Other North & South America Frequent Flyer Programs - Avianca-TACA's merger - new landscape in Latin America

Avianca and TACA merged yesterday in AIRFRANCE-KLM style (both brands will be retained, but a new holding has been created merging the two airlines, which will be run under joint strategic management), to create the largest Latin American airline in terms of number of destinations (100), passengers (15.4 mil) and fleet size (129 aircraft), and joint first with LAN in terms of revenue. The airline will keep its current 4 hubs (BOG, LIM, SAL and SJO) for the time being.

Avianca has also recently overtaken the management of its Brazilian subsidiary (within the Synergy Group) OceanAir. The Synergy Group also owns small Ecuadorian carrier VIP, and there have been talks for several months now of it acquiring an 80% stake in Ecuadorian airline Aerogal (an MoU in this direction was already signed a couple of months back). No further steps have been taken toward the acquisition since then though (or so it seems).

CONTEXT: COPA's subsidiary Aerorépublica/P5 (in practice fully integrated into COPA and in OnePass) is leaving SkyTeam together with Continental on 24th Oct. Most likely, CM and P5 will follow CO in joining Star Alliance. There have always been doubts about CM and TA co-existing in Star Alliance as they are direct competitors in Central and South America. Now, it seems to me impossible that AV-TA and CM-P5 could co-exist in any alliance, as AV is the flagship carrier of Colombia and P5 is the 2nd largest carrier in the country (and, IMHO, by far the best).

It will be interesting to see what happens. I realise that any theory at the present time would be mere speculation... I do hope however that AV-TA will join SkyTeam, which will be missing Central and South American coverage once CM has left.

Of course, AV-TA will have to work on a joint frequent flyer programme to begin with... Hopefully more along the lines of CO/CM's OnePass or TA's Distancia, rather than the appalling Avianca Plus.

Any news, comments or information on the above would be much appreciated.

It would also be interesting to know what's happening with VIP and Aerogal in Ecuador.

AND how Varig/GOL moves towards SkyTeam membership. If it does eventually join SkyTeam, and OceanAir becomes integral part of AV-TA, would these two Brazilian carriers (Varig/GOL and OceanAir within AV) then be able to co-exist in the same alliance?

:confused:

Yeah I got the e-mail. I fly Taca about 2-3 times a year. Not bad service, their programs point is kind of a pain to deal with, hence why I'm sticking with LAN for now for South America travel.

Avianca just recently started a code share agreement with Delta, so I can see the whole Pro- Sky Team move.

Still no news/confirmation of COPA (CM+P5) joining Star Alliance...

This is an interesting merger to me. I don't really understand Taca's hubs and how they operate. I've flown Avianca for years and think they have a great in flight product... hopefully they will do as they say and take the best of the two and implement them (starting with a FF program). Any ideas how the hubs will work with BOG, SJO, SAL, and LIM?

I agree that AV’s in-flight product (especially on the medium- and long-haul) is not bad at all. Same applies to TA’s. Unfortunately, AV doesn’t really shine when it comes to punctuality, and their customer service (both on the phone and at the airport) is useless.

LIM is TA’s main hub for access to South America, and SAL is their main hub for access to North America. Because they operate aircraft of the Airbus 320 family, they cannot fly direct, say, from LIM to YYZ, and fly through SAL instead.

AV will bring wide-body aircraft into the alliance, which will offer new opportunities for TA as well, for instance in terms of new routes that can be operated, mainly out of LIM, a hub with great potential.

BOG also has great potential. Bogota is a metropolis with over 8 MIL inhabitants, a business centre within the Americas, and could work as a hub, if it wasn’t that the airport is congested (as is SJO), old and plain horrible. They are renovating it now, the cargo area has just been finalised… But I doubt we’ll get to see the new passengers terminals any time before the end of 2012 (I hope they prove me wrong!)

The main difference between the two Central American hubs is that SAL is the gateway to North America, whereas SJO is more of a Central-South America hub. They manage to keep both of them for the time being thanks to all the feeder flights TA has: both international and national/regional ones. The latter are the main reason for the strength of the TA brand in Central America; they have regional subsidiaries (TACA Regional) in almost all Central American countries.

So the four hubs will stay for the time being…

Also, the purchase of 2K (Ecuadorian Aerogal) by AV is still work in progress. The deal should be closed by year end. Initially 2K will keep operating as a separate brand.

On the other hand, it is confirmed that both OceanAir (Brazil) and VIP S.A. (Ecuador) -both of which already use the AV livery and are already owned by the Synergy Group which owns AV- will change their names to Avianca over the next few months.

