Online Travel Booking and Bidding Agencies - Free priceline bidding help - discussion

OK, so I will be the one to start the discussion thread :)

So it remains unclear whether coolwulf's service uses unethical insider information or uses legitimate but proprietary methods to determine NYOP amounts.

One thing that is clear, however, is the different approach BB and BFT take, in contrast to coolwulf's site: "Give a man a fish, he eats for a day; teach a man to fish, he eats for life." I really do think it's better to teach people how to do things on their own, and use advertising and affiliate links to underwrite the costs, rather than to sell information that cannot be obtained by any known ethical means. Just my 2 cents.

I believe in your saying about teaching a man to fish and he eats for life. But posters at BFT and BB still require a lot of support. Sure they post their winning bids. But they also ask for lots of help.

And it is impractical to "teach a man to fish" with proprietary tools. Do we need this service? Not necessarily - we have the tools to do the "fishing" on our own. We can use BB and BFT. We can enter a relatively low bid and increase our bid in increments until it is accepted. But if someone is uninformed, or doesn't want to spend the time to get informed, this is a valuable service.

Will I use it, even on FT when it is free? Maybe for a last-minute bid or for the fun of it. But I usually do my homework and already know a fairly accurate amount that will be accepted for where I am bidding.

John

but $1.95 is not much money to guarantee a winning bid. It saves time and, until proved otherwise, keeps your bid within the winning ballpark.

I used Coolwulf's services on Sunday afternoon to book a room in Geneva for Sunday night. Obviously I had no time to get turned down and then try again. And I do think that the workaround of changing computers, credit cards, etc. is much more trouble than spending $1.95.

The other area where I see this service as valuable is for cities that do not show up frequently on betterbidding.com or biddingfortravel.com.

Especially on betterbidding.com, there can be several months when a fairly major European or Asian city does not come up on "Other Countries."

And, even if you find a winning bid near the dates of your travel, there is no guarantee that this was among the lowest bids possible. I think that is Coolwulf's unique selling proposition: if he can convince us that the exact figure he provides is what Priceline will take, and not a dollar less, he provides a valuable service.

I love the service. My time is certainly worth more (in my opinion!) that $1.95. When you consider the time it takes to research and rebid, it can take some time. With this service, I have gotten what is the rockbottom price... I know that because I saw the price paid to the hotel on a bill they accidently gave me....

I know I am not wasting money... nor time.

While I might be interesting in knowing the method, I am happy with the result.

Over in the free bidding help thread, in post #318, coolwulf wrote:
"3.5 star will be the same price as 4*. PL will automatically update the request to a 4* hotel"

That statement is somewhat vague, and there are some subtleties to consider. Difficult for me to interpret because coolwulf can't or won't ID the hotels and their specific minimum bids when he gives advice. Most of us do know that PL can upgrade an accepted offer, and that it happens most often when we'd rather PL wouldn't. I've experienced this many times. The rule-of-thumb up to now has been that Priceline will assign the lowest-priced qualifying hotel to an offer, thus favoring the supplier.

So, for example, this means that if you offer $40 for a 3* hotel, hoping that you'll win the Courtyard and it happens that and the 3* Courtyard has rooms for $33 in PL's system, while the 4* Marriott has them for $39, you would be upgraded and assigned to the Marriott. However, if it was the reverse and the Courtyard had loaded rooms to PL at $39, while the Marriott had them at $33, your 3*/$40 offer would be assigned to the Courtyard, because it was the highest-priced, qualifying, hotel. That said, how PL makes an assignment when there are multiple qualifying hotels with the same asking price is unclear. They may make a quality level upgrade if available, but they may not. Coolwulf seems to imply that the upgrade is automatic and certain, which it may be in the specific case he is advising, but I would disagree that upgrades are always the rule.

I would probably agree ... it is not automatic and it usually will happen when you do not want it.... :)

For example, a few weeks ago I bid on a 2.5 star expecting the Hampton Inn... and I wanted that for the free wifi... at $35... and they "upgraded" me to the Sheraton which, of course, has no WiFi. In some ways, a downgrade for me.

I do wish Priceline had the option of saying "NO AUTOMATIC UPGRADES"... only give me the star level I requested. If I had wanted a 3 star, I would have bid it. :)

may[/I] make a quality level upgrade if available, but they may not. Coolwulf seems to imply that the upgrade is automatic and certain, which it may be in the specific case he is advising, but I would disagree that upgrades are always the rule.


I always thought an upgrade is automatic. Not sure if this is from BFT, PL website or information that was made public.

Use your example. PL upgrades a customer to the Marriott. Pl gets to keep the $7 overbid in addition to PL fees. The customer gets an upgraded hotel. PL books the highest qualifing rate but in this case the customer was upgraded and is now in the pool of 4* properties.

Although many of us might not want an upgrade (some cases) the computer is going to assume a free upgrade is always wanted.

Over in the free bidding help thread, in post #318, coolwulf wrote:
"3.5 star will be the same price as 4*. PL will automatically update the request to a 4* hotel"

That statement is somewhat vague, and there are some subtleties to consider. Difficult for me to interpret because coolwulf can't or won't ID the hotels and their specific minimum bids when he gives advice. Most of us do know that PL can upgrade an accepted offer, and that it happens most often when we'd rather PL wouldn't. I've experienced this many times. The rule-of-thumb up to now has been that Priceline will assign the lowest-priced qualifying hotel to an offer, thus favoring the supplier.

So, for example, this means that if you offer $40 for a 3* hotel, hoping that you'll win the Courtyard and it happens that and the 3* Courtyard has rooms for $33 in PL's system, while the 4* Marriott has them for $39, you would be upgraded and assigned to the Marriott. However, if it was the reverse and the Courtyard had loaded rooms to PL at $39, while the Marriott had them at $33, your 3*/$40 offer would be assigned to the Courtyard, because it was the highest-priced, qualifying, hotel. That said, how PL makes an assignment when there are multiple qualifying hotels with the same asking price is unclear. They may make a quality level upgrade if available, but they may not. Coolwulf seems to imply that the upgrade is automatic and certain, which it may be in the specific case he is advising, but I would disagree that upgrades are always the rule.

I think you are misinterpreting coolwulf's statement. I take it to mean that in the city, zone, and star level requested, 3.5* is either sold out or costs more than 4* so that particular request would be upgraded (not "updated") to a 4*. Nothing sinister that I can see.

I too wish there would be an option for "no upgrades" since higher star levels often mean no free wifi, no free parking, no free breakfast, etc.

I take it to mean that in the city, zone, and star level requested, 3.5* is either sold out or costs more than 4* so that particular request would be upgraded (not "updated") to a 4*. Nothing sinister that I can see.



I agree, and this has been my understanding of how upgrades work for quite a few years now.

I'm sure many will remember the scenario in La Quinta (Palm Springs area) a few years ago (huge thread here on FT). A mistake rate of $25 was accidentally loaded into Priceline's computer for the Resort level La Quinta Resort. However, initially, nobody could get the $25 rate because bidding at Resort level requires a minimum $55 bid. But $25 is the minimum accepted bid at the 3* level. So everyone started bidding 3 stars and were upgraded to the La Quinta resort. In that scenario, there was no doubt availability at other 3 and 4 star properties in the zone. It didn't matter, though, because Priceline's computer automatically books you into the highest category available.

I think you are misinterpreting coolwulf's statement. I take it to mean that in the city, zone, and star level requested, 3.5* is either sold out or costs more than 4* so that particular request would be upgraded (not "updated") to a 4*. Nothing sinister that I can see.

I too wish there would be an option for "no upgrades" since higher star levels often mean no free wifi, no free parking, no free breakfast, etc.

Possibly misinterpreting, yes. I did not mean to imply anything sinister, however.

Nevertheless, in your example, If 3.5* costs more than 4*, it would be the assigned hotel (assuming that it's still priced within the amount of the bid) and an upgrade would not occur. If, however, the 3.5* was priced higher than the amount of the bid, it would not be a qualifying hotel, and would therefore not be assigned.

Yes, PL keeps the amount of the overbid. But part of their business model is that they favor the supplier, and assigning the highest-priced, qualifying, hotel is one mechanism to ensure that overbids are minimized, thus satisfying the suppliers that PL is not siphoning off profit that should belong to the supplier. It is up to the suppliers, however, to ensure they load multiple room rates into PL, to keep themselves "in the running" for both "minnows" as well as "whales".

lewisc: This has been the dogma of PL bidding for a long while; I don't remember where or by whom it was first stated, but I have no evidence to the contrary.

but $1.95 is not much money to guarantee a winning bid. It saves time and, until proved otherwise, keeps your bid within the winning ballpark....

I think that is Coolwulf's unique selling proposition: if he can convince us that the exact figure he provides is what Priceline will take, and not a dollar less, he provides a valuable service.

Yes, quite so spainflyer, if coolwulf can convince us, $1.95 is a good price for the guarantee. But so far, despite my requests on the other thread, he has not convinced me; merely denigrated my emergence from the lurk-o-sphere (while welcoming other emergent lurkers who did not dare to question). He says he "guarantees" things, but will not state the nature of the guarantee. In order for a "guarantee" to be anything other than specious hyperbole, it must be backed up in some way. For example, with a refund of the price difference. Some vendors offer "double the difference" guarantees, right? But so far, coolwulf has not stated what his guarantee is. Because I don't really expect that he can or should make such an offer, I consequently take exception to his statement of a "guarantee". Just as coolwulf would have you view him as a "sort of travel agent", you can view me as a "sort of consumer advocate". :)

3.5 star will be the same price as 4*. PL will automatically upgrade the request to a 4* hotel

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post 318 in the other thread is key, not to a discussion of upgrades in general, but to showing the astounding depth of Coolwulf's penetration of PL prices. Astonishing.

Yes, quite so spainflyer, if coolwulf can convince us, $1.95 is a good price for the guarantee. But so far, despite my requests on the other thread, he has not convinced me; merely denigrated my emergence from the lurk-o-sphere (while welcoming other emergent lurkers who did not dare to question). He says he "guarantees" things, but will not state the nature of the guarantee. In order for a "guarantee" to be anything other than specious hyperbole, it must be backed up in some way. For example, with a refund of the price difference. Some vendors offer "double the difference" guarantees, right? But so far, coolwulf has not stated what his guarantee is. Because I don't really expect that he can or should make such an offer, I consequently take exception to his statement of a "guarantee". Just as coolwulf would have you view him as a "sort of travel agent", you can view me as a "sort of consumer advocate". :)

I would like to claim our "guarantee" policy here and hope you will like it.

