowering at AF level!
Anyhow I will continue to fly with them whenever possible... even if LH offers in the same routes hot meal in Y class.