Airlines of India - “Fight Club” at 30,000 Feet: Air India Must Be a Joke

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/business/india-business/Air-India-pilots-crew-slug-it-out-at-30000-ft/articleshow/5085243.cms

sounds too good to be true... well not really :D

This thread is useless without pics :D

Am sure there is some passenger or other that has taken pictures and is waiting for a good price to share them with the media ;-)

This all goes back to the level of prefessionalism inherent in the aviation sector in India. Actually, this is reasonably scary. An unmanned flightdeck? A melee on the flightdeck? On a commercial flight? Or any. That is simply unacceptable. This isn't amateur hour, we are talking about people's lives here.

I can actually imagine something like this to happen.

Most pilots in India believe themselves to be reincarnations of the almighty. The pilots are some of the dirtiest/perviest people in India. They have a 3-5lakh per month job which they think entitles them to first dibs at the female colleagues.

Overpaid and overinflated egos. Most pilots got an Air India job (especially the co-pilots who are usually sons of rich people/ex pilots) due to family connections, money changing hands etc etc

I hope that whoever was in the wrong gets the full treatment from the authorities but having read the article, it is already biased on the side of the pilots. They have a bigger and better lobby compared to the cabin crew.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/business/india-business/Air-India-pilots-crew-slug-it-out-at-30000-ft/articleshow/5085243.cms

This is just intolerable. The pilots should all be fired and prosecuted for endangering the lives of all those on board.

http://in.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idINIndia-42925020091005

Air India says mid-air scuffle no threat to safety
Mon Oct 5, 2009 5:39pm IST

...?!?...
"At no stage was safety compromised. It was a clear case of indiscipline," Bhargava said.
...?!?...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/04/india-air-rage-pilot-crew

It just keeps getting worse.

There was an excellent op ed piece by Vir Sanghvi in yesterday's paper. (Either the TOI or the HT. Can't remember which since I read both, but prob HT IIRC).

Discussed AI thru the glory years under JRD, and then the mess that it is today all caused (atleast according to Sanghvi) by Morarji Desai. (Former Indian PM, better known for something else;) )

In part, "Panic gripped Air India flight IC884 early today when a mid-air fight allegedly broke out between the two pilots and cabin crew members – bewildering passengers who had just been told they were flying over Pakistan. To the relief of the 106 passengers, the international flight landed safely in the Indian capital.

Air India has grounded the pilots and crew involved and launched an inquiry."

It does appear as if the pilots sexually harassed a female flight attendant, and then attempted to blame the cabin crew for the fracas. Certainly it would not be the first time blame was placed on those of with the least power (both with respect to gender and in status.) The result of the incident handling and the inquiry will reveal much, I suspect. Hopefully, whatever the truth actually is.

Flying Air India over Pakistan as crew come to blows had to be a frightening moment for unenlightened passengers - and an upsetting one once they were enlightened.

Air India always has been and always will be a 3rd rate also ran airline. Now faced with real competition from US airlines(thats why a former PM was searched on a CO flight because he knew that AI was not even an option),AI will be the next Olympic. Lots of bellyaching and macho chest thumping,but nothing canl ever change the culture of the airline. Not a total slam,just stating a fact.

Sounds like a classic case of damage control to me. How could air safety not be compromised in such a situation?

http://in.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idINIndia-42925020091005

Air India says mid-air scuffle no threat to safety
Mon Oct 5, 2009 5:39pm IST

...?!?...
"At no stage was safety compromised. It was a clear case of indiscipline," Bhargava said.
...?!?...

This all goes back to the level of prefessionalism inherent in the aviation sector in India. Actually, this is reasonably scary. An unmanned flightdeck? A melee on the flightdeck? On a commercial flight? Or any. That is simply unacceptable. This isn't amateur hour, we are talking about people's lives here.
+1



d3vski - Are you sure that your partner's job isn't biasing your opinion on the subject... ;)

I can actually imagine something like this to happen.

Most pilots in India believe themselves to be reincarnations of the almighty. The pilots are some of the dirtiest/perviest people in India. They have a 3-5lakh per month job which they think entitles them to first dibs at the female colleagues.

Overpaid and overinflated egos. Most pilots got an Air India job (especially the co-pilots who are usually sons of rich people/ex pilots) due to family connections, money changing hands etc etc

I hope that whoever was in the wrong gets the full treatment from the authorities but having read the article, it is already biased on the side of the pilots. They have a bigger and better lobby compared to the cabin crew.


I think this is true.

isn't this thread on the same subject:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/airlines-india/1001994-fight-club-30-000-ft.html

Air India always has been and always will be a 3rd rate also ran airline. Now faced with real competition from US airlines(thats why a former PM was searched on a CO flight because he knew that AI was not even an option),AI will be the next Olympic. Lots of bellyaching and macho chest thumping,but nothing canl ever change the culture of the airline.Nit a total slam,just stating a fact.

Did a few FA's not get caught without their clothes while servicing the flight crew in the cockpit. This was Air France a year or two back. I can google and provide links, and Air France did a investigation and sacked the crew and the FAs.

Did a few FA's not get caught without their clothes while servicing the flight crew in the cockpit. This was Air France a year or two back. I can google and provide links, and Air France did a investigation and sacked the crew and the FAs.

I think the FAs were stripping (and getting fondled) and it was AOM, they have since gone...uh, bust.

+1



d3vski - Are you sure that your partner's job isn't biasing your opinion on the subject... ;)

ive heard first hand stories of how weird and eccentric Indian pilots are as well as being downright pervs! One of them asked me in London when i picked my other half up of where the nearest spearmint rhino to Heathrow was!

The newly qualified first officers (sons of middle to upper class who paid for their training) are the worst, they think they are bollywood stars of the air.