The suggested price from us will definitely be the minimum winning bid at the time of our suggestion. However it 's possible this minimum winning bid will change through time. (Which means if you bid on priceline several hours/days later espeically when your travel time is appoaching, this minimum winning bid might change.)

If you found out the actually minimum winning bid is one dollar or more less than our suggested bidding price at the time of our suggestion and you can prove it, we'll honor you two more bidding check for free.

Nevertheless, in your example, If 3.5* costs more than 4*, it would be the assigned hotel (assuming that it's still priced within the amount of the bid) and an upgrade would not occur. If, however, the 3.5* was priced higher than the amount of the bid, it would not be a qualifying hotel, and would therefore not be assigned.

Yes, PL keeps the amount of the overbid. But part of their business model is that they favor the supplier, and assigning the highest-priced, qualifying, hotel is one mechanism to ensure that overbids are minimized, thus satisfying the suppliers that PL is not siphoning off profit that should belong to the supplier. It is up to the suppliers, however, to ensure they load multiple room rates into PL, to keep themselves "in the running" for both "minnows" as well as "whales".

I am not sure where your statements come from - do you have any source?

Also, your language is confusing - costs who more - PL or the bidder? "priced higher" by who? The hotel?

I would like to claim our "guarantee" policy here and hope you will like it.

The suggested price from us will definitely be the minimum winning bid at the time of our suggestion. However it 's possible this minimum winning bid will change through time. (Which means if you bid on priceline several hours/days later espeically when your travel time is appoaching, this minimum winning bid might change.)

If you found out the actually minimum winning bid is one dollar or more less than our suggested bidding price at the time of our suggestion and you can prove it, we'll honor you two more bidding check for free.

That's terrific, coolwulf. And I, too, am astonished by the quality of your information. I hope you can sustain your business and that many travelers will benefit from your help! Good luck.

That's terrific, coolwulf. And I, too, am astonished by the quality of your information. I hope you can sustain your business and that many travelers will benefit from your help! Good luck.

Thank you :p

I am not sure where your statements come from - do you have any source?

Also, your language is confusing - costs who more - PL or the bidder? "priced higher" by who? The hotel?

fti,

As I said to lewisc: "This has been the dogma of PL bidding for a long while; I don't remember where or by whom it was first stated...."

My sources are the public BBS's and extensive (many years) experience in PL bidding. I cannot recall exactly where or when I learned of the PL business model, and I'm certainly not offering a warranty of any kind. But the information is out there, you can search the interweb as well as I. Personally, I have no insider information or connections.

Apologies for the confusion over "costs more". I do try to write as unambiguously as possible. In that statement, I might have been clearer if I'd written:
"...If a 3.5* hotel has rooms priced higher than those of a 4* hotel, then the 3.5* hotel would be assigned..."

Priceline is a publically traded company that makes specific claims about its mode of operation and sets out rules in its terms of service. Their reports detail the proprietary nature of their business and the sanctity of their business model. It is inconceivable that Priceline will not take action if someone is infiltrating their database. They would not take action until they gather enough evidence and show that the actions are damaging their business and their reputation. Priceline's ability to make money from the bidding model is precluded on the assumption that customers will over-bid and Priceline, not the hotel, will keep the difference. In the extreme, if all customers were lost to those who claim to have infiltrated their system, it would make them less competitive. Effectively, they would turn into Hotwire since there would be no need to request a bid if the price is accessible in advance. Priceline may be watching to see what is going on and if its system has been compromised or if an entrpreneur is merely taking guesses. In either case, given Priceline's history of lawsuits and victories, both the vendor and customer involved in a bid by infiltration should be aware of the potential problem.

Hotels can list multiple rates. Many zones have multiple hotels in a given * category. Most of us define "overbidding" as bidding more then the lowest rate available in that zone, at that * level. Some of the money from "overbidding" customers goes to a (different) hotel with a higher PL rate. Some of the money goes to the lowest priced hotel hotel via a higher PL rate. Certainly some of the money from over bidders goes to PL but a lot of the $$ from overbidders goes to hotels.

...Certainly some of the money from over bidders goes to PL but a lot of the $$ from overbidders goes to hotels.
What is the point here? Priceline derives income from collecting more than they give the hotel. They try to induce higher bids at every turn - not to help the hotels. Their agreement is to match the bid to the nearest set price below the bid that meets the star and location request. Then they keep the difference. If someone infiltrates the system to make it so that they don't get this difference, they lose their major revenue stream. This does not affect the hotels.

I agree completely with B1. How far into the Priceline "vault" would one have to burrow to be in a position of knowing beforehand that a bid at the 3 1/2* level in a particular Zone would be upgraded to the 4* level? Answer: free run of the vault. Coolwulf must be working for Priceline.

What is the point here? Priceline derives income from collecting more than they give the hotel. They try to induce higher bids at every turn - not to help the hotels. Their agreement is to match the bid to the nearest set price below the bid that meets the star and location request. Then they keep the difference. If someone infiltrates the system to make it so that they don't get this difference, they lose their major revenue stream. This does not affect the hotels.

No. The major revenue PL got is not the difference you're talking about. The major revenue is the difference between the minimum bid and what PL give to hotels. Betterbidding and BFT have been there for years and a lot of people are already bidding the price very close to the minimum bids. What we did is only to tell you where the minimum bid is. The major revenue PL got is not affected. The difference between customer's actual bid and the minimum bidding price (or you can call it overbidding) is the extra money PL got out of their major revenue.

No. The major revenue PL got is not the difference you're talking about. The major revenue is the difference between the minimum bid and what PL give to hotels.


What we did is only to tell you where the minimum bid is. The major revenue PL got is not affected. The difference between customer's actual bid and the minimum bidding price (or you can call it overbidding) is the extra money PL got out of their major revenue.

Do these statements contradict each other? Can you clarify this?

I believe the statement from B1 is spot on correct. Priceline hopes that you bid higher than the minimum "offer" (the prices that hotels load into the system) so that this overbid goes right into PL's pockets in addition to its fee. The difference between the remittance from Priceline to the hotel (which covers room and tax) and what you pay to Priceline can be as much as 25% or more. Next time, check your folio on the in-room entertainment system and you may see the amount that PL remits to the hotel, compare it to your bid including taxes and fees and you might be surprised as to how much PL makes on a reservation. It sure beats the good old days when agents made 10% on a reservation.

I have always contended that Priceline functions much like a market maker does on behalf of buyers and sellers in the stock market, with the exception that PL does not own any inventory, because just like fruit, room inventory has a shelf life before it goes rotten. Priceline accepts room inventory from hotels at various price points; these are offers. Customers submit bids for this inventory, Priceline matches the bids to the offers and a successful trade is made as long as the bid is higher than the offer and collects a fee plus the overbid for making a market.

There seem to be several "new" members of FT showing up in that bidding help request thread. Is it possible that some existing members are re-registering under a different alias in order to take advantage of coolwulf's services beyond their free limit?

I was thinking just the opposite-- that there's a post on some other "deals" or travel forum pointing to the FlyerTalk thread, and that these posters really are new.

I was thinking just the opposite-- that there's a post on some other "deals" or travel forum pointing to the FlyerTalk thread, and that these posters really are new.
Look at the "Member Announcements" section of Bidding for Travel. People are complaining that coolwulf is sending private messages to members to try his services.

I agree with Tom's assessment.... "Free" will bring people out of the woodwork.... :)

I personally appreciate the service.... and have not problem with it being advertised as it was on another site.... Kinda ironic isn't it.... you post to complain about someone marketing their service... and you end out giving them even greater exposure..... :)

I was thinking just the opposite-- that there's a post on some other "deals" or travel forum pointing to the FlyerTalk thread, and that these posters really are new.

I see a lot of value in CoolWulf's service, and appreciate the offer to try it for free. So kudos for that (assuming his info source is not illegal).

Now, there's nothing wrong with advertising on another website - really, that's what is being done here on Flyertalk too - but sending unsolicited messages is spam, by definition. That's a business practice that should be changed. And unless he's including instructions for opting out and honoring those requests, he may be in violation of the can-spam law.

Look at the "Member Announcements" section of Bidding for Travel. People are complaining that coolwulf is sending private messages to members to try his services.

It has already been discussed in the other thread and a lot of users are aprreciated for trying this service by registerring Flyertalk forum.

And we're not sending private messages any more after the discussion in another thread.

It has already been discussed in the other thread and a lot of users are aprreciated for trying this service by registerring Flyertalk forum.

And we're not sending private messages any more after the discussion in another thread.

Good move! I've been under the opinion these past few weeks that your service is unique enough to build and survive on its own. Period.

To be able to eliminate my research time by paying you $1.95, while bidding through BetterBidding's affiliate link is a win for me, a financial win for both you and BetterBidding, and finally a win for the Internet community who can gain from the data I post at BetterBidding.

Priceline may be watching to see what is going on and if its system has been compromised or if an entrpreneur is merely taking guesses. In either case, given Priceline's history of lawsuits and victories, both the vendor and customer involved in a bid by infiltration should be aware of the potential problem.

I'm waiting for the Randy Petersen seal of approval before I request bidding information. Some may not have seen his message buried in the middle of the bidding thread.


I see there have been some posts regarding the source of the information and other items relative to these types of services. I'll remind everyone that services such as ExpertFlyer, KVS and even SeatGuru and SeatExpert all got their start here on FlyerTalk, so the option to allow this member to help other members (even somewhat commercially) is a long established tradition that we have granted others.

Now, there has been some conversations regarding the source of the information. I don't think it is necessary for that to become a topic unto its own and volunteer to take that on as my project which will keep some of the bank and forth to a very low minimum. I'll report back in the somewhat near future once I feel comfortable I can answer the questions previously posted. Thanks for understanding and thanks for your continued support of FlyerTalk.

.... and have not problem with it being advertised as it was on another site....

So let's say you're shopping at a specialty electronics store and a salesman from another store runs into that store to solicit business. Do you have a problem in that case?

Coolwulf has not directly answered (despite being asked repeatedly) whether the service he is providing is consistent with the Priceline Terms of Service. Just taking a quick glance through the terms, I see a couple that I would have genuine concerns around whether or not he is violating the terms:

"Accordingly, as a condition of using this Site, you agree not to use this Site or its contents or information for any commercial or non-personal purpose (direct or indirect) or for any purpose that is unlawful or prohibited by this Agreement."

"You may only use this Site to make legitimate reservations, purchases or requests to purchase the products or services offered (each, a "Request") and shall not use this Site to make any speculative, false or fraudulent Requests or any Requests in anticipation of demand."

