Finnair Plus - Tight connection - what is plan B if you miss the 2340 HEL-BKK?

Hi all, Finnair newbie here. I am looking to book a colleague from Brussels, so he can join a group of us who are routing Hel-Bkk-Syd (we're coming ex-MAN). Some great fares on this route with AY at the moment.

The Bru-Hel evening flight gives him a pretty tight connection, only 50 minutes or so to make the BKK which is a it worrying.

It's all on one PNR so Finnair would be obliged to sort him out - but my question is - what can/would they actually do if he misses the BKK? I don't see any other plan B flight options at that late hour, and we can't run the risk of him taking a big delay to the next day.

Does anyone have any experience of missing this flight, and how Finnair resolved it? Thanks in advance

Hi MrSoft,

I don't have personal experience of this route - but if it was me I'd be doing everything I could to help out AY.

There are a couple of things to consider here if your colleague MUST be in Sydney at roughly the same time as yourselves. 1) Brussels itself isn't a hub, so AY's possibilities to recover there are limited (and more so early evening since most connecting flights out aren't daily). 2) There isn't much AY can do to recover at that time of day at HEL either

What sort of OW status does your colleague have? Given you're travelling on cheap tickets - is that cheap Y or cheap J?

I'm guessing that AY818 is the turnaround of AY817, so on the day of departure I'd be keeping uptodate on the departure time of that from HEL. If there was any suggestion of a major delay, I'd be at the airport as early as possible - and if I had OW status I'd be politely suggesting alternatives, if I didn't have status and I was travelling on a super cheap ticket and AY were telling me "tough", I'd quietly be cursing who'd ever booked the tickets!

If it's not a Saturday, I'd start with suggesting rebooking on BA399/009 since BA9 is the aircraft you'll all likely end up on anyway. Alternatively there are other connections available - depending on the day of the week - but none are OW and most involve multiple carriers. Again, if you're in cheap Y I expect that BA might be fully booked.

If it's not a major delay, I'd expect AY to hold-back the HEL-BKK flight anyway given it is within the minimum connection time and all on the one ticket - and it would probably be cheaper to do that than compensate you under EU regs.

Really, though, if it is SOOO important that he be there, I'd be looking at flying him out on an earlier flight - possibly via HKG.

BD

50 minutes is more than enough time, especially if your friend is connecting from AY to AY. There's no screening from Schengen to non-Schengen gates and police control to non-Schengen sector is on the same level as Schengen sector.

Depending on the weekday, there's also 1755 AY plane from BRU to HEL.

Thanks guys for responses. In the end, my friend decided to come to MAN independently and and start out with the rest of us. We are in J and the BA options though logical are well outside budget.

Looking forward to a first ever trip on an MD-11.

If MAN misses the connection and BRU doesn't, how we shall laugh at the irony.

Looking forward to a first ever trip on an MD-11.

MD-11 will be the best part of your trip. ;)

MD-11 will be the best part of your trip. ;)

I will let you know how it stacks up against a thin Embraer tube from Manchester, BA Upper Deck Bkk-Syd, an Air Pacific 747 to Fiji, and an inter-island ATR. Seriously the MD-11 in Finnair colours is a joy to behold. Well, from the outside at least.

If it's not a major delay, I'd expect AY to hold-back the HEL-BKK flight anyway given it is within the minimum connection time and all on the one ticket - and it would probably be cheaper to do that than compensate you under EU regs.

Most likely the BKK plane would wait if the delay is, say, less than an hour.

But compensation under EU regs? Dream on!

This is all a bit irrelevant speculation now since you changed the plans already, but if your friend would've missed his connection in HEL because the inbound from BRU was delayed I think what would've happened would be the following:

- Free overnight at some airport hotel in HEL (not sure if AY puts people up to the Hilton - that's the only one where you can walk to, others need a shuttle bus)
- Some food vouchers
- New flights to SYD the next morning on OW metal, most likely through LHR on AY/BA/QF or FRA on AY/QF.

Under normal circumstances 50 minutes is plenty of time, the airport is not busy at all at that late hour and the connection is very straightforward. And they probably would've held the BKK plane for a small delay.