The pilot community has been very successfull (well paid, well respected) for a long time compared to India itself throughout the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. I would say a lot of them could be disenfranchised from real life as they have been cushioned and enjoying the good lifestyle since they began their careers with Air India.

ive heard first hand stories of how weird and eccentric Indian pilots are as well as being downright pervs! One of them asked me in London when i picked my other half up of where the nearest spearmint rhino to Heathrow was!

The newly qualified first officers (sons of middle to upper class who paid for their training) are the worst, they think they are bollywood stars of the air.

If you look at the demographics, most pilots are usually parsees or anglo-indians who are some of the richest communities. They believe themselves to be beyond the law!

Well ok maybe I am a bit liberal about this but I don't think asking where the nearest "gentleman's" club is makes one a perv. I mean, so what?

As for the rest, ok maybe.

Well ok maybe I am a bit liberal about this but I don't think asking where the nearest "gentleman's" club is makes one a perv. I mean, so what?

As for the rest, ok maybe.

in a hotel lobby full of female colleagues and staff from other airlines checking in?

in a hotel lobby full of female colleagues and staff from other airlines checking in?
The pilot is of adult age, and visiting such clubs is a legal activity in the UK.

Similar to oontiveros, as another of "liberal" views, I personally wouldn't like to judge this, whether or not it is similar to my personal tastes.

fair enough, fair enough, the pilot is old enough and the laws allow it.

To me, it was just bad taste to ask me while im picking up my other half, i was just shocked that he actually asked me. The fairer sex can easily jump to the wrong conclusions overhearing a question like that.

Im totally pro-choice person, if you want to smoke, go right ahead and smoke two ciggies, one on my behalf, i will never tell anyone not do so.

I can also sort of empathise with their eccentric behaviour, its not a great life (despite what people imagine of crew), flying around the world, different hotel different night different time zones, away from family, love ones etc etc. These behaviours sort of manifest themselves.

If you look at the demographics, most pilots are usually parsees or anglo-indians who are some of the richest communities. They believe themselves to be beyond the law!Hmmm....I think not - let's not get too carried away here with generalizations - please don't bring certain communities into this.

Hmmm....I think not - let's not get too carried away here with generalizations - please don't bring certain communities into this.

my original post edited to be a more diplomatic and a better explanation of what i meant to say. I would still say that in India, they could do with much much better CRM training between CC and pilots. Some old school attitudes still persist in the pilot circles.

Sounds like the pilots are idiots.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Pilots-were-abusive-Crew-member-on-AI-mid-air-brawl-/articleshow/5092607.cms

I think the FAs were stripping (and getting fondled) and it was AOM, they have since gone...uh, bust.
I did find a cockpit ;-) video online, not sure which airline though...thinking there could be more than just one (or even a few !)

I sure hope that Air India management does not tell them "next time, take it outside".:D

just for added masala, the whole episode took place while the aircraft was over Pakistani skies, some Indian media outlets even mentioned that it was close to being declared a hijack by the cabin crew.

I did find a cockpit ;-) video online, not sure which airline though...thinking there could be more than just one (or even a few !)
Move your hands slowly away from that search engine, or the temptation to type certain "key" words will be just too much! :p ;)

I take it the in-flight entertainment was malfunctioning so in the interest of bored passengers the crew decide to engage in some live entertainment. :p

Pilot and purser suspended, copilot and FA de-rostered.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Air-India-mid-air-brawl-Pilot-flight-purser-suspended/articleshow/5094079.cms

Pilot and purser suspended, copilot and FA de-rostered.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Air-India-mid-air-brawl-Pilot-flight-purser-suspended/articleshow/5094079.cms
Seems like an appeasement strategy by AI management. Equal punishment for both groups so far.

Move your hands slowly away from that search engine, or the temptation to type certain "key" words will be just too much! :p ;)
Wondering why it hadn't happened yet ! AJLondon, do you work for Mr Hefner? HEHE

Pilot and purser suspended, copilot and FA de-rostered.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Air-India-mid-air-brawl-Pilot-flight-purser-suspended/articleshow/5094079.cms

How typical of the castrati AI management :td::td:

ive heard first hand stories of how weird and eccentric Indian pilots are as well as being downright pervs! One of them asked me in London when i picked my other half up of where the nearest spearmint rhino to Heathrow was!

The newly qualified first officers (sons of middle to upper class who paid for their training) are the worst, they think they are bollywood stars of the air.
Well, it seems the pilots weren't "pervs" and nor were they the only guilty party. According to CNN-IBN even the Nation Women's Commission report released today says there was no sexual discrimination/harassment.

Shameful when anyone tries to falsely hide behind the sexual/racial harassment defence to cover up their part in any dispute.

Well, it seems the pilots weren't "pervs" and nor were they the only guilty party. According to CNN-IBN even the Nation Women's Commission report released today says there was no sexual discrimination/harassment.

Shameful when anyone tries to falsely hide behind the sexual/racial harassment defence to cover up their part in any dispute.

Ok not to speculate even more but in India, I think there's alot of pressure (social and possibly more) to underreport or not report at all harassments towards women.

OTOH, yes I can imagine people using these laws against each other...it seems quite easy to accuse others here without proof.

Ok not to speculate even more but in India, I think there's alot of pressure (social and possibly more) to underreport or not report at all harassments towards women.

OTOH, yes I can imagine people using these laws against each other...it seems quite easy to accuse others here without proof.
Absolutely agree with both your points.

I just find this "guilty until proven innocent" attitude based on sweeping generalisations (whether based on gender or otherwise) to be most disappointing. Reminds me of the book "Disclosure" by Michael Crichton or even the movie based on it...

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/71250/LATEST%20NEWS/AI+scuffle:+Airhostess+wasn't+molested,+says+NCW.h tml

not sure if the pilot deserves full blame.