Nobody has the first clue how this guy is getting at the minimum bid prices (and they do appear to legitimately be the lowest acceptable bid price). I like to get the best deal as much as the next guy, but there is absolutely no transpanency into this guy's methodology. Let's say he's running this operation out of Nigeria with a databank of stolen credit cards (I'm not saying he is), anybody still want to do business with the guy? My gut tells me this guy is doing something illegal or, at the very minimum highly unethical.

Let's say he's running this operation out of Nigeria with a databank of stolen credit cards.

I can guarantee you that we're definitely NOT using any databank of stolen credit cards. Our database and model of calculation are highly confidential at this moment. And we won't reveal this information unless we decide to end this service.

(p.s We're currently bringing more users to priceline. Those who were afraid of using priceline now are able to bid through them. Priceline still keeps their profit with service charge and money between minimum bid and hotel cut. This way, we're hoping to create a win-win senario. )

(p.s We're currently bring more users to priceline. Those who were afraid of using priceline now are able to bid through them. Priceline still keeps their profit with service charge and money between minimum bid and hotel cut. This way, we're hoping to create a win-win senario. )

I'm surprised someone from Priceline has not dropped by FlyerTalk to congratulate you for helping them out.

I can guarantee you that we're definitely NOT using any databank of stolen credit cards.

But can you make a similar guarantee that you're not violating Priceline's terms of service? I'm guessing you can't. Otherwise why not just say so?

But can you make a similar guarantee that you're not violating Priceline's terms of service? I'm guessing you can't. Otherwise why not just say so?

According to priceline,

"Accordingly, as a condition of using this Site, you agree not to use this Site or its contents or information for any commercial or non-personal purpose (direct or indirect) or for any purpose that is unlawful or prohibited by this Agreement."

Betterbidding.com or BFT all violate their terms of service. People are posting Priceline's contents or information for non-personal purpose and these two sites are using these information for commercial usage (solicit people to go through their affiliated link businese by providing these information.)

As an update, we're going to provide a new kind of service in the near future, it will 100% follow priceline's term of service and I can guarantee you that with this service provided, people will NOT go through betterbidding or BFT's affiliated links in the future. (Detailed info are confidential and I can't talk more about it at this moment.)

According to priceline,

"Accordingly, as a condition of using this Site, you agree not to use this Site or its contents or information for any commercial or non-personal purpose (direct or indirect) or for any purpose that is unlawful or prohibited by this Agreement."

Betterbidding.com or BFT all violate their terms of service. People are posting Priceline's contents or information for non-personal purpose and these two sites are using these information for commercial usage (solicit people to go through their affiliated link businese by providing these information.)

I disagree. I think both BFT and BB operate independently of PL's site, and their data comes from the voluntary contributions of users of the BFT/BB site. Those two sites simply instruct users on how to more effectively use PL's site, to their advantage, and always WITHIN THE TOS OF PRICELINE. In fact, both sites have received occasional criticism from others for having deleted posts from users that advocate going against PL's TOS, by using such methods as alternative credit cards and/or email addresses. Both BFT and BB are completely transparent in their operation, and exist with the tacit blessing of Priceline, since they are both supported by their users clicking on affiliate links of one kind or another.

But can you make a similar guarantee that you're not violating Priceline's terms of service? I'm guessing you can't. Otherwise why not just say so?

Instead, coolwulf accuses other sites of violating PL's TOS. As if that would justify his doing so (and I'm not saying he is, because I really don't know).

I disagree.

Instead, coolwulf accuses other sites of violating PL's TOS. As if that would justify his doing so (and I'm not saying he is, because I really don't know).

Whether you agree or not won't change the fact and the terms of service from priceline. Because we have formed this database from information we gathered just similar to what BFT did but with better and more efficient ways, make it no violation involved if followed your deduction.

And as I mentioned already, we're going to provide an upgraded new service which makes BFT totally obsolete in the near future.

Since I have already talked too much information about our service in this discussion, I 'm not going to post in this thread any more.

I can guarantee you that we're definitely NOT using any databank of stolen credit cards. Our database and model of calculation are highly confidential at this moment. And we won't reveal this information unless we decide to end this service.Without using free rebids or false credit card information, all that's left is using the information hidden in Priceline's website source code.

Since I have already talked too much information about our service in this discussion, I 'm not going to post in this thread any more. Originally posted by Coolwulf.

Coolwulf: If I were in your position I would treat FT very carefully and respectfully for breathing life into the two "Coolwulf" threads which are currently running, each of which is so important to the growth of your business. Don't you feel a bit fortunate that FT has allowed you access to this community - in contrast to your being expelled from both Biddingfortravel.com and FW?

There is no requirement that you must reply to all posts. When you get a question, the honest answer to which might disclose proprietary information, simply don't answer it. Flyer Talkers have offered several suggestions in this and the original thread which you found to be valuable and which you adopted. Why cut yourself off of this sort of information?

You have mentioned several times that your friends have made good suggestions to you. If I were you I would I would run by them the subject of the wisdom of your deciding to refuse to post any replies to this thread. What would they say?

Without using free rebids or false credit card information, all that's left is using the information hidden in Priceline's website source code.

Without trying to be confrontational, why must that be the case? Just because you or I or whomever can't think of another "model" doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

One observation and, if this has been covered, I don't remember seeing it. Has anyone actually proven that coolwulf's price is the lowest that would be accepted? Just because the price he gives out is accepted doesn't prove without question that a lower price wouldn't be accepted. Anyone test this yet?

And as I mentioned already, we're going to provide an upgraded new service which makes BFT totally obsolete in the near future.

You'll be providing a list of hotels won by zone? That's the best feature of Bidding for Travel and Better Bidding.

Without using free rebids or false credit card information, all that's left is using the information hidden in Priceline's website source code.

As was stated above, you are making huge assumptions. I am sure there are various methods, even some that coolwulf has not thought about.

Coolwulf: If I were in your position I would treat FT very carefully and respectfully for breathing life into the two "Coolwulf" threads which are currently running, each of which is so important to the growth of your business. Don't you feel a bit fortunate that FT has allowed you access to this community - in contrast to your being expelled from both Biddingfortravel.com and FW?

Honestly, I think you are lending too much weight to FT. He had a big following way before he started posting on FT and offering this service. The FW thread was many pages long when I looked and that was a while before it got pulled.

I don't remember seeing it. Has anyone actually proven that coolwulf's price is the lowest that would be accepted? Just because the price he gives out is accepted doesn't prove without question that a lower price wouldn't be accepted. Anyone test this yet?

Look back into the original thread - this and other questions arose. The most notable was the claim that using a sponsored link will lead to a higher price. When this was shown not to be the case, then the claims changed.
On a more general note. If there was an opportunity to charge a fee and give a guaranteed excellent bid, Priceline would offer it because they could charge a fee. Why would they want to let someone else derive the income from their business? The answer is that doing such things compromises their enterprise and their earnings. Therefore, if someone else is doing it they are causing two problems for Priceline: pre-empting their own right to charge for such a service (which they would see as exclusively their own) and disrupting the method of opaque bidding. While they tolerate BFT and BB because they create business, you can see that Priceline is now advertising "recent wins" but giving prices that are higher than reported on those sites.

It fascinates me that whenever the topic of Priceline comes up, there are several on FT who post in defense of them and their services. I became pretty convinced that some of you work for Priceline!! I have never done business with CW, but it does surprise me that all of the people who would probably jump at a mistake in fares (BOS/SFO RT all in $100 for example) and similar advantages berate CW for what he/she is doing and making assumptions about what it could be - pretty much all negative. If you take advantage of a mistake in airfare, hotel charges, etc. you are pretty assuredly taking advantage of the profits of the entity; but heaven forbid for some of you that Priceline should be taken advantage of. Believe me, I don't think you could for a minute.:D

[QUOTE=fti



Honestly, I think you are lending too much weight to FT. He had a big following way before he started posting on FT and offering this service. The FW thread was many pages long when I looked and that was a while before it got pulled.[/QUOTE]


Well, you may be right. FT does get a lot of hits though and the total thread views is about 17,000 for the two "Coolwulf" threads running on FT at this time. That impressed me. Maybe it shouldn't have. Did he offer 3 free requests while on FW? I didn't see his FW thread before it was pulled.

I think this is a great service, and I really couldnt care where or how coolwulf gets the lowest acceptable bid

$1.95 isnt much if the amount is in line with what Im willing to pay.

But to pay $1.95 to be given an amount that is more then I want to pay doesnt hit me the right way.

eg. I can bid for a room for 1 night at CDG it comes back as $259, Id rather use my pts in 1 of the programs I have pts in for an award stay instead. Or a 3* in HomeTown,Ohio comes in at $49 and I can book for $55 and get pts and a stay credit, so those $1.95 can add up very fast, unless 1 will go with PL no matter what

Its alot harder for a Car, since I dont have any insurance of my own and my CC covers the CDW if the lowest bid price is substanially below what I can reserve it for, it wont pay and its $1.95 per request, so econ,compact,mid, full is $8 before even bidding, Ive gotten full size cars for less then economy at times on the rental car companys sites. So I dont know how they will handle cars, I will wait and see

I can see where if a person knows Exactly what they want that this service willl be a Great benefit. I need Flex so I will stick with playing with the different codes I know of and book the old fashion way and usually it will cost me only a few bucks extra per night which usually will be evened out with the pts etc that I will earn. Its rare for me to pay near or over $100 per night anyway

Now if cool eventually sets up a BFT/BB type of site then that will change things as if I see a certain city is expensive I can request for another nearby city, but I dont want to spend $20 just trying to find a room within say 50 miles of Philly

But to pay $1.95 to be given an amount that is more then I want to pay doesnt hit me the right way...

eg. I can bid for a room for 1 night at CDG it comes back as $259, Id rather use my pts in 1 of the programs I have pts in for an award stay instead. Or a 3* in HomeTown,Ohio comes in at $49 and I can book for $55 and get pts and a stay credit, so those $1.95 can add up very fast, unless 1 will go with PL no matter what...

Now if cool eventually sets up a BFT/BB type of site then that will change things as if I see a certain city is expensive I can request for another nearby city, but I dont want to spend $20 just trying to find a room within say 50 miles of Philly

No need really for coolwulf to set up a BFT/BB type of site. I use those sites to figure out the current approximate going rate. Easy for you to do too without spending much time. Then if you see a 3* at CDG is about $300, you don't request a bid amount from coolwulf. He might get it to $259 as you say, but if the general ballpark amount you want to pay is too high, you look elsewhere.

