Midwest Airlines Midwest Miles - YX to increase LAX service

According to schedule changes submitted to OAG this past week, Midwest will be increasing frequency on the MKE/MCI-LAX routes.

By next March, MKE-LAX will be flown up to 3x daily and MCI-LAX appears as if it will be flown up to 2x daily.

Based on what I can see on midwestairlines.com, some of these frequency additions appear to operate less than daily. As things stand now, Midwest will have two evening departures from MKE to LAX, with one leaving around 7:30 pm and the other departing just after 10:00 pm. Without doing too much digging, that late night LAX flight seems rather odd considering that there is a flight only 2.5 hours earlier. Of course, these schedule changes are nearly six months out and may change as more pieces of the expanded flight schedule are put into place.

I'm somewhat surprised to see MKE-LAX get the extra flight given the competition and historical low yields. However, Bryan Bedford has been quoted as saying LAX was one of Midwest's best markets and that more frequency would be added on many MKE routes in the coming months to make the flight schedules even more attractive to the local flying public and to facilitate additional connection opportunities.

There is probably an added benefit of putting more pressure on AirTran and its MKE operations as well.

According to schedule changes submitted to OAG this past week, Midwest will be increasing frequency on the MKE/MCI-LAX routes.

By next March, MKE-LAX will be flown up to 3x daily and MCI-LAX appears as if it will be flown up to 2x daily.

Based on what I can see on midwestairlines.com, some of these frequency additions appear to operate less than daily. As things stand now, Midwest will have two evening departures from MKE to LAX, with one leaving around 7:30 pm and the other departing just after 10:00 pm. Without doing too much digging, that late night LAX flight seems rather odd considering that there is a flight only 2.5 hours earlier. Of course, these schedule changes are nearly six months out and may change as more pieces of the expanded flight schedule are put into place.

I'm somewhat surprised to see MKE-LAX get the extra flight given the competition and historical low yields. However, Bryan Bedford has been quoted as saying LAX was one of Midwest's best markets and that more frequency would be added on many MKE routes in the coming months to make the flight schedules even more attractive to the local flying public and to facilitate additional connection opportunities.

There is probably an added benefit of putting more pressure on AirTran and its MKE operations as well.

It does seem a little odd that they would add a flight so close to the existing evening departure...of course, this could change later as the schedule shakes out. I suppose if it's a late-night flight to LAX and a red-eye back, it is a way to add another trip out there without any extra aircraft utilization, since it will be back in time for the morning bank.

This probably explains why AirTran dropped the price on its MKE-LAX route over the weekend to $89 each way. If indeed this is the case and we get to the point where certain days have a total of 5x service MKE-LAX on mainline 737 and A319 aircraft, something is going to have to give. I think both carriers will battle it out to the bitter end on this route though.

It does seem a little odd that they would add a flight so close to the existing evening departure...of course, this could change later as the schedule shakes out. I suppose if it's a late-night flight to LAX and a red-eye back, it is a way to add another trip out there without any extra aircraft utilization, since it will be back in time for the morning bank.

This probably explains why AirTran dropped the price on its MKE-LAX route over the weekend to $89 each way. If indeed this is the case and we get to the point where certain days have a total of 5x service MKE-LAX on mainline 737 and A319 aircraft, something is going to have to give. I think both carriers will battle it out to the bitter end on this route though.

The 3rd MKE-LAX flight arrives in Los Angeles at 12:35 am. It appears as if the Airbus will head back to Denver the following morning. However, it looks like Frontier has a morning DEN-LAX flight that heads to MKE at 10:00 am PDT. Then there's another LAX-MKE departure at 11:30 am PDT. I suspect this will not be the final schedule.

I agree that something will have to give. Bryan Bedford has been very clear lately that they plan on restoring/adding routes in MKE and increasing frequency on many others in order to have a huge advantage in terms of flight schedules for not only the local market but for connecting passengers as well.

12:35am arrival? That is a horrible time. That market is not big enough for all those flights. That third flight will be dropped quickly

I'd reserve judement a little bit on the LAX expansion for the moment. The guy on airliners.net who posts the weekly OAG data generally just posts raw changes he sees without any investigation. There are more than a few instances where things have shown up strangely...things appear and disappear from one week to the next or vice versa...and that's especially true where two airlines (think NW / DL) are working together and swapping some flights back and forth between the two. IND-LGA jumps one week from 4x to 8x because new DL* flights are loaded, but then the four NW* flights disappear the next week because in fact it was just a handoff of IND-LGA from NW* to DL* with no net change. That could be what we're seeing on MKE-LAX.

