Flying Blue (Air France & KLM) - Tax Discrepancy between Award - Purchased ticket

Anyone else notice a discrepancy between the taxes charged between an award ticket and purchasing the ticket. My example: When I try to book the KL roundtrip between ORD and JRO, the purchased ticket shows taxes of $147. When I try to book the award ticket on the same flight - at either AF or KL - the taxes on the award ticket are $490. What gives? Am I looking at it wrong?

Anyone else notice a discrepancy between the taxes charged between an award ticket and purchasing the ticket. My example: When I try to book the KL roundtrip between ORD and JRO, the purchased ticket shows taxes of $147. When I try to book the award ticket on the same flight - at either AF or KL - the taxes on the award ticket are $490. What gives? Am I looking at it wrong?

It's cos KLM change the YQ as they see fit, there is no fixed YQ with KL. For example, when they sell cheap fares which might just be 50 cents each way they have to reduce the YQ to make the fare, say 99 EUR.

It's all a jolly big scam.

Hold on, are you saying that taxes are not static? Isnt that the point of the whole awards booking thing?

Is there any place to easily check the taxes in award tickets? I find it wayt to difficult on the KLM site. I just want to be able to enter Depart/Destination ports and maybe a date, resulting in a Taxes fee. Should be possible without actually having to go through half of the booking process?

Yes the fuel surcharge is often changed to permit whatever fare they want. I wouldn't have those this was the case on award tickets.

it is because KL does not charge YQ fuel surcharge on tickets originating USA that get issued on NW stock. however, if issued on AF stock (like flying blue awards), normal YQ applies. That's how i understand it... the fuel surcharge on NW issued ticket on KL is added to the base fare and is detailed in the surcharge section of the fare rules.

Not strictly related but just to confirm you that award taxes are a tricky game:
AZ award prizes cost in taxes between 62 and 85 Euros for a 2-way flight intra-European depending on the chosen destination.
If you look for a national flight instead taxes are approx 100 Euros!

Why? Maybe because AZ has a huge marketshare and the best slots only in Italy?:confused:

Fuel surcharges on award tickets are a black box full of IT bugs.

it is because KL does not charge YQ fuel surcharge on tickets originating USA that get issued on NW stock. however, if issued on AF stock (like flying blue awards), normal YQ applies. That's how i understand it... the fuel surcharge on NW issued ticket on KL is added to the base fare and is detailed in the surcharge section of the fare rules.

My personal experience is that YQ charges on AF tickets are higher than on paid tickets;

My personal experience is that YQ charges on AF tickets are higher than on paid tickets;

Same here, specially on complex routings.

Always check and (then book) singles when getting an award return. Often 2 singles are cheaper in taxes then when booking a return!

Also, never press the "back" button of your browser.

I think the most effective way to confirm CORRECT taxes is to book the exact same itin on the AF website and print out the tax portion and its breakdown, and offer to fax/email over to FB.

And advise FB that to justify any amount over what is published on a paid fare on the website.

I think the most effective way to confirm CORRECT taxes is to book the exact same itin on the AF website and print out the tax portion and its breakdown, and offer to fax/email over to FB.

And advise FB that to justify any amount over what is published on a paid fare on the website.

I might be stupid but I dont think that AFKL ever stated that the surcharge would be the same on award and paid tickets. I wish you good luck to ask FB to "justify" any difference. Then you will have to wait a very long time before booking your award ticket... BA has also been notorious for charging high surcharge on awards.

Not because it is not stated that is legal.

Morally it quite irritating to be advertised with possible "free(*)" tickets that are not free(*) anymore when you want them because AF/KL has decided that fuel surcharges are higher when tickets are booked with miles rather than booked with cash.

Legal is never that far from moral and a nasty lawyer could advocate this to a court IMO.

Imagine Pizza Hut loyalty program stating that every 10 pizzas you have bought, you are entitled to a "free" pizza of your choice but not only you will have to pay VAT on that free pizza, you will also have to pay for the ingredients, yes, because flour and tomato exchange rates have skyrocketted, and you will pay them twice the normal price because...

Wait, wait, wait : because of what? Why do I have to pay twice the normal price of my flour and my tomatoes when I order a "free" pizza? I have no clue. FB does.

(*) Even if AF a recently admitted that FB award tickets are not that free because of taxes and surcharges.

btw : I do not like spongy pizzas

One for the EU lawlords to get their heads around me thinks ??

Caution: I have no idea whether this is true or not, but . . . .

I asked about the discrepency between taxes/surcharges on a paid ticket and an award ticket with the identical itinerary, and was told by FB that the taxes/surcharge are calculated on an award ticket as though the ticket were a purchased full-fare ("Y") ticket, while the ticket I was comparing it to was a reduced rate ticket (not "Y").

As I say, I don't know whether that is actually the case, or if the CSR was just making it up, but that *is* what I was told.

Caution: I have no idea whether this is true or not, but . . . .

I asked about the discrepency between taxes/surcharges on a paid ticket and an award ticket with the identical itinerary, and was told by FB that the taxes/surcharge are calculated on an award ticket as though the ticket were a purchased full-fare ("Y") ticket, while the ticket I was comparing it to was a reduced rate ticket (not "Y").

As I say, I don't know whether that is actually the case, or if the CSR was just making it up, but that *is* what I was told.