I think this is a great service, and I really couldnt care where or how coolwulf gets the lowest acceptable bid

$1.95 isnt much if the amount is in line with what Im willing to pay.

But to pay $1.95 to be given an amount that is more then I want to pay doesnt hit me the right way.



You're paying for the time it takes to research your question. You can always go the old-fashioned way and check hotel rates in your zone first. Hotels that are sold out, or only have rack rate available, are unlikely to offer "reasonable" PL rates. Some people would rather pay $1.95 to avoid having to do any research.

It would be nice if they would automatically provide the suggested bid amount for the next lowest * level if there is nothing available at the * level you requested.

I suspect many people will save enough money (low overbidding) or enough time (not having to do research) to more then justify $1.95.

People who don't like the terms don't have to use the service.

fti & lewisc,

I pretty much said what you guys have. I dont know of anything that works for everybody. What works for me might not be beneficial to you and vice versa.

Since 100% of my travels are not Biz related, Im very Flex (BTW over 200k actual Miles this yr so far). So if I can say get a cheap stay within 45 mins of LA I'll grab it. Alot of people cant do that and want to be close to where they will need to work. So before I book a Hotel , I check MR,SPG,HH out and see if theres a rate that I can live with (worth paying for the benefits I'll get), if not then I will PL it but in a good year Im lucky if I do 3 PLs

For an upcoming trip I booked a 4 points in ONT even thou Im landing at LAX and will be spending my time in LA. But for $67 and 2x on Stay credits and the extras being a SPG Plat, its better to me then saving an extra $20 (if that much) and not getting Plat again for next yr. Not many can or will do the same

Like purchasing a tkt, I check JFK,LGA,EWR,PHL,BDL before purchasing to see where I can get the best deal, not only $$ wise but schedule wise and aircraft type as well. So in most cases the $1.95 will add up very fast for me and most likely cancel out most if not all of the extra savings, which wont be the case probably with 99% of the people out there. Thats why I didnt Bash cool , just cause something wont work for me doesnt mean its not a good thing, its just not something that will work for me.

Now do I ever see the possiblity of using cool and his services , yep , when those few times happen when Im postioning myself for a MR out of town and simply want even a 2.5* for the night by an airport and rates are more then Im willing to pay or too many pts for a free night for they arent available

On Sept. 17, I wrote (in the original thread on Free Priceline Bidding Help, post #4, which sparked some animosity):
"Wow, this thread has the potential to become very long very fast, if everyone is posting their requests, receiving replies, and posting results to it. It will become like an entire betterbidding.com in a single thread. Yikes!"

It's now been a month. That thread is up to 614 replies, and is 41 pages long. I think my prediction was correct!

The fact that the thread is so popular (19,000+ page views) is evidence of great demand for coolwulf's service. I continue to wait, along with others, to see if PL ignores it. Perhaps the proverbial "cat" is truly "away".

Perhaps there is a way to deduce the hotel's lowest rates through another source other than hacking Priceline. Is there a travel agent source for opaque room rates?

Perhaps there is a way to deduce the hotel's lowest rates through another source other than hacking Priceline. Is there a travel agent source for opaque room rates?
Apparently there is but it is a violation of Priceline's terms of service. In an unrelated note, Coolwulf has posted an interesting notice in his thread. For some reason he has decided that the algorithm he was using may be problematic for Priceline.

Apparently there is but it is a violation of Priceline's terms of service. In an unrelated note, Coolwulf has posted an interesting notice in his thread. For some reason he has decided that the algorithm he was using may be problematic for Priceline.

Perhaps the cat's back.

One thing that bothers me is coolwulf's apparent hostility towards BB & BFT. His post yesterday (#669) continues to suggest a hidden agenda.

He also wrote "we 're going to provide a better service which is 100% without any violation", which is undoubtedly a laudable goal. But he'd assured us in the first place a month ago that he did not violate PL's TOS. Then a few weeks ago he tried to assure us that he didn't violate them any worse than BFT & BB. I can understand the backpedaling to his current stance, but I also see a trend of overstatement. Similarly his "guarantee" and other comments seemed to be the overstatements typical of an amateur. Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

I just went to Coolwulf's website as I was curious to see what they've posted over there about the temporary shut down. But here's what you get...

Website Maintenance
Currently this site is under maintenance and temporaly closes.

Seems a bit hastily written given the misspelling (temporaly) and grammatical error ("closes" vs "closed").

One thing that bothers me is coolwulf's apparent hostility towards BB & BFT. His post yesterday (#669) continues to suggest a hidden agenda.



That's one way to interpret it....of course, the statements above, coupled with other posts in this thread and the original thread by folks with very few FT posts, suggest others are the ones with hidden agendas.

That's one way to interpret it....of course, the statements above, coupled with other posts in this thread and the original thread by folks with very few FT posts, suggest others are the ones with hidden agendas.

Actually, Diplomatico, that's a fair criticism, and I'll withdraw my suggestion of a hidden agenda by coolwulf. His agenda is probably just as he's openly articulated all along: he wants to have a profitable site that's better than BFT or BB, and makes them irrelevant. Just like anyone else running a for-profit website would want to do vs. their own competitors.

And I'm all in favor of a competitive marketplace, be it for travel help or automobiles. :)

No schadenfreude, please!

It would be incumbent on coolwulf to explain to FT participants the concerns about the algorithm that led to the closure. Priceline would reasonably expected to issue a cease and desist request if there is a violation of their process with a potential for a lawsuit for recovery of lost income and damages. However, if calling attention to the whole thing, and the hostility expressed by coolwulf toward those who questioned the process being used, the possibility of PL going after other sites is a concern. A "victory" over BB and BFT (rendering them "obsolete") that would result in their closure would be a very bad outcome. To be clear, I have no ownership or employment from those sites, in response to accusations that were since withdrawn.

It would be incumbent on coolwulf to explain to FT participants the concerns about the algorithm that led to the closure. Priceline would reasonably expected to issue a cease and desist request if there is a violation of their process with a potential for a lawsuit for recovery of lost income and damages. However, if calling attention to the whole thing, and the hostility expressed by coolwulf toward those who questioned the process being used, the possibility of PL going after other sites is a concern. A "victory" over BB and BFT (rendering them "obsolete") that would result in their closure would be a very bad outcome. To be clear, I have no ownership or employment from those sites, in response to accusations that were since withdrawn.

Why in the world is it "incumbent" on coolwulf to explain anything? He offered a service, now that service might be in question. Happens all the time in business. Maybe one party argues with or litigates against another party. Maybe a business goes into bankruptcy, whatever. If it is not a public-owned company, no one owes anyone an explanation. And I have no ownership, employment or affiliation with coolwulf. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with fti in the sense that the border does not necessarily pass where Priceline draws it. They may shout, and if a large and very rich organization shouts - you take cover, but CW, though I have my suspicions as well about his service, have not crossed the line yet, nor does he owe us an explanation.

I must admit that I would love to hear such explanation if he is willing to share it. But that's his own choice.

Why in the world is it "incumbent" on coolwulf to explain anything? He offered a service, now that service might be in question. Happens all the time in business.

He doesn't need to explain a thing, and that's exactly the reason I'm not using his service. I don't want my screen name, bid location, dates of stay, and winning price listed in a master thread until I know who I'm dealing with. He's been on FT about 6 weeks now and clearly doesn't want to talk about his business model. The only thing I can recall him posting about his business model was this:

I can guarantee you that we're definitely NOT using any databank of stolen credit cards. Our database and model of calculation are highly confidential at this moment. And we won't reveal this information unless we decide to end this service.

Why in the world is it "incumbent" on coolwulf to explain anything?

Agreed. Thought that was a rather strange comment myself.

[QUOTE=fti;12699067]Why in the world is it "incumbent" on coolwulf to explain anything? He offered a service, now that service might be in question. [QUOTE]

did anyone ask the Colonel Harland Sanders for the 11 herbs and spices, how about the recipe for Coke?

No need really for coolwulf to set up a BFT/BB type of site. I use those sites to figure out the current approximate going rate. Easy for you to do too without spending much time. Then if you see a 3* at CDG is about $300, you don't request a bid amount from coolwulf. He might get it to $259 as you say, but if the general ballpark amount you want to pay is too high, you look elsewhere.

His advice saved me $2 per night below what my next bid increment was going to be. As long as his numbers are accurate, I would happily pay $2 to zero in on the optimal rate the first try.

My theories on how he's doing it....

1. There is another source of opaque rates for the trade that closely mirror the priceline rates.

2. He's taking the price at which the "Based on recent data, your price has only a small chance of being accepted." disappears and adds a fixed price to it. In my Madrid example it was $5 over the lowest bid that doesn't get the warning. PL gives that info to you before you bid and it seems to be based on the median price of accepted bids.

He's taking the price at which the "Based on recent data, your price has only a small chance of being accepted." disappears and adds a fixed price to it. In my Madrid example it was $5 over the lowest bid that doesn't get the warning. PL gives that info to you before you bid and it seems to be based on the median price of accepted bids.

This seems to be the most probable explanation. This explains coolwulf's description of his method as an "algorithm" rather than a data source. I suspect it's probably a percentage rather than a fixed amount though, to help account for the wide range of prices across cities and star ratings.

This 'feature' probably won't last very long if that's what he's doing.

His advice saved me $2 per night below what my next bid increment was going to be. As long as his numbers are accurate, I would happily pay $2 to zero in on the optimal rate the first try.

My theories on how he's doing it....

1. There is another source of opaque rates for the trade that closely mirror the priceline rates.

2. He's taking the price at which the "Based on recent data, your price has only a small chance of being accepted." disappears and adds a fixed price to it. In my Madrid example it was $5 over the lowest bid that doesn't get the warning. PL gives that info to you before you bid and it seems to be based on the median price of accepted bids.

if in fact its either #1 or #2 how can PL shut them down?

I think theres alot more to it, like having an inside person who was suppose to get a cut of the fees or somehow being able to get into PLs info.

Certainly a great opportunity here for coolwulf to at least come along and deny he is using any of these methods. I suspect that won't happen, though, as he has previously posted:


Since I have already talked too much information about our service in this discussion, I 'm not going to post in this thread any more.

I just went to Coolwulf's website <snip>

Seems a bit hastily written given the misspelling (temporaly) and grammatical error ("closes" vs "closed").

From http://bestbidding.co.cc/:
Currently this site is under maintenance and temporary closed.
Things must have happened so quickly that coolwulf wasn't able to run a spellchecker or fix all the typos.

;)

if in fact its either #1 or #2 how can PL shut them down?

I think theres alot more to it, like having an inside person who was suppose to get a cut of the fees or somehow being able to get into PLs info.