On the other hand, those reports on a.net don't mention flight times. So what we see today on midwestairlines.com might not reflect at all the increases he sees in the OAG tapes. There's no sign on midwestairlines.com of expanded MCI-LAX yet, for example. So perhaps the actual flight frequency increases he reports are accurate, but the times could be totally different than what we see. It does seem almost incomprehensible for there to be two eastbound red-eyes leaving at 11:30pm, one E190 and one A319. If I had to guess, we might[/I] just be seeing the A319 red-eye replaced in the schedule with an E190 red-eye, which leaves MKE at about 7:30pm instead of 10:20pm like the A319 trip does. But it is certainly possible that in fact there is going to be a 3rd MKE-LAX nonstop. We'll probably find that out in the next several days.

12:35am arrival? That is a horrible time. That market is not big enough for all those flights. That third flight will be dropped quickly

I bet you're loving all this, though, Tim. You have always called for stepped up competition from MKE to the west coast in particular.

On the other hand, those reports on a.net don't mention flight times. So what we see today on midwestairlines.com might not reflect at all the increases he sees in the OAG tapes. There's no sign on midwestairlines.com of expanded MCI-LAX yet, for example. So perhaps the actual flight frequency increases he reports are accurate, but the times could be totally different than what we see. It does seem almost incomprehensible for there to be two eastbound red-eyes leaving at 11:30pm, one E190 and one A319. If I had to guess, we might[/I] just be seeing the A319 red-eye replaced in the schedule with an E190 red-eye, which leaves MKE at about 7:30pm instead of 10:20pm like the A319 trip does. But it is certainly possible that in fact there is going to be a 3rd MKE-LAX nonstop. We'll probably find that out in the next several days.

I hear what you're saying, but on the flip-side that third flight is clearly available for booking today. If it was as simple as swapping an Airbus for an E190 why add a third flight to the booking engine if there aren't plans for it to exist in the first place. Maybe I'm missing something here

While the final flight schedules will almost certainly change between now and next spring, I'd be somewhat surprised if Midwest didn't add a third flight. I'm still intrigued by Bedford's comment a few months ago that LAX was one of Midwest's best markets. Of course, that can mean a number of different things. Besides the increased demand for Los Angeles service during the spring and summer, I do wonder if the possible addition of a third flight is designed in part to put added pressure on AirTran. Any thoughts on this?

I bet you're loving all this, though, Tim. You have always called for stepped up competition from MKE to the west coast in particular.

More flights yes but Airlines should be smart about it. If the LAX flight was in the mid day okay but another night flight is not a good idea.

On an unrelated note does anyone think southwest will start seasonal service from MKE-OAK during the summer?

MKE-LAX now shows 1x/day...the 7:00am Airbus 319...except for these periods when a 2nd MKE-LAX flight is added:

11-19 through 11-30 A319 at 10:10pm

12-17 through 1-4 A319 at 10:10pm

2-11 and onward, E190 at 7:35pm

The 10:10pm MKE-LAX A319 flight no longer appears beyond 1/4/09.


I don't see anything to explain why the person on airliners.net showed an increase in MCI-LAX. But perhaps there's still something else coming.

MKE-LAX now shows 1x/day...the 7:00am Airbus 319...except for these periods when a 2nd MKE-LAX flight is added:

11-19 through 11-30 A319 at 10:10pm

12-17 through 1-4 A319 at 10:10pm

2-11 and onward, E190 at 7:35pm

The 10:10pm MKE-LAX A319 flight no longer appears beyond 1/4/09.


I don't see anything to explain why the person on airliners.net showed an increase in MCI-LAX. But perhaps there's still something else coming.

With the exception of the third MKE-LAX flight that showed-up over the weekend, I believe the schedule you posted above has been published for several weeks now.

I still don't get why that third flight was actually available for booking if it was a simple aircraft swap. No use in beating a dead horse I guess.

The lesson here appears to be that posting the raw OAG changes is a bit premature. However, with the exception of MCI-LAX the changes filed with OAG (and mentioned on airliners.et) did show-up in the various booking engines.

OAG Flights displays the following MKE-LAX nonstops during June 2010:

YX 751....Dep 7:00AM...Arr 9:19AM...A319...Valid 11/11/2009-10/07/2010
YX 1991...Dep 7:35PM...Arr 9:49PM...E190...Valid 02/11/2010-10/07/2010
YX 753...Dep 10:10PM..Arr 12:35AM..A319...Valid 12/26/2009-10/07/2010

YX's site does not display the same flight offerings for the same date.

I find all of this conversation about added Midwest flights to/from MKE and LAX different than what I have just experienced. We had flights booked from GRR to LAX connecting in MKE - 11/27 and 11/28, and a return flight on 12/6.

First, both flights from MKE were cancelled (11/27 & 28) and replaced with Frontier. OK - we could still get there, so that was fine. Then, Midwest cancelled our flight from GRR to MKE on 11/27. (Right now, the 11/28 flight is still on, but I am worried). Well, I'm not going to walk to MKE from Michigan! As soon as we got that resolved, they cancelled our return flight from LAX on 12/6! We are returning from a cruise, so couldn't accept their offer of a morning return that day. Fortunately, we were able to get a refund and book a one-way return with NW for the same price.