But compensation under EU regs? Dream on!

Interesting ffay005, are you saying that AY is not liable under EU regs for flights originating in BRU?

BD

Interesting ffay005, are you saying that AY is not liable under EU regs for flights originating in BRU?

BD

Sure they are, but they don't compensate. They simply refuse to pay the set EU compensations of 250/400/600 euros and sadly, no-one takes them to court because the amounts are so small. (There's nothing like a small claims court in Finland.)

I had an issue with them when they cancelled a flight because they were short of planes. They offered me a reroute I did not accept and returned the money. But they never paid the EU compensation, whereupon I made a complaint to Kuluttajariitalautakunta (Consumer Disputes Board). The board reviewed the matter carefully, asking for consultation from the Civil Aviation Autohirities, among others, and decided that Finnair should pay. Well, Finnair simply refused. They had another similar case with another passenger on a Delhi flight under review too, and Finnair refused to pay in that case too. :(

So I have reason to believe that AY (probably like many other airlines, too) simply ignore the EU compensation rules. Since no-on takes them to court anyway, why pay up...

Sure they are, but they don't compensate. They simply refuse to pay the set EU compensations of 250/400/600 euros and sadly, no-one takes them to court because the amounts are so small. (There's nothing like a small claims court in Finland.)

I had an issue with them when they cancelled a flight because they were short of planes. They offered me a reroute I did not accept and returned the money. But they never paid the EU compensation, whereupon I made a complaint to Kuluttajariitalautakunta (Consumer Disputes Board). The board reviewed the matter carefully, asking for consultation from the Civil Aviation Autohirities, among others, and decided that Finnair should pay. Well, Finnair simply refused. They had another similar case with another passenger on a Delhi flight under review too, and Finnair refused to pay in that case too. :(

So I have reason to believe that AY (probably like many other airlines, too) simply ignore the EU compensation rules. Since no-on takes them to court anyway, why pay up...

The way I read the regs (and this may be flawed since I'm not EU-based these days) is that the complaint doesn't need to be made in the carriers home country (in this case Finland). In the OP's case, (caveat: should the need have arisen) it could/should be brought in Belgium.

If AY are systematically ignoring their obligations, then they should realise that there are EU jurisdictions out there which do allow for issues such as this to be taken through small-claims ... there have been some interesting threads on the BA Board about taking that carrier through such UK Courts.

BD

Apologies for the late response.
I've flown on the same connecting flights. We were late taking off from the UK and they held the onward flight BUT despite all the promises from the ground crew and sitting on the ground in order for the luggage to be loaded, guess what? Arrived in BKK without any luggage for myself, nor any of the UK passengers.:mad: Extremely annoying and although they delivered the luggage the next day it disrupted my travel plans unbelievably as I originally intended to fly straight on to Cambodia. Received compensation to purchase emergency clothes (sorry, can't remember how much THB), but nothing for a hotel and change of flight etc etc. I could go on.
Suffice to say I haven't bothered with Finnair since.:td:

Apologies for the late response.
I've flown on the same connecting flights. We were late taking off from the UK and they held the onward flight BUT despite all the promises from the ground crew and sitting on the ground in order for the luggage to be loaded, guess what? Arrived in BKK without any luggage for myself, nor any of the UK passengers.:mad: Extremely annoying and although they delivered the luggage the next day it disrupted my travel plans unbelievably as I originally intended to fly straight on to Cambodia. Received compensation to purchase emergency clothes (sorry, can't remember how much THB), but nothing for a hotel and change of flight etc etc. I could go on.
Suffice to say I haven't bothered with Finnair since.:td:

So you did not appreciate AY actually delaying the BKK departure to get you onboard? Unfortunate that your luggage did not make it but that was to be expected. wasn't it?

And not a single airline is going to compensate you additional hotel and flight costs because of missed luggage, AFAIK. They are only obligated to reunite you with your belongings, but not to pay for travel costs caused by your own decision to change schedules.