I tend to agree, because there were instances where Coolwulf would reply to a bid request that the star level, zone and date was sold out on Priceline. While I'm purely speculating, that suggests to me he had much more direct access to pricing and availability.

From http://bestbidding.co.cc/:

Things must have happened so quickly that coolwulf wasn't able to run a spellchecker or fix all the typos.

;)

A spellchecker wouldn't find this:

Currently this site is under maintenance and temporary closed.

The word is spelled correctly, but the wrong word is used.

And pretty much no one on FT has a right to comment on grammar or spelling errors. Many posts on FT are pathetically filled with all kinds of typos, misspellings and incorrect grammar.

Many posts on FT are pathetically filled with all kinds of typos, misspellings and incorrect grammar.

The use of loose instead of lose on many FT posts drives me crazy. A typical post would be something like "I don't want to loose my status".

A spellchecker wouldn't find this:

Currently this site is under maintenance and temporary closed.

The word is spelled correctly, but the wrong word is used.

For the record, the term originally used was temporaly which was later changed to temporary, which as we all know should have been temporarily.


And pretty much no one on FT has a right to comment on grammar or spelling errors.

I agree with you 100% with regard to posts by private individuals on any public message board forum. But I believe misspelling and grammatical errors on websites of businesses would be considered "fair game".

Does anyone know or speculate what country CW was operating from? And could operating from a different country been all or part of the reason it took Priceline this long to shut him down?

Does anyone know or speculate what country CW was operating from?

You can find out that information here:
http://www.co.cc/whois/whois.php

And pretty much no one on FT has a right to comment on grammar or spelling errors. Many posts on FT are pathetically filled with all kinds of typos, misspellings and incorrect grammar.
FWIW, two words were used incorrectly in coolwulf's website when the site announcement was first made.

After BEAV pointed it out in post #54 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12696175-post54.html), the site announcement was updated but only one error was successfully fixed. That made me believe the site admin was following this thread. Since the other word was/is wrongly fixed, I decided to make a post about the remaining error (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12707058-post68.html) as a friendly reminder so the site admin can "finish" the job.

I doubt any site with incorrect wording will give good impressions to visitors.

As a matter of fact, another fellow FTer thanked me for the headsup about an error in their personal blog/site. Quite a while ago I stumbled upon a thread about the big fire in Australia. The said FTer was sharing what had happened to them and their families. She provided a link to the blog/site. I followed the link and read their updates. I was glad nobody was hurt in her (extended) family but I did find one error. The event date didn't seem right (could have been a typo of the numeric entry), so I posted my finding. Two posts later, she gave me a big thankyou and acknowledged that typo did fly under the radar. Thousands of viewers, yet no one had pointed it out. They fixed it right after reading my post. That made me feel good, knowing I help out fellow FTers, let it be in a small or big way. FTers help each other, don't we?

As far as posts on FT go, I know not every post on FT is written in good or perfect English. Native speakers make mistakes too. I am not an English native speaker. I know for a fact there are mistakes and errors/typos in mine. I always appreciate others' comments on my writing so I can continue to improve my English. Constructive criticism (or teasing :D) is always welcome. Sure, FT is not a writing clinic. But I take whatever I get, and learn however I can. YMMV.

I don't know if coolwulf is still reading FT. I only hope all our feedback had helped him, one way or another.

:)

Coolwulf's site is down, and his bidding help thread is closed. Now that this thread has devolved into critique of grammar and spelling, might I gently suggest that closure be the appropriate next step?

Thanks to everyone for the stimulating and sometimes amusing discussion. If and when CW resumes operating his website or offering help on FT, perhaps then a new thread will be in order.

Safe traveling to all!

You can find out that information here:
http://www.co.cc/whois/whois.php

Thank you, very enlightening.

I'm not at all tech savvy, but if a site is registered within the U.S. can it be operated outside the U.S.?

I posted a request for a 4* property in the DT Seattle -Pikes Place area from Coolwulf. He finally got back with a recommendation of $97. I went home a couple of hours later and started bidding. I was NOT willing to spend that much on a room, preferring to downgrade to a 3* or 3.5*.

But I figured, what the heck? I bid $80 for a 4* in DT Seattle -Pikes Place and was accepted.

Maybe the rate became available in the couple of hours that elapsed. Who knows?

However, with the policy of being able to rebid every 24 hours (as opposed to the old policy of 3 days), is that service such a great deal?

However, with the policy of being able to rebid every 24 hours (as opposed to the old policy of 3 days), is that service such a great deal?

To each his/her own. As some have noted in this thread, the fee is worth their time to have the exact bid they need before starting. It's not a service that I personally would use past the freebies that were offered here on FT, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have use or value to others.

I tell you, I used the service several times... and tested the rates he gave me.

He was on target to the dollar each time.... I am a fan of his business model and it certainly works for me.

It saves me from doing all the research... and I am confident I am not overpaying.

I honestly do believe that people who found different prices are probably not bidding as soon as they got the info from Coolwulf. Pricing on Priceline is so dynamic and changes by the hour.

I hope that he is able to bring the service back.... I know I touted his service and others used it... and all were pleased.

I too hope that coolwulf is able to restart his service and participation on FT.

It's certainly true that coolwulf had an agenda here, and a by-product of that agenda was to save many FlyerTalkers (and others) money when using Priceline.

It's also undeniable that TeaEarleGreyHot had an agenda here. Unfortunately, that agenda served only to deprive FTers/others of the opportunity to save money via CW's service.

It's not terribly difficult for me to see which agenda is more beneficial to the participants of these forums.

I certainly hope he is back with his service too. Used him a few times and he was just great. Got exactly what he said and without spending any time on researching.

It's also undeniable that TeaEarleGreyHot had an agenda here. Unfortunately, that agenda served only to deprive FTers/others of the opportunity to save money via CW's service.


Nah, asking legitimate questions doesn't serve to deprive anyone of savings. But stifling inquiry does serve to deprive people of valuable knowledge. Go repress someone else!

It's also undeniable that TeaEarleGreyHot had an agenda here.

Nah, asking legitimate questions doesn't serve to deprive anyone of savings.

It's a bit late for disingenuousness.

It is clear to me, and I imagine to most people following these threads, that your agenda -- your purpose in creating your FlyerTalk ID and in participating in these threads -- is to discredit coolwulf.

If coolwulf doesn't return, it is 100% certain that "TeaEarleGreyHot" will go away and never be seen again (well, at least using that identity).

I do not seek to "repress" you (whatever that means), and I don't question your equal right to participate and speak your mind. I do contend, however, that your participation has cost, and not benefited, the FT community.

It's certainly true that coolwulf had an agenda here, and a by-product of that agenda was to save many FlyerTalkers (and others) money when using Priceline.

Couldn't you also say his agenda was to put Bidding for Travel and Better Bidding out of business? Now that his site is not running, aren't we all more dependent on those two long-term sites more than ever? Suppose they had shut down along with his site? Where would you go then?


As an update, we're going to provide a new kind of service in the near future, it will 100% follow priceline's term of service and I can guarantee you that with this service provided, people will NOT go through betterbidding or BFT's affiliated links in the future.

He was on target to the dollar each time.... I am a fan of his business model and it certainly works for me.

Do you think Priceline's business model would be at risk if everyone bid the rock bottom lowest price every time? Could they sustain that and remain profitable in future years? Right now there's only a handful of buyers hitting that rock bottom price, so probably not even a blip on their radar, but suppose you got into thousands of buyers buying at rock bottom? Think they'd notice something was going on?

Couldn't you also say [coolwulf's] agenda was to put Bidding for Travel and Better Bidding out of business? Now that his site is not running, aren't we all more dependent on those two long-term sites more than ever? Suppose they had shut down along with his site? Where would you go then?

Valid theory, though it requires a pretzel-like sequence of events: (1)coolwulf succeeds in putting BFT & BB out of business, then (2)coolwulf is zapped by whatever forces have done him in today, and finally (3)no one else steps into the market void that has been created.

I'll still contend that coolwulf's service, had it persisted, would be a net benefit to FTers.

I'll still contend that coolwulf's service, had it persisted, would be a net benefit to FTers.

I clearly see a lot of new members drawn to FT because of his offering the free service, so it's not only good for him, but also good for FT and Internet Brands. There's nothing stopping him from posting an update here about when his service will be available again, or when his web site will be back on line. His last post a week ago indicated his site was only temporarily closed and indicated some concern about Priceline's terms of service. I'm quite surprised that he hasn't been back in the interim.

We decided to temporarily close our service at this moment to avoid any possible violation of priceline's ToC through our current algorithm. However as I have mentioned earlier in another thread, we 're going to provide a better service which is 100% without any violation and will make Betterbidding and Biddingfortravel obsolete in the future.

Do you think Priceline's business model would be at risk if everyone bid the rock bottom lowest price every time? Could they sustain that and remain profitable in future years? Right now there's only a handful of buyers hitting that rock bottom price, so probably not even a blip on their radar, but suppose you got into thousands of buyers buying at rock bottom? Think they'd notice something was going on?

Not at all, after all PL has a very large customer base and Id be surprised if 10% even knew about BFT or BB or any other site that would help them land the cheapest price possible.

PLs is simply accepting any rate they wont allow a bid to succeed if its below what their cost is, and dont forget they tack on their commission fee that has nothing to do with the winning amount

I could be wrong but I feel say I bid $46 for a Hotel and win it and that was PLs lowest acceptable price Then PL might not make a dime on the $46 as it all goes to the Hotel (im sure they do make at least 10%) but PL doesnt care since they will be charging me their fee anyway.

PL makes out when instead of $46 I bid say $66 and get thats a me room I could have gotten for $46. Most of that extra $20 stays in PLs pocket and a small % goes onto the Hotel. But at $40 I get a Failed bid since then PL will lose $$.

So I feel PL has a built in profit they want as a min be it from the fee or whatever, as long as they get that amount or % you will get your room or car or flight

[QUOTE=jlawrence01;12722666]I posted a request for a 4* property in the DT Seattle -Pikes Place area from Coolwulf. He finally got back with a recommendation of $97. I went home a couple of hours later and started bidding. I was NOT willing to spend that much on a room, preferring to downgrade to a 3* or 3.5*.

But I figured, what the heck? I bid $80 for a 4* in DT Seattle -Pikes Place and was accepted.

Maybe the rate became available in the couple of hours that elapsed. Who knows?

snip

In fairness to Coolwulf (he did quote $97) who would have no way to defend himself even if he were here, you have to admit that there were some mistakes in your requests. Maybe he made mistakes also. Maybe the price changed. Who knows.

