oneworld - xONE5, ticketing carrier (YQ surcharges) and backtracking

Hi, I'm helping a friend booking a LONE5 ticket.

This is his itinerary:
LHR-SFO-LAX-SCL-IPC-SCL-USH-EZE-MIA-LAX-AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT-LHR

1) Is it possible to go from EZE to AKL backtracking in the USA? OW Rules seems to permit this, but the online booking tool doesn't. (is it a known bug?)

2) The ticketing carrier will be BA or AA (I presume). Is it cheaper (no fuel surcharges) booking the ticket with AA? Do the first flight need to be on AA?

As always, thanks for your time.

Nicola

1) Once you depart South America (-EZE-MIA-) you can't "go back".
(There are transit/transfer without stopover exceptions for North America and Asia, but none for South America)

2) BA may often be cheaper, but check both. AA can sometimes cost more, especially if you have AA transcontinental flights.

The itinerary as written is only valid if one of the trips through North America is a transit of less than 24 hours. You can't, in general, enter a continent twice - the "once more if in transit to/from South America" is an allowed exception.

Hi, I'm helping a friend booking a LONE5 ticket.

This is his itinerary:
LHR-SFO-LAX-SCL-IPC-SCL-USH-EZE-MIA-LAX-AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT-LHR

1) Is it possible to go from EZE to AKL backtracking in the USA? OW Rules seems to permit this, but the online booking tool doesn't. (is it a known bug?)

2) The ticketing carrier will be BA or AA (I presume). Is it cheaper (no fuel surcharges) booking the ticket with AA? Do the first flight need to be on AA?

As always, thanks for your time.

Nicola

1) I suspect the online booking tool cannot handle the two visits to Nth Am - because neither of them is a straight transfer from one continent to another via Nth Am (each has an intra- US flight segment). As long as one of them entails <24hrs in Nth Am then it would appear to be legal - just that the tool cannot handle it. Perhaps booking through the AA RTW desk or agent can achieve it

However, you could tweak the Sth Am part of the itinerary to make legal, for example:

LHR-SFO-LAX-mia-eze-ush-scl-ipc-scl-xLAX-AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT-LHR

of course on that itinerary, you could just fly SCL-AKL on LA and cut out the 2nd visit to Nth Am.

2) Use the on-line tool to find out the difference in YQ. Make the first flight an AA flight and get the price (which will show the YQ). And then change the first flight to be a BA flight and see the difference. (This assumes that both carriers fly LHR-SFO; not sure if that is the case)

Using the online tool, the marketing carrier of the first flight does the ticketing.
Using the AA RTW desk, AA does the ticketing.
Using an agent, in theory it can be any carrier, but IIRC agents generally use the first (marketing) carrier.

Certainly for me last year - buying a LONE4 from AA rather than QF saved me ~A$1,000 in YQ. Don't think the difference is that great nowadays

Hi, I'm helping a friend booking a LONE5 ticket.

This is his itinerary:
LHR-SFO-LAX-SCL-IPC-SCL-USH-EZE-MIA-LAX-AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT-LHR

1) Is it possible to go from EZE to AKL backtracking in the USA? OW Rules seems to permit this, but the online booking tool doesn't. (is it a known bug?)

2) The ticketing carrier will be BA or AA (I presume). Is it cheaper (no fuel surcharges) booking the ticket with AA? Do the first flight need to be on AA?

As always, thanks for your time.

Nicola

The itinerary as written is only valid if one of the trips through North America is a transit of less than 24 hours. You can't, in general, enter a continent twice - the "once more if in transit to/from South America" is an allowed exception.Moreover you can only transit one location on the second "free" pass through N. America en route to the SW Pacific.

Since AKL is only served from LAX (within North America) the South American portion of the itinerary would have to end at a location with direct flight access to LAX, which at the moment is limited to SCL and LIM.

The itinerary has enough available segments to include a zigzag through the SWP - ...EZE-SYD-AKL-SYD-BKK... using the Qantas EZE-SYD service; or enough N. American segments that you could go ... LHR-SFO-LAX-DFW-SCL-IPC-SCL-USH-SCL-xLAX-AKL...

Or, of course, if space is available, the nonstop LAN flight SCL-AKL is still an option. That would free up a couple of segments elsewhere that could be used.

Moreover you can only transit one location on the second "free" pass through N. America en route to the SW Pacific.Source? I seem to recall others claiming to have done two sector transits.

Source? I seem to recall others claiming to have done two sector transits.I think there's a big (anecdotal) YMMV on this one.

... the "once more if in transit to/from South America" is an allowed exception.I cannot locate such an exception for South America in the xONEx rules (http://www.oneworld.com/content/library/oneworld_explorer_rule_sheet.pdf).

