Asia - Help with plans...Thailand and Cambodia

HOPING TO GET SOME ADVICE ABOUT MY UPCOMING TRIP...

We are 4 adults (2 couples) arriving in BKK Sunday morning, Jan. 24 and out from BKK on Fri. night (very late) Feb. 5. I have been reading and researching to come up with a plan. So far we think we will stay the first 4 nights in Bangkok, then fly to Chiang Mai for another 4 nights. I want to try to hit both Sunday markets. That would mean flying on Mon. Feb. 1 from BKK to Siem Reap in Cambodia. I assume this will take the better part of the day. If I leave 2 full days for SR would it be too tight to fly from SR to PP on Thursday, Feb. 4 and then fly PP back to BKK on Fri., Feb. 5th for a light flight back to the US? I would like to spend more than 1 day in PP but I don't want to give up any time in the other places. Is it best to just skip PP altogether and spend the extra days in SR or is 4 nights too much?

Hope someone has some thoughts/ideas. Also, would love to get any hotel recommendations. Thinking about using SPG points. I do enjoy a 5* but my pocketbook doesn't.

Thanks,
LSK

I've either lived in or been to all these places, and I wouldn't structure this itinerary as you described, for the following reasons:
1) If you are coming from somewhere other than Asia, you're going to be tired that first day and it will take a little while to get into town and get settled--not sure if planning on hitting the Sunday (Chatuchak) Market on the 24th is realistic.
2) I would be in Thailand that last day/night before your flight out on Feb 5. While flying in from PP that last day for onward intl flight that night is usually not a problem, there aren't tons of flights, that's a busy time of year, and if something goes really wrong and you can't get alternate flight out that day, you could be screwed. For SE Asia, bad planning. Avoid the potential stress.
3) I wouldn't build this trip routing around attending weekend markets in BKK and Chiang Mai--they just ain't that great, IMHO. Forcing your trip around this is also not great planning.
I suggest the following:
Jan 24--arrive BKK, don't overplan 1st day, stay BKK that night
Jan 25--morning BKK additional sightseeing, fly PP late afternoon, PP overnight
Jan 26--PP (main sights can be covered 1 day), PP overnight
Jan 27--fly to SR in morning, SR afternoon, SR overnight
Jan 28, 29--full days SR, SR overnights
Jan 30--fly to BKK, BKK overnight
Jan 31, Feb 1--full days BKK and overnights (market?)
Feb 2--fly early am to Chiang Mai, most of day in CM, CM overnight
Feb 3, 4--full days CM area and overnights
Feb 5--fly BKK. Flights CNX-BKK are plentiful, esp on Thai Airways, so less risky to recover from irregular operations and connect to intl' flight. Leave yourself a cushion of 4-5 hours between arrival in BKK and takeoff intl flight--you can always kill that having dinner and getting a massage in airport.

If souvenir shopping is a big goal, usually Chiang Mai is better and has best prices, so I usually prefer to put it first on an itinerary and use BKK to "bat cleanup." You can rearrange the BKK and CNX part of my suggestion above, but it means you'd be in CNX on weekend not BKK. I'd tend to do Cambodia first, when you're fresher and not weighed down with shopping (not that much to buy in Cambodia).

not that much to buy in Cambodia

I would disagree with that - but granted, it does depend on what one is looking to buy. And different strokes and all that. But IMO there's plenty for most people to buy in either Phnom Penh or Siem Reap (not so elsewhere in Cambodia though).

I also think there's no problem in flying from PP or SR straight to BKK and connecting through. I lived in PP for over seven years, usually flew straight through BKK without planning for a long layover, and I never had a mis-connect.

The other point that occurs to me: I'm just not crazy about Chaing Mai. I would consider going to Luang Prabang instead.

Just my two riel.

Michael

I would disagree with that - but granted, it does depend on what one is looking to buy. And different strokes and all that. But IMO there's plenty for most people to buy in either Phnom Penh or Siem Reap (not so elsewhere in Cambodia though).