I only arrived on this forum in Coolwulf's wake, and it seems like I missed that party. Hoping to book a trip to Manila/Philippines, I found this site while looking for more affordable fares from HNL - MNL (plus maybe a hotel for a few nites in Manila, but really more for airfare.) The closed 'coolwulf' thread ends with a suggestion of two alternative bid-help sites (betterbidding.com and biddingfortravel.yuku.com).

biddingfortravel.yuku.com 's "All Other International Routings" page is where I would hope to find info to get me to Manila, but it's a ghost-town, more or less - and it looks like the site in general is more about hotels, and primarily USA-domestic oriented.

betterbidding.com just confuses me - appears on some level that the purpose is to build a database of member's successful bids, not so much to respond to inquiries - and there's little to do with travel to the Philippines that I could find, either - though there are of course responses to help with bidding on Priceline/Hotwire in more general strategy-terms.

Is it worth posting there, or is there a better tree for me to be barking up to get me on that plane? Very flexible with my travel dates, but had hoped to do it around Xmas (yeah, I know...)

Mahalo,

Dave

Hoping to book a trip to Manila/Philippines, I found this site while looking for more affordable fares from HNL - MNL (plus maybe a hotel for a few nites in Manila, but really more for airfare.) The closed 'coolwulf' thread ends with a suggestion of two alternative bid-help sites (betterbidding.com and biddingfortravel.yuku.com).
<snip>

Is it worth posting there, or is there a better tree for me to be barking up to get me on that plane? Very flexible with my travel dates, but had hoped to do it around Xmas (yeah, I know...)
Welcome to FT!

If you think our fellow FTers' advice will suit you, you may consider reading more threads about other bidding services/agencies in Online Travel Booking and Bidding Agencies Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/online-travel-booking-bidding-agencies-204/).

Quite a few FTers are familiar with the other sites and had posted good tips. After reading other threads, you may consider starting your own thread seeking help.

Good luck!

Tom,

I would assume that Priceline would still be profitable if every person bid the rock bottom price and won. They have set the minimum they will accept... and I assume it is not set for a loss. In addition, they only pay the taxes on what they pay... not what I paid... so they have some margin there. In addition, their fee guarantees profit for them. So, I am not concerned that they are going out of business tomorrow.

Do you think Priceline's business model would be at risk if everyone bid the rock bottom lowest price every time? Could they sustain that and remain profitable in future years? Right now there's only a handful of buyers hitting that rock bottom price, so probably not even a blip on their radar, but suppose you got into thousands of buyers buying at rock bottom? Think they'd notice something was going on?

Couldn't you also say his agenda was to put Bidding for Travel and Better Bidding out of business? Now that his site is not running, aren't we all more dependent on those two long-term sites more than ever? Suppose they had shut down along with his site? Where would you go then?

Personally, I don't think that he was trying to put BFT and BB out of business. Actually, in order to use his service in the most beneficial way to the bidder, you needed to do your homework and look at BFT and/or BB to find the ballpark prices for each star level in the zone/city you wanted to bid in. Several people asked coolwulf for a 4* hotel in XXX zone in YYY city but then when they found out what the winning bid would be, they asked for a 3* as well. Perhaps if they did some homework at BFT or BB, they would have known more closely what a 4* hotel would have gone for (approximately of course) and asked from the outset for a 3* price.

John

Tom,

I would assume that Priceline would still be profitable if every person bid the rock bottom price and won. They have set the minimum they will accept... and I assume it is not set for a loss. In addition, they only pay the taxes on what they pay... not what I paid... so they have some margin there. In addition, their fee guarantees profit for them. So, I am not concerned that they are going out of business tomorrow.

Agreed. The idea that coolwulf would somehow put Priceline out of business with his service is ludicrous.

When you look at BB and BFT, they serve two purposes to the customer. They give an idea of the ballpark amount to bid, and give an idea of what hotel you'll get (in some cases, a pretty certain idea). Both would seem to help Priceline's business. Successful bids mean happy, repeat customers, but since the bid amounts aren't usually whittled down to an exact amount, still leave some overbid excess to pad PL's profit.

PL obviously supports (or at least accepts) these sites, or else the affiliate agreements would be terminated. The hotels, on the other hand, do not like these sites. It is their business that is damaged, as direct bookings diminish if it's known to be available on an opaque site. If you recall, when BFT first started, that site itself contained the affiliate links. The hotels complained to Priceline, and the compromise was that the links had to be relegated to a "partner" website, not on BFT itself (ditto with BB).

Coolwulf's service differs. It does not reveal the hotel, but it does purport to reveal an exact bidding amount. If accurate, that means that Priceline's excess profit from overbidding goes away. That wouldn't put PL out of business, but it would hurt the bottom line. If I were PL, I would do my best to see the service shut down, or at least, not support them in any way. Perhaps that's why CW adopted a pay-per-request business model, not an affiliate model: I doubt there's any way that PL would accept his site as an affiliate.

I have pondered the mechanism behind the info that Coolwulf provides. Some ideas, many have been discussed here:
1) Access to the reservation system, either via a computer hack or an employee on the inside with access.
2) Bidding with fake, invalid, underfunded, or stolen credit card numbers.
3) Discovery of something on the page (HTML code?) that reveals the amount.
4) Discovery of something available during the bid process that reveals the amount (e.g. suggested rebid amounts).
5) Analysis of prior results. This seems unlikely, since history shows past performance has not been an exact projector of future results.

Besides being illegal, 1 & 2 also differ from the others in that coolwulf would know not only the bid amount but also the hotel that will result. That info would also be very valuable to bidders. He could probably charge even more for his service if he could inform of not only the price but the hotel name.

So, coolwulf is either unable to provide the info, or has decided not to. My guess would be he's unable to; since he's already running a business PL must dislike, there would be no reason for him not to offer the hotel name, if he could.

I only arrived on this forum in Coolwulf's wake, and it seems like I missed that party. Hoping to book a trip to Manila/Philippines, I found this site while looking for more affordable fares from HNL - MNL (plus maybe a hotel for a few nites in Manila, but really more for airfare.) The closed 'coolwulf' thread ends with a suggestion of two alternative bid-help sites (betterbidding.com and biddingfortravel.yuku.com).

biddingfortravel.yuku.com 's "All Other International Routings" page is where I would hope to find info to get me to Manila, but it's a ghost-town, more or less - and it looks like the site in general is more about hotels, and primarily USA-domestic oriented.

betterbidding.com just confuses me - appears on some level that the purpose is to build a database of member's successful bids, not so much to respond to inquiries - and there's little to do with travel to the Philippines that I could find, either - though there are of course responses to help with bidding on Priceline/Hotwire in more general strategy-terms.

Is it worth posting there, or is there a better tree for me to be barking up to get me on that plane? Very flexible with my travel dates, but had hoped to do it around Xmas (yeah, I know...)

Mahalo,

Dave

First off, Mahalo, and welcome to FlyerTalk. :)

If it's air fare tips you're looking for, then no, BFT and BB sites don't deal a lot in that area. Remember, these are sites that deal almost exclusively with Priceline and Hotwire bidding/purchasing for hotels. IMO the primary reason there is not a lot of air discussion is because the Priceline/Hotwire air products are not near as advantageous as they were several years ago. In the early 2000's, and following 9/11, you could score some terrific air fare deals via Priceline's bid model. But, today, airlines are simply running enough of their own specials and promotions that one doesn't need to go the opaque Priceline route as there is little to no savings (there are always isolated exceptions to the rule, however). With regard to your comment about the lack of response to inquiries at BetterBidding, you will generally find good response and helpful suggestions, again, if you're dealing with US-based hotels, as that is where the bulk of their traffic is centered around. If Priceline/Hotwire's opaque air products were more of an advantage to use, then you'd see more discussion in that area.


I think you've come to the right place, FlyerTalk, if you're looking for assistance with air fares. Again, welcome.

... Some ideas, many have been discussed here:
1) Access to the reservation system, either via a computer hack or an employee on the inside with access.
2) Bidding with fake, invalid, underfunded, or stolen credit card numbers.
3) Discovery of something on the page (HTML code?) that reveals the amount.
4) Discovery of something available during the bid process that reveals the amount (e.g. suggested rebid amounts).
5) Analysis of prior results. This seems unlikely, since history shows past performance has not been an exact projector of future results.

Besides being illegal, 1 & 2 also differ from the others in that coolwulf would know not only the bid amount but also the hotel that will result. That info would also be very valuable to bidders. He could probably charge even more for his service if he could inform of not only the price but the hotel name.

So, coolwulf is either unable to provide the info, or has decided not to. My guess would be he's unable to; since he's already running a business PL must dislike, there would be no reason for him not to offer the hotel name, if he could.
Using an expired credit card will only confirm a price, not reveal the lowest. And it is a deliberate fraud. There is no information on the page that reveals the lowest bid as there is quite a delay and a response from the central server. In an apparent attempt at credibility, the site in question had a hyperlink to Priceline and a logo at the bottom of the page, but anyone could create a hyperlink with the image from another site. As for revealing the hotel, the Priceline computer system rotates successful bids among hotels that meet the price and star level threshold, so no one can tell you what hotel you will get until after the bid is made (unless the zone is limited and you can figure it yourself). Minor correction: BB has direct revenue links to Priceline and Hotwire on its pages.

You can analyze the JavaScript to figure out when Priceline triggers warning or guidance messages. That is easy enough. Go to the bid page with the zones, and view source. I'm not exactly sure of their significance, however.

Swag, I think its a sound analysis and mostly agree with it. Two more aspects I would add:
- In a request I gave him, his quite was $122. When I made a bidding for about $105 and got a counter offer for $135. The $122 being 10% off the counter offer. The manual search for the results may support this method, which, coupled with #2 (Invalid CC) puts him on zero risk on one hand, but also signals that in most cases his original offer is low enough to avoid the charge at all, to the benefit of both sides. That's also why no hotel name is usually revealed.

- Revealing the right hotel name would indicate to Priceline that 'something' is clearly wrong and they would do everything they can to stop this guy from working. Guessing the price right can be past winnings + market data + some luck (one can get to a good range of the prices with the first two, and with luck to the exact price in few cases) - but guessing the winning hotel as well is too much luck and too clear of indication, so better avoid it.

I would go with Swag's #1 option - access to the reservation system. How else would Coolwulf be able to state that an automatic upgrade would occur as mentioned in his response here:

Oct 2, 09, 1:20 am #318
coolwulf


Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 279


Quote:
Originally Posted by <snip>
Thanks for the quick reply.