I cannot locate such an exception for South America in the xONEx rules (http://www.oneworld.com/content/library/oneworld_explorer_rule_sheet.pdf).

There isn't

This is the relevant part of the rule sheet:
4(e) Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except as follows:
1. Two permitted in North America when one is a transfer without stopover.
...

When you think about it, this exception can only take effect when one of the continents involved is Sth Am.

But yes, your point serfty is that you cannot enter Sth Am twice - for example from SWP going onward to Nth Am and then returning to Sth Am and travelling onward to Europe

Source? I seem to recall others claiming to have done two sector transits.IIRC this was put through the Talmudic parsing at the same time the "second Asia entry" stramash was argued (interminably IMO) a couple of years ago.

I tried to get one such 2-shot transfer OKd in I think 2007; my recollection was that the AA RTW desk (i.e. Dublin) put the emphasis on the "a" in "..Two permitted in North America when one is a transfer without stopover..." I believe similar attempts at such routings as e.g. LAX-HKG-SIN-SYD-AKL-xHKG-xSIN-LHR... failed. "A" and "transfer" are in the singular case.

Could be wrong, of course. Happens. But I don't recall a two-segment transit in a NA-SA-xNA... itinerary ever having been allowed.

In addition to the LAX transfer point to AKL (and others) you could also use JFK as a transfer point to SYD (as a direct flight). Don't have the OW scheduling tool at hand - but that should offer a couple of more alternatives.

Fred

IIRC this was put through the Talmudic parsing at the same time the "second Asia entry" stramash was argued (interminably IMO) a couple of years ago.

I tried to get one such 2-shot transfer OKd in I think 2007; my recollection was that the AA RTW desk (i.e. Dublin) put the emphasis on the "a" in "..Two permitted in North America when one is a transfer without stopover..." I believe similar attempts at such routings as e.g. LAX-HKG-SIN-SYD-AKL-xHKG-xSIN-LHR... failed. "A" and "transfer" are in the singular case.

Could be wrong, of course. Happens. But I don't recall a two-segment transit in a NA-SA-xNA... itinerary ever having been allowed.
From memory it has gone both ways and appears to be at the whim of the person doing the booking. Here is one of the discussions:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/772400-done4-transit-asia-2-stops-allowed.html

Has anyone used the booking tool to get a 2 segment transfer?

2) BA may often be cheaper, but check both. AA can sometimes cost more, especially if you have AA transcontinental flights.
While everyone is arguing the finer points of continents with 2 entries (which frankly make my brain short circuit) I was a bit taken aback by this observation. In my experience BA has always been a very expensive issuer and AA much cheaper. I was led to believe (or deluded myself) that it is because BA always charges other airlines' fuel fines but AA does not. Is this not an immutable rule? (There are so few in this game, sigh.)

While everyone is arguing the finer points of continents with 2 entries (which frankly make my brain short circuit) I was a bit taken aback by this observation. In my experience BA has always been a very expensive issuer and AA much cheaper. I was led to believe (or deluded myself) that it is because BA always charges other airlines' fuel fines but AA does not. Is this not an immutable rule? (There are so few in this game, sigh.)

Last time (April) I checked a DONE4 plaited on BA/QF/AA both QF and BA were about A$1000 more expensive than AA.

To Qualify my post - I am currently looking at ex NZ LONE4's. With this I have been using the on line booking tool for 'estimates'.

With AA as the marketing carrier of the first segment, several itineraries have been more expensive than with Qantas.

All of these itineraries include AA transatlantic and they will do a fuel fine on these flights. (I'mhope to employ eVIPs)

I am not saying it will always be the case; far from it - it probably rare. Hoewver, it should not hurt to check first.

(I'mhope to employ eVIPs)

So have you added AA status to your list? Congratulations.

Well, you guys simply rock!
My friend was able to get his itinerary validated transiting in JFK (using JFK as the single transit in N.Am. between S.Am and Australia)

Me and him are very thankfull for you all.

PS: For the record, it's 1800 vs 2360 Euro with the LHR-SFO segment on AA vs BA. Not too bad :)

So have you added AA status to your list? Congratulations.No AA status; I'm being gifted said eVips ... :D

No AA status; I'm being gifted said eVips ... :D

Well, still a reason to congratulate you!

PS: For the record, it's 1800 vs 2360 Euro with the LHR-SFO segment on AA vs BA. Not too bad :)

Certainly for me last year - buying a LONE4 from AA rather than QF saved me ~A$1,000 in YQ. Don't think the difference is that great nowadays

2360€ - 1800€ = 560€ ~= AUD930. So the savings are still significant:D