I have to agree with Mosburger on this one. AY had no idea what you were doing when you got to BKK. As you presumably had decided to make you onward plans to Cambodia as part of a separate booking, their contractual liability ends with getting you to BKK. BA, SQ, CX and any other airline you care to mention would have treated you no differently on this one.

To take an example from my law school days, if I crash my car into yours then I've been stupid and clearly have to cover the cost of damaging your car. Now if you were just off to the supermarket then there is nothing else to compensate you for, but if you were on your way to catch a flight to SYD in F on SQ or BA, and the ticket was nonrefundable and nonchangeable, then you would have lost a lot more than just the car damage. But no court in the UK (or anywhere in Europe) is going to force me (or my insurer) to compensate you for that. There is a limit to what an airline can foresee. Had you put the Cambodia flights in the same booking then you would have had a much stronger case. But of course that costs more money because you would probably have to get a travel agent involved, or the airline.

To be honest, in the same situation as you I would have been trying to get AY to route your bags to Cambodia. To take an extreme example of this, I once flew BRU-LHR on BD and then connected next day to UA LHR-IAD-LGA, on a separate ticket. My bags (inexplicably) never made it off the ground at BRU, so BD very kindly arranged for them to be routed straight from BRU to JFK on LH, and they were at my hotel on arrival in New York!

More generally, this kind of thing is what a decent travel insurance policy is there for.

Hey you lot. The guy asked for comments and I gave them. Suddenly everything is my fault.

Mosburger states that the non arrival of my luggage was to be expected. [U]What absolute rubbish.
Finnair would not forward my luggage to Cambodia. I did not choose to change my flight but had no option as the flight was late getting into BKK. Don't assume. Same applies to you House.

Whoa there one moment, JB1350 - we're getting this story in installments!!

Was your original final destination Cambodia - who was the final leg into Cambodia with and how was this trip (end-to-end) ticketed?

If the ticket was MAN-HEL-BKK-Cambodia on one ticket then it was never AY's responsibility to deliver your baggage to Cambodia but whoever was flying you on the BKK-Cambodia leg ... that is how interlining agreements work, whoever flies the last leg has responsibility to ensure that the bags reach their final destination.

If BKK-Cambodia was on seperate tickets, this now becomes the realm of interlining agreements. Some airlines will interline with others on separate tickets even outside of alliances whereas others won't.

Simply, if AY gave you tags only as far as BKK (and I'm starting to suspect this to be the case - excuse the pun!!) then that is where their liability stops because that was the end of your contract with them.

If, because of the way you've set up your trip, you then have to wait in BKK for your bags to join you (and this can happen in the most usual of circumstances) then liability falls back on you and you need to mitigate via insurance.

BD

Hey you lot. The guy asked for comments and I gave them. Suddenly everything is my fault.

Mosburger states that the non arrival of my luggage was to be expected. [U]What absolute rubbish.
Finnair would not forward my luggage to Cambodia. I did not choose to change my flight but had no option as the flight was late getting into BKK. Don't assume. Same applies to you House.

My main assumption was that you had booked a separate ticket to take you from BKK to Cambodia. On a single booking, Finnair would have been forced to get your luggage to Cambodia and you could have insisted on this, or even claimed back reasonable expenses linked to the loss of luggage and the delay later.

My earlier post was not intended as an attack on you. I am not blaming you for anything. I just wanted to point out that if you expect any other airline to react differently to Finnair in the same situation, then you are going to be sorely disappointed. BA, for one, would treat you no differently.

There is a more general point here. Increasingly people (and I include myself here) are booking complex itineraries as a series of separate tickets, or flying parts of our journeys on low cost airlines that do not allow inclusion in a larger itinerary. This is usually a combination of saving money and the technical limitations of online booking systems.

In these situations, each airline is only responsible for their bit of the journey, and yet many people (including a number of people I know) expect the airlines involved to pick up the pieces when the plans fall apart in some way. They are usually not prepared to do this anymore, which is why having good travel insurance is an absolute necessity if you are threading bookings together (and frankly, even if you are not - the liability limits airlines have for lost luggage are extremely low).