I also think there's no problem in flying from PP or SR straight to BKK and connecting through. I lived in PP for over seven years, usually flew straight through BKK without planning for a long layover, and I never had a mis-connect.

The other point that occurs to me: I'm just not crazy about Chaing Mai. I would consider going to Luang Prabang instead.

Just my two riel.

Michael

After 40 years' experience in SE Asia, I've found Cambodia is less productive shopping-wise than most of the surrounding countries, and particularly for traditional crafts, furniture or modern design/industrial design items, which tend to be the focus of most foreign shoppers. Perhaps in the future this will change. For now, one hopefully goes to Cambodia to focus on other things, like culture, history, and the people.

Chiang Mai gets mixed reviews but the real attraction of the city is not the night market/schlockier tourist stuff, but about a day's worth of good sights in the immediate city and then the rest of time spent in outlying areas. It's a good base from which to do interesting daytrips, especially if you aren't afraid to rent a car and self-drive (if too leery, hire car w/driver). Chiang Mai is more historical and arguably more important than Bangkok in that respect, but as one of the traditional craftsman areas of the country, has a lot to offer the shopper as well. I personally enjoy the Northern Thai culture rather than the central and southern Thai, but it's horses for courses.

Luang Prabang is worthwhile but--unless there is a direct REP-LPQ flight not traversing via Vientiane--it means having to waste time hubbing through BKK again. As for OP's itinerary, I still think front-loading Cambodia is the way to go.

Hotel accomidations for spg in Bkk are relatively easy to use. Most prefer near the water. Cambodia also has excellent hotels, often very reasonable. Shopping in Thailand is a dream, Cambodia mainly for country crafts. Chaing Mai, is beautiful for the scenery, Luang Prabang is in Laos. You can also get visas on arrival in Cambodia and Laos. I have flown Asia Air, reasonable if travelling light, gret schedules. Dress light, you are in high humidity, and hot climate. The heat can be tiring.

I've found Cambodia is less productive shopping-wise than most of the surrounding countries, and particularly for traditional crafts, furniture or modern design/industrial design items, which tend to be the focus of most foreign shoppers.

As I said, it depends what you want to buy. For modern design/industrial design, Thailand is clearly the best bet in the region. There is great furniture to be had in Cambodia, but you need a lot of time and shipping it out of the country is not easy - so I agree that Thailand and Vietnam are better for that as well.

But, say, silk? I'll take the top traditional Cambodian stuff over Thai or Vietnamese silk any day. (The trick of course, is finding the good stuff, since so much of what is sold in PP and SR markets is cheap Thai product...)

Michael

Luang Prabang is worthwhile but--unless there is a direct REP-LPQ flight not traversing via Vientiane--it means having to waste time hubbing through BKK again.

Luang Prabang was on my original plan but as jiejie notes, too much travel time for my short stay. I decided to exclude PP also and stay longer in Chiang Mai (4 nights) and Siem Reap (4 nights).

Any thoughts about what is not to be missed? Of course, Angkor Wat and the surrounding temples but any pearls of wisdom from those who've been there and done that?

I have never found pp worth the trip there, just there to transit, therefore, not sure why anyone would really want to see Cambodia, perhaps the Irrawady dolphins in Krache, but good luck finding them. Siam Reap, a must see.

After 40 years' experience in SE Asia, I've found Cambodia is less productive shopping-wise than most of the surrounding countries, and particularly for traditional crafts, furniture or modern design/industrial design items, which tend to be the focus of most foreign shoppers. Perhaps in the future this will change. For now, one hopefully goes to Cambodia to focus on other things, like culture, history, and the people.

Chiang Mai gets mixed reviews but the real attraction of the city is not the night market/schlockier tourist stuff, but about a day's worth of good sights in the immediate city and then the rest of time spent in outlying areas. It's a good base from which to do interesting daytrips, especially if you aren't afraid to rent a car and self-drive (if too leery, hire car w/driver). Chiang Mai is more historical and arguably more important than Bangkok in that respect, but as one of the traditional craftsman areas of the country, has a lot to offer the shopper as well. I personally enjoy the Northern Thai culture rather than the central and southern Thai, but it's horses for courses.