I am a frequent flyer and have never experienced so much grief. All of this has made me wonder about Midwest's stability, and has certainly made me question reserving any future flights with them.

I am a frequent flyer and have never experienced so much grief. All of this has made me wonder about Midwest's stability, and has certainly made me question reserving any future flights with them.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, IrisT.

Midwest has tinkered with the LAX flight schedule a lot in recent months. Besides the aircraft swaps, the real issue seems to be with the evening MKE departure with the red-eye return. First, Midwest made a big-deal about the addition of the second flight being added. Then, it vanishes. Suddenly, it reappeared but only on certain days of the week. Now the second flight appears to run during peak travel periods and returns indefinately begiing in mid-February.

Obviously, Midwest is going through a great deal of transition at the moment but some of these schedule changes/tweaks are becoming frustrating.

OAG Flights displays the following MKE-LAX nonstops during June 2010:

YX 751....Dep 7:00AM...Arr 9:19AM...A319...Valid 11/11/2009-10/07/2010
YX 1991...Dep 7:35PM...Arr 9:49PM...E190...Valid 02/11/2010-10/07/2010
YX 753...Dep 10:10PM..Arr 12:35AM..A319...Valid 12/26/2009-10/07/2010

YX's site does not display the same flight offerings for the same date.

Thanks for posting this, mke9499.

Up until sometime yesterday afternoon, flight 753 was shown on the YX site and available for booking.

When the second MKE-LAX nonstop was announced, the existing morning nonstop MKE-LAX flight was a 99-seat E190 which regularly went out with 90+ passengers. So adding another 99-seat E190 in the evening (about 7:35pm) captured some of the spill from the morning flight, served a decent but lesser local demand in the evening, and allowed connections from the early evening bank from places like Madison and Flint. The evening demand is less than the morning , but not insignificant.

That was before the A319 entered the picture. The A319 / E190 swap changed the MKE-LAX picture significantly.

(a) The morning flight, usually the most popular, gains an extra 38 seats by the switch to the 319. The added capacity means less spill from the more desirable early morning flight.

(b) The red-eye also gains an extra 38 seats because it changed to 319 – no E190 available to fly it this fall.

(c) The 319 schedule at MKE meant that the earliest the westbound flight could depart is 10:10pm, not 7:35pm.. That’s far less attractive for local passengers, and doesn’t serve connecting traffic from feeder markets .

So the evening flight today is at a decent time, serving local and connecting traffic, taking some of the spill from the full morning flight, flown with a 99-seat aircraft. Starting in November, it’s very late (arriving LAX after midnight), must live on nearly all local traffic, with little spill from the morning nonstop flight, and has 38 more seats to fill. Outside of the holiday periods when it will do just fine, if they ran that 10:10pm MKE-LAX Airbus daily it would probably be well under 50% most of the time.

So that addresses why they added but are now chosing to curtail the second MKE-LAX flight this winter. But why the inconsistancy in what shows up? I certainly don't know all the answers, but the nature of the GDS systems is that things are not all updated at the same time...OAG, Orbitz, Travelocity, the airline website, etc. Updates to the third parties are not instant. When the A319's came into the YX schedule they appeared on Travelocity before they appeared on any other site including midwestairlines.com. These LAX schedule changes involved two different airlines submitting data separately, so the chance for an uncoordinated change is significant. And if one missed a deadline for a particular delivery channel or had an error in their update, things could be even more inconsistant. Then throw in the haste and short time frame to get new schedules out there...every day of delay meant missing bookings...and I can't say I'm surprised that oddities and revisions like this are showing up. Oh, and finally throw in people like us who pound away at the various websites looking for updates and uncovering these issues which most wouldn't notice.

They need to work to avoid these situations...one more thing where we're waiting for the dust to settle. Schedule changes happen, but when incorrect information is shown and is available for sale, there's always the risk that some people will book based on that information and later have to change.

Today, OAG Flights displays two MKE-LAX nonstops, dropping the 10:10 PM on the outbound and showing only a mid-morning and redeye on the return.

The daytime flights are on the A319, the evening/redeye are on E190.

Talk about a state of flux!

Oh, and finally throw in people like us who pound away at the various websites looking for updates and uncovering these issues which most wouldn't notice.



LOL...so true.

Not only would most people not notice, they probably woudn't care, either. In fact, they'd probably think we're all crazy for discussing/debating scheduling issues like this!

LOL...so true.

Not only would most people not notice, they could probably woudn't care, either. In fact, they'd probably think we're all crazy for discussing/debating scheduling issues like this!

+1

Duplicate post.