But surely the 'Tax/es' bit should at least stay the same ? I'm not aware that a government request higher taxes on full fare as apposed to a discounted ticket ? This has to be the biggest scam that the airlines enjoy IMHO....perhaps there is an auditor out there who could confirm/deny what the situation is ?

Caution: I have no idea whether this is true or not, but . . . .

I asked about the discrepency between taxes/surcharges on a paid ticket and an award ticket with the identical itinerary, and was told by FB that the taxes/surcharge are calculated on an award ticket as though the ticket were a purchased full-fare ("Y") ticket, while the ticket I was comparing it to was a reduced rate ticket (not "Y").

As I say, I don't know whether that is actually the case, or if the CSR was just making it up, but that *is* what I was told.

Fiuel surcharge is NOT a function of fare basis, it is function of DISTANCE, so it should not fluctuate whether an award or paid (in ANY fare class) ticket.

Fiuel surcharge is NOT a function of fare basis, it is function of DISTANCE, so it should not fluctuate whether an award or paid (in ANY fare class) ticket.

The whole current 'system' with fuel surcharging is a total scam - at some point these 'surcharges' must be incorporated into the base fares.

You are entirely correct in the above - that's how fuel surcharging started out back when it was an actual surcharge, in lieu of unexpected fuel cost. Although it is common practice to 'discount surcharges' for the purpose of being able to offer a lower total amount. Which in my opinion defeats the whole purpose of surcharging and is yet another argument in the pile of justifications why this is a scam.

A random example is LHR-AMS-LHR - lowest fare on offer today is VSTALHR which has the attractive net fare of GBP8. KLM charges fuel surcharges as an YR tax - which on this fare is GBP20 for this return fare. Two steps higher in the fare hierarchy is the TTME1GB fare - net fare GBP91. With a fuel surcharge of GBP40...

It is blatantly obvious why this takes place - but it is a total rip-off. The above is just another example - and one of many actual examples out there.

Anybody already went to court with this. Nellie Kroes should have a go at the airlines.

This is the start of much confusion, and also the multiple, say, flexible use of pricing. Please please please let us not get fooled by them continuing to call those things ´tax´, which the EU of course has declared illegal.
Fuel surcharge is no tax, so airlines can, and do, do what they wish with it. Taxes, airport charges etc are the same whether revenue or award ticket (the airline could, of course, if they wished, wave those, as they used to do with *free* award tickets). But, as others have said, fuel surcharge, so called, is just a way to have higher or lower total fares, as they see fit.
Typically, KLM reduces fuel surcharges for special offers etc. But FB does not in those occasions. And that is where most of the differences come from. Fairly simple, but utterly annoying, and in extreme cases of course an award can be more, or (almost) as expensive, as a revenue ticket.
FB and AFKL really need to sort this out: at least, at least, offer the same lower surcharges on awards when those lower charges are available on revenue tickets.
But finally we need fully inclusive fares: I have said before, and say again: why not a uniform surcharge, plastic cup surcharge, salary increase surcharge,....?

But finally we need fully inclusive fares: I have said before, and say again: why not a uniform surcharge, plastic cup surcharge, salary increase surcharge,....?

Without advocating AF/KL or any other airline with fuel surcharges, their answer to that question is : because fuel expenses (used to) vary a lot from a month to another, hence are like variable costs, whereas uniform expenses are fixed costs.

Not sure if any of you noticed but AF also charge different amounts for "taxes" on paid tickets for the exact same itinerary and service class. I brought this up on the phone last week with an AF agent. She was as surprised as I was so she checked with her supervisor, who confirmed that "to make the lowest priced tickets more attractive, AF lowers the YQ tax [sic] on the lowest booking classes".

But I agree. This is ALL over the place and totally misleading for the consumer. Anybody willing to start a petition we can all sign and send to the European Commission?

Without advocating AF/KL or any other airline with fuel surcharges, their answer to that question is : because fuel expenses (used to) vary a lot from a month to another, hence are like variable costs, whereas uniform expenses are fixed costs.

The issue is not about the fluctuation of fuel surcharges, but rather the lack of uniformity about how fuel surcharges are levied across paid vs. award tickets.

The most TRANSPARENT means of solving this issue, is for the airline to submit its fuel hedging costs for a given month or quarter and then assign a FIXED fuel surcharge for each different flight distance- short, medium and long haul.

That way, we could be assured that:
a. award and paid tickets are being charged the same
b. the fuel surcharge is reflective of current costs; no gouging

That said, the fact that fuel surcharges are part of European programs in general, is a very disappointing feature. It should at least be waived for Plats, as a benefit!!

Without advocating AF/KL or any other airline with fuel surcharges, their answer to that question is : because fuel expenses (used to) vary a lot from a month to another, hence are like variable costs, whereas uniform expenses are fixed costs.

yes and no. I am not a business person, but I thought that for serious companies fuel hedging is first and foremost about controlling cost. When last year AF made a killing with what then looked like good hedging, nobody cried, but no they do. They do need to see this over a cycle, and then assess if it was good or bad.
But in any case, once again, a long-term agreement with suppliers is about controlling cost, and so is fuel hedging. So, the uniforms are as controllable an expense as is oil (within limits, fair enough).