There's no doubt that BOG will remain a hub. I can't imagine 4 hubs though. I am sure SJO or SAL will be reduced to a focus city.

I really hope this merger comes with some improved schedules. I fly mainly MIA to LIM and would like to take AV more but there are 2 options... leave MIA in the morning and have a 3hr 40min layover in BOG or leave in the afternoon with 1hr 45min layover but arrive to LIM at nearly 1:00 AM. Usually what I do is fly MIA-CTG with a stopover and then CTG-LIM, and inbound LIM-MIA/FLL... it's only a few dollars more for the stopover.

I can't find the link but I read that AV says they are not going after LAN or Copa with this merger but rather to compete more with North American and European airlines. I do hope to see more domestic flights in Peru even though LA will be kicking and screaming.

I also hope AV maintains its daily FLL flight.

And, to add to my wish list, I hope they streamline their elite upgrade process like TA... I see so many J seats on AV go out empty.

And, to add to my wish list, I hope they streamline their elite upgrade process like TA... I see so many J seats on AV go out empty.

I fully agree on that one... Let's hope they get cracking on those FFPs ASAP. Being a member of both AV and TA FFPs, I have no idea what will happen...

Anyone remember what happened after the AF-KL merger with those people who were members of both Fréquence Plus and Flying Dutchman? Were miles from both accounts merged into the same Flying Blue account? How about Elite-Qualifying miles?!

The Executive Board of the new Avianca-TACA holding seem to have agreed, in principle, on the basic expansion plans for the short- to mid-term. The four hubs are here to stay for the time being and all four will in fact be strengthened starting at the beginning of 2010. The new routes would include:

From SAL:
- Direct flights to BOG
- Direct flight to LIM
- Direct flights to the US West Coast (connecting with LIM-SAL-LIM flights)
- Direct flights to MAD on A330 (connecting with LIM-SAL-LIM flights)

From SJO:
- Direct flights to the US East Coast
- Direct flights to the Caribbean
- Better connections to Colombia (better schedules to BOG, new direct flights to MDE, CLO and CTG)
- Better connections to LIM

From BOG:
- Andean countries (Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, etc.)
- Caribbean
- US East Coast
- Europe
- Enhanced connections to LIM

From LIM:
- Direct to South America
- Direct to US East Coast (TA-coded flights using 767 or possibly the new A330)
- Central American through SJO and SAL
- US West Coast and Europe connecting through SAL and BOG
- Possibly a direct LIM-MAD flight.

Flights linking BOG and LIM: 4-5 daily in each direction;
Flights linking BOG and SJO: 2 daily in each direction;
Flights linking BOG and SAL: 1-2 daily in each direction.

Do you think that this merger will affect DL or UA? UA is a TA partner while DL is with AV. Maybe they both can remain partners in the new program? It seems to work well for AS which has agreements with both AA and DL.

That's a good question and I wish I had the source but unfortunately I have read a dozen online articles about this topic and can't remember where I read it, but they believe they can maintain separate agreements with airlines in different alliances, and they are not looking to join an alliance as of now because they have the flexibility to work with any airline. The merger of these two airlines will include agreements with airlines in all 3 alliances (IB, MX, UA, AC, and DL).

It really seems like they are going after AA and LA with this merger. IF BOG is a USA hub and there are 5-6 dailies of BOG-LIM-BOG??? Wow!

Here’s the link to an interview with AV’s top executive stating that they are not looking to join any alliance and would rather stick to bilateral agreements (code-share, reciprocal mileage accrual and redemption, etc.):

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/09/22/332565/interview-avianca-chief-executive-fabio-villegas.html
(They refer to alliance membership at the end of the “Out with the Old” section).

I think that, first of all, IB’s OW partners (mainly LAN and AA) may no longer be very happy with IB continuing its code-share agreement with AV/TA.

Second, AV wouldn’t have been let into any of the 3 alliances so far anyway! Their website, customer service, punctuality records, FFP (and I’ll stop there) are far from being in line with the standards of world alliances. So Villegas says they’re not interested in joining an alliance, but truth is, no one has really been interested in having them!

If both AV and TA keep improving (especially the former!), things may well change. If they really are going after LAN and AA, they cannot be so naïve as to think that membership of an alliance (and therefore the possibility of accruing both award AND ELITE-QUALIFYING miles) wouldn’t play a huge role in passengers’ choices as to which airline to fly. This applies especially to frequent business flyers, whose business tends to be very dear to airlines.