Do you mind checking for a 3 and a 3.5 star hotel.

Thank you very much

Thank you for using BestBidding services. We found your best bidding price for 3 star hotel with 1 room at Niagara Falls, Ontario in zone 1 with check in date 10/02/09, check out date 10/04/09 will be $55, please bid ASAP at priceline.com!

3.5 star will be the same price as 4*. PL will automatically upgrade the request to a 4* hotel

I don't believe that using any of the various methods suggested earlier (invalid cc, past results, PL triggering etc.) could have unearthed that upgrade information. Seems to me that would have to come from inside PL.

That's the harshest of assumptions, but one thing we should keep in mind is that other than a notion that the price quotes were generally on target, we don't know if any of his relating statements were true. Was anyone upgraded when told so, or was denied a room at any price 'because no rooms are available'?

The only way for us to measure that is to compare his quotes with users feedbacks. Priceline can of course know which statements are true and which ones are not.

Pl hotels load one (or more) private rates into the GDS system. JMO but it looks like CW knew whatever code/password that's required to display those rates. Kind of like typing AAA into the promotion field to display AAA rates.

It's possible it's quicker to search for the lowest rate then also checking for the hotel name. It's also possible more then one hotel has the lowest PL rate. Promising the name of the hotel might lead to many mistakes.

PL doesn't have to accept a "bid" exactly equal to the hotel rate. Occasionally they'll accept a little less ($1-$2). Basically PL subsidizes the bid out of their margin. I suspect this was CWs point, it's possible PL is less likely to subsidize bids made through affiliate sites.

PL is allowed to, but all evidence suggests they don't, add an additional markup to the hotel's rate. The value of CWs number would be less if PL would randomly require $1-$3 more then the hotel's price in considering a bid.

I don't think any of us were surprised CWs service had a short shelf life.

I sure looked like his information was spot on. There is a lag time between the time CW posted and the customer places a bid. It's probably that occassionaly the rate posted by CW would have been booked by another PL "bidder". It's even possible the hotel changed inventory.






When you look at BB and BFT, they serve two purposes to the customer. They give an idea of the ballpark amount to bid, and give an idea of what hotel you'll get (in some cases, a pretty certain idea). Both would seem to help Priceline's business. Successful bids mean happy, repeat customers, but since the bid amounts aren't usually whittled down to an exact amount, still leave some overbid excess to pad PL's profit.

PL obviously supports (or at least accepts) these sites, or else the affiliate agreements would be terminated. The hotels, on the other hand, do not like these sites. It is their business that is damaged, as direct bookings diminish if it's known to be available on an opaque site. If you recall, when BFT first started, that site itself contained the affiliate links. The hotels complained to Priceline, and the compromise was that the links had to be relegated to a "partner" website, not on BFT itself (ditto with BB).

Coolwulf's service differs. It does not reveal the hotel, but it does purport to reveal an exact bidding amount. If accurate, that means that Priceline's excess profit from overbidding goes away. That wouldn't put PL out of business, but it would hurt the bottom line. If I were PL, I would do my best to see the service shut down, or at least, not support them in any way. Perhaps that's why CW adopted a pay-per-request business model, not an affiliate model: I doubt there's any way that PL would accept his site as an affiliate.

I have pondered the mechanism behind the info that Coolwulf provides. Some ideas, many have been discussed here:
1) Access to the reservation system, either via a computer hack or an employee on the inside with access.
2) Bidding with fake, invalid, underfunded, or stolen credit card numbers.
3) Discovery of something on the page (HTML code?) that reveals the amount.
4) Discovery of something available during the bid process that reveals the amount (e.g. suggested rebid amounts).
5) Analysis of prior results. This seems unlikely, since history shows past performance has not been an exact projector of future results.

Besides being illegal, 1 & 2 also differ from the others in that coolwulf would know not only the bid amount but also the hotel that will result. That info would also be very valuable to bidders. He could probably charge even more for his service if he could inform of not only the price but the hotel name.

So, coolwulf is either unable to provide the info, or has decided not to. My guess would be he's unable to; since he's already running a business PL must dislike, there would be no reason for him not to offer the hotel name, if he could.

Pl hotels load one (or more) private rates into the GDS system. JMO but it looks like CW knew whatever code/password that's required to display those rates. Kind of like typing AAA into the promotion field to display AAA rates.

It's possible it's quicker to search for the lowest rate then also checking for the hotel name. It's also possible more then one hotel has the lowest PL rate. Promising the name of the hotel might lead to many mistakes.

PL doesn't have to accept a "bid" exactly equal to the hotel rate. Occasionally they'll accept a little less ($1-$2). Basically PL subsidizes the bid out of their margin. I suspect this was CWs point, it's possible PL is less likely to subsidize bids made through affiliate sites.

PL is allowed to, but all evidence suggests they don't, add an additional markup to the hotel's rate. The value of CWs number would be less if PL would randomly require $1-$3 more then the hotel's price in considering a bid.




My opinions mirror yours on this subject. There were times CW was very quick with replies to bid requests. That to me suggests he was able to quickly access PL's system, locate the target bid price and post a reply. Not enough time, IMO, for him to attempt several bids on his own by various methods suggested here.

And I also agree it would have been dangerous for him to go the extra mile in naming the hotel (along with the target bid price) for fear of too many mistakes (ie: two hotels with the same price). I believe most experienced PL bidders were happy enough to find out the target bid price without the added bonus of knowing the identity of the hotel going into the bid. If knowing the identity of hotel was accessible (in additon to the bid price), CW played that smart and limited his info to the bid price.

My two other opinions to support he had direct access to pricing were the incidents where the zone, date and star level requested was sold out and the few times he predicted an upgrade was going to occur.

Again, these are only my opinions. And if wrong, I have no problem admitting to it!



I don't think any of us were surprised CWs service had a short shelf life.

I couldn't have said it any better myself ...

For what it's worth, Coolwulf did respond on one occasion to the question re whether he could supply the name of "the hotel".

Originally Posted by <snip>
Thanks for the offer Coolwulf!

Detroit
Zone 3
4*
9/25
9/26
1

Also.....
Detroit
zone3
3 1/2*
9/25
9/26
1

I'm also curious .... if you know the price, do you also know what hotel it is? Thanks again for the help!

..........

Here you are:

We found your best bidding price for 3.5 star hotel with 1 room at Detroit in zone 3 with check in date 09/25/09, check out date 09/26/09 will be $55, please bid ASAP at priceline.com!


We found your best bidding price for 4 star hotel with 1 room at Detroit in zone 3 with check in date 09/25/09, check out date 09/26/09 will be $80, please bid ASAP at priceline.com!


(No. I can't tell you exactly which hotel you will get, but maybe in the future I can tell you the chances of which hotel you might get and that's another project we're working on...)

You could easily write a script to produce a couple fake bids with expired/invalid CC's that would locate a possible accepting price. The service speed in its self doesn't really suggest that he necessarily had access to the reservation system.

When I was bidding on PL a few years ago I accidently made a mistake entering my CC (think I mixed up the CVV code or something) I got bid rejections (standard we cant accept your offer page) as I was re-bidding than when I hit the target price I got another page informing me my CC didn't go through. The page didn't state that my offer was accepted, but after I entered my correct details my offer was accepted. If the system still behaves in a similar fashion it would be quite easy to get bidding prices for hotels. Only a certain number of such bids can honestly be mistakes, and if you sent 1000 of them in a day I'm sure PL would be unhappy.

You could easily write a script to produce a couple fake bids with expired/invalid CC's that would locate a possible accepting price....

....I got bid rejections (standard we cant accept your offer page) as I was re-bidding than when I hit the target price I got another page informing me my CC didn't go through....

Seems to me that it would be easy for PL to pre-authorize a card on the bid amount before checking for a qualifying hotel, and they could do that on just the first bid of a series of re-bids, or once an hour or per day on any particular credit card number, since their system allows them to "remember" CC#s. If a card doesn't go thru, then it's blocked from future re-bids. They could also do pre-auth on a random basis, just to prevent "script" services from doing what you suggest, while still allowing the occasional typing mistake users, and to prevent a bunch of pre-auths from accumulating on a person's CC.

Or maybe that's not how CCs work. I am not any kind of expert on that.

You could easily write a script to produce a couple fake bids with expired/invalid CC's that would locate a possible accepting price. The service speed in its self doesn't really suggest that he necessarily had access to the reservation system.

When I was bidding on PL a few years ago I accidently made a mistake entering my CC (think I mixed up the CVV code or something) I got bid rejections (standard we cant accept your offer page) as I was re-bidding than when I hit the target price I got another page informing me my CC didn't go through. The page didn't state that my offer was accepted, but after I entered my correct details my offer was accepted. If the system still behaves in a similar fashion it would be quite easy to get bidding prices for hotels. Only a certain number of such bids can honestly be mistakes, and if you sent 1000 of them in a day I'm sure PL would be unhappy.

One of the reasons I hold onto my opinion that CW had direct access to pricing vs using invalid/expired CC numbers has to do with what most people refer to as the "free rebid system". For example, a bid request for a 3 star hotel may have no or very few opportunities for rebids, depending on the location and how many neighboring zones are available. In such a scenario, it would seem difficult to pinpoint a winning price when you have only one or two bidding opportunities within a 24 hr period. Most experienced PL bidders may be familiar in a few key areas they bid frequently, and in general, know what sort of pricing is commonplace. But people were hitting CW up for bid requests from all corners of the world. To be able to come up with a target bid price by taking "stabs in the dark", in an area he wasn't familiar, with possibly no or very few rebid opportunities available is a bit of a stretch as far as I'm concerned.

You could easily write a script to produce a couple fake bids with expired/invalid CC's that would locate a possible accepting price. The service speed in its self doesn't really suggest that he necessarily had access to the reservation system.

When I was bidding on PL a few years ago I accidently made a mistake entering my CC (think I mixed up the CVV code or something) I got bid rejections (standard we cant accept your offer page) as I was re-bidding than when I hit the target price I got another page informing me my CC didn't go through. The page didn't state that my offer was accepted, but after I entered my correct details my offer was accepted. If the system still behaves in a similar fashion it would be quite easy to get bidding prices for hotels. Only a certain number of such bids can honestly be mistakes, and if you sent 1000 of them in a day I'm sure PL would be unhappy.

If this was how CW did it , they would have had to charge $19.50 and not $1.95 per zone per request.

Too much time would have to be involved the way you explained it and it wouldnt be worth ther time pursuing this @ $1.95 per request

No question in my mind CW someway had a way to know PLs actual Inventory and pricing. otherwise it wouldnt be worth their time & effort by charging only $1.95.