Luang Prabang is worthwhile but--unless there is a direct REP-LPQ flight not traversing via Vientiane--it means having to waste time hubbing through BKK again. As for OP's itinerary, I still think front-loading Cambodia is the way to go.

I live and own a car near Chiang Rai and driving in Northern Thailand is a breeze... except at night. The roads are great but flocks of drunken motorcyclists are a menace.
Drive yourself is a great way to see those out of the way places in the mountains and the shopping can be interesting up there.
The mom and pop car hire places will fix you up for about 40USD a day. Couple of years back I hired a minibus and driver for 50.

Chiang Mai gets mixed reviews but the real attraction of the city is not the night market/schlockier tourist stuff, but about a day's worth of good sights in the immediate city and then the rest of time spent in outlying areas. It's a good base from which to do interesting daytrips, especially if you aren't afraid to rent a car and self-drive (if too leery, hire car w/driver). Chiang Mai is more historical and arguably more important than Bangkok in that respect, but as one of the traditional craftsman areas of the country, has a lot to offer the shopper as well. I personally enjoy the Northern Thai culture rather than the central and southern Thai, but it's horses for courses.

I've been surprised by the varying opinions about Chiang Mai. It's "love it" or "hate it". I get it about being in the immediate city. Although I am intersted in shopping I do not enjoy the tourist junk shops. As a base for day trips, what specific trips in outlying areas are worthtwhile? Wat Phra That Doi Suthep? I think I will be in Chiang Mai for 4 nights (almost 4 full days) Is this too much?

You may find these threads - Advice for visitors to Chiang Mai (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thailand/487966-advice-visitors-chiang-mai-thailand.html) and Thailand Family Trip Report (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thailand/944742-thailand-family-trip-report-mar-apr-09-chiang-mai-chiang-rai-khao-lak-bangkok.html) - helpful. Name any place or any thing and there are people who will tell you it's great and there are those who will tell you it's crap. I happen to be one of those who likes Chiang Mai, both the city itself and its environs, and think it is well worth 4+ days visit.

Doi Suthep is a must, but if the mountain mists are too heavy there won't be much of a view. Doi Inthanon is Thailand's tallest mountain and probably can involve a complete day, but the waterfalls and cooler temperatures are worth it. Many people do the elephant camp/bamboo rafting thing. I've done the elephant thing already and now prefer just rafting on the Mae Rim and having a relaxed picnic somewhere along the rafting route. Hill tribe tours make me uncomfortable so I give them a pass. Last month I visited Phrae (about 4 hours away from CM) and enjoyed the weird geological formations at Pae Muang Phi (http://www.thaichimes.com/haunted-forest-phae-muang-phi-thailand-national-park/).

Apart from the tourist "junk" shops (your term, not mine:)), there are many artisan factories outside of the city where you can get celadon, lacquer ware, wood carvings and furniture, fabrics, jewelry, etc., at quite reasonable prices. Many of the lesser known wats around Chiang Mai will have a few souvenir stalls set with all sorts of crafted items at "for Thai" prices.

Any thoughts on visiting area floating villages on Tonle Sap in late January? (Water too low?) I have read that Kompong Khleang or Kompong Phluk are better choices than Chong Khneas.

Any thoughts on visiting area floating villages on Tonle Sap in late January? (Water too low?) I have read that Kompong Khleang or Kompong Phluk are better choices than Chong Khneas.

Water probably will be too low, so floating villages may not be floating anymore. Skip Chong Khneas at any time. Suggest that with your brief period of time in Siem Reap, it will be better spent at the temples not these villages. But you can wait until you get to REP, then see what strikes your fancy and what conditions are. No need to plan this sort of itinerary local details in advance.

Suggest that with your brief period of time in Siem Reap, it will be better spent at the temples not these villages.

4 nights in SR. I see many trips posted with 2 1/2 so I thought 4 was pretty good for seeing some of the temples even further afield as well as a visit to a "floating" village.