My guess is that AV/TA’s best alliance match would be ST, which is losing CM/P5 (together with CO) at the end of this month (ooops… in 2 days in fact!!!). OW is not an option of course. A* is not to be excluded, but it seems more likely that rival CM will join in, which will make it more difficult for AV/TA to want to go the same way…

That's a good question and I wish I had the source but unfortunately I have read a dozen online articles about this topic and can't remember where I read it, but they believe they can maintain separate agreements with airlines in different alliances, and they are not looking to join an alliance as of now because they have the flexibility to work with any airline. The merger of these two airlines will include agreements with airlines in all 3 alliances (IB, MX, UA, AC, and DL).

It really seems like they are going after AA and LA with this merger. IF BOG is a USA hub and there are 5-6 dailies of BOG-LIM-BOG??? Wow!

When a Colombian friend of mine was thinking of joining AV's FF progam I told him that DL would be a better fit because DL has a lot more earning possibilities than AV.

Personally I love the fact that AV is a partner of both DL and MX because it allows me more flight options. I will have to do some more reseach on which program will give me more miles when I head to Colombia in 2010.

When a Colombian friend of mine was thinking of joining AV's FF progam I told him that DL would be a better fit because DL has a lot more earning possibilities than AV.



I think that would depend where your friend lives. If he lives in COL, I think AV would be a better choice so as to accumulate miles with partners like Exito, etc.

And as far as AV's punctuality, they've improved. In 2005 I swore I would never fly them again. After 12 segments on AV this year, all have been on time or early.

The FFP leaves a lot of room for improvement but I like the bene's I get as a lowly AV Gold (22K miles) such as priority seating (except exit row as they don't think my Spanish is good enough) but row 7 on the A319/320 is great, as is lounge access both in COL and abroad. I always use the lounge in MIA and the Sumaq lounge in LIM... they give me a pass no matter what class I am in.

So skyteamelite, I don't know when your last flight was but things are a lot different now.

Adam, My friend lives in the US and he decided on joining DL instead of AV.
He raves about the in-flight product of AV. For this reason, I will be flying them next year.

I’ve been living in Colombia since February this year. Just before moving here, I had already spent the previous 2 years living in South America.

This year, I’ve flown at least 8 round-trips A MONTH within Colombia (domestic flights). Out of these, 5 on average were on AV. As for international flights, I have flown AV 3 times this year (once to Ecuador and twice to the US).

True, the 2 medium/long-haul round-trips to the US were on time. So, if I were living in the US and sporadically flew AV to come to South America, I would probably be pleased with them.

But the domestic flights record has just been appalling. Always late, no announcements made to justify or explain delay, a couple of cancellations, overbooking, etc.

True, as an elite passenger at least I always get to wait in their business lounge. But whenever I can, I choose P5 (100% owned and managed by CM) for domestic flights. Their service is impeccable, I accrue CO/CM OP miles flying them and their punctuality records are unheard of:
http://www.aerorepublica.com/noticia.php3?nt=314 (in Spanish).

They even opened a VIP lounge in the BOG domestic flights terminal, and all OnePass elite (even Silver Elite) members have access to it:
http://www.aerorepublica.com/noticia.php3?nt=308

I have only had to fly AV to Europe once (I fly AF whenever possible). Flight on time, very nice staff, clean new plane with more than decent IFE, but unfortunately inedible food :(

So, nothing against AV, I do acknowledge they have come a very long way over the past 5 years. I just really hope they keep up the good work, as they still have a very, very long way to go… and I do wish them all the very best, as I would love to see the new AV/TA/2K/O6/VIPSA group do better than LAN in the Americas!

I’ve been living in Colombia since February this year. Just before moving here, I had already spent the previous 2 years living in South America.

I'm jealous! :D



But the domestic flights record has just been appalling. Always late, no announcements made to justify or explain delay, a couple of cancellations, overbooking, etc.

I have been at the airport where they canceled my flight and moved me to the next one, canceled that one too, and moved me to the next one, all to save money and consolidate passengers.

But whenever I can, I choose P5 (100% owned and managed by CM) for domestic flights. Their service is impeccable, I accrue CO/CM OP miles flying them

I flew P5 this year and was very impressed. The first rows of the E190 had very good leg room and the crew was very friendly. And of course they were on time. I struggle with trying to make up my mind to move to CO/CM/P5 or stay with AA/AV. One factor in staying with AV is that I can fly from the US and connect in COL for a few days en route to LIM and there is hardly an additional cost. CM's website prices this itinerary with the middle leg COL-LIM at full Y. How is your upgrade rate on CM?