Nor does it make any difference how in fact CW was able to get the info. To those who were able to save some $$ ^, sorry it was so short lived for You

You think he'll be back with the new and improved site he has promised?

You think he'll be back with the new and improved site he has promised?
What "improvement" could be offered? If someone can predict perfectly the minimum acceptable bid for your specified request, there is no room for improvement in Priceline bidding. The improvements would have to be to extend the predicting power - to things such as the minumum price a dealer will accept for a car, the minimum price a home seller will accept, and the number the ball will land on at the roulette table.

If this was how CW did it , they would have had to charge $19.50 and not $1.95 per zone per request.

Too much time would have to be involved the way you explained it and it wouldnt be worth ther time pursuing this @ $1.95 per request

No question in my mind CW someway had a way to know PLs actual Inventory and pricing. otherwise it wouldnt be worth their time & effort by charging only $1.95.

Nor does it make any difference how in fact CW was able to get the info. To those who were able to save some $$ ^, sorry it was so short lived for You

I'm not suggesting you would do it manually, I was just describing my experience of accidentally doing it. Writing a program to do this would be quite easy. If you were using fake credit cards, by passing rebid zones would also be rather trivial as you could always use some other fake account/information. This is of course illegal, but if you combined it with a series of proxies your chances of getting caught are quite low unless you decide to try and sell the service for $1.95 :)

Since the previous thread is locked by the mod, I have to start a new thread to release some updates about our current status.

As previous promised, a series of updated services will be available sequentially. One of the first will be a helper application for priceline bidding. Let me first explain how this program/application work:

[Algorithm of the program]

The user is required to provide detailed hotel request information, the correct bidding information (As provided usually to priceline) and the maximum bidding amount he/she would like to bid.

The program will take a look at the user's request and figure out automatically how many free rebid zones can be used. Based on the request hotel information, a starting trial bid (can be set by user or provided by our server) will be placed. Based on the return information from priceline and number of free rebid zones, the program will set an inrement amount (can also be set by user) for rebidding.

When all free rebid zone are used up, the program will wait automatically 24 hours (or amount of time set by user) to rebid again using the same algorithm until the bid is accepted by priceline.

In some occasions, priceline will return information about the amount of additive bidding to get "a good chance" of winning, this program will take a "guess" based on this information to expedite the rebidding process.

When user's bid got accepted by priceline, the program will automatically collect (and only) the information of winning bid price and winning hotel and send back to our server. Our website will provide previous winning hotel and price information to users when we got enough statistics.

The program works totally transparent to end users and there's definitely no worry of spyware or anything related.

The only information sending to our server is the winning bid price and the winning hotel name. Other information are provided for priceline's bidding purposes and they won't be sent to our server at all.


[Beta Tester Needed]

Currently this program is still in alpha status, and we decided to provide a unpublic beta version to sign-uped beta testers. And for security reasons, the first beta version has some limitation for the request, so if you fullfill the subsequent requirements, please PM me and I 'll send you the beta test version when it's ready:

1) You agree not to distribute this program to anybody else.
2) You agree not to use any invalid billing information.
3) You agree to let us collect the successful bidding information.
4) You need to visit Chicago in the next a few months and would like to request a 3.5* or 4* hotel through priceline (The first beta will only use Chicago as the test city).

You think he'll be back with the new and improved site he has promised?
Not exactly a new site, but he's back:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/online-travel-booking-bidding-agencies/1015884-free-priceline-bidding-help-continued.html#post12801905

So you won't be offering free priceline bidding information on this forum any longer? That thread seemed very popular and brought a lot of new members to FT.

So you won't be offering free priceline bidding information on this forum any longer? That thread seemed very popular and brought a lot of new members to FT.

With the development of new tools/applications, there will be no need for such a thread cause every user will be able to achive this info (at least closely) directly from using our tools and website.

And with enough statistics, our website will even be able to predict which hotel you might get in the future.

So you won't be offering free priceline bidding information on this forum any longer? That thread seemed very popular and brought a lot of new members to FT.

More like a bunch of existing members who signed up for new screen names in the interest of anonymity. But agreed, it was a popular thread.

My guess is coolwulf would prefer to make money on his service rather than continue to give it away.

More like a bunch of existing members who signed up for new screen names in the interest of anonymity. But agreed, it was a popular thread.

My guess is coolwulf would prefer to make money on his service rather than continue to give it away.

Actually what you will find out is this new application is totally free to use. (Previous service is charged / request).

The user is required to provide detailed hotel request information, the correct bidding information (As provided usually to priceline) and the maximum bidding amount he/she would like to bid.

Such as name, address, credit card number, etc?

I don't think so ...

In before the Close

Not at all, in before the Deletion of the thread :-)

Such as name, address, credit card number, etc?

I don't think so ...

These information needs to be provided to the program, hence the bidding request to priceline.

In before the Close

Not at all, in before the Deletion of the thread :-)

Why would it be? This program also will be able to download directly from our website when beta finished. Everybody is free to use this program by then.

These information needs to be provided to the program, hence the bidding request to priceline.

Where is the credit card information retained? Users computer or your server?

Where is the credit card information retained? Users computer or your server?

The only information sending to our server is the winning bid price and the winning hotel name. Other information are provided for priceline's bidding purposes and they won't be sent to our server at all.

Since this is a discussion about coolwuf's service I've moved it to this forum.

Some updates of the new program being developed. The new version will bring the feature of using additional billing information. For example, if you have another valid credit card from yourself/wife/friends and you can use it for your trip, you would like to use it in the free rebids process, the program will allow you to have this information as the input for free rebids to expedite your rebidding process to achieve the lowest bid.

Interesting to see you back coolwulf, your program sounds quite intriguing. However, this program seems like it would need mass adoption to be successful at gathering enough data to provide guidance to future bidders. Sites like betterbidding and biddingfortravel have thousands of members and all but the most popular zones in the biggest cities have no successful bids posted for most weekends.

Also, I'm not sure how many people here would be willing to beta test an application that 1) requires personal and credit card information and 2) connects and sends information to a server. Might I suggest that your program use a more transparent method of submitting data to a central site? Automatically compose an email and allow users to review before sending, or launch a browser and fill in some fields by default. But for me personally, I would be very wary of using such a program if it were not VERY clear to me exactly when information were being submitted and exactly what that information is. Without much more of a reputation, it might be difficult to convince users to sign up.

Hi - I just joined - so a newbee - be gentle please. Lots of people are talking about Coolwulf - who is he and what service he provides - is there a site or location where I can reach him.

I need a ticket rather last week Nov from YYZ to BCN - whichever is cheaper one way or round trip!. Can anyone help?

is there a site or location where I can reach him.

His web site is closed. You can PM or e-mail him by clicking on his screen name.

It's been over 24 hours since the new application was released by coolwulf. Any FTers among the first to sign up?

Interesting to see you back coolwulf, your program sounds quite intriguing. However, this program seems like it would need mass adoption to be successful at gathering enough data to provide guidance to future bidders. Sites like betterbidding and biddingfortravel have thousands of members and all but the most popular zones in the biggest cities have no successful bids posted for most weekends.

Also, I'm not sure how many people here would be willing to beta test an application that 1) requires personal and credit card information and 2) connects and sends information to a server. Might I suggest that your program use a more transparent method of submitting data to a central site? Automatically compose an email and allow users to review before sending, or launch a browser and fill in some fields by default. But for me personally, I would be very wary of using such a program if it were not VERY clear to me exactly when information were being submitted and exactly what that information is. Without much more of a reputation, it might be difficult to convince users to sign up.

As I guanranteed this program won't collect user's billing or personal information and there are several people already testing this program. As far as I heard from them, they are very happy with the results of the program. When the first public beta available probably sometime in one or two weeks, let's see how many people will be using it...

Tom,

Unfortunately I have no trips schedule to Chicago or else I would be all over being part of the beta test.

I was extremely happy with Coolwulf's other service... used it at least 8 times to success..... just hope this beta test works out.

William

It's been over 24 hours since the new application was released by coolwulf. Any FTers among the first to sign up?

Tom,

Unfortunately I have no trips schedule to Chicago or else I would be all over being part of the beta test.

I was extremely happy with Coolwulf's other service... used it at least 8 times to success..... just hope this beta test works out.

William

Don't worry. The next beta release will include more city options for testers.

coolwuff are you still providing the original service? when is your next beta release scheduled? I would be interested to help test out any sw :)

coolwuff are you still providing the original service? when is your next beta release scheduled? I would be interested to help test out any sw :)

The original service is currently terminated. A new program will be released very soon to public for priceline bidding help. Currently, we are contacting Priceline to make sure this program confirms with Priceline's ToC as mentioned in detail (see previous post).

To current testers: Priceline at this moment doesn't allow Robots to access their website, so we are working on a new version which will totally extrude the web access part out of the current version. On the other hand, the new program will need the user to install Firefox browser as the web interface. (Maybe you already have firefox installed...) , so please do not distribute any previous beta versions to the public.

The original service is currently terminated.

Did Priceline have anything to do with that?

I'm late to this discussion, but...

6) Intercepting emails en masse from Priceline to bidders with successful bids. That's not exactly rocket science.


I have pondered the mechanism behind the info that Coolwulf provides. Some ideas, many have been discussed here:
1) Access to the reservation system, either via a computer hack or an employee on the inside with access.
2) Bidding with fake, invalid, underfunded, or stolen credit card numbers.
3) Discovery of something on the page (HTML code?) that reveals the amount.
4) Discovery of something available during the bid process that reveals the amount (e.g. suggested rebid amounts).
5) Analysis of prior results. This seems unlikely, since history shows past performance has not been an exact projector of future results.

The original service is currently terminated. A new program will be released very soon to public for priceline bidding help.

Sounds good - will be trying to work out 3 months US travel soon, so that would be a godsend :-)

Hey guys,

I have been receiving increasing numbers of PMs and emails asking the status of our "Priceline Bidding Helper" program. So I decided to release the first "public" beta exclusively here at FlyerTalk forum. (We have totally abandened the previous C++ based alpha versions cause we want to totally rip the web access part out of this program. So this version is totally designed as a "helper" application and you need the latest stable version of Firefox to run it on Windows.)

You must agree our "user agreement" before using this application and currently the first beta is only provided for Chicago and Chicago suburbs area bidding. More places will be coming very soon after further testing.

As a test version, this program sets a fixed $5 step for each increased bidding. And when it sees the priceline's "raise your price by" offer, it will change the step to $2 automatically.

You can download this beta test version here:

http://bestbidding.co.cc/PLHelper.exe