I was disgusted at the cost of trying to use my AV miles for a trip LIM-CTG-LIM. Now that LIM is considered zone 1, it would have cost 30,000 miles for 2 people plus an additional $358 in taxes and fees. It took me a long time to earn 30,000, so forget it!

I struggle with trying to make up my mind to move to CO/CM/P5 or stay with AA/AV. One factor in staying with AV is that I can fly from the US and connect in COL for a few days en route to LIM and there is hardly an additional cost. CM's website prices this itinerary with the middle leg COL-LIM at full Y.

I can understand that... If I were in your position, I would probably prefer AV (or AA/AV combo) too. A couple of days in CTG or SMR en route to somewhere else never hurt ;)



How is your upgrade rate on CM?


I don't know if I've been very lucky or they're particularly good, but it has been 100% so far, since I have been OP Elite (and I'm Gold, not even Plat)!!! I have never flown CM on their longest routes to be fair. However, on BOG-PTY-BOG, and from PTY to UIO, GYE, HAV, CCS (can't recall any other right now) I have always been upgraded!

What I love about CM is that, as long as there are empty seats in their Clase Ejecutiva cabin, they'll upgrade OP Elite passengers in Y. For me, the upgrade has always been confirmed automatically by their booking system - as I logged on to check in online, I could see I'd been opped-up already. However, on most flights they also upgrade people after boarding, just before doors close... One CM GROUND staff comes onboard, calls the lucky Y passenger(s) to the front door, and assigns them their new seat. I've never looked into this, but it might be their policy with OP Silver Elite :confused:



I was disgusted at the cost of trying to use my AV miles for a trip LIM-CTG-LIM. Now that LIM is considered zone 1, it would have cost 30,000 miles for 2 people plus an additional $358 in taxes and fees. It took me a long time to earn 30,000, so forget it!

I agree, it's ridiculous... I think I've only used my AV miles 3 times, very close to the travel date, when the normal ticket price was ridiculously high, but I still managed to find some award availability (possibly thanks to Elite status?)

I've never looked into this, but it might be their policy with OP Silver Elite :confused:



Yes, OP Silvers are in the running for upgrades, too. First PLT, then GLD, then Silvers. When I was CO PLT I got 100% upgrades on Copa, too. I've even had some empty J seats next to me, so I guess both Silvers have a good shot on CM, and also there are not too many Elites in Latin America.

And this is why I struggle... do I switch to CO/CM and have excellent chances at upgrades, but on a 737 and with connections? Or do I fly direct with AA and have a good chance at seat 17 on a 763? I am waiting to see CO's new charts when the join *A to see how it will look.

But at the same time I really think AV/TA alliance will begin to upgrade their Elites, too, just like TA does already. And if they do, I will most likely move most of my flying to them.

Skyteamelite and AdamSouthFL,

You both seem to have a lot of info about South American airlines. Have any of you flown EQ (TAME)? Are they good? I know they share their FFP with TA.

Thank you for any info you may provide.

OJ

Do you think that this merger will affect DL or UA? UA is a TA partner while DL is with AV. Maybe they both can remain partners in the new program? It seems to work well for AS which has agreements with both AA and DL.

Now TA and US have applied for codeshares:http://www.airlineinfo.com/ostdocket2009/ost090261.html

I'm just a layman, but if I were Copa, wouldn't I want to join Star Alliance fast so that I could benefit from all those *A flyers that would want to earn EQM on my airline? AV/TA are positioning themselves well by aligning with carriers across multiple alliances. By the time CM is ready to join, if they do, who will care?

Now TA and US have applied for codeshares:http://www.airlineinfo.com/ostdocket2009/ost090261.html

I'm just a layman, but if I were Copa, wouldn't I want to join Star Alliance fast so that I could benefit from all those *A flyers that would want to earn EQM on my airline? AV/TA are positioning themselves well by aligning with carriers across multiple alliances. By the time CM is ready to join, if they do, who will care?

Isn't Copa joining *A the same day as CO? I think the oficial start date of CO in *A is in a few days-- 10/27/09.

I am glad US wants codeshares with TA because now I will not have to join another FFP to use TA. I was thinking about signing up to UA but now I won't have to.

Changing topic.. Anything on TAME?

I am surprised that anyone likes the TA FFP. While earning miles is easy with bonuses, I find that trying to get upgrades is quite futile. The fare class that one needs to be eligible for a possible upgrade are not much less than booking business. Last week the roundtrip fare difference between the lowest eligible fare class and business was $79.

Isn't Copa joining *A the same day as CO? I think the oficial start date of CO in *A is in a few days-- 10/27/09.


CM is leaving ST at the same time as CO (with their last scheduled flight today). However, they have not yet decided whether they will join *A or not.

Source: http://www.copaair.com/sites/cc/en/noticias/Pages/Copa-Airlines-finalizara-la-alianza-con-SkyTeam.aspx

IMHO, it wouldn't be very smart of them not to join *A. They would lose the chance of being part of the largest global alliance together with their partner CO. And if TA starts codesharing with US, then there might be a chance that AV/TA (soon to be AV/TA/O6/2K/VIPSA) joins *A. And at that point, I really, really doubt that both CM and AV/TA/etc. could co-exist in the same alliance.




Changing topic.. Anything on TAME?

I flew TAME on a weekly basis for 2 years (2006-2008). The acronym TAME means Transporte Aereo Militar Ecuatoriano - it is mostly owned by the Ecuadorian Armed Forced. They used to have a very old fleet (many 727) but they have now, at last, renewed it completely (they fly mostly brand new E190 and a couple of A319).

They are pretty efficient, on time (Ecuadorian weather allowing, especially for flights to Lago Agrio and Coca, in the Amazon region), and their on-board service is pretty good: comfy leather seats and snack with beverages on all of their flights, even when many of them last only 23-35 minutes!

They only have scheduled flights within Ecuador (excellent country coverage) plus a UIO-ESM-CLO flight. The good thing about the latter is that, being considered a "cross-border flight" (vuelo transfronterizo) as opposed to a regular international flight, passengers do not have to pay any exit tax to leave Ecuador, or Colombia if flying CLO-ESM-UIO. In contrast, they would have to pay exit tax if flying direct UIO-CLO or CLO-UIO.

Apart from scheduled services, TAME flies charters to CTG, ADZ and PTY (twice weekly on Thurs. and Sundays). Seats are sold only within packages including stays at Decameron all-inclusive resorts. TAME also has a weekly charter flight to HAV and operates other charters accoring to tour operators' needs (a common one is EZE).

In 2008, they started using the TA FFP, Distancia; one can accrue and redeem both award and status miles. They have also signed an agreement for a codeshare on the UIO-LIM-UIO flight operated by TA; however this has not been implemented yet.

Thanks Skyteamelite for the complete info on TAME. Sounds like EQ could be a great way to combine Colombia and Ecuador into one single trip! :D

Great info on TAME-thanks.

A big change from the early nineties when they often substituted one of their camouflaged troop carriers for the scheduled passenger jet to Lago Agrio. You had to board through the rear roll-on/roll-off ramp and always wondered if they expected you to parachute out!

Great info on TAME-thanks.

A big change from the early nineties when they often substituted one of their camouflaged troop carriers for the scheduled passenger jet to Lago Agrio. You had to board through the rear roll-on/roll-off ramp and always wondered if they expected you to parachute out!

I would parachute out in a heartbeat if there were maga bonus miles included! :D

I am surprised that anyone likes the TA FFP. While earning miles is easy with bonuses, I find that trying to get upgrades is quite futile. The fare class that one needs to be eligible for a possible upgrade are not much less than booking business. Last week the roundtrip fare difference between the lowest eligible fare class and business was $79.

You bring up a good point. And now that AV is offering their elites confirmed upgrades with the purchase of a SuperFlexi ticket (like CO does with Y and B fares), I bet this is here to stay post-merger. In other words, upgrades will be based on higher fare tickets.

Interesting comments from the CEOs of TA and AV in the following article

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/10/27/334038/consolidation-reaches-latin-america.html


Kriete* says TACA will continue pursuing Star Alliance membership, a process begun last year. Villegas+ adds Star "is the right thing" for TACA but Avianca at least for now plans to remain independent.

* TACA CEO Roberto Kriete
+ Avianca CEO Fabio Villegas

It would definitely be nice to see TACA (and COPA) in Star as soon as possible! Avianca would be a nice bonus too but I can see things getting crowded even with TACA and COPA. Still hopeful though, especially since it seems to work with multiple airlines in other regions.

What a change it would be for Star in Central/South America--from worst to first!

What a change it would be for Star in Central/South America--from worst to first!

Even if they only get CM in (which I really think they should and hope they will) their Central and South America coverage will be excellent, as TAM